7 ms·

So I know it has little to do with the numbers, but I just got a Model 3 this last weekend. Originally I was quoted as 2-14 weeks for delivery, but then I was

So I know it has little to do with the numbers, but I just got a Model 3 this last weekend. Originally I was quoted as 2-14 weeks for delivery, but then I was told they had some already available I could select and receive within 2 weeks. There was one available that was exactly the same as what I wanted, so I chose it. Why I had to even choose is weird. The whole process has spoiled me. Scheduled test drive, financing done online completely (omg that used to take forever to do in person), no annoying sales guy to work with (just ordered online), delivered right to my house. The car is also fun to drive. I haven't had a new car in 20 years, and driving was just a chore. But now I look forward to driving it, even on my commute to/from work. It has been weird getting used to how EVERYTHING is different from a normal car, but again, I'm not sure I can go back.

w0m 6y ago
The process is annoying (2-15w wait) but better than haggling with sales guy for 4h in the middle of the workday. Also the cars tend to be fun to drive. I miss my stick shift, but much better carseat space.
- jermaustin1 6y ago
  Or you end up like me on Christmas Eve 2019 picking out the truck you want, sitting with the sales person for 3 hours even though I'm not haggling, and I offered to pay what they put on the sticker. I said, I want to be in and out in 30 minutes. And now, here I am April 2, 2021. The vehicle is still untitled, unregistered, and basically a paperweight sitting in my driveway, because the sales guy screwed the paperwork up so badly, that the DMV cannot make heads nor tails of it. The bank is constantly hounding me for a title, I tell them to talk to the dealership, they say to talk to the DMV, and over a year later, I've been paying $800/mo for a car and insurance I cannot even use.
  - gradys 6y ago
    Seems like you should sue?
    - sliken 6y ago
      Or maybe not dangle commission in front of a sales shark with a unrealistic 30 minutes requirement for some rather complex paperwork.
      - klipklop 6y ago
        Why blame the guy trying to make the process easy for everyone? He gave the dealership a sweetheart deal and he still got screwed.
        sliken 6y ago
        If you try to force 60 minutes of paperwork into 30 minutes corners get cut. Because that's highly unusual he ended up in some broken state where the dealer, dmv, and insurance are all in a weird state with no clear resolution. Guess blame is a strong word, but not too surprised. Sure time/hassle is worth money. Generally similar is best achieved with an email or fax. "I'm willing to buy exactly car foo with options bar for MSRP, please contact me when the paperwork is ready for sign. I won't sign if any attempted upselling happens when I arrive."
  - matt-attack 6y ago
    I’ve never heard anything like this. Sorry to hear about it. Curious though, u you obviously drove it home the night you purchased it. What changed later?
    - jermaustin1 6y ago
      I actually drove it off the lot that same day, and drove it for 17k miles during quarantine before they started enforcing registrations and inspections again. They let me drive it off after waiting for hours and all the banks closing before they could finish the paperwork. So I signed a few documents (some of which blank... a mistake I'll never make again), and drove from Texas where my family lives back to New York, where I live.
      - w0m 5y ago
        bought in texas and trying to get it fixed in NY. Ouch; I can feel the frustration.
- foepys 6y ago
  If you don't enjoy haggling, you can just pay sticker price. Tesla eliminated haggling by simply not allowing you to pay anything different than sticker price, so I don't see how this is a plus.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - vinay427 6y ago
    It's an overall benefit for consumers because manufacturers that allow haggling presumably factor it in into their sticker prices because it's such a common practice. The best hagglers are perhaps worse off with the Tesla model, at least if their time spent haggling is not valuable to them, but everyone else tends to benefit.
    - foepys 6y ago
      That's a nice assumption but I don't believe this to be true. Before the pandemic hit, VW (the make, not Porsche or Bugatti) made only a few hundred Euro profit per vehicle, with some lower class models even less than 100€. Tesla just saved themselves from building a sales network.
      - bryanlarsen 6y ago
        They made a few hundred up front, then a few thousand on the adjustment and thousands on maintenance and warranty work.
    - mcot2 6y ago
