4 ms·

I think even all the "analog" stuff in modern cars uses chips. A modern engine wouldn't work without chips. LEDs won't work without chips. Automatic AC won't

by yarcob 6y ago

I think even all the "analog" stuff in modern cars uses chips. A modern engine wouldn't work without chips. LEDs won't work without chips. Automatic AC won't work without chips. ABS, ESP, etc. are all based on microcontrollers as well. Not even the speedometer needle is actually analog anymore, it's all digital now.

lostlogin 6y ago
> ESP, etc. I tried to parse this for way too long. The ESP32 and ESP8266 are chips themselves. I need to raise my head out the weeds.
paganel 6y ago
> Not even the speedometer needle is actually analog anymore, it's all digital now. And that's a petty.
- MertsA 6y ago
  On the contrary, my first car still had an analog speedometer. It really sucked when it failed because the failure mode was that it turned decidedly non-linear past about 50 mph indicated. The first time I drove it after the failure I hadn't driven it in probably a couple months and I was driving it at night without any traffic around. I wound up getting pulled over on the highway and the indicated speed was off by 15 mph. At least with a digital speedometer almost every failure mode is going to be obvious and not some subtle accuracy degradation. Part of the supposed rationale for police almost always not enforcing the speed limit until a good margin over is because of the historic inaccuracies of speedometers. Nowadays assuming someone hasn't modified some gear ratio or fitted the wrong size tires you can more or less be assured that the speedometer will be quite accurate.
  - paganel 6y ago
    On my manual transmission car you can pretty reasonably guess your current speed based on the gear you’re in and on the engine sound, at least I can do that from 0 to approximately 80-90 km/h (after which everything becomes too noisy, I need the speedometer). Failing that one can always follow the flow of traffic in order to remain on the safe side of the law.
  - NullPrefix 6y ago
    >At least with a digital speedometer almost every failure mode is going to be obvious and not some subtle accuracy degradation. What makes you think that? Bit flips aren't always obvious.
ptero 6y ago
Sure, but I suspect reducing unnecessary automation will lead to using noticeably fewer chips. People have different preferences, but I think many, like me, would prefer a simple heater on/off and a linear stronger/weaker selection over a full climate control that auto-selects whether to run a heater or an AC and how much. My 2c.
- HPsquared 6y ago
  If chips are super scarce, that might be where we're headed.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Call it SoC, or CoC?
- alexhutcheson 6y ago
  The lowest trim lines of many cars still have exactly what you’re describing.
vbezhenar 6y ago
For me only the engine is essential. I don't care about LEDs, AC, ABS, ESP or whatever. All I need is moving wheels, steering wheel (not necessary with amplifier), brakes (don't care about ABS). Heater at winter. Everything else is optional and can break. All I care about is to get to home alive when I need to ride 300 km without a single car around me. Whether my cars works or not might be live or death. Though I don't think that chips are root of all evil. You can easily have analog systems failing. I think that engine chips just should be very reliable, may be even duplicated. We have vehicles on Mars, surely we could get reliable vehicles on Earth. And, of course, I don't care about reliability of those second-class systems. They're not essential and car works without them. They could be made with chip or whatever, it does not really matter.
- est 6y ago
  > For me only the engine is essential Modern engines heavily utilize chips. Solenoid valves everywhere. Also your steering, brakes would need some sort of chip.
  - joezydeco 6y ago
    Going back to carburetors, vacuum lines, and choke valves? I can't even imagine what that would do to air quality around us. If you remember cars in the 1970s, it was awful.
    - ahepp 6y ago
      I think it would be cool if I could use my laptop to adjust EFI like I can on a carb. (without having to crack the ECU or whatever)
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        I've never seen an ECU you couldn't tune with a laptop. It's a hell of a lot easier to dial in a modern engine than it was when you had to try to find the best combination of jets, needles, and springs.
petra 6y ago
Sure, but digital electronics are programmable and it's also possible to use programmable analog stuff for many things. So it's certainly possible to use a few standard electronic parts, with 2nd,3rd sources to implement most of the electronics, and be easily protected from supply disruptions.

by yarcob 6y ago

lostlogin 6y ago

> ESP, etc. I tried to parse this for way too long. The ESP32 and ESP8266 are chips themselves. I need to raise my head out the weeds.

paganel 6y ago

> Not even the speedometer needle is actually analog anymore, it's all digital now. And that's a petty.

MertsA 6y ago
On the contrary, my first car still had an analog speedometer. It really sucked when it failed because the failure mode was that it turned decidedly non-linear past about 50 mph indicated. The first time I drove it after the failure I hadn't driven it in probably a couple months and I was driving it at night without any traffic around. I wound up getting pulled over on the highway and the indicated speed was off by 15 mph. At least with a digital speedometer almost every failure mode is going to be obvious and not some subtle accuracy degradation. Part of the supposed rationale for police almost always not enforcing the speed limit until a good margin over is because of the historic inaccuracies of speedometers. Nowadays assuming someone hasn't modified some gear ratio or fitted the wrong size tires you can more or less be assured that the speedometer will be quite accurate.
- paganel 6y ago
  On my manual transmission car you can pretty reasonably guess your current speed based on the gear you’re in and on the engine sound, at least I can do that from 0 to approximately 80-90 km/h (after which everything becomes too noisy, I need the speedometer). Failing that one can always follow the flow of traffic in order to remain on the safe side of the law.
- NullPrefix 6y ago
  >At least with a digital speedometer almost every failure mode is going to be obvious and not some subtle accuracy degradation. What makes you think that? Bit flips aren't always obvious.

ptero 6y ago

Sure, but I suspect reducing unnecessary automation will lead to using noticeably fewer chips. People have different preferences, but I think many, like me, would prefer a simple heater on/off and a linear stronger/weaker selection over a full climate control that auto-selects whether to run a heater or an AC and how much. My 2c.

HPsquared 6y ago
If chips are super scarce, that might be where we're headed.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Call it SoC, or CoC?
alexhutcheson 6y ago
The lowest trim lines of many cars still have exactly what you’re describing.

vbezhenar 6y ago

For me only the engine is essential. I don't care about LEDs, AC, ABS, ESP or whatever. All I need is moving wheels, steering wheel (not necessary with amplifier), brakes (don't care about ABS). Heater at winter. Everything else is optional and can break. All I care about is to get to home alive when I need to ride 300 km without a single car around me. Whether my cars works or not might be live or death. Though I don't think that chips are root of all evil. You can easily have analog systems failing. I think that engine chips just should be very reliable, may be even duplicated. We have vehicles on Mars, surely we could get reliable vehicles on Earth. And, of course, I don't care about reliability of those second-class systems. They're not essential and car works without them. They could be made with chip or whatever, it does not really matter.

est 6y ago
> For me only the engine is essential Modern engines heavily utilize chips. Solenoid valves everywhere. Also your steering, brakes would need some sort of chip.
- joezydeco 6y ago
  Going back to carburetors, vacuum lines, and choke valves? I can't even imagine what that would do to air quality around us. If you remember cars in the 1970s, it was awful.
  - ahepp 6y ago
    I think it would be cool if I could use my laptop to adjust EFI like I can on a carb. (without having to crack the ECU or whatever)
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      I've never seen an ECU you couldn't tune with a laptop. It's a hell of a lot easier to dial in a modern engine than it was when you had to try to find the best combination of jets, needles, and springs.

petra 6y ago

Sure, but digital electronics are programmable and it's also possible to use programmable analog stuff for many things. So it's certainly possible to use a few standard electronic parts, with 2nd,3rd sources to implement most of the electronics, and be easily protected from supply disruptions.