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Brits head home to avoid being deported as illegals in Spain

ilamont 6y ago
Another returning at Malaga airport today was Shaun Cromber who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ”Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this ... long term I think the Spanish will regret chucking us out of Spain” Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit, was this a common attitude that they would be allowed to stay? Or were they told they would be allowed to keep residency rights?
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  They probably would be allowed to stay if they bothered with residency requirements. All across EU the requirement for applying for local citizenship was living i the country for 5 years.
  - wnevets 6y ago
    Voting for brexit and not bothering to perform basic research go together like PB and J
  - klyrs 6y ago
    The article says some were denied residency, the others simply don't want to pay taxes that come with residency. But, jeez. Kinda hard to feel sorry for somebody from the UK, who doesn't want to live in the UK, who has lived in Spain for 7 years, but voted for brexit and is suddenly surprised that he's lost privileges reserved for EU citizens. And then the best he can say is that the Spanish will regret this?
    - heavenlyblue 6y ago
      > the others simply don't want to pay taxes that come with residency. Well, 5 years implies paying taxes i the country too. So if they were not paying taxes there then obviously why would Spain give them the citizenship?
- matwood 6y ago
  A lot of people are just learning that elections and voting have real consequences.
  - krona 6y ago
    Sometimes elections have consequences. Usually not.
- usbzcable 6y ago
  > Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit, was this a common attitude that they would be allowed to stay? Or were they told they would be allowed to keep residency rights? https://ig.ft.com/sites/expats-on-brexit/ https://ig.ft.com/sites/expats-on-brexit/ has some pre-referendum views of British emigrants. One says "I want practical facts. The Government and Brexit campaigners have been silent on what will happen to Britons abroad if we leave.".
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit Apparently 95% of expats were AGAINST brexit[0], but of course in any group large enough it's easy to find idiots like Mr Cromber above. [0] http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/52513 http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/52513
  - mcjiggerlog 6y ago
    Schadenfreude seems to be the prevailing take in these kinds of threads, but as a Brit living in Spain I can tell you that the people in the article are not representative of most Brits in Spain. There are plenty of young Brits living in cities around Spain; it's not all just pensioners in the costas. The vast vast majority voted against Brexit and are devastated, if not surprised, by how it has played out. Luckily, getting residency was fairly straightforward, with the requirements basically being that you live and work / are retired in Spain. The hardest part though is knowing that further generations are not able to exercise the same freedoms that we were able to. So many unlived experiences, friendships, marriages, children. That truly is the greatest shame of all.
    - Archelaos 6y ago
      I am curious to hear some estimates from HN readers from the UK about whether they think that the UK might rejoin the EU in a couple of years. Is that realistic?
      - toyg 6y ago
        No. In a couple of decades, maybe; but still very unlikely (if anything because the EU is now much stricter on criteria for new entrants, and this is only going to increase over time). I’d say chances are 90% that the UK will never re-join. Uk gov might find some hack to get into a Norway-shaped position, but full membership is gone for good.
      - fakedang 6y ago
        I'd wager within another 20-40 years, although by then it might be a different world altogether.
- toyg 6y ago
  They were indeed allowed to keep residency rights, but they had to register for them - which would mean their less-than-transparent tax arrangements would have come to light. I’d be willing to bet most of these used to draw income or pensions in the UK, recorded their state there as “non-dom” or other living-abroad type, and then never registered in Spain; hence avoiding taxes both in UK and Spain. But yea, loads of uk expats in Spain (who demographically trend over-50s) specifically voted for Leave while thinking nothing would really change for them. The exceptionalist mindset spread by UK tabloid media is incredible. Now they’ve lost their little tax-free paradise in the sun, and they’re back with us under they grey Albion skies. As an EU expat in UK, I will make sure to play the tiniest violin for them every day.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >> recorded their state there as “non-dom” or other living-abroad type, and then never registered in Spain; hence avoiding taxes both in UK and Spain. I mean, while I enjoy this idea as much as anyone, I don't think it's possible. If you tell HMRC that you don't have a British tax residency, then they will insist(very persistently) that you tell them which tax residency you do actually have, and with EU countries they absolutely do exchange information on taxpayers. It might take a few months or even years but they absolutely will catch up with you eventually.
