7 ms·

Ontario to enter four-week, province-wide Covid-19 shutdown on Saturday

33 points by nomy99 6y ago

undefined1 6y ago
> No indoor and outdoor dining. why no outdoor dining?
- iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
  It's about a show of authority, it has nothing to do with public health? Also who does it apply to jurisdictions that don't have a covid problem? The government is trying to placate frightened Torontonians and entrenched business interests, on the backs of the rest of the province. This is becoming such a joke, I hope at this point people are just ignoring it.
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    All the while they'll capture videos of the rich politicians making the legislation at parties and get togethers at high-end establishments.
- gpm 6y ago
  Probably because the last time they opened outdoor dining restaurants made "outdoor" tents with no ventilation that were practically equivalent to indoor dining. Unfortunately, government regulation is a blunt tool by nature.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  The restaurant staff that enable outdoor dining work inside, in close proximity to each other & frequently can’t afford to take sick time. The real question is what the province is going to do to help the workers & business owners in those industries.
  - frockington1 6y ago
    Right, if they can't afford to take sick time they probably can't afford to not work for four weeks. Any idea if the government is helping these people at all? I didn't see any mention of businesses or employees in the article
    - chc 6y ago
      Canada has a bunch of covid impact programs (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-respons...), as well as normal unemployment insurance. I can't speak on the experience of actually using them, but they are there.
    - guyzero 6y ago
      Ontario won't do anything. The continuing case count is the direct consequence of the Ford government not spending the money they've been given by the Federal government.
frockington1 6y ago
I didn't see anything the article about helping shut down businesses. Any small business that somehow survived the previous shutdowns is likely going to close their doors forever resulting in massive revenue losses for the province
- iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
  I think that's part of the point. Initially I couldn't understand why ostensibly right wing premiers in Ontario and Quebec were to pro-lockdown. But when you see how much the interests of bigger businesses are being served, basically removing all their competitions, it makes more sense. There are fewer lobbying efforts on behalf of smaller business (and none on behalf of people who just want quality of life) to the bigger businesses with a direct line to the government get the covid rules basically written for them.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    The curfew rules some places have is interesting. That type of policies wouldn't fly in America.
    - iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
      I can't believe people are accepting it in canada either. I'm hoping that people will start to push back more as restrictions move from temporary to systematic, but so far I see very little evidence of this. Possibly just because the media refuses to cover it.
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
        > Possibly just because the media refuses to cover it. You mean the government funded state medias? Yeah right...
corry 6y ago
I'm not close enough to the data to know -- so am asking HN -- but why are schools being kept open? Is it because truly there is low risk on transmission that way (and this holds true for new variants too)? Or is this just to avoid the negative drag on worker productivity caused by kids staying home? In other words - how political is the decision to keep schools open? Should concerned parents still keep their kids home anyways? (Note - I don't have school-aged kids, so it's a theoretical question for me - but one that many friends are struggling with).
- hn8788 6y ago
  There was an article published not long ago that said there has been a huge increase in the number of reported mental health cases for school-aged children due to the lack of socialization from lockdowns. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-students/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-c...
- ChrisArchitect 6y ago
  keep schools open (the kids need to go to school/helps on a number of levels), that should be a chosen priority and that's it. drop everything else. Problem is everyone wants it all, shopping and dining and schools. Can't have it all. Society needs to priortize the one thing and lockdown rest
- 14 6y ago
  I don't think we need much more data then what is already available, there are transmissions in children and they are happening at schools. In my local news there have already been several stories about outbreaks happening in schools and having to shut them down for periods of time. Even if kids are at lower risk they are still at risk so sending them to school is foolish if avoidable. I say if avoidable because not working for months on end and starving to death is also not good.
  - space_fountain 6y ago
    Could you please provide citations? My understanding is that most of that transmission is happening outside of school and documents like: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... seem to back up the idea that transmission inside schools is pretty rare. There's also tons of studies showing online school has been devastating to children https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
olyjohn 6y ago
The way at which we are opening up here in Washington State, you'd think that Covid was gone. But now here we are with double the cases we had when we originally shut down, and we're opening things back up. It's like we did all the previous shutdowns for nothing... like all that we did to isolate, work from home, etc was for nothing. It makes it feel like we were wrong to shut down before, and that it wasn't even necessary. Sure we have a vaccine now, a vaccine that most people don't have. It's not any safer now than it has been. It makes it feel like the Republicans were partly right in that the shutdowns only caused unnecessary economic damage, and that isolation did nothing. I want to believe that's not true, but that's not the message that I'm getting now.
- frockington1 6y ago
  Do you know what is causing the vaccine delays in your state? I'm in Ohio and anyone can get a vaccine now by scheduling an appointment online. So much optimism now when there was none. Even if it is a little slower in your state don't give up hope, its coming soon
- undefined1 6y ago
  Florida vs California is telling. FL mostly stayed open and didn't do much worse than CA, despite Florida's much older population.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    Per capita or overall?
    - chc 6y ago
      Per capita. Florida did anomalously well given its seemingly poor handling of the situation. It's likely related to the fact that California has 3 of the 10 biggest cities in the US while Florida has 0, but that doesn't seem like enough to fully explain it.
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
richardlblair 6y ago
It's another pseudo lock down that won't accomplish anything. Ford has been putting in half measures and has lacked follow through. It has confused the population, and people are growing tired of his bullshit. This is resulting in people making up their own rules. Vaccine roll out has also been a laugh. The older populations book their appointments early in the morning, so the vaccine clinic sit vacant throughout the day. I'm deeply disappointed by our federal and provincial government. I'm also really disappointed in my fellow citizens. We got so over confident from a strong start, but we have been fumbling along since we reopened too early last summer. We had an opportunity to drive cases down to single digit, but the province opened when we were just under 100 cases / day. We haven't recovered since.
greenyoda 6y ago
Paris is also in a 4-week lockdown: https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/543993-paris-goes-into-4-week-lockdown-amid-rampant-spread-of-covid-19 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/543993-paris...
- sleepysysadmin 6y ago
  When has Paris not been in lockdown in the last 2 years? March 2019 France mass arrested boatloads of people. Tons of journalists and activists fled the country. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/09/france-thousands-of-protesters-wrongly-punished-under-draconian-laws-in-pre-and-post-covid19-crackdown/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/09/france-thousa... covid only gave them an excuse to go even further.
motohagiography 6y ago
Reading this upon just arriving home from finding one of my remaining Toronto staple restaurants boarded up after 30+ years in business. (The Rooster, piri piri chicken place at bloor/ossington) I get the sense on the street that the credibility of these orders and the authority behind them is diminishing. It's been a year of data, analysis, effects, and now even vaccines/treatments for the minority of vulnerable people, and popular tolerance for policy that destroys livelihoods of many and the culture and opportunity for most, is wearing very thin.
- richardlblair 6y ago
  Layer in the fact that it's not even a real lock down, so it will have minimal impact on the number of new cases. If they need to lock us down (and in the process hurt business) fine, but actually lock us down. These half measures hurt people, businesses, and on top of it don't really do much to help the hardest hit cities.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
So, does this mean America is ... doing better than Europe and Canada w/ covid? I mean I know we have aggressively rolled out vaccines, but we've never really been a "leader" since the pandemic started, except in cases and number of dead.. I'm not a Biden fan, but at least it feels like we've been more pro-active lately. If we could just mask-up and stay home as much as possible, and get vaccinated we could stay out of the news and go back to "new normal" by end of summer.

