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Tesla orders its first 8k-ton Cybertruck casting machine
- fock 6y agothis kind of stuff has been around some time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program - but in a financializing economy like the US probably every kind of building something physical is awe-inducing.
- elcritch 6y agoThose were presses, but this appears to be a casting machine. Slightly different.
- Judgmentality 6y agoI don't think they are, although I'm happy to be corrected if mistaken. It seems to me it's just a poorly named machine. How is this different from a press?
- ainiriand 6y agoThe main difference is that in a press you have a sheet of metal that you shape in some way and in a casting machine you get molten metal in which you apply force to generate a shape.
- Judgmentality 6y agoRight, I understand the difference between casting and pressing. But the article frequently says "Giga Press" instead of "Giga Cast," I think they're actually referring to pressing machines and it's just not a very well researched article. There is nothing that mentions molten metal being used, and it regularly references previous pressing machines which did not take in molten metal. Again, I'm happy to be wrong here, but I'm not seeing the evidence of this being a casting machine. And I'm seeing a lot of circumstantial evidence that is indeed a press.
- nickik 6y agoThis is just bad naming by the company (and or Tesla). This is 100% sure a molten aluminum die casting machine. This company already makes such machines for Tesla and this is the newest one. You can find videos of machines like that being assembled right now in Berlin and Austin. And you can find videos of it working in Fremont and Shanghai. This video Tesla battery day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQfKZ5lo9dc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQfKZ5lo9dc That they have order an even bigger one has been part of investor calls and presentation. Here you see it assembled in Austin: https://youtu.be/02KR9sb5P6E?t=687 https://youtu.be/02KR9sb5P6E?t=687 You can see that it is vertical, a stamping machine stamps horizontally.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- baybal2 6y ago> This is 100% sure a molten aluminum die casting machine. May well be semi-solid rather than just injection casting given them bragging about "alloy not needing heat treatment"
- pengaru 6y agoIt's clearly performing a casting process, just watch one of the videos. Maybe they're calling it a press because the molten metal is being rammed into the mold under pressure vs. gravity. I agree that there's poor naming at play here muddying the waters.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chiph 6y agoA press typically works with room temperature metal, or metal hot enough to be slightly soft. The blank is placed inside, and the press comes down and crushes it into the shape dictated by the mold. Excess metal is sometimes cut off by sharp edges on the mold. A die casting process starts with molten metal, and the metal is injected under pressure to fill the die cavity. The mold is separated and the new part is removed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSyBsdJkQu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSyBsdJkQu8 After die casting and the part cools, a press may be used to trim any excess off.
- baybal2 6y agoInjection casting is quite a bit newer than gravity casting, which dominated the industry until 197x-198x. Gravity casting had problem with voids, and fine features, but otherwise much more economical. Injection, or semisolid casting is much more expensive, both because of more expensive machinery, and mold expense.
- chiph 6y agoGravity casting using sand molds were, like you said, just how you did it until that time. Dad had an early 90's Saturn SL, and it's engine used the lost-foam casting process. You could see the surface texture in the metal from where the polystyrene had expanded when it was made. Sand molds weren't able to show a feature that fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_I4_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_I4_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-foam_casting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-foam_casting
- baybal2 6y agoEngine blocks are still sand cast, and there is not much need to use anything else for their production if you can nail the fluid dynamics in the mold. Only very small scooter engines I know are mold/semisold cast, everything else I know is gravity cast.
- alecco 6y agoThe Machine Thinking channel has a very interesting video on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgK51w6uhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgK51w6uhk I wonder if these modern high pressure casting produce results closer to forging.
- junippor 6y agoWait..... they're actually making these? I thought it was a joke...
- Daho0n 6y agoIt is a joke and they are making them.
- vb6sp6 6y agocan't wait for mine
- xeromal 6y agoYou and me both dawg. Hopefully beginning next year!
- junippor 6y agoCan you explain to me why someone would want to buy such an ugly car? Is it just elon fanboyism, or is there more to it? Probably there's more to it and I'm out of the loop :D
- xeromal 6y agoIt definitely looks wild but it's pretty capable as a truck. 15,000 lb towing capacity, 35" tires for clearance, 35 degree approach angle, and adjustable suspension.
- CynicusRex 6y agoElon Musk's very own Spruce Goose.
