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Netflix to start testing warnings for people borrowing login info
- sitkack 6y agoNetflix should formalize this, things that move together, wear together.
- Nextgrid 6y agoThis just gives piracy yet another advantage. The article clearly mentions that credentials sharing is currently used as a mitigation to the balkanization of streaming services, allowing the cost of all major subscriptions to be spread across several people, essentially bringing down the per-person cost to a reasonable, single subscription's cost. Cracking down on this doesn't mean people will start paying, they will just go back to illicit means of watching the content.
- wrkronmiller 6y agoor people will just create a shared email account, or set up a forwarding rule for the verification emails... I agree with another commenter. This seems targeted at people who are borrowing someone's account without their knowledge or consent.
- Nextgrid 6y agoThis kind of effort (presumably the verifications will be constant - one location being verified will trigger re-verification on all other locations) will just make people realize that piracy isn't that difficult to set up either and might make them reconsider using streaming services entirely.
- betwixthewires 6y agoThey're going to use a phone number, watch.
- cute_boi 6y agowhats going to stop them from sharing otp from netflix only using some andriod app etc?
- paxys 6y agoMy mom and grandma currently share my Netflix account. If Netflix cracks down on it they aren't going to start torrenting, but will either get their own subscriptions or not watch Netflix at all. I assume the suits at Netflix have run the numbers and are confident that enough people will fall into the first category to justify this move.
- moate 6y agoIt feels like this is them running the numbers. It's a small rollout. Looks like a classic A/B.
- fao_ 6y agoOr you could switch to renting a seedbox and using plex/jellyfin
- gruez 6y agoThe average HN user can pull that off, but not the average netflix user.
- bootlooped 6y agoOne seedbox with plex can serve many people though. You can easily imagine cases where the tech savvy family member is running it for the whole extended family.
- fao_ 6y agoReally? The offerings I looked at last month (I didn't actually buy one, to put it clearly, because I realised they don't suit my purposes) were zero-setup required. Sonarr/Radarr supposedly allows you to pick media just by typing in names, and all the dashboard offerings boasted one-click setup of all of those.
- dahart 6y agoHow is using someone else’s account not piracy?
- 4ggr0 6y agoIf you can't share accounts, why can you create a seemingly unlimited amount of profiles?
- dahart 6y agoThey aren’t unlimited, there are 5. Profiles are defined as being in the same household. The reasons are easy to understand, if you think about it. Netflix is providing separate queues and ratings for people who have to share, and household sharing is unavoidable in some cases, such as when using shared devices like ipads or game consoles. Or, you could just visit Netflix.com, where they explain the reasons behind profiles. “Profiles allow different members of your household to have their own personalized Netflix experience. You can have up to 5 profiles on a single Netflix account.” https://help.netflix.com/en/node/10421 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/10421 Sharing accounts outside of a household is stealing. I fail to see a big difference between that and any other form of illegal downloads where one person pays and someone else copies. I got some downvotes but nobody bothered to answer the question: how is using someone’s account who doesn’t live with you different in practice from torrenting, from a legal perspective?
- betwixthewires 6y agoHow is torrenting different from going to the library and borrowing DVD for free? Besides scale and efficiency, in principle, how is tpb different from a library?
- lmarcos 6y agoIn my case, I'll stop watching Netflix at all. Hey, probably not a bad thing after all.
- tw04 6y agoI think this is going to have the exact opposite effect of what they're going for. I know plenty of people who split the cost of an account because they can't justify the full price. The continual price hikes, and now this? I'm sure the bean counters have done the math and they'll come out ahead, but losing content + raising prices and now killing off people sharing accounts is just a bad look. This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Once you have market penetration, the only way you're increasing revenue is through customer hostile actions (like increasing the price of the service while decreasing the cost to provide it).
- Mindwipe 6y ago> This is yet another category of business where I think they'd be far better off being private, so in theory there isn't constant pressure to continue increasing revenue. Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix priced themselves artificially low to grow, based on debt. That set unrealistic consumer expectations and they might have to face the consequences of that eventually, but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you.