      It’s a bit more complex then that. Tesla is acting both as the dealer and manufacturer via a direct sales model. Technically in a strict dealer model the manufacturer only sets some pricing guidelines like minimum advertised pricing and suggested retail price and they are not involved with haggling. They may also offer pass through incentives to get inventory to move. The direct sales model works when the product is in demand and you are willing to build the infrastructure for interacting with customers. The original idea of the dealership model was that car manufacturers could make cars and dealers could sell, service and do the local marketing and brand awareness. A robust nationwide network of independent dealers was developed such that each dealer would know their market best and be able to market and serve those customers better than one large entity. Somewhere along the way this went sideways and car manufacturers were actually restricted from direct sales in most states since technically they would be competing against the independent dealers they also supplied. Not many other industries have really evolved this way.
- antiterra 6y ago
  There’s a somewhat quiet industry of car buying agents, often just someone working out of their house, that can take care of this for you. Usually they can save what they cost, and are often worth the saved time regardless. (If anyone reading this turns this into a successful exploitative gig-economy business model, please send a bitcoin. Thanks.)
- stephenhuey 6y ago
  Or a 30-week wait for a Model Y as recently experienced by a relative. Every month I'd ask if he'd heard about his Model Y, and the answer was mostly the same: nothing yet. As much as I have cheered Tesla, there is a tendency to over-promise. Yes, sitting in a dealership and haggling can be a pain, but if you need the car soon then Tesla may not be the right choice for you. This too shall pass...probably...
  - mcot2 6y ago
    They are primarily battery cell constrained at this point and also limited by not having factories in all geographic regions. They have nearly zero unsold inventory at all times. They will build cars for export to the EU early in the quarter for example. A 30 week delay is extreme but I’d expect 4-8 weeks depending on when the order was placed in a quarter. I’d expect this to last for at least a few more years until 4680 cell production and the Europe and Texas factories are ramped up.
jehlakj 6y ago
I got a car during the pandemic and the only difference is that I had to talk to a salesperson for a few minutes. I actually prefer to talk to a person for big purchases. You’re exaggerating this “process”.
- lftl 6y ago
  I'm glad you had a good experience, but the one car I've bought from a dealer was the typical horrible sales experience -- long negotiation, then making me wait forever, then they put the wrong price on the contract and apologize for their "mistake" when I point it out.
  - powvans 6y ago
    Yes, this. And then they put their “paperwork” fee of $600 on it and I have to argue with them about that. And then they want to push their financing on me instead of accepting my pre-arranged financing. I refuse to ever buy another vehicle the old way. The Tesla process sounds great and I’ll consider it if my old beaters die.
    - nikau 6y ago
      Just pay sticker price and you will get the Tesla experience
  - jehlakj 6y ago
    It could be that I got lucky. First time car purchase. My local dealership is actually a high volume dealership so they probably have the entire process as streamlined as possible. I was also surprised they willingly said yes when I asked for 10% off which was really good for this particular vehicle, and they immediately and moved to the next step. Car delivery was also very convenient.
InTheArena 6y ago
My wife has asked to replace the gas minivan with a Model Y (we have a model 3), and I've refused because I want the safety margin of a EV and a gasoline vehicle. That said, I really don't like driving the van, and it feels like a chore to be driving somewhere and not being able to click down twice and activate autopilot.
- Diederich 6y ago
  > I want the safety margin of a EV and a gasoline vehicle If you have a moment, can you expand on that? My first thoughts when reading 'safety margin' here are either driving range or crash safety? Thanks!
- auiya 6y ago
  >it feels like a chore to be driving somewhere Of course, it's a minivan. Buy a car that handles well and it doesn't feel like a chore anymore.
- sliken 6y ago
  What extra "safety margin"?
- mcot2 6y ago
  What do you mean by safety margin?
neogodless 6y ago