    - mrmrcoleman 6y ago
      That wasn't my experience as a UK expat in the Netherlands. I was there for 11 years and I never heard a thing from HMRC.
      - VBprogrammer 6y ago
        Presumably you were paying tax in the Netherlands though?
      - gambiting 6y ago
        If you were paying tax in the Netherlands they would have automatically notified HMRC.
- 533474 6y ago
  oh, the irony...
- donohoe 6y ago
  Zero sympathy for those who vote Leave
padraic7a 6y ago
I think one of the issues is that you must prove that you have an income and can support yourself. A certain amount of amount of British people were working "cash in hand" and not paying any tax, so they won't be able or willing to register now. This is referenced by an interviewee on the article. Why you would live in the EU, vote for Brexit and then cry when leaving the EU to return 'home' is beyond me though.
- usbzcable 6y ago
  > Why you would live in the EU, vote for Brexit and then cry when leaving the EU to return 'home' is beyond me though. They may have expected a right-to-residency that had different terms. This article doesn't go into such details, however, so it'll be difficult to tell.
  - klipt 6y ago
    Or Spain has a history of leniency towards undocumented immigrants and they thought they'd get the same treatment. If course the problem with breaking the law is it opens you up to selective enforcement if Spain decides it wants to thumb its nose at the Brits in particular.
  - kergonath 6y ago
    They thought it would only happen to others, as usual... They were so deep in disinformation that they called “project fear” any attempt to explain them what the situation would actually be. Because of course, who in their right mind would avocate for leaving the EFTA? Surely, brits spend money locally, so why wouldn’t the local governments bend the rules whilst the British government gets all jingoistic about continental queue jumpers? It’s all fun and games until the borders get closed. In the end, real people from both sides of the referendum pay the price.
- deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
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yardie 6y ago
Well, well, well... If it isn't the consequences of my own actions
f430 6y ago
My question is why are so many Brits in Spain in the first place?
- blue_box 6y ago
  The weather
- ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
  England is cold and grey, and the food sucks. Every mediterranean country is littered with Brits, especially retirees / pensioners.
  - usbzcable 6y ago
    > Every mediterranean country is littered with Brits, especially retirees / pensioners. "Littered"? If you replace "Brits" with other groups, are you still happy with the tone of the sentence?
    - padraic7a 6y ago
      Littered isn't necessarily a pejorative term. You could litter a bed with rose petals, or find your path littered with gold coins. It's not necessarily like saying 'trashed'.
      - usbzcable 6y ago
        I had forgotten the alternative definition. Thanks!
      - kowlo 6y ago
        Definitely, it isn't necessarily a pejorative term. In this case however, given the context, I believe it's used as such...
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here? Your account has been sliding into flamewar repeatedly already, including nationalistic and regional flamewar. We're trying for something other than that here.
pumpkinhead 6y ago
This Brexit thing - it's almost as if the British people didn't know anything at all when they voted for it. So many of them are genuinely surprised at what is happening. What happened?
- usbzcable 6y ago
  > So many of them are genuinely surprised at what is happening. So many?
  - pumpkinhead 6y ago
    Brexit in general. I have been following what looks like an absolute clusterfuck: From the exporters at the border who didn't know they had to have the right paperwork to the Northern Ireland protocol. It looks too awful to be true.
    - usbzcable 6y ago
      It's unfair to judge Brexit by a few aspects. It has to be evaluated holistically, and account for different value systems. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-th... tracks the UK's evolving view on whether Brexit was the correct decision.
- deleted 6y ago
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- cameronh90 6y ago
  As much as I regret that Brexit happened, I don't really think this is the direct fault of the voters that they didn't understand all the issues when voting for Brexit. We have a representative democracy. Generally, you would assume if you're being asked to vote in a referendum, that either outcome would be implementable. Turns out that the referendum was really just David Cameron's plan to unify the conservatives, and he expected remain would win by a landslide, so didn't have a plan for if leave won. Of course, we did vote for those representatives in the first place, so it's indirectly our fault either way. That being said, given the enormity of this change, it was always going to be a challenge for the first year or two after it went into effect. In principle, EU scepticism is a perfectly reasonable view to have, our politicians just let us down.
bogomipz 6y ago