- tw04 6y ago>Netflix has borrowed billions (and billions) of dollars to get where they are. As a private entity they've gone bust seven or eight years ago. Netflix has been profitable since at least 2005... they may not have grown as quickly, but I'd need some data to back up the claim they'd be bankrupt without billions in investment. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/gross... >but Netflix's terms literally always said that accounts could only be shared with people living in the same household as you. I never said anything to the contrary. But it's no secret to netflix or anyone else that account sharing happens. This wouldn't be a news story otherwise. It also doesn't change the fact it's customer hostile and clearly an attempt to increase revenue.
- jenkstom 6y agoWhat is the solution for shared custody of children? I have three kids that spend half their time at their moms. Are their Spotify and Netflix accounts (and mine) going to get shutoff? Is there some sort of appeal process?
- sharkweek 6y agoAccording to the article you can just verify through a code that any devices are yours. My hunch is this is only going to cull the second layer and beyond of password sharing (people you wouldn’t feel comfortable texting and asking for the verification code).
- sitkack 6y agoInteresting. Why the warning tho and not just a "please relogin" screen?
- sharkweek 6y agoWould assume on that it’s because many people probably have the password memorized or written down somewhere as opposed to having to proactively ask someone for the verification code.
- pridkett 6y ago“Please Relogin” doesn’t give you the message that they’re on to what you’re doing. I don’t assume anything when I’m asked to login again. Guilt can be a powerful motivator for people who share accounts because many of them know that you’re not really supposed to do it, but it’s been more or less tolerated.
- bootlooped 6y agoI'm the main account on a Spotify family account. One or two times in the past five years they have asked all the members of the family plan to enter the home address on the account. Technically we're all supposed to live together, but we never have. They've never done anything about it, even though it's very obvious by looking at location or IP address. Maybe it'll be a similar gentle reminder by Netflix
- npwr 6y agoThis might be the right time to dust off the pirate hats. I share my account with my family and my girlfriend and there is no way they would all subscribe to a new account.
- betwixthewires 6y agoI never took mine off haha
- chucky 6y agoAs part of a single person household it feels weird that there is a norm that you are allowed to share logins "within your household". Effectively this means people in the same household are paying a lower price than others - so people living in single households are effectively subsidizing that usage by paying more per person.
- larrik 6y agoAre you saying if you have a wife and kid you should pay 3x the price?
- aaronax 6y agoIt's obviously not something that is going to happen, but it's also not that crazy of an idea. They use more water so you pay for more water. They use more clothing so you pay for more clothing. They use more cellular devices so you pay for more cellular connections. They each want an email address so you pay for more email accounts. They use more digital content so you pay for more digital content.
- chucky 6y agoI wouldn't put it like that. I would say that each user using Netflix should pay the same amount. So you pay for yourself, your wife pays for herself, and your kid pays for themselves. Sure, it's 3 times more than what you pay today. But you are 3 times as many people as I am, so why shouldn't you?
- croes 6y agoYou mean like internet access, telephone and cable tv? Single and multi person households both have pros and cons and this is just a pro for multi person households. The con is you need a more expensive netflix plan or you can't just watch when you want to.
- bidirectional 6y agoAlmost everything is cheaper for multiple people living as a unit. Wait until you find out people with partners effectively have their rent halved.
- seneca 6y agoI struggle to see Netflix existing in its current form in 5 years. Their content is just awful, and the continuous price hikes just aren't justified. If they also start cracking down on shared accounts, I can only see it hastening their demise.
- gt565k 6y agoHuh? Their content is far better than any of their competitors. I have no idea what you're talking about. They've been pumping out amazing original series and movies.
- seneca 6y agoGoing to have to respectfully disagree. There's no accounting for taste, but I haven't made it through a full episode of a Netflix original since House of Cards, barring series they bought and labeled originals. I consider their original content very bottom of the barrel.
