5 ms·

Chariots of steel: Barcelona's hidden army of scrap recyclers

26 points by vijayr02 6y ago

moonbug 6y ago
it's hardly hidden! It's obvious to all who see.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Indeed. I see them every day. If I have something interesting for them I'll hand it to them. Much rather they get some money out of it than throwing it in the bin and getting damaged before they find it. Like an appliance that I have to get rid of but might still work but is not worth selling. Things with scrap metal indeed. They're always friendly and grateful. I don't have much to throw out myself but at our local makerspace we do often have substantial stuff. I like them. I wish the government would support them more though. They're really being abused. As chatarreros they earn almost nothing, and as topmantas (street vendors selling fake handbags) they're often rounded up by the police and insulted by tourists. I'm pretty sure they get only peanuts from the people that import all these fake goods too. They're really at the bottom of the food chain. It's really sad. I wish I could do more for them, but I can't even vote here. I heard the mayor of Barcelona (Ada Colau) is really aware of their plight, but there is only so much she can do either. Most of the core issues are national formalities like residency.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
diggan 6y ago
> The waste belongs to the city, so collecting it is technically theft. “The city isn’t going to prosecute these people and most are prepared to turn a blind eye to their activities,” he says. Funny timing, as it seems the local government is starting to crack down on dumpster divers in the name of "collecting recycling data": https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-intelligents-que-identificaran-lusuari/noticia/3084882/ https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int... > For many, it is impossible to fulfil these conditions, and even if they get legal status, they have to register as self-employed and pay a statutory monthly “quota” of €300, regardless of income, which they do not earn enough to pay. This is also incorrect. Being self-employed does have a monthly quota but it only kicks in after I think 2 years (first 6 months gratis, second 6 months small fee, third 6 months bigger fee and so on), so you can get up and running relatively cheap. I do agree that it's bad they don't get properly paid for the good work they are doing though, Barcelona is better because of them in general. One could always hope there could be a solution that benefits all the parties involved, instead of just one side.
- mxxc 6y ago
  >Funny timing, as it seems the local government is starting to crack down on dumpster divers in the name of "collecting recycling data": https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int... ironic if this stuff will show up while paper metro tickets still reign supreme
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    T-Mobilitat is coming. Budgetary issues have slowed its implementation.
    - mxxc 6y ago
      i've heard that before ;)
- carlesfe 6y ago
  > Being self-employed does have a monthly quota but it only kicks in after I think 2 years (first 6 months gratis, second 6 months small fee, third 6 months bigger fee and so on), so you can get up and running relatively cheap. Nope, there are some exemptions, but if you want to run a business (even self-employed) in Spain, you need to pay 300€/month, even if you have zero revenue.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    You are both right; there is a ramp-up, but indeed you pay even if you're making nothing.
bserge 6y ago
This is a thing in Germany, too. People leave stuff by the kerbside, and a lot of these people collect whatever looks nice or simply take all of it, fix it and resell it, sell it to a recycling center or (sadly) dump it somewhere else. Highly doubt they're doing it the proper legal way, but it's extra cash in their pockets.
- joezydeco 6y ago
  This exists in the USA as well. The hunters know the trash pickup schedule, and a lot hunt on weekends as well. It's unwritten knowledge in my neighborhood that you separate and leave metal waste on the curb where the pickers can get it easily. You see the pickup trucks slowly combing the areas in the afternoons and evenings. I've also seen more resourceful ones refurbish what they can and sell items at flea markets and in parking lots. BBQ grills and bicycles are always in the flow, although the bike supply has dried up with COVID.
- baud147258 6y ago
  Where my parents live in France, there's a waste category 'encombrants', means cumbersome, that's like broken/unwanted furniture, metal waste that's collected Sunday evening/Monday morning. And so every Sunday afternoon we see people going through what's been left on the sidewalk, I guess to reuse or sell.
- nom 6y ago
  There is a whole network of people behind it. Where I live, trucks with polish numberplates reliably show up the day before Sperrmüll pickup. They somehow know the dates (which are not fixed!) and plan routes through germany accordingly. There's a german documentation on YT about it somewhere. Makes you think how much valuables we throw away, they pick up like half of the pile of what we call 'trash'.
the_gipsy 6y ago
To add some data: before the establishment of the recycling industry, scrap was traditionally collected by local gipsies. The rise of scrap prices made it attractive to "illegal" (paperless) immigrants.
yiyus 6y ago
I doubt these numbers are correct. Catalonia has a population of 7.5 million people and the article claims there are between 50000 and 100000 metal scrappers. That means around 1% (of course, since these are ilegal immigrants, they are not included in the official census, but there are also a lot of ilegal immigrants doing other things besides metal scrapping). 100 people does not generate enough steel scrap to keep a person busy for a long time. And let's not forget that a lot of metal parts are directly disposed by the citizens in the recycling centers ("puntos limpios"). The article did not mention that, giving the impression that the only way to get rid of a microwave, for example, is to leave it on the street hoping one of these scrappers find it.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  >"puntos limpios" They are called a "punt verd", green point, and they are all over, but they don't take scrap metal per se. They do take all manner of household waste which should not go to landfill, including small appliances, as well as clothing.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Yeah Barcelona is really great for these. In Holland we had to wait for a bus once every month or so, or drive to a central point miles outside of the city (big pain point if you rely on public transport for environmental reasons). And this was in a highly populated area in the periphery of Amsterdam. The punt verds are everywhere. There's one 200m from my house. In fact Barcelona does a great job at garbage collection. Bins are emptied every day (though often noisily at 3am :D ) and are free and everywhere with copious recycling options.