>"...I don’t have enough credentials to become a resident, it was so easy before, get your funds in from the UK, do a bit of cash in hand around the likes of Benidorm and bob was your uncle, but that’s all changed now – hey, don’t be fooled thousands of Brits in some guise or other have been doing the same thing, especially in the entertainment industry!" Could someone say what this means? I know Benidorm is a resort area popular with Brits but why was cash important if they were legally there anyway pre-Brexit? What's the angle?
- ggm 6y ago
  Cash in hand means non taxed. So, not paying Spanish payroll tax, which includes hypothicated taxes for health.
- hobolobo 6y ago
  He's saying that life in Spain was easier when you could have your pension/unemploment benefit paid into your account from the UK whilst also earning money doing cash in hand jobs locally.
- throwawayfire 6y ago
  It seems to me most likely that the speaker had continued to be "resident" in the UK for tax purposes, and effectively had a second home in Spain. As such, they were claiming welfare benefits in the UK, meanwhile working in Spain, and not declaring their income for tax in either country.
bogomipz 6y ago
Does anyone know why some were denied residency? Is there a threshold for professional credentials or proof of financial self-sufficiency they didn't meet?
- Daho0n 6y ago
  I don't know the rules but maybe they wanted to keep their UK citizenship? Edit: okay I actually read a bit of what is going on. They have zero income so can't stay. In reality they did have an income but didn't declare it to avoid taxes. No-one to blame but themselves in most cases it seems.
mdoms 6y ago
Well, yes, that's what they voted for. It's like the main thing in brexit. Also the writing in this article is dogshit.
mk81 6y ago
Come back on a boat and live in a tent. Then they won't get deported.
diego 6y ago
If you google "Shaun Cromber" the only match is this article. No Shaun Cromber on Facebook either. Very high chance of being fake.
- deleted 6y ago
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- hjek 6y ago
  Not having a Facebook profile or not having been on the news before does not mean you don't exist[0]. There are a good few people named "Shaun Cromer" on Facebook. It could well be made up but in my view the domain name and the "Powered by Wordpress" banner in the bottom are stronger indicators. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkSoAE1bizs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkSoAE1bizs
  - xyzzy21 6y ago
    Exactly. Don't have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. etc. accounts. And never will. It all sounded like a raw deal from the get go. I grew up during the Cold War and traveled to East Berlin back then - FB seems far too much like a Stasi system. So never was interested. I generally avoid having an online presence anymore even though I was online back when it was called the Arpanet!
- TomVDB 6y ago
  Every once in a while, I Google the names of my classmates back in elementary, middle, highschool, and college. There are no crumbs to be found of them for the vast, vast majority. If these people are older than their mid fourties, as they almost certainly are, I’d expect that to be the case just the same. Especially for countries with stronger privacy protections. (IOW: no “find out about the petty crimes that your neighbor committed 35 years ago” websites.)
IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
For any brits unhappy about the spanish red tape and looking for alternatives. Check out Cuenca , Ecuador (South America). Its a very big US retiree expat community, from what I understand, that may be the largest worldwide. They even have an expat newspaper. Unlimited long term residency, tax free. Very nice weather and a few hours away from the beach. Very affordable. https://expatsecuador.com/cuenca/cuenca-moving-guide/ https://expatsecuador.com/cuenca/cuenca-moving-guide/
- Daho0n 6y ago
  Does it have no taxes at all? Because without a deal with the UK residents would have to pay full tax in the UK plus any local tax if they have income from there. I'm not sure a lot of Americans is a bonus to attract Brits though.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
    IANAL, but AFAIK no tax, unless you work under another entity's payroll and that entity is a large taxpaying entity. The economy is informal enough that if you work for cash and get paid cash and its not big figures, no one is going to come looking for you, either. That includes retirement income, and any foreign wires. Wasn't stating having Americans around was a bonus, simply, that US expats seem to be making that decision, make of that what you will
mrlonglong 6y ago
All this is down to the steady drip drip effect that British mass media has on the population which has brought us to this situation. As a life long EU supporter I was dismayed by the results of the referendum and the recent general election. Even worse it broke my heart when the EU took action over its dismal failure to vaccinate their people as the UK had done rather well. This does not bode well for the future.
ggm 6y ago