There's a few things to think about here. First, Tesla does not yet have real competition in their market niche. They can do things differently. Every car they produce will be sold at full price. There's no incentive to involve a sales staff at this time. It is interesting to hear that you scheduled a test drive though. I'm curious if / when there is meaningful competition in electric vehicle sales, if anything will change on Tesla's end (or if other players will start to adapt to this model.) Second, buying a car is, at most, one really dreadful day every three years (ideally more like five to ten.) Sales staff can get away with murder, and everyone gets over it and forgets just enough of the pain to go deal with it again in another five years. GM tried to change this with Saturn, but for various reasons, Saturn failed, and that prevented an improved sales model from catching on. (It seems like dealers find this horrible practice works in their favor, especially if everyone keeps doing it, but will it keep working if competition arises with a different model?) Third, did you trade a car in? This is very typical for most people buying new cars, as many don't want to go through the effort of selling privately. I'd like to hear more about this process. Fourth, did Tesla work with your preferred lender for financing? I'm curious how big of a network they have. For the last 20 years, I've only financed through my credit union. Anything the dealer wants to arrange is sure to be a nightmare financial institution I wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole!
- impostervt 6y ago
  I did have a trade in, a 2011 Toyota Venza with low miles. Tesla offered me ~ $7,300. Carmax offered ~$10k. Carvana offered me $11,300ish AND they came and picked up my car. As with Tesla, I'm not sure I can go back. Even if Carmax had offered me more, it would have involved them doing a car inspection while I waited in their showroom. Carvana didn't even SEE my car before they made an offer, and having them pickup my car was super easy. My "financing" was leasing through Tesla. I know, I know, not a great decision financially, but I'm not sure if I want a Tesla long term. I have kids and the Tesla is obviously smaller than my old Venza and I still worry about going on trips how it will do. But as a bonus, getting a lease meant less paperwork from a bank. I use a credit union too, but this was still easier.
- Diederich 6y ago
  Re: trade in: https://www.tesla.com/tradein https://www.tesla.com/tradein Re: financing: in 2017, I used a local credit union for financing. The process was super straightforward and only took a couple of days. "Every car they produce will be sold at full price.": If you have a moment, can you expand on that? Are you talking about the various temporary sales/deals/discounts that one sees with other automakers and their dealerships? Thanks!
api 6y ago
Any body panel or other build quality issues? I have a friend who bought a model S a few years ago and had major issues and I've heard horror stories, so I've been trying to give them time to improve on that stuff.
- impostervt 6y ago
  Haven't seen anything so far. I did notice some rattling from the console display this morning driving over bumpy roads, but that MAY have been from the junk I have stored in the center console. I do wish it wasn't just two big holes/had some organization.
  - api 6y ago
    I've heard that some people complaining about rattling just have (LOL warning) "junk in their frunk." :) I am still a little gun-shy about Tesla after my friends' awful experience, but it's been a while. The model 3 is the best somewhat affordable long-range EV in the US market in many ways.
- caeril 6y ago
  Build quality is fine on mine. The biggest issue, by far, is the steep rate of decline in battery capacity. I have a 2 year old Model 3 Performance, which started at a 310 mile range. In only two years, my maximum range, at full charge, is down to 255 miles. It's a stepwise function, also, not linear. You might wake up one day expecting to take a road trip and discover that the BMS has decided to randomly take 5kWh of cells out of the pack. In about another year, my car will be limited to local commuting only.
  - api 6y ago
    That's pretty awful. I hadn't researched that aspect of Tesla and now I really would have to. It makes their high driving ranges less impressive. I've also been researching the latest generation Leaf. I have a 2013 Leaf that is extremely reliable, has no build quality issues worth mentioning, and has only lost about 15% range in 7 years. Of course it lacks fast charge so the battery has not been stressed much, and it hasn't been kept in a really hot climate. Leafs have passively cooled batteries so I would avoid them somewhere that gets really hot for more than a small part of the year. The latest generation Leaf has less sticker range than the Tesla model 3 but if the Tesla degrades like that the two are a closer comparison. The Leaf is much more affordable. Also doesn't have self-drive but I don't trust Tesla's self-drive yet. Latest generation Leaf has some basic "cruise control assist" I think which is about all I'd trust with today's state of the art. I bought my 2013 Leaf used and see some 2019-2020 62kWh Leaf models used right now. Used Leaf has been a decent buy for a while.