26 points by vijayr02 6y ago

moonbug 6y ago

it's hardly hidden! It's obvious to all who see.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
Indeed. I see them every day. If I have something interesting for them I'll hand it to them. Much rather they get some money out of it than throwing it in the bin and getting damaged before they find it. Like an appliance that I have to get rid of but might still work but is not worth selling. Things with scrap metal indeed. They're always friendly and grateful. I don't have much to throw out myself but at our local makerspace we do often have substantial stuff. I like them. I wish the government would support them more though. They're really being abused. As chatarreros they earn almost nothing, and as topmantas (street vendors selling fake handbags) they're often rounded up by the police and insulted by tourists. I'm pretty sure they get only peanuts from the people that import all these fake goods too. They're really at the bottom of the food chain. It's really sad. I wish I could do more for them, but I can't even vote here. I heard the mayor of Barcelona (Ada Colau) is really aware of their plight, but there is only so much she can do either. Most of the core issues are national formalities like residency.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

diggan 6y ago

> The waste belongs to the city, so collecting it is technically theft. “The city isn’t going to prosecute these people and most are prepared to turn a blind eye to their activities,” he says. Funny timing, as it seems the local government is starting to crack down on dumpster divers in the name of "collecting recycling data": https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-intelligents-que-identificaran-lusuari/noticia/3084882/ https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int... > For many, it is impossible to fulfil these conditions, and even if they get legal status, they have to register as self-employed and pay a statutory monthly “quota” of €300, regardless of income, which they do not earn enough to pay. This is also incorrect. Being self-employed does have a monthly quota but it only kicks in after I think 2 years (first 6 months gratis, second 6 months small fee, third 6 months bigger fee and so on), so you can get up and running relatively cheap. I do agree that it's bad they don't get properly paid for the good work they are doing though, Barcelona is better because of them in general. One could always hope there could be a solution that benefits all the parties involved, instead of just one side.

mxxc 6y ago
>Funny timing, as it seems the local government is starting to crack down on dumpster divers in the name of "collecting recycling data": https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int https://www.ccma.cat/324/barcelona-estrenara-contenidors-int... ironic if this stuff will show up while paper metro tickets still reign supreme
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  T-Mobilitat is coming. Budgetary issues have slowed its implementation.
  - mxxc 6y ago
    i've heard that before ;)
carlesfe 6y ago
> Being self-employed does have a monthly quota but it only kicks in after I think 2 years (first 6 months gratis, second 6 months small fee, third 6 months bigger fee and so on), so you can get up and running relatively cheap. Nope, there are some exemptions, but if you want to run a business (even self-employed) in Spain, you need to pay 300€/month, even if you have zero revenue.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  You are both right; there is a ramp-up, but indeed you pay even if you're making nothing.

bserge 6y ago

This is a thing in Germany, too. People leave stuff by the kerbside, and a lot of these people collect whatever looks nice or simply take all of it, fix it and resell it, sell it to a recycling center or (sadly) dump it somewhere else. Highly doubt they're doing it the proper legal way, but it's extra cash in their pockets.

joezydeco 6y ago
This exists in the USA as well. The hunters know the trash pickup schedule, and a lot hunt on weekends as well. It's unwritten knowledge in my neighborhood that you separate and leave metal waste on the curb where the pickers can get it easily. You see the pickup trucks slowly combing the areas in the afternoons and evenings. I've also seen more resourceful ones refurbish what they can and sell items at flea markets and in parking lots. BBQ grills and bicycles are always in the flow, although the bike supply has dried up with COVID.
baud147258 6y ago
Where my parents live in France, there's a waste category 'encombrants', means cumbersome, that's like broken/unwanted furniture, metal waste that's collected Sunday evening/Monday morning. And so every Sunday afternoon we see people going through what's been left on the sidewalk, I guess to reuse or sell.
nom 6y ago
There is a whole network of people behind it. Where I live, trucks with polish numberplates reliably show up the day before Sperrmüll pickup. They somehow know the dates (which are not fixed!) and plan routes through germany accordingly. There's a german documentation on YT about it somewhere. Makes you think how much valuables we throw away, they pick up like half of the pile of what we call 'trash'.

the_gipsy 6y ago

To add some data: before the establishment of the recycling industry, scrap was traditionally collected by local gipsies. The rise of scrap prices made it attractive to "illegal" (paperless) immigrants.

yiyus 6y ago

I doubt these numbers are correct. Catalonia has a population of 7.5 million people and the article claims there are between 50000 and 100000 metal scrappers. That means around 1% (of course, since these are ilegal immigrants, they are not included in the official census, but there are also a lot of ilegal immigrants doing other things besides metal scrapping). 100 people does not generate enough steel scrap to keep a person busy for a long time. And let's not forget that a lot of metal parts are directly disposed by the citizens in the recycling centers ("puntos limpios"). The article did not mention that, giving the impression that the only way to get rid of a microwave, for example, is to leave it on the street hoping one of these scrappers find it.

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
>"puntos limpios" They are called a "punt verd", green point, and they are all over, but they don't take scrap metal per se. They do take all manner of household waste which should not go to landfill, including small appliances, as well as clothing.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Yeah Barcelona is really great for these. In Holland we had to wait for a bus once every month or so, or drive to a central point miles outside of the city (big pain point if you rely on public transport for environmental reasons). And this was in a highly populated area in the periphery of Amsterdam. The punt verds are everywhere. There's one 200m from my house. In fact Barcelona does a great job at garbage collection. Bins are emptied every day (though often noisily at 3am :D ) and are free and everywhere with copious recycling options.