- dahart 6y agoWhat’s better content that also allows account sharing from different locations?
- betwixthewires 6y agoThe pirate bay
- dahart 6y agoFair enough. I meant legally.
- Mindwipe 6y agoThis was a popular sentiment when they started blocking VPNs on Hacker News. A lot of money to be made betting against it.
- 4ggr0 6y agoThe Netflix I pay for is currently used by: Me, Mom, Dad, Grandparents, GF, GFs Mom. Other than myself and my GF, most of the people on this list watch something on Netflix every couple of months, when I or someone/something else recommend them a movie or show. I don't want them to use my profile, because we then obviously can't watch the same things, and it'll break my recommendations. I get why Netflix wants to split up accounts. Currently, they get approximately $240 per year from me and my family. If everyone has to create their own account, that number goes up to $1200. But that's how my family lives. Parents are separated, grandparents live in their own house, my gf at home with her mom and I alone. My dad in turn pays Disney+ for me, Spotify is paid by my GFs mother, grandma cooks me a couple of Lasagnas every year. We just share these services. Should my grandma pay $240 per year, to watch two movies I recommend to her (and are ONLY watchable on Netflix)? In the end, these streaming platforms are probably right that you shouldn't be allowed to share accounts if you don't live under the same roof, but it still kinda pisses me off. Don't really know what I should think about this to be honest...
- eatbitseveryday 6y ago> Currently, they get approximately $240 per year from me and my family. If everyone has to create their own account, that number goes up to $1200. Typo of extra zero? Is this US dollars? The most expensive digital plan is 17.99 USD / month. With discs, few $ more. USD 240/month is excessive.
- adamleithp 6y agoI’m one of these people. I use my brothers account (in Canada) and I’m in the UK. Got the pop up on my smart TV just 2 days ago. Netflix really doesn’t have much for me anymore... not really sure I’m going to use their service.
- Navarr 6y agoCould you imagine living with your spouse who owns the account on their email; your spouse is at work or on a business trip - maybe even out of the country, and you get this screen (or maybe you are!) Authorized Devices with a limit is a better choice
- 4ggr0 6y ago> Authorized Devices with a limit is a better choice Well good luck figuring out what that limit should be. I know households where everyone owns a smartphone and shares a single TV, and other households where every kid has their own TV, Playstation etc. Maybe max 3 devices per person?
- lol123456789 6y ago"The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates." - Gaben
- jjk166 6y agoBut providing a service people are willing to pay for is so much less lucrative than finding ways to force people to pay for inferior service.
- betwixthewires 6y agoLess lucrative at first. Eventually it catches up to you. Look at blockbuster as an example.
- Mindwipe 6y agoThis is the same Gaben who runs a store with a bunch of DRM on it that has a variety of mechanisms to prevent account sharing yeah? It's a nice soundbite, but even he doesn't believe it.
- Sohcahtoa82 6y agoDRM on its own isn't always necessarily bad. Gaben's quote on piracy was about 2 1/2 years after the big Spore DRM debacle [0], which affected legitimate customers. I've been using Steam for who knows how long and have never had the DRM be an issue, even after several computer upgrades and motherboard replacements. I just have to log in and I can redownload all my games with no issue at all. Yes, Steam is DRM, but it's sane DRM. > has a variety of mechanisms to prevent account sharing yeah? Well...yeah. You aren't supposed to share accounts. > It's a nice soundbite, but even he doesn't believe it. It's not just about DRM. When he talks about it being a "service problem", it's not just about the ability to simply play games. When you buy from Steam, you get automatic updates, cloud saves, community integration (such as the Workshop for installing mods and other user-made content), built-in screenshot management features, and more. If you pirate the game, you get none of that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(2008_video_game)#DRM_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(2008_video_game)#DRM_co...
- cortesoft 6y agoThe way I see it, the system currently works pretty well. Account sharing isn't totally free for the user.... you only can have a certain number of simultaneous streams, and you will have extra profiles on your account. If people can afford their own account without sharing, they will do it. If they are sharing an account, it means they are sacrificing some functionality to save money.