w0m 6y ago

The process is annoying (2-15w wait) but better than haggling with sales guy for 4h in the middle of the workday. Also the cars tend to be fun to drive. I miss my stick shift, but much better carseat space.

jermaustin1 6y ago
Or you end up like me on Christmas Eve 2019 picking out the truck you want, sitting with the sales person for 3 hours even though I'm not haggling, and I offered to pay what they put on the sticker. I said, I want to be in and out in 30 minutes. And now, here I am April 2, 2021. The vehicle is still untitled, unregistered, and basically a paperweight sitting in my driveway, because the sales guy screwed the paperwork up so badly, that the DMV cannot make heads nor tails of it. The bank is constantly hounding me for a title, I tell them to talk to the dealership, they say to talk to the DMV, and over a year later, I've been paying $800/mo for a car and insurance I cannot even use.
- gradys 6y ago
  Seems like you should sue?
  - sliken 6y ago
    Or maybe not dangle commission in front of a sales shark with a unrealistic 30 minutes requirement for some rather complex paperwork.
    - klipklop 6y ago
      Why blame the guy trying to make the process easy for everyone? He gave the dealership a sweetheart deal and he still got screwed.
      - sliken 6y ago
        If you try to force 60 minutes of paperwork into 30 minutes corners get cut. Because that's highly unusual he ended up in some broken state where the dealer, dmv, and insurance are all in a weird state with no clear resolution. Guess blame is a strong word, but not too surprised. Sure time/hassle is worth money. Generally similar is best achieved with an email or fax. "I'm willing to buy exactly car foo with options bar for MSRP, please contact me when the paperwork is ready for sign. I won't sign if any attempted upselling happens when I arrive."
- matt-attack 6y ago
  I’ve never heard anything like this. Sorry to hear about it. Curious though, u you obviously drove it home the night you purchased it. What changed later?
  - jermaustin1 6y ago
    I actually drove it off the lot that same day, and drove it for 17k miles during quarantine before they started enforcing registrations and inspections again. They let me drive it off after waiting for hours and all the banks closing before they could finish the paperwork. So I signed a few documents (some of which blank... a mistake I'll never make again), and drove from Texas where my family lives back to New York, where I live.
    - w0m 5y ago
      bought in texas and trying to get it fixed in NY. Ouch; I can feel the frustration.
foepys 6y ago
If you don't enjoy haggling, you can just pay sticker price. Tesla eliminated haggling by simply not allowing you to pay anything different than sticker price, so I don't see how this is a plus.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- vinay427 6y ago
  It's an overall benefit for consumers because manufacturers that allow haggling presumably factor it in into their sticker prices because it's such a common practice. The best hagglers are perhaps worse off with the Tesla model, at least if their time spent haggling is not valuable to them, but everyone else tends to benefit.
  - foepys 6y ago
    That's a nice assumption but I don't believe this to be true. Before the pandemic hit, VW (the make, not Porsche or Bugatti) made only a few hundred Euro profit per vehicle, with some lower class models even less than 100€. Tesla just saved themselves from building a sales network.
    - bryanlarsen 6y ago
      They made a few hundred up front, then a few thousand on the adjustment and thousands on maintenance and warranty work.
  - mcot2 6y ago
    It’s a bit more complex then that. Tesla is acting both as the dealer and manufacturer via a direct sales model. Technically in a strict dealer model the manufacturer only sets some pricing guidelines like minimum advertised pricing and suggested retail price and they are not involved with haggling. They may also offer pass through incentives to get inventory to move. The direct sales model works when the product is in demand and you are willing to build the infrastructure for interacting with customers. The original idea of the dealership model was that car manufacturers could make cars and dealers could sell, service and do the local marketing and brand awareness. A robust nationwide network of independent dealers was developed such that each dealer would know their market best and be able to market and serve those customers better than one large entity. Somewhere along the way this went sideways and car manufacturers were actually restricted from direct sales in most states since technically they would be competing against the independent dealers they also supplied. Not many other industries have really evolved this way.
antiterra 6y ago
There’s a somewhat quiet industry of car buying agents, often just someone working out of their house, that can take care of this for you. Usually they can save what they cost, and are often worth the saved time regardless. (If anyone reading this turns this into a successful exploitative gig-economy business model, please send a bitcoin. Thanks.)
stephenhuey 6y ago
Or a 30-week wait for a Model Y as recently experienced by a relative. Every month I'd ask if he'd heard about his Model Y, and the answer was mostly the same: nothing yet. As much as I have cheered Tesla, there is a tendency to over-promise. Yes, sitting in a dealership and haggling can be a pain, but if you need the car soon then Tesla may not be the right choice for you. This too shall pass...probably...
- mcot2 6y ago
  They are primarily battery cell constrained at this point and also limited by not having factories in all geographic regions. They have nearly zero unsold inventory at all times. They will build cars for export to the EU early in the quarter for example. A 30 week delay is extreme but I’d expect 4-8 weeks depending on when the order was placed in a quarter. I’d expect this to last for at least a few more years until 4680 cell production and the Europe and Texas factories are ramped up.