33 points by nomy99 6y ago

undefined1 6y ago

> No indoor and outdoor dining. why no outdoor dining?

iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
It's about a show of authority, it has nothing to do with public health? Also who does it apply to jurisdictions that don't have a covid problem? The government is trying to placate frightened Torontonians and entrenched business interests, on the backs of the rest of the province. This is becoming such a joke, I hope at this point people are just ignoring it.
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  All the while they'll capture videos of the rich politicians making the legislation at parties and get togethers at high-end establishments.
gpm 6y ago
Probably because the last time they opened outdoor dining restaurants made "outdoor" tents with no ventilation that were practically equivalent to indoor dining. Unfortunately, government regulation is a blunt tool by nature.
kasey_junk 6y ago
The restaurant staff that enable outdoor dining work inside, in close proximity to each other & frequently can’t afford to take sick time. The real question is what the province is going to do to help the workers & business owners in those industries.
- frockington1 6y ago
  Right, if they can't afford to take sick time they probably can't afford to not work for four weeks. Any idea if the government is helping these people at all? I didn't see any mention of businesses or employees in the article
  - chc 6y ago
    Canada has a bunch of covid impact programs (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-respons...), as well as normal unemployment insurance. I can't speak on the experience of actually using them, but they are there.
  - guyzero 6y ago
    Ontario won't do anything. The continuing case count is the direct consequence of the Ford government not spending the money they've been given by the Federal government.

frockington1 6y ago

I didn't see anything the article about helping shut down businesses. Any small business that somehow survived the previous shutdowns is likely going to close their doors forever resulting in massive revenue losses for the province

iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
I think that's part of the point. Initially I couldn't understand why ostensibly right wing premiers in Ontario and Quebec were to pro-lockdown. But when you see how much the interests of bigger businesses are being served, basically removing all their competitions, it makes more sense. There are fewer lobbying efforts on behalf of smaller business (and none on behalf of people who just want quality of life) to the bigger businesses with a direct line to the government get the covid rules basically written for them.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  The curfew rules some places have is interesting. That type of policies wouldn't fly in America.
  - iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
    I can't believe people are accepting it in canada either. I'm hoping that people will start to push back more as restrictions move from temporary to systematic, but so far I see very little evidence of this. Possibly just because the media refuses to cover it.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      > Possibly just because the media refuses to cover it. You mean the government funded state medias? Yeah right...