Here's the text of a paywalled article from the times with better example info of how people get in this situation: not having health insurance for instance. Your 90 days are up, Europe tells holiday home Britons Charlie Devereux, Malaga | Tom Kington, Rome | Charles Bremner, Paris - Saturday March 27 2021, 12.01am GMT John Price and Elaine Wilson may have to abandon their home in Spain after their post-Brexit residency application was rejected. The couple were told that their claim failed because they had not bought private medical insurance before the end of last year, when the transition phase of Brexit ended. Wilson, 53, a former paramedic, was waiting for the all-clear on breast cancer before buying insurance and the couple had been advised that they had until March 31. Lawyers have told them that their appeal will probably fail. They are checking a Spanish government website daily to see if their appeal has been recorded. So far it has not, and they do not know if they will wake up on April 1 as illegal aliens. “We’re on tenterhooks,” Price, 51, said. “We don’t know if we face fines, a bad stamp in our passports and being banned from entering the Schengen area. A rock and a hard place springs to mind.” Britons across Europe are slipping into a post-Brexit limbo as red tape confounds their efforts to establish residency under new rules. In Italy Britons who have residency are being refused jobs, healthcare, bank accounts and car purchases despite those rights and services being guaranteed under the EU Withdrawal Agreement. In France like Price and Wilson in Spain, those living in their holiday homes since January 1 must leave the country by Thursday or face possible deportation and a ban on re-entering the country. April 1 marks the 90-day maximum that UK citizens are allowed to stay in any EU state within a six-month period without residence papers or a visa. Before Wilson’s illness the couple spent their time shuttling between Spain and Shropshire, were they manage properties and a bed and breakfast business. But she says the cancer both made up her mind that she wanted to settle in Spain but also to delay the permanent move to Spain in order to complete her treatment in the UK for the sake of continuity. In Spain thousands of Britons have rushed to legalise their status. Confusion and misinformation about the rules, which are interpreted differently in each region, has left many fearing that they will be ejected from a place they consider home. Spain’s byzantine bureaucracy has spawned a parallel business of administrators or gestores to help foreigners to interpret the requirements. When Jeff Lunn and his wife, Deborah, applied for residency in August using a gestor recommended by friends they expected few problems. Seven months later they are h awaiting an appeal decision after their initial application was rejected. The gestor had failed to include the terms and conditions for their medical insurance and the error has left them in limbo. They sold their home in Yorkshire and moved to a three-bedroom villa in Murcia. The Lunns, who voted leave in the EU referendum, have had to hand in their British driving licences but will not get Spanish ones unless their residency is approved. They say they “have invested a lot of money here in Spain”. Liza Hartley got her residency in December but her daughter, Anya, 12, did not. Hartley moved to Marbella to give Anya a bilingual education. She has been told her daughter’s application failed because of suspicions that she could have been kidnapped by her mother. The authorities need Hartley’s partner, Jimmy, who runs a construction business in Lancashire, to come to Spain and sign papers saying he gives consent. He cannot make it before the March 31 deadline because of Covid restrictions. Thousands more face becoming illegal aliens in Spain on Thursday. Many have been living under the radar to avoid paying taxes, Anne Hernández, the president of Brexpats, which advises Britons in Spain on how to navigate the bureaucracy Brexit has created, said. “Now it’s suddenly, ‘Oh, what am I going to do? I may become an illegal immigrant,’ ” she said. “The scariest thing is they think they’re going to do them for taxes. It’s come back to bite them.” Others have simply been stumped by the bureaucracy. Spain chose the simpler form of withdrawal agreement, the declaratory system, which in theory reduced the bureaucratic load compared with other EU countries. But paperwork that is needed includes a copy of every page of a passport, a work contract, private health insurance and title deeds or a rental contract. Britons also have to sit a driving test in Spanish if they did not swap their licence last year. That has been compounded by inconsistencies in the interpretation of the rules. “We have 17 autonomous regions in Spain and each one can interpret the rules differently,” Hernández said. “When you’re dealing with British who might not speak the language, they might be elderly, they get very confused and walk away totally upset thinking, ‘that’s it I’ve got to leave Spain’. Steven Jolly, 65, a retired teacher from Yorkshire who owns a home in Normandy, said other Britons were returning to the UK. “Some are in their seventies and find it too much. Things like having to get health insurance with pre-existing conditions.” Jeremy Morgan, a former QC who retired to Umbria and campaigns for Britons in Italy, said Italian officials were unaware that residents’ rights were protected under the Withdrawal Agreement. “We are often treated like third country migrants from outside the EU,” he said.
kyriakos 6y ago
What I noticed with British expats in my country they one of the most vocal group against anything local including government policy and culture. Something that I find extremely weird considering they chose to move here but at the same time it makes sense for them to vote for brexit.
rich_sasha 6y ago
But I thought they are expats, not immigrants, and certainly wouldn’t be illegal? Seriously, EU ganging up on poor Britain.

