8 ms·

It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency. Th

by mempko 6y ago

It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency. The issue with climate are feedback loops which cause non-linear responses. These are dangerous because they have a tendency to sneak up on you. We are being way too conservative in our climate response and the uncertainty around the future should not make us feel better. I believe Michael Mann is wrong that scary headlines prevent action. Look at Greta and the youth climate movement and XR. It exploded BECAUSE of the dread and anxiety. Yes, it's true people on the sidelines might get scared away, but you only need a small group of REALLY committed actors to make real change. Those on the sidelines will come along after the fact.

salmonfamine 6y ago
> It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency. How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. >The issue with climate are feedback loops which cause non-linear responses. These are dangerous because they have a tendency to sneak up on you. We are being way too conservative in our climate response and the uncertainty around the future should not make us feel better. It is true that feedback loops are dangerous, but what do you mean by "sneaking up" on us? There's always uncertainty in modeling and projections of any kind, but the most agreed-upon climate models and projected scenarios include feedback loops. > I believe Michael Mann is wrong that scary headlines prevent action. Look at Greta and the youth climate movement and XR. It exploded BECAUSE of the dread and anxiety. Yes, it's true people on the sidelines might get scared away, but you only need a small group of REALLY committed actors to make real change. Those on the sidelines will come along after the fact. Well, maybe. Everyone is different, so perhaps some people will be spurned to act by these sorts of headlines. A majority of people in the US agree that climate change is a problem that needs to be addressed, so hopefully we will see more and more political pressure in the future.
- matthewdgreen 6y ago
  >How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? I can't speak for the parent poster, but the US COVID response made me pretty pessimistic about our country's ability to deal with complicated near-future threats that (a) are not immediately tangible, (b) require even modest personal sacrifices (see e.g., wearing masks.) Back in the earlier phases of the pandemic it was a near-term threat with an unknown IFR and a pretty high immediate body count, not some future concern where the worst effects are decades away. I guess the good news here is that some countries were much more successful in organizing a coordinated COVID response. Unfortunately, slowing down climate change is a global effort: you can't just seal your borders to prevent it. TL;DR as a practice run for how we'll deal with the much bigger climate crisis, our global grade in this one was barely passing. Thank god we had a quick technical fix in the form of vaccination.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Likewise. I was already somewhat pessimistic, but was hopeful that there might be a cultural shift with the younger generations. Covid made me much more pessimistic about the younger generation's willingness to sacrifice for greater good (IMO, the older generations are a lost cause).
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  > How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. I read the point as that now we've seen what governments around the world are willing to do when they perceive a real emergency: Shut down entire industries, print money to subsidize everybody, and enforce exceptions for rent/debt payments for people affected. There has as yet been no willingness to take anything of the sort in response to climate change.
  - unix_fan 6y ago
    That mostly applies to the developed world. Countries like mine won’t be able to afford the necessary changes, and we’re set to keep growing.
ralusek 6y ago
If politicians, left or right, thought of climate as an emergency, they would behave _completely_ differently. Just look at the Green New Deal. If they truly thought of it as an emergency, they wouldn't pass highly controversial legislation with all sorts of policies with zero bipartisan support. Legislation taking climate change seriously would instead look like: - Carbon taxes and carbon capture incentives - Nuclear power That's not what it looks like, though.
- dantheman 6y ago
  Completely agree, the green new deal isn't about climate change. It's a jobs program.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Is it at all possible it could be both, as perhaps the phrases "green" and "new deal" clearly suggest?
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > Is it at all possible it could be both, as perhaps the phrases "green" and "new deal" clearly suggest? My thoughts exactly, and given the horrid post covid economy (specifically for younger millennials and Gen Z) and the need for a mass upgrade to the US' infrastructure this makes the most sense as it could solve both problems instead of giving trillions to bail out mega corps. Honestly, I cannot fathom the notion where people see th massive amount of homelessness in the US, but specifically in the Bay Area, and think this model was sustainable or even desirable. At least this could put many people who have been displaced from the work force into a skills training program and a trade that could alleviate some of the needless amount of Human misery that has been normalized.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Ah yes, carbon taxes and nuclear power - very uncontroversial and bipartisan