jehlakj 6y ago

I got a car during the pandemic and the only difference is that I had to talk to a salesperson for a few minutes. I actually prefer to talk to a person for big purchases. You’re exaggerating this “process”.

lftl 6y ago
I'm glad you had a good experience, but the one car I've bought from a dealer was the typical horrible sales experience -- long negotiation, then making me wait forever, then they put the wrong price on the contract and apologize for their "mistake" when I point it out.
- powvans 6y ago
  Yes, this. And then they put their “paperwork” fee of $600 on it and I have to argue with them about that. And then they want to push their financing on me instead of accepting my pre-arranged financing. I refuse to ever buy another vehicle the old way. The Tesla process sounds great and I’ll consider it if my old beaters die.
  - nikau 6y ago
    Just pay sticker price and you will get the Tesla experience
- jehlakj 6y ago
  It could be that I got lucky. First time car purchase. My local dealership is actually a high volume dealership so they probably have the entire process as streamlined as possible. I was also surprised they willingly said yes when I asked for 10% off which was really good for this particular vehicle, and they immediately and moved to the next step. Car delivery was also very convenient.

InTheArena 6y ago

My wife has asked to replace the gas minivan with a Model Y (we have a model 3), and I've refused because I want the safety margin of a EV and a gasoline vehicle. That said, I really don't like driving the van, and it feels like a chore to be driving somewhere and not being able to click down twice and activate autopilot.

Diederich 6y ago
> I want the safety margin of a EV and a gasoline vehicle If you have a moment, can you expand on that? My first thoughts when reading 'safety margin' here are either driving range or crash safety? Thanks!
auiya 6y ago
>it feels like a chore to be driving somewhere Of course, it's a minivan. Buy a car that handles well and it doesn't feel like a chore anymore.
sliken 6y ago
What extra "safety margin"?
mcot2 6y ago
What do you mean by safety margin?