Another returning at Malaga airport today was Shaun Cromber who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ”Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this ... long term I think the Spanish will regret chucking us out of Spain” Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit, was this a common attitude that they would be allowed to stay? Or were they told they would be allowed to keep residency rights?

heavenlyblue 6y ago
They probably would be allowed to stay if they bothered with residency requirements. All across EU the requirement for applying for local citizenship was living i the country for 5 years.
- wnevets 6y ago
  Voting for brexit and not bothering to perform basic research go together like PB and J
- klyrs 6y ago
  The article says some were denied residency, the others simply don't want to pay taxes that come with residency. But, jeez. Kinda hard to feel sorry for somebody from the UK, who doesn't want to live in the UK, who has lived in Spain for 7 years, but voted for brexit and is suddenly surprised that he's lost privileges reserved for EU citizens. And then the best he can say is that the Spanish will regret this?
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    > the others simply don't want to pay taxes that come with residency. Well, 5 years implies paying taxes i the country too. So if they were not paying taxes there then obviously why would Spain give them the citizenship?
matwood 6y ago
A lot of people are just learning that elections and voting have real consequences.
- krona 6y ago
  Sometimes elections have consequences. Usually not.
usbzcable 6y ago
> Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit, was this a common attitude that they would be allowed to stay? Or were they told they would be allowed to keep residency rights? https://ig.ft.com/sites/expats-on-brexit/ https://ig.ft.com/sites/expats-on-brexit/ has some pre-referendum views of British emigrants. One says "I want practical facts. The Government and Brexit campaigners have been silent on what will happen to Britons abroad if we leave.".
gambiting 6y ago
>>Among expat Britons in Spain who voted for Brexit Apparently 95% of expats were AGAINST brexit[0], but of course in any group large enough it's easy to find idiots like Mr Cromber above. [0] http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/52513 http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/52513
- mcjiggerlog 6y ago
  Schadenfreude seems to be the prevailing take in these kinds of threads, but as a Brit living in Spain I can tell you that the people in the article are not representative of most Brits in Spain. There are plenty of young Brits living in cities around Spain; it's not all just pensioners in the costas. The vast vast majority voted against Brexit and are devastated, if not surprised, by how it has played out. Luckily, getting residency was fairly straightforward, with the requirements basically being that you live and work / are retired in Spain. The hardest part though is knowing that further generations are not able to exercise the same freedoms that we were able to. So many unlived experiences, friendships, marriages, children. That truly is the greatest shame of all.
  - Archelaos 6y ago
    I am curious to hear some estimates from HN readers from the UK about whether they think that the UK might rejoin the EU in a couple of years. Is that realistic?
    - toyg 6y ago
      No. In a couple of decades, maybe; but still very unlikely (if anything because the EU is now much stricter on criteria for new entrants, and this is only going to increase over time). I’d say chances are 90% that the UK will never re-join. Uk gov might find some hack to get into a Norway-shaped position, but full membership is gone for good.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      I'd wager within another 20-40 years, although by then it might be a different world altogether.
toyg 6y ago
They were indeed allowed to keep residency rights, but they had to register for them - which would mean their less-than-transparent tax arrangements would have come to light. I’d be willing to bet most of these used to draw income or pensions in the UK, recorded their state there as “non-dom” or other living-abroad type, and then never registered in Spain; hence avoiding taxes both in UK and Spain. But yea, loads of uk expats in Spain (who demographically trend over-50s) specifically voted for Leave while thinking nothing would really change for them. The exceptionalist mindset spread by UK tabloid media is incredible. Now they’ve lost their little tax-free paradise in the sun, and they’re back with us under they grey Albion skies. As an EU expat in UK, I will make sure to play the tiniest violin for them every day.
- gambiting 6y ago
  >> recorded their state there as “non-dom” or other living-abroad type, and then never registered in Spain; hence avoiding taxes both in UK and Spain. I mean, while I enjoy this idea as much as anyone, I don't think it's possible. If you tell HMRC that you don't have a British tax residency, then they will insist(very persistently) that you tell them which tax residency you do actually have, and with EU countries they absolutely do exchange information on taxpayers. It might take a few months or even years but they absolutely will catch up with you eventually.
  - mrmrcoleman 6y ago
    That wasn't my experience as a UK expat in the Netherlands. I was there for 11 years and I never heard a thing from HMRC.
    - VBprogrammer 6y ago
      Presumably you were paying tax in the Netherlands though?
    - gambiting 6y ago
      If you were paying tax in the Netherlands they would have automatically notified HMRC.
533474 6y ago
oh, the irony...
donohoe 6y ago
Zero sympathy for those who vote Leave

