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I have no idea why but the EU/Brexit is one subject where HN comment quality falls apart. I would have assumed most people here are Americans, so not really em

I have no idea why but the EU/Brexit is one subject where HN comment quality falls apart. I would have assumed most people here are Americans, so not really emotionally invested in their 'side'. But this comment section is full of Twitter hot take type stuff.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
The same thing happened with Trump, and American flashpoint politics more generally. Note that it's morning in Europe, and as such there will be lots of British/European people around, for whom Brexit is a bigger deal.
bb123 6y ago
I think given the timezone difference, most people on here this time of day are probably in the UK/Europe. I guess the emotive nature of the subject is showing through.
brmgb 6y ago
To be honest, there is little emotional investment in Europe regarding Brexit. People wanted to be done with it as the process was wasting valuable union time and there was a feeling it was needlessly draging on but from what I have seen Europeans actually care very little about the UK. Brexit mostly was and remains a domestic issue which is why it's such a touchy subject on HN where there is probably a significant number of Britons commenting.
- avian 6y ago
  > there is little emotional investment in Europe regarding Brexit As someone from the continental Europe, this is not at all my experience, but I'm sure this depends on the specific social bubble I'm in. There are plenty of people around that had their lives complicated because of it, enough that most people I know have very strong feelings about it.
  - orwin 6y ago
    In my rural/coastal bubble, people seems to believe than UK homeowners will suddenly have to sell their properties and that prices will drop, and are pretty much happy about brexit. I know it won't happen, but hey, at least its cheap joy and hope. But mostly, no one cares.
monkey_monkey 6y ago
I hope you realise you're also describing your contribution to this debate.
- carmen_sandiego 6y ago
  I don't. I think I've noted some egregious comments and posted opinions, yes, but my complaint isn't about people having opinions. It's about, for example, the top level comment being gleeful about the sky falling without really having any valuable content. Or another which lazily dismisses this as corruption with no further engagement needed. "I think it's hilarious that Britain will fail. Who agrees?" is not really what I consider a good seed comment. It's fine to think Britain will fail, but at least provide something for people to discuss with you.
  - monkey_monkey 6y ago
    Using quotes to paraphrase your own interpretation of what OP posted (and then ignoring the last sentence which had more meat) is exactly the kind of low value comment you're talking about.
    - thu2111 6y ago
      No, his post is on-point and worthy of discussion, or meta-discussion if you like. HN comments on anything EU or Brexit related during the morning/early afternoon CET, i.e. before America wakes up, show the ugly truth underlying EU ideology. The comments are filled with spite, anger, hatred and anti-British, anti-capitalist sentiment. This reflects the type of discourse that has been routine in the media and politics of EU member states over the past five years. I do believe that one of the major reasons the UK voted to leave was the realisation that other European countries were not in fact friendly allies as the Remain campaign tried to portray, but rather arrogant and complacent takers that saw the UK as a resource to be exploited and abused. Whilst in public EU leadership tried to stay on message, way too often the mask slipped and the truth was revealed. Examples: French ex-President Francois Hollande on Brexit: "There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price [for leaving]" EU negotiators when they thought the UK would accept the previous withdrawal agreement: "We got rid of them [the British]. We kicked them out. We finally turned them into a colony, and that was our plan from the first moment" Guy Verhofstadt: "The world order of tomorrow is not a world order based on nation states or countries. It’s a world order that is based on empires" An anonymous German ambassador: "There is no shortage of acrimony. I don’t think there will be any circumstances under which there will be anything other than a Brexit cold war." And their demands during the negotiations were of similar spirit. Sadly these attitudes are not merely confined to the hallways of EU institutions - it is worse, it appears to be endemic amongst the population. It is a totalitarian attitude: bend the knee to the mighty group. Give in completely, or we will crush you into submission. Americans may find it shocking but it's no surprise to those of us who have lived through it directly. The good news is that now the UK is out and the Rejoin campaign has died in its crib due to the EU's vaccine disaster, EU ideology will gradually fade away there with time, as it did in other countries that opted not to join at all.
ploika 6y ago
I actually think it's because so many people here are Americans that the hot takes on the EU don't fall foul of the "no political battles" rule as often as they should.
hackeraccount 6y ago
Foreigners and foreign countries can be proxies for domestic arguments. My favorite example is how the ancient Romans would talk about the non-Roman "barbarians." It might be they described them as they were but it's more likely they used them to make a point about what was wrong with their contemporary Roman society. The barbarians are good, loyal and brave. They don't spend their time with cultural frivolities like theater, bathing and running a shop.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
lucideer 6y ago
> I would have assumed most people here are Americans, so not really emotionally invested in their 'side' Similar to how broadly views on Trump outside of the US tended to be similar, when people have some distance from a debate they do tend to fall down on one "side". I presume by "Twitter hot take" you just mean "takes I personally disagree with", right?