- PragmaticPulp 6y agoI have a group of friends who share a Netflix login and split the bill. It took them several months to realize there was a simultaneous streaming limitation because it was so rare for 3 of them to try to watch at the same time. When they hit it, the third person just watches on their shared Hulu or shared HBO account anyway.
- drivingmenuts 6y agoI don’t own a TV; I have an iPad. Wonder if that’s going to cause problems if I ever get to travel again?
- Sohcahtoa82 6y agoAssuming you never log out, I wouldn't think so. Your iPad may move around, but the login session on your iPad is still the same session.
- matbilodeau 6y agoReminds me of something similar that happened in Canada. Satellite boxes were so easy to hack it was more of configuration, cable provider sued for disloyal competition. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bellexpressvu-must-pay- https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bellexpressvu-must-pay- quebecor-137m-for-not-stopping-signal-piracy-1.2987341 Which brings my question : Would a provider who tolerates account sharing be at risk of being sued by competitors over similar?
- donmcronald 6y agoThat's the first time I've seen someone accuse the satellite providers of tolerating signal piracy. It wasn't THAT easy. The difficulty was in the range of a firmware flash. It wasn't super reliable either. They used to change / fix things and people with the pirate boxes would end up waiting days or even weeks for the new hack. I can't remember the name of the content protection systems, but IIRC it was an issue / limitation with the actual satellite(s), so it's not like they could flip a switch and fix it. They made huge improvements with the next set of satellites that were put into service. There was a very brief golden age of satellite piracy when all the FTA stuff was popular, but it didn't last any longer than you'd expect when you consider the logistics of having to deal with a satellite that's in space as one side of the system. That's crazy.
- nashashmi 6y agoNetflix limits the number of streamers on an account. That should allow for account sharing.
- betwixthewires 6y agoYeah, I thought the whole point of simultaneous stream limiting was to account for this and keep costs per account low so as to remain profitable, but I guess some egg head bean counter is hell bent on earning his boss a bonus for additional cost cutting.
- websites2323 6y agoGoogle Voice numbers are cheap. If SMS is the only barrier to verifying and they don’t block it, could be easy to circumvent. But then again, this and every other technical “solution” to this problem presented here (piracy, etc) is far beyond what a normal user could be bothered to implement. I get it. Business team needs to see an upward trend in account sign ups and they’re seeing a plateau. This move will get the normal users legitimized and it will delay a bigger increase in cost for a year or two.
- idsout 6y agoWhat's going on with Popcorn Time these days?
- _carbyau_ 6y agoWhat stops a personal hosting VPN gateway for family to "login from my house internet"? I mean, not everyone will know how to do it but the commonly mentioned "Family IT guy" likely will.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoI’m gonna grab some popcorn and wait for the free speech brigade to show up and denounce this deplatforming.
- ipaddr 6y agoThis tells me netflix is seeing a revenue / growth issues in the near future. The content release schedule has been slowing. Growth is probably at peak and with the Disney and Amazon pressure things are looking a little rough. They did the increase subscriber price a few months ago. I think they were shocked by the number of people who cancelled. They can't go in that direction. Funds for content have been spent unwisely. 20-25 million dollar comedy show payouts, cancelling popular shows and under replacing expiring content.
- frombody 6y agoOr perhaps they are seeing an increase in abuse. Personally I know of very few people that don't share Netflix with others. It doesn't make financial sense to allow everyone to shoplift your product, especially for something that costs less than an average meal.
- noncoml 6y agoI think it’s fair if they stop the account sharing. But I think it will have the opposite effect. I have a friend who shared his account with me sometime back and out of courtesy I got Hulu and shared it with him. I watch Netflix maybe an hour a month, and I can’t even remember the last time I watched Hulu. If they put an end to sharing, it is very unlikely that I will get my own account. And will stop paying for Hulu too. But on the other hand, I doubt if they care much about such low usage accounts.