neogodless 6y ago

There's a few things to think about here. First, Tesla does not yet have real competition in their market niche. They can do things differently. Every car they produce will be sold at full price. There's no incentive to involve a sales staff at this time. It is interesting to hear that you scheduled a test drive though. I'm curious if / when there is meaningful competition in electric vehicle sales, if anything will change on Tesla's end (or if other players will start to adapt to this model.) Second, buying a car is, at most, one really dreadful day every three years (ideally more like five to ten.) Sales staff can get away with murder, and everyone gets over it and forgets just enough of the pain to go deal with it again in another five years. GM tried to change this with Saturn, but for various reasons, Saturn failed, and that prevented an improved sales model from catching on. (It seems like dealers find this horrible practice works in their favor, especially if everyone keeps doing it, but will it keep working if competition arises with a different model?) Third, did you trade a car in? This is very typical for most people buying new cars, as many don't want to go through the effort of selling privately. I'd like to hear more about this process. Fourth, did Tesla work with your preferred lender for financing? I'm curious how big of a network they have. For the last 20 years, I've only financed through my credit union. Anything the dealer wants to arrange is sure to be a nightmare financial institution I wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole!

impostervt 6y ago
I did have a trade in, a 2011 Toyota Venza with low miles. Tesla offered me ~ $7,300. Carmax offered ~$10k. Carvana offered me $11,300ish AND they came and picked up my car. As with Tesla, I'm not sure I can go back. Even if Carmax had offered me more, it would have involved them doing a car inspection while I waited in their showroom. Carvana didn't even SEE my car before they made an offer, and having them pickup my car was super easy. My "financing" was leasing through Tesla. I know, I know, not a great decision financially, but I'm not sure if I want a Tesla long term. I have kids and the Tesla is obviously smaller than my old Venza and I still worry about going on trips how it will do. But as a bonus, getting a lease meant less paperwork from a bank. I use a credit union too, but this was still easier.
Diederich 6y ago
Re: trade in: https://www.tesla.com/tradein https://www.tesla.com/tradein Re: financing: in 2017, I used a local credit union for financing. The process was super straightforward and only took a couple of days. "Every car they produce will be sold at full price.": If you have a moment, can you expand on that? Are you talking about the various temporary sales/deals/discounts that one sees with other automakers and their dealerships? Thanks!

api 6y ago

Any body panel or other build quality issues? I have a friend who bought a model S a few years ago and had major issues and I've heard horror stories, so I've been trying to give them time to improve on that stuff.

impostervt 6y ago
Haven't seen anything so far. I did notice some rattling from the console display this morning driving over bumpy roads, but that MAY have been from the junk I have stored in the center console. I do wish it wasn't just two big holes/had some organization.
- api 6y ago
  I've heard that some people complaining about rattling just have (LOL warning) "junk in their frunk." :) I am still a little gun-shy about Tesla after my friends' awful experience, but it's been a while. The model 3 is the best somewhat affordable long-range EV in the US market in many ways.
caeril 6y ago
Build quality is fine on mine. The biggest issue, by far, is the steep rate of decline in battery capacity. I have a 2 year old Model 3 Performance, which started at a 310 mile range. In only two years, my maximum range, at full charge, is down to 255 miles. It's a stepwise function, also, not linear. You might wake up one day expecting to take a road trip and discover that the BMS has decided to randomly take 5kWh of cells out of the pack. In about another year, my car will be limited to local commuting only.
- api 6y ago
  That's pretty awful. I hadn't researched that aspect of Tesla and now I really would have to. It makes their high driving ranges less impressive. I've also been researching the latest generation Leaf. I have a 2013 Leaf that is extremely reliable, has no build quality issues worth mentioning, and has only lost about 15% range in 7 years. Of course it lacks fast charge so the battery has not been stressed much, and it hasn't been kept in a really hot climate. Leafs have passively cooled batteries so I would avoid them somewhere that gets really hot for more than a small part of the year. The latest generation Leaf has less sticker range than the Tesla model 3 but if the Tesla degrades like that the two are a closer comparison. The Leaf is much more affordable. Also doesn't have self-drive but I don't trust Tesla's self-drive yet. Latest generation Leaf has some basic "cruise control assist" I think which is about all I'd trust with today's state of the art. I bought my 2013 Leaf used and see some 2019-2020 62kWh Leaf models used right now. Used Leaf has been a decent buy for a while.