- rektide 6y agoIt is absolutely jaw dropping to me watching that Model Y front-frame come out of that 6k-ton casting machine[1]. Incredible. Had not seen that before. What a potentially incredibly efficient use of materials & process, to produce a large well constructed, integrated piece. I do have one reservation, which is that this feels a bit like the creation of a dispose-only car. Trying to bend this unibody back into shape seems like it's going to be incredibly difficult. I'm trying to imagine how if at all we're going to fix a cybertruck, after it slides into a tree or pole. I was so delighted to see the Model Y front-unibody come out of that press, but a second latter, I was shocked, mouth open aghast, trying to imagine these cars as anything other than disposable. Like the NAND situation on Teslas, there's so much amazing high tech wonders afoot here. But vehicles, over the generations, have had to learn that maintainability, repairability, and sustainability are real factors too: there's many years of engineering that have gone into not just making cars, but making them able to be kept running. I know Tesla's not the only one doing unibody work, that this isn't entirely 100% a novel problem, but I'm still a bit jarred, a bit worried, that we're creating a truck- a vehicle format known for getting beat up a bit- that might not be repairable. [1] https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1357503277722718212 https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1357503277722718212
- extrapickles 6y agoThe alloys used in most modern cars work harden too much to be able to bend them back into shape trivially. Ideally, they would sell you a new front/rear casting and recycle the bent old one. I don't see this happening though as they have more motivation to hide behind "unseen damage" to sell you a new car.
- karlkatzke 6y agoThe same argument was made regarding moving from frame-on-body cars to unibody cars in the first place. It turned out that the weight and assembly savings and the increase in crash safety far outweighed the costs and risks, and that metal is pretty recyclable, so you just end up salvaging the parts you can and junking the rest.
- baybal2 6y ago> What a potentially incredibly efficient use of materials Actually no, casting requires more material for equal strength, and you loose materials in voids. But given Tesla's pricetag, and already huge weight, it might make sense. Even most poorly designed aluminium part is likely to be lighter than steel at least by a tiny bit. It is also not that much faster, as manufacturing from steel is automated so much these days, and cast parts needs further finishing. And, MAYBE, having a huge casting machine, and some finishing is cheaper for Tesla than going with bigger metalworking line with their current scale.
- api 6y agoI feel like this might be the Elon-style reaction to Tesla's perennial body panel alignment problems: "fuck body panels, make it a single die." That is one thing I admire about how Elon thinks. Don't solve problems. Make them go away by simplifying the design.
- rektide 6y agoBody panels can be replaced. I'm worried that this advancement means it is cars which must be replaced.
- phkahler 6y agoStainless steel can be cut and welded. Somebody will be around to repair them.
- api 6y agoThere are a lot of people who know how to work with steel. One of the things I love about the steel Starship is field serviceability. I imagine you could repair it off-world with some fairly normal tools (albeit different versions of them designed for use in a vacuum). Carbon fiber not so much.
- alacombe 6y ago> Stainless steel can be cut and welded. Not easily, stainless is very finicky requiring proper shielding of the heat affected zone.
- ben_bai 6y agoThen this is a must watch. Elon talks to Munro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAtLTLiqNwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAtLTLiqNwg
- bmitc 6y agoI think it goes more like: Don’t solve problems, just make new ones.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- lvice 6y agoImpressive machine. As an Italian, I am pleased to see that the casting machine for Tesla is supplied by an Italian company. Living in Italy, sometimes it's hard to see why the country is still in the top 10 economies in the world, due to the fact we lack mega-corps and global consumer brands (luxury aside). The truth is that Italy is all-in on small businesses, with thousands on niches companies that fill a very specific spot in the world supply chain. I really hope that this model proves to be sustainable and we can find a path to growth again at some point.
- arkitaip 6y agoEU has a total lack of vision when it comes to in-region manufacturing. Imagine if the Union decided that 50% of all goods would have to be made in the Union within 20 years...
- zodiakzz 6y agoBut sadly: Imagine the fuel it will give to the Euroseptics because of any (short term) inconvenience. Then EU ceases to exist.. task failed successfully.
- drnex 6y agoThe freedom to purchase goods regardless of where they are made is better for consumers, and everyone are consumers.
- arkitaip 6y agoI would say this is one of the great myths of globalization and that we should offers consumers plenty of competitive offers from the EU primarily.
- luckylion 6y agoHow do you make companies competitive? If you just shower them with money, you often get the opposite result: they can't compete because they rely on subsidies and don't need to compete on the market. If you then force (or "heavily encourage" with tariffs etc) other companies to "buy local", you're hurting those other companies by having them buy the product that's unable to compete.
- DoingIsLearning 6y agoAs a concept the cybertruck looks really really cool. However, it's pretty scary if this is the final design. > The body of the Cybertruck is a unibody shell The profile is full of sharp edges at torso/head level for pedestrians. The shell concept sounds like it would have nothing in the way of planned deformations zones for outside pedestrians or crumple zones for inside passengers. Again perhaps this is just marketing bad ass looks and they will sanitize the final release but pretty scary if not.
- ChrisClark 6y agoConsidering the very top safest vehicles are all Teslas, I don't think they skipped safety on this one.