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

The same thing happened with Trump, and American flashpoint politics more generally. Note that it's morning in Europe, and as such there will be lots of British/European people around, for whom Brexit is a bigger deal.

bb123 6y ago

I think given the timezone difference, most people on here this time of day are probably in the UK/Europe. I guess the emotive nature of the subject is showing through.

brmgb 6y ago

To be honest, there is little emotional investment in Europe regarding Brexit. People wanted to be done with it as the process was wasting valuable union time and there was a feeling it was needlessly draging on but from what I have seen Europeans actually care very little about the UK. Brexit mostly was and remains a domestic issue which is why it's such a touchy subject on HN where there is probably a significant number of Britons commenting.

avian 6y ago
> there is little emotional investment in Europe regarding Brexit As someone from the continental Europe, this is not at all my experience, but I'm sure this depends on the specific social bubble I'm in. There are plenty of people around that had their lives complicated because of it, enough that most people I know have very strong feelings about it.
- orwin 6y ago
  In my rural/coastal bubble, people seems to believe than UK homeowners will suddenly have to sell their properties and that prices will drop, and are pretty much happy about brexit. I know it won't happen, but hey, at least its cheap joy and hope. But mostly, no one cares.

monkey_monkey 6y ago

I hope you realise you're also describing your contribution to this debate.

carmen_sandiego 6y ago
I don't. I think I've noted some egregious comments and posted opinions, yes, but my complaint isn't about people having opinions. It's about, for example, the top level comment being gleeful about the sky falling without really having any valuable content. Or another which lazily dismisses this as corruption with no further engagement needed. "I think it's hilarious that Britain will fail. Who agrees?" is not really what I consider a good seed comment. It's fine to think Britain will fail, but at least provide something for people to discuss with you.
- monkey_monkey 6y ago
  Using quotes to paraphrase your own interpretation of what OP posted (and then ignoring the last sentence which had more meat) is exactly the kind of low value comment you're talking about.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    No, his post is on-point and worthy of discussion, or meta-discussion if you like. HN comments on anything EU or Brexit related during the morning/early afternoon CET, i.e. before America wakes up, show the ugly truth underlying EU ideology. The comments are filled with spite, anger, hatred and anti-British, anti-capitalist sentiment. This reflects the type of discourse that has been routine in the media and politics of EU member states over the past five years. I do believe that one of the major reasons the UK voted to leave was the realisation that other European countries were not in fact friendly allies as the Remain campaign tried to portray, but rather arrogant and complacent takers that saw the UK as a resource to be exploited and abused. Whilst in public EU leadership tried to stay on message, way too often the mask slipped and the truth was revealed. Examples: French ex-President Francois Hollande on Brexit: "There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price [for leaving]" EU negotiators when they thought the UK would accept the previous withdrawal agreement: "We got rid of them [the British]. We kicked them out. We finally turned them into a colony, and that was our plan from the first moment" Guy Verhofstadt: "The world order of tomorrow is not a world order based on nation states or countries. It’s a world order that is based on empires" An anonymous German ambassador: "There is no shortage of acrimony. I don’t think there will be any circumstances under which there will be anything other than a Brexit cold war." And their demands during the negotiations were of similar spirit. Sadly these attitudes are not merely confined to the hallways of EU institutions - it is worse, it appears to be endemic amongst the population. It is a totalitarian attitude: bend the knee to the mighty group. Give in completely, or we will crush you into submission. Americans may find it shocking but it's no surprise to those of us who have lived through it directly. The good news is that now the UK is out and the Rejoin campaign has died in its crib due to the EU's vaccine disaster, EU ideology will gradually fade away there with time, as it did in other countries that opted not to join at all.

ploika 6y ago

I actually think it's because so many people here are Americans that the hot takes on the EU don't fall foul of the "no political battles" rule as often as they should.

hackeraccount 6y ago

Foreigners and foreign countries can be proxies for domestic arguments. My favorite example is how the ancient Romans would talk about the non-Roman "barbarians." It might be they described them as they were but it's more likely they used them to make a point about what was wrong with their contemporary Roman society. The barbarians are good, loyal and brave. They don't spend their time with cultural frivolities like theater, bathing and running a shop.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lucideer 6y ago

> I would have assumed most people here are Americans, so not really emotionally invested in their 'side' Similar to how broadly views on Trump outside of the US tended to be similar, when people have some distance from a debate they do tend to fall down on one "side". I presume by "Twitter hot take" you just mean "takes I personally disagree with", right?