padraic7a 6y ago

I think one of the issues is that you must prove that you have an income and can support yourself. A certain amount of amount of British people were working "cash in hand" and not paying any tax, so they won't be able or willing to register now. This is referenced by an interviewee on the article. Why you would live in the EU, vote for Brexit and then cry when leaving the EU to return 'home' is beyond me though.

usbzcable 6y ago
> Why you would live in the EU, vote for Brexit and then cry when leaving the EU to return 'home' is beyond me though. They may have expected a right-to-residency that had different terms. This article doesn't go into such details, however, so it'll be difficult to tell.
- klipt 6y ago
  Or Spain has a history of leniency towards undocumented immigrants and they thought they'd get the same treatment. If course the problem with breaking the law is it opens you up to selective enforcement if Spain decides it wants to thumb its nose at the Brits in particular.
- kergonath 6y ago
  They thought it would only happen to others, as usual... They were so deep in disinformation that they called “project fear” any attempt to explain them what the situation would actually be. Because of course, who in their right mind would avocate for leaving the EFTA? Surely, brits spend money locally, so why wouldn’t the local governments bend the rules whilst the British government gets all jingoistic about continental queue jumpers? It’s all fun and games until the borders get closed. In the end, real people from both sides of the referendum pay the price.
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yardie 6y ago

Well, well, well... If it isn't the consequences of my own actions

f430 6y ago

My question is why are so many Brits in Spain in the first place?

blue_box 6y ago
The weather
ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
England is cold and grey, and the food sucks. Every mediterranean country is littered with Brits, especially retirees / pensioners.
- usbzcable 6y ago
  > Every mediterranean country is littered with Brits, especially retirees / pensioners. "Littered"? If you replace "Brits" with other groups, are you still happy with the tone of the sentence?
  - padraic7a 6y ago
    Littered isn't necessarily a pejorative term. You could litter a bed with rose petals, or find your path littered with gold coins. It's not necessarily like saying 'trashed'.
    - usbzcable 6y ago
      I had forgotten the alternative definition. Thanks!
    - kowlo 6y ago
      Definitely, it isn't necessarily a pejorative term. In this case however, given the context, I believe it's used as such...
- dang 6y ago
  Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here? Your account has been sliding into flamewar repeatedly already, including nationalistic and regional flamewar. We're trying for something other than that here.

pumpkinhead 6y ago

This Brexit thing - it's almost as if the British people didn't know anything at all when they voted for it. So many of them are genuinely surprised at what is happening. What happened?

usbzcable 6y ago
> So many of them are genuinely surprised at what is happening. So many?
- pumpkinhead 6y ago
  Brexit in general. I have been following what looks like an absolute clusterfuck: From the exporters at the border who didn't know they had to have the right paperwork to the Northern Ireland protocol. It looks too awful to be true.
  - usbzcable 6y ago
    It's unfair to judge Brexit by a few aspects. It has to be evaluated holistically, and account for different value systems. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-th... tracks the UK's evolving view on whether Brexit was the correct decision.
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cameronh90 6y ago
As much as I regret that Brexit happened, I don't really think this is the direct fault of the voters that they didn't understand all the issues when voting for Brexit. We have a representative democracy. Generally, you would assume if you're being asked to vote in a referendum, that either outcome would be implementable. Turns out that the referendum was really just David Cameron's plan to unify the conservatives, and he expected remain would win by a landslide, so didn't have a plan for if leave won. Of course, we did vote for those representatives in the first place, so it's indirectly our fault either way. That being said, given the enormity of this change, it was always going to be a challenge for the first year or two after it went into effect. In principle, EU scepticism is a perfectly reasonable view to have, our politicians just let us down.

bogomipz 6y ago

>"...I don’t have enough credentials to become a resident, it was so easy before, get your funds in from the UK, do a bit of cash in hand around the likes of Benidorm and bob was your uncle, but that’s all changed now – hey, don’t be fooled thousands of Brits in some guise or other have been doing the same thing, especially in the entertainment industry!" Could someone say what this means? I know Benidorm is a resort area popular with Brits but why was cash important if they were legally there anyway pre-Brexit? What's the angle?