by mempko 6y ago

salmonfamine 6y ago

> It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency. How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. >The issue with climate are feedback loops which cause non-linear responses. These are dangerous because they have a tendency to sneak up on you. We are being way too conservative in our climate response and the uncertainty around the future should not make us feel better. It is true that feedback loops are dangerous, but what do you mean by "sneaking up" on us? There's always uncertainty in modeling and projections of any kind, but the most agreed-upon climate models and projected scenarios include feedback loops. > I believe Michael Mann is wrong that scary headlines prevent action. Look at Greta and the youth climate movement and XR. It exploded BECAUSE of the dread and anxiety. Yes, it's true people on the sidelines might get scared away, but you only need a small group of REALLY committed actors to make real change. Those on the sidelines will come along after the fact. Well, maybe. Everyone is different, so perhaps some people will be spurned to act by these sorts of headlines. A majority of people in the US agree that climate change is a problem that needs to be addressed, so hopefully we will see more and more political pressure in the future.

matthewdgreen 6y ago
>How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? I can't speak for the parent poster, but the US COVID response made me pretty pessimistic about our country's ability to deal with complicated near-future threats that (a) are not immediately tangible, (b) require even modest personal sacrifices (see e.g., wearing masks.) Back in the earlier phases of the pandemic it was a near-term threat with an unknown IFR and a pretty high immediate body count, not some future concern where the worst effects are decades away. I guess the good news here is that some countries were much more successful in organizing a coordinated COVID response. Unfortunately, slowing down climate change is a global effort: you can't just seal your borders to prevent it. TL;DR as a practice run for how we'll deal with the much bigger climate crisis, our global grade in this one was barely passing. Thank god we had a quick technical fix in the form of vaccination.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Likewise. I was already somewhat pessimistic, but was hopeful that there might be a cultural shift with the younger generations. Covid made me much more pessimistic about the younger generation's willingness to sacrifice for greater good (IMO, the older generations are a lost cause).
InitialLastName 6y ago
> How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. I read the point as that now we've seen what governments around the world are willing to do when they perceive a real emergency: Shut down entire industries, print money to subsidize everybody, and enforce exceptions for rent/debt payments for people affected. There has as yet been no willingness to take anything of the sort in response to climate change.
- unix_fan 6y ago
  That mostly applies to the developed world. Countries like mine won’t be able to afford the necessary changes, and we’re set to keep growing.

ralusek 6y ago

If politicians, left or right, thought of climate as an emergency, they would behave _completely_ differently. Just look at the Green New Deal. If they truly thought of it as an emergency, they wouldn't pass highly controversial legislation with all sorts of policies with zero bipartisan support. Legislation taking climate change seriously would instead look like: - Carbon taxes and carbon capture incentives - Nuclear power That's not what it looks like, though.

dantheman 6y ago
Completely agree, the green new deal isn't about climate change. It's a jobs program.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Is it at all possible it could be both, as perhaps the phrases "green" and "new deal" clearly suggest?
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Is it at all possible it could be both, as perhaps the phrases "green" and "new deal" clearly suggest? My thoughts exactly, and given the horrid post covid economy (specifically for younger millennials and Gen Z) and the need for a mass upgrade to the US' infrastructure this makes the most sense as it could solve both problems instead of giving trillions to bail out mega corps. Honestly, I cannot fathom the notion where people see th massive amount of homelessness in the US, but specifically in the Bay Area, and think this model was sustainable or even desirable. At least this could put many people who have been displaced from the work force into a skills training program and a trade that could alleviate some of the needless amount of Human misery that has been normalized.
whimsicalism 6y ago
Ah yes, carbon taxes and nuclear power - very uncontroversial and bipartisan