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I'm 24 and voted for brexit. In fact I campaigned for it and would do so again. It's really a very poor form to resort to the "dumb old racists voted for brexit

I'm 24 and voted for brexit. In fact I campaigned for it and would do so again. It's really a very poor form to resort to the "dumb old racists voted for brexit hurr".

matthewmacleod 6y ago
I think the fact that dumb old racists voted for Brexit doesn’t preclude that dumb young people also voted for it. They’re probably less racist though.
Chris2048 6y ago
This isn't the racist angle, It's the angle where the "consequences" are the only worthy consideration.
Eszik 6y ago
I mean, 73% of the 18-24 and 62% of the 25-34 voted remain, whereas 60% of the 55+ voted leave. Statistically, it's a pretty valid point.
- callamdelaney 6y ago
  73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason?
  - Eszik 6y ago
    > 73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? I haven't done the math, so I won't make assumptions, but I would bet the percentages from the polls roughly match up with the actual results from the referendum > Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason? That's an entirely different point, you're just moving the goalposts now. The question isn't whether young people were justified in voting remain, the question is did they vote remain.
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I really don't want dive into these discussions, the "dumb old racist" argument is your own and not in any of my comment. Your own example is a single datapoint and according to the vote statistics you are a de facto minority in your age cohort.[0] [0] https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu-referendum-brexit-demographics-age-education-party-london-final-results/ https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu...
SirHound 6y ago
So we know you're young.
tubularhells 6y ago
I have two sincere questions. What were your reasons behind your decision? What economic class are your parents in?
gmac 6y ago
OK, so the problem is that I find it basically impossible to understand how a well-informed and rational person could come to the conclusions you've come to. The EU isn't perfect, but you'll struggle to argue that it hasn't expanded peace, prosperity and human rights across the continent. This is motherhood-and-apple-pie stuff. Arguments in favour of Brexit thus tend to boil down to immigration and 'sovereignty'. There's a consensus amongst economists that immigration makes us financially better off. That makes it hard not to ascribe a strong desire to cut immigration to a powerful desire for ethnic homogeneity and/or a powerful dislike of foreigners. Those things are very close to racism. Meanwhile, the 'sovereignty' Brexit delivers is almost wholly illusory. In practice, we'll get to choose which of the big players to take the rules from. That's going to be either the US (which hardly anybody actually wants — most Brits value our health service, non-toxic food and drinking water, holiday pay, and so on — and also isn't very helpful, because the US is far away) or the EU (whose decisions we used to play an outsized role in, but no longer have any influence over). It would be hilarious — if it weren't tragic and a little terrifying — that the ones in charge of 'taking back control' are also the ones stifling parliament, suppressing voting, and attacking academics, judges and the rule of law. As far as I can see, the only ones taking back control are the rulers, and the only ones they're taking back control from are the other citizens of the UK.
- aembleton 6y ago
  > that the ones in charge of 'taking back control' are also the ones stifling parliament, suppressing voting, and attacking academics, judges and the rule of law. Do you really want them to have an influence across the whole of the EU? By leaving, our dysfunctional politicians lose influence which will help with the peace and human rights that you mentioned earlier.
  - gmac 6y ago
    I'm in the UK, so you got me: it seems I take a somewhat self-interested view on human rights! More seriously, though, the UK used to be a major world advocate for human rights, so UK human rights going down the pan probably isn't great for human rights worldwide. Peace takes two sides, so it's hard to argue that having your dysfunctional politicians run unchecked isn't going to lead to worse outcomes across the board. Edit: maybe you were joking? Ha ha.

I'm 24 and voted for brexit. In fact I campaigned for it and would do so again. It's really a very poor form to resort to the "dumb old racists voted for brexit hurr".

matthewmacleod 6y ago

I think the fact that dumb old racists voted for Brexit doesn’t preclude that dumb young people also voted for it. They’re probably less racist though.

Chris2048 6y ago

This isn't the racist angle, It's the angle where the "consequences" are the only worthy consideration.

Eszik 6y ago

I mean, 73% of the 18-24 and 62% of the 25-34 voted remain, whereas 60% of the 55+ voted leave. Statistically, it's a pretty valid point.

callamdelaney 6y ago
73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason?
- Eszik 6y ago
  > 73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? I haven't done the math, so I won't make assumptions, but I would bet the percentages from the polls roughly match up with the actual results from the referendum > Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason? That's an entirely different point, you're just moving the goalposts now. The question isn't whether young people were justified in voting remain, the question is did they vote remain.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago

I really don't want dive into these discussions, the "dumb old racist" argument is your own and not in any of my comment. Your own example is a single datapoint and according to the vote statistics you are a de facto minority in your age cohort.[0] [0] https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu-referendum-brexit-demographics-age-education-party-london-final-results/ https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu...

SirHound 6y ago

So we know you're young.

tubularhells 6y ago

I have two sincere questions. What were your reasons behind your decision? What economic class are your parents in?

gmac 6y ago

OK, so the problem is that I find it basically impossible to understand how a well-informed and rational person could come to the conclusions you've come to. The EU isn't perfect, but you'll struggle to argue that it hasn't expanded peace, prosperity and human rights across the continent. This is motherhood-and-apple-pie stuff. Arguments in favour of Brexit thus tend to boil down to immigration and 'sovereignty'. There's a consensus amongst economists that immigration makes us financially better off. That makes it hard not to ascribe a strong desire to cut immigration to a powerful desire for ethnic homogeneity and/or a powerful dislike of foreigners. Those things are very close to racism. Meanwhile, the 'sovereignty' Brexit delivers is almost wholly illusory. In practice, we'll get to choose which of the big players to take the rules from. That's going to be either the US (which hardly anybody actually wants — most Brits value our health service, non-toxic food and drinking water, holiday pay, and so on — and also isn't very helpful, because the US is far away) or the EU (whose decisions we used to play an outsized role in, but no longer have any influence over). It would be hilarious — if it weren't tragic and a little terrifying — that the ones in charge of 'taking back control' are also the ones stifling parliament, suppressing voting, and attacking academics, judges and the rule of law. As far as I can see, the only ones taking back control are the rulers, and the only ones they're taking back control from are the other citizens of the UK.

aembleton 6y ago
> that the ones in charge of 'taking back control' are also the ones stifling parliament, suppressing voting, and attacking academics, judges and the rule of law. Do you really want them to have an influence across the whole of the EU? By leaving, our dysfunctional politicians lose influence which will help with the peace and human rights that you mentioned earlier.
- gmac 6y ago
  I'm in the UK, so you got me: it seems I take a somewhat self-interested view on human rights! More seriously, though, the UK used to be a major world advocate for human rights, so UK human rights going down the pan probably isn't great for human rights worldwide. Peace takes two sides, so it's hard to argue that having your dysfunctional politicians run unchecked isn't going to lead to worse outcomes across the board. Edit: maybe you were joking? Ha ha.