ggm 6y ago
Cash in hand means non taxed. So, not paying Spanish payroll tax, which includes hypothicated taxes for health.
hobolobo 6y ago
He's saying that life in Spain was easier when you could have your pension/unemploment benefit paid into your account from the UK whilst also earning money doing cash in hand jobs locally.
throwawayfire 6y ago
It seems to me most likely that the speaker had continued to be "resident" in the UK for tax purposes, and effectively had a second home in Spain. As such, they were claiming welfare benefits in the UK, meanwhile working in Spain, and not declaring their income for tax in either country.

bogomipz 6y ago

Does anyone know why some were denied residency? Is there a threshold for professional credentials or proof of financial self-sufficiency they didn't meet?

Daho0n 6y ago
I don't know the rules but maybe they wanted to keep their UK citizenship? Edit: okay I actually read a bit of what is going on. They have zero income so can't stay. In reality they did have an income but didn't declare it to avoid taxes. No-one to blame but themselves in most cases it seems.

mdoms 6y ago

Well, yes, that's what they voted for. It's like the main thing in brexit. Also the writing in this article is dogshit.

mk81 6y ago

Come back on a boat and live in a tent. Then they won't get deported.

diego 6y ago

If you google "Shaun Cromber" the only match is this article. No Shaun Cromber on Facebook either. Very high chance of being fake.

deleted 6y ago
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hjek 6y ago
Not having a Facebook profile or not having been on the news before does not mean you don't exist[0]. There are a good few people named "Shaun Cromer" on Facebook. It could well be made up but in my view the domain name and the "Powered by Wordpress" banner in the bottom are stronger indicators. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkSoAE1bizs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkSoAE1bizs
- xyzzy21 6y ago
  Exactly. Don't have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. etc. accounts. And never will. It all sounded like a raw deal from the get go. I grew up during the Cold War and traveled to East Berlin back then - FB seems far too much like a Stasi system. So never was interested. I generally avoid having an online presence anymore even though I was online back when it was called the Arpanet!
TomVDB 6y ago
Every once in a while, I Google the names of my classmates back in elementary, middle, highschool, and college. There are no crumbs to be found of them for the vast, vast majority. If these people are older than their mid fourties, as they almost certainly are, I’d expect that to be the case just the same. Especially for countries with stronger privacy protections. (IOW: no “find out about the petty crimes that your neighbor committed 35 years ago” websites.)

IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago

For any brits unhappy about the spanish red tape and looking for alternatives. Check out Cuenca , Ecuador (South America). Its a very big US retiree expat community, from what I understand, that may be the largest worldwide. They even have an expat newspaper. Unlimited long term residency, tax free. Very nice weather and a few hours away from the beach. Very affordable. https://expatsecuador.com/cuenca/cuenca-moving-guide/ https://expatsecuador.com/cuenca/cuenca-moving-guide/

Daho0n 6y ago
Does it have no taxes at all? Because without a deal with the UK residents would have to pay full tax in the UK plus any local tax if they have income from there. I'm not sure a lot of Americans is a bonus to attract Brits though.
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  IANAL, but AFAIK no tax, unless you work under another entity's payroll and that entity is a large taxpaying entity. The economy is informal enough that if you work for cash and get paid cash and its not big figures, no one is going to come looking for you, either. That includes retirement income, and any foreign wires. Wasn't stating having Americans around was a bonus, simply, that US expats seem to be making that decision, make of that what you will

mrlonglong 6y ago

All this is down to the steady drip drip effect that British mass media has on the population which has brought us to this situation. As a life long EU supporter I was dismayed by the results of the referendum and the recent general election. Even worse it broke my heart when the EU took action over its dismal failure to vaccinate their people as the UK had done rather well. This does not bode well for the future.