corry 6y ago

I'm not close enough to the data to know -- so am asking HN -- but why are schools being kept open? Is it because truly there is low risk on transmission that way (and this holds true for new variants too)? Or is this just to avoid the negative drag on worker productivity caused by kids staying home? In other words - how political is the decision to keep schools open? Should concerned parents still keep their kids home anyways? (Note - I don't have school-aged kids, so it's a theoretical question for me - but one that many friends are struggling with).

hn8788 6y ago
There was an article published not long ago that said there has been a huge increase in the number of reported mental health cases for school-aged children due to the lack of socialization from lockdowns. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-students/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-c...
ChrisArchitect 6y ago
keep schools open (the kids need to go to school/helps on a number of levels), that should be a chosen priority and that's it. drop everything else. Problem is everyone wants it all, shopping and dining and schools. Can't have it all. Society needs to priortize the one thing and lockdown rest
14 6y ago
I don't think we need much more data then what is already available, there are transmissions in children and they are happening at schools. In my local news there have already been several stories about outbreaks happening in schools and having to shut them down for periods of time. Even if kids are at lower risk they are still at risk so sending them to school is foolish if avoidable. I say if avoidable because not working for months on end and starving to death is also not good.
- space_fountain 6y ago
  Could you please provide citations? My understanding is that most of that transmission is happening outside of school and documents like: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... seem to back up the idea that transmission inside schools is pretty rare. There's also tons of studies showing online school has been devastating to children https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

olyjohn 6y ago

The way at which we are opening up here in Washington State, you'd think that Covid was gone. But now here we are with double the cases we had when we originally shut down, and we're opening things back up. It's like we did all the previous shutdowns for nothing... like all that we did to isolate, work from home, etc was for nothing. It makes it feel like we were wrong to shut down before, and that it wasn't even necessary. Sure we have a vaccine now, a vaccine that most people don't have. It's not any safer now than it has been. It makes it feel like the Republicans were partly right in that the shutdowns only caused unnecessary economic damage, and that isolation did nothing. I want to believe that's not true, but that's not the message that I'm getting now.

frockington1 6y ago
Do you know what is causing the vaccine delays in your state? I'm in Ohio and anyone can get a vaccine now by scheduling an appointment online. So much optimism now when there was none. Even if it is a little slower in your state don't give up hope, its coming soon
undefined1 6y ago
Florida vs California is telling. FL mostly stayed open and didn't do much worse than CA, despite Florida's much older population.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  Per capita or overall?
  - chc 6y ago
    Per capita. Florida did anomalously well given its seemingly poor handling of the situation. It's likely related to the fact that California has 3 of the 10 biggest cities in the US while Florida has 0, but that doesn't seem like enough to fully explain it.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago

richardlblair 6y ago

It's another pseudo lock down that won't accomplish anything. Ford has been putting in half measures and has lacked follow through. It has confused the population, and people are growing tired of his bullshit. This is resulting in people making up their own rules. Vaccine roll out has also been a laugh. The older populations book their appointments early in the morning, so the vaccine clinic sit vacant throughout the day. I'm deeply disappointed by our federal and provincial government. I'm also really disappointed in my fellow citizens. We got so over confident from a strong start, but we have been fumbling along since we reopened too early last summer. We had an opportunity to drive cases down to single digit, but the province opened when we were just under 100 cases / day. We haven't recovered since.

greenyoda 6y ago

Paris is also in a 4-week lockdown: https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/543993-paris-goes-into-4-week-lockdown-amid-rampant-spread-of-covid-19 https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/543993-paris...

sleepysysadmin 6y ago
When has Paris not been in lockdown in the last 2 years? March 2019 France mass arrested boatloads of people. Tons of journalists and activists fled the country. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/09/france-thousands-of-protesters-wrongly-punished-under-draconian-laws-in-pre-and-post-covid19-crackdown/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/09/france-thousa... covid only gave them an excuse to go even further.

motohagiography 6y ago

Reading this upon just arriving home from finding one of my remaining Toronto staple restaurants boarded up after 30+ years in business. (The Rooster, piri piri chicken place at bloor/ossington) I get the sense on the street that the credibility of these orders and the authority behind them is diminishing. It's been a year of data, analysis, effects, and now even vaccines/treatments for the minority of vulnerable people, and popular tolerance for policy that destroys livelihoods of many and the culture and opportunity for most, is wearing very thin.

richardlblair 6y ago
Layer in the fact that it's not even a real lock down, so it will have minimal impact on the number of new cases. If they need to lock us down (and in the process hurt business) fine, but actually lock us down. These half measures hurt people, businesses, and on top of it don't really do much to help the hardest hit cities.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

So, does this mean America is ... doing better than Europe and Canada w/ covid? I mean I know we have aggressively rolled out vaccines, but we've never really been a "leader" since the pandemic started, except in cases and number of dead.. I'm not a Biden fan, but at least it feels like we've been more pro-active lately. If we could just mask-up and stay home as much as possible, and get vaccinated we could stay out of the news and go back to "new normal" by end of summer.