- wskinner 6y agoGP is talking about safety for pedestrians, not safety for passengers. Is Tesla the safest vehicle for pedestrians who are accidentally struck?
- arghwhat 6y agoI'd imagine that would be something like the V40 with its pedestrian airbags that pop up under the hood.
- Daho0n 6y agoThere's not a single Tesla in the safest cars tested by EuroNCAP. There were, in 2019, but even the small Toyota Yaris scores higher today. Remember a score of X in 2019 is way less than a score of X in 2021. The tests are harder to pass now.
- wilg 6y agoThis is a bit confusing, it doesn't seem like there are any tests of Teslas at all after 2019. (https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/safest-family-cars/#?selectedMake=7315&selectedMakeName=Tesla&selectedModel=0&selectedStar=&includeFullSafetyPackage=true&includeStandardSafetyPackage=true&selectedModelName=All&selectedProtocols=41776,40302,34803,30636,26061,24370,-1&selectedClasses=1202,1199,1201,1196,1203,1198,1179,40250,1197,1204&allClasses=false&allProtocols=true&allDriverAssistanceTechnologies=false&selectedDriverAssistanceTechnologies=&thirdRowFitment=false https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/safest-family-ca...) and the Teslas are the best in 3 of 8 classes in the 2019 "Best in Class" cars list on their website, which is the most recent year available. It does seem there were changes to the tests in 2020, but not 2021, and they say "2020 assessments differ significantly from previous years and star ratings should not be directly compared with those from earlier years." So IDK, your comment seems misleading?
- chiph 6y agoAn Antonov AN-124 just landed this week at ABIA with parts for the Tesla factory. They are apparently from Tiancheng Coating, who makes robotic coating systems for the automotive industry. https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/m8opqh/fun_time_working_on_the_antonov_an124/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/m8opqh/fun_time_wor...
- thefourthchime 6y agoTwo of them landed actually. The Austin subreddit has lots of cool photos.
- pmcollins 6y agoABIA == Austin–Bergstrom International Airport
- hnburnsy 6y agoWhy not AUS or KAUS? Do locals call it ABIA?
- sbierwagen 6y agoThe list of perplexing airport IATA codes is miles long. Most famously, Toronto Pearson International is YYZ. (All Canadian airports start with Y)
- bellyfullofbac 6y agoI learned yesterday that St. Petersburg (Russia) airport is LED, which are letters found in its old name: Leningrad.
- edub 6y agoABIA is the abbreviation/acronym of the proper name of Austin's airport, Austin–Bergstrom International Airport, but the IATA code actually is AUS. When I search for a flight, I use AUS as the search term, when I search for the airport on Google Maps I use ABIA, and when I send an informal email and abbreviate Austin is write ATX. The previous Austin airport (Mueller, closed 1999, now a planned community) also had an IATA code of AUS. They did a single day cutover from the old to new airport, so they were never both in commercial use at the same time (Bergstrom was an Air Force base for similar years as Mueller).
- new_realist 6y agoGiga -> Wanka
- Animats 6y agoIt's interesting that Tesla chose to injection-cast the frame, rather than stamping it. All major automotive manufacturers have giant stamping machines (Ford has one that's 121 feet long) but injection-casting is rare. Here's the Ford F-150 assembly line.[1] One truck every 53 seconds from this line. It's mostly aluminum, unlike the older steel models but like Tesla. Mild hybrid now, full electric in 2023. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze4MZbyLnm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze4MZbyLnm8
- kazen44 6y agoalso, doesn't injection-casting cost vastly more power? I assume for injection-casting the steel needs to be molten to be injected into the casting? Doesn't this greatly increase their production time because the frames need to cool before they can be handled. Stamping is populair because it is very fast, has minimal waste and is a procedure with very little variables.
- hristov 6y agoIt is not that clear cut. Stamping requires softer steel which can be bent in those stamping machines. However, softer steel kind of goes against the purpose of of the body parts in the car. If you use softer steel you need more of it to ensure it carries the weight of the car and handles the stress the car is expected to take without deformation. Existing cars and trucks probably carry a lot of extra weight just so that they can use that soft bendable steel. There is another benefit to softer steel in that it absorbs vibrations. But this is less relevant for electric cars, because there are no vibrations form an ICE. Furthermore, stainless steel is too hard to be used for stamping machines, so if you use stamping you have to worry about rust. So it is very possible that the Tesla engineers did the math and figured out that if the body did not need to absorb engine vibrations, they could save a lot of weight and ultimately energy if they used casting.
- chmod600 6y agoCan't you heat the stainless steel enough for stamping but way below the melting point?
- naarutokill17 6y agoSorry, your account is too new to submit this site
- WalterBright 6y agoShould be an 8000 ton forging machine! Woo-hoo!