ggm 6y ago

Here's the text of a paywalled article from the times with better example info of how people get in this situation: not having health insurance for instance. Your 90 days are up, Europe tells holiday home Britons Charlie Devereux, Malaga | Tom Kington, Rome | Charles Bremner, Paris - Saturday March 27 2021, 12.01am GMT John Price and Elaine Wilson may have to abandon their home in Spain after their post-Brexit residency application was rejected. The couple were told that their claim failed because they had not bought private medical insurance before the end of last year, when the transition phase of Brexit ended. Wilson, 53, a former paramedic, was waiting for the all-clear on breast cancer before buying insurance and the couple had been advised that they had until March 31. Lawyers have told them that their appeal will probably fail. They are checking a Spanish government website daily to see if their appeal has been recorded. So far it has not, and they do not know if they will wake up on April 1 as illegal aliens. “We’re on tenterhooks,” Price, 51, said. “We don’t know if we face fines, a bad stamp in our passports and being banned from entering the Schengen area. A rock and a hard place springs to mind.” Britons across Europe are slipping into a post-Brexit limbo as red tape confounds their efforts to establish residency under new rules. In Italy Britons who have residency are being refused jobs, healthcare, bank accounts and car purchases despite those rights and services being guaranteed under the EU Withdrawal Agreement. In France like Price and Wilson in Spain, those living in their holiday homes since January 1 must leave the country by Thursday or face possible deportation and a ban on re-entering the country. April 1 marks the 90-day maximum that UK citizens are allowed to stay in any EU state within a six-month period without residence papers or a visa. Before Wilson’s illness the couple spent their time shuttling between Spain and Shropshire, were they manage properties and a bed and breakfast business. But she says the cancer both made up her mind that she wanted to settle in Spain but also to delay the permanent move to Spain in order to complete her treatment in the UK for the sake of continuity. In Spain thousands of Britons have rushed to legalise their status. Confusion and misinformation about the rules, which are interpreted differently in each region, has left many fearing that they will be ejected from a place they consider home. Spain’s byzantine bureaucracy has spawned a parallel business of administrators or gestores to help foreigners to interpret the requirements. When Jeff Lunn and his wife, Deborah, applied for residency in August using a gestor recommended by friends they expected few problems. Seven months later they are h awaiting an appeal decision after their initial application was rejected. The gestor had failed to include the terms and conditions for their medical insurance and the error has left them in limbo. They sold their home in Yorkshire and moved to a three-bedroom villa in Murcia. The Lunns, who voted leave in the EU referendum, have had to hand in their British driving licences but will not get Spanish ones unless their residency is approved. They say they “have invested a lot of money here in Spain”. Liza Hartley got her residency in December but her daughter, Anya, 12, did not. Hartley moved to Marbella to give Anya a bilingual education. She has been told her daughter’s application failed because of suspicions that she could have been kidnapped by her mother. The authorities need Hartley’s partner, Jimmy, who runs a construction business in Lancashire, to come to Spain and sign papers saying he gives consent. He cannot make it before the March 31 deadline because of Covid restrictions. Thousands more face becoming illegal aliens in Spain on Thursday. Many have been living under the radar to avoid paying taxes, Anne Hernández, the president of Brexpats, which advises Britons in Spain on how to navigate the bureaucracy Brexit has created, said. “Now it’s suddenly, ‘Oh, what am I going to do? I may become an illegal immigrant,’ ” she said. “The scariest thing is they think they’re going to do them for taxes. It’s come back to bite them.” Others have simply been stumped by the bureaucracy. Spain chose the simpler form of withdrawal agreement, the declaratory system, which in theory reduced the bureaucratic load compared with other EU countries. But paperwork that is needed includes a copy of every page of a passport, a work contract, private health insurance and title deeds or a rental contract. Britons also have to sit a driving test in Spanish if they did not swap their licence last year. That has been compounded by inconsistencies in the interpretation of the rules. “We have 17 autonomous regions in Spain and each one can interpret the rules differently,” Hernández said. “When you’re dealing with British who might not speak the language, they might be elderly, they get very confused and walk away totally upset thinking, ‘that’s it I’ve got to leave Spain’. Steven Jolly, 65, a retired teacher from Yorkshire who owns a home in Normandy, said other Britons were returning to the UK. “Some are in their seventies and find it too much. Things like having to get health insurance with pre-existing conditions.” Jeremy Morgan, a former QC who retired to Umbria and campaigns for Britons in Italy, said Italian officials were unaware that residents’ rights were protected under the Withdrawal Agreement. “We are often treated like third country migrants from outside the EU,” he said.

kyriakos 6y ago

What I noticed with British expats in my country they one of the most vocal group against anything local including government policy and culture. Something that I find extremely weird considering they chose to move here but at the same time it makes sense for them to vote for brexit.

rich_sasha 6y ago

But I thought they are expats, not immigrants, and certainly wouldn’t be illegal? Seriously, EU ganging up on poor Britain.