25 ms·

I have a similar feeling, but with modern smartphones. Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose, a

• missedthecue 6y ago
  You could buy a flip phone
  • gruez 6y ago
    That solves the botnet/tracking aspect, but doesn't solve the "I want a computing device that I control" aspect.
  • tvb12 6y ago
    Every flip phone I've come across has run a version of Android.
  • approxim8ion 6y ago
    Most old flip phones support up to 3G, which is being phased out. The 4G ones run either Android (so a worse experience with the same spyware) or KaiOS (which is still fine but not very available).
    • FourthProtocol 6y ago
      KaiOS is sponsored in part by Google, and includes Google software. I know because I have the yellow banana phone (Nokia clone). I bought that with exactly the expectation that it's free of trackers and so on, but no. Apps on KaiOS cannot be uninstalled.
      • approxim8ion 6y ago
        It's getting harder and harder to have free phones then. They're slowly tightening SafetyNet which makes it harder to use free custom android ROMs as well.
• eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  Buy a PinePhone. It might very well be more open and trustworthy than some laptops or desktops.
  • ARandomerDude 6y ago
    Where? Everywhere I've seen is preorder or out of stock. I'm sure it's a great device but the supply chain just isn't there if my phone dies today.
  • kokx 6y ago
    I love the PinePhone. It is an amazing project, and I'm definitely considering buying one. However, it does not solve my main problem. For most scenarios I still need a "normal" smartphone with either iOS or Android. Apps like WhatsApp and banking apps are unfortunately needed for a large part of my daily life. At risk of either socially isolating myself or bringing major inconveniences without having them. All unavailable outside of the walled gardens. I really want the PinePhone to be a solution here, but unfortunately I know it isn't.
    • a5withtrrs 6y ago
      The (not cost effective) solution is to carry both. Shut off the 'normal' smart phone when you don't need it (for banking or what have you). Use the web version of Whatsapp (https://web.whatsapp.com/ https://web.whatsapp.com/) if you must use it. You could even consider having a WhatsApp specific phone if you have an older model that you've upgraded from that contains no other data. That was my solution anyway.
      • kokx 6y ago
        That is the solution I am considering at the moment as well. Its not the prettiest, but it will likely work as a stopgap measure.
        • a5withtrrs 6y ago
          You can also use one device to hotspot another thus providing data without the added risks that come with having another mystery binary blob. You'll need a external battery pack though for longer days away from home.
• marcodiego 6y ago
  Owning a computer goes way beyond simply choosing its parts or OS.
  • asymptosis 6y ago
    I get the feeling you could be tempted to say more about that. Please elaborate?
    • judge2020 6y ago
      I guess they mean the freedom (or lack thereof) of the software license that comes with your OS, ie. 'you should be able to hit the software with a metaphorical hammer', which technically isn't possible with the Windows 10 license.
      • autoexec 6y ago
        I also think selecting parts is limited by the fact that there are so few manufacturers. Processors these days mostly come down to AMD or Intel and nothing there is transparent or audit-able. "trusted computing" and backdoors make even your hardware suspect.
        • fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
          There are capable desktop computers with open hardware, down to the silicon: you just have to pay for it. For example, for $4k, you can get this with specs roughly equivalent to a normal developer machine: https://www.raptorcs.com/content/BK1SD1/intro.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/BK1SD1/intro.html
          • autoexec 6y ago
            Not too shabby looking! Thanks for the link
          • anw 6y ago
            And the cool thing – it looks like there has been some interest[0] in supporting Power for WINE. [0] https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2019-February/140231.html https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2019-February/14...
• iphorde 6y ago
  Let's get a right to repair bill done. I don't think this current administration and congress have an appetite for it, but maybe in the future we will get it.
• _peeley 6y ago
  I agree with this so much. It would be so convenient if I could just flash Arch Linux or something onto a modern smartphone and be able to use all the applications and settings and data I use on my desktop, but on my mobile phone. Android is markedly better than iOS when it comes to customization, but it's a far cry from a (real) Linux distribution. I've started getting OS-level push notification ads from Google News and other bullshit on my Samsung Note 9, and it makes me want to set the thing on fire. It also makes me pretty pessimistic when it comes to privacy. I can uninstall Windows/MacOS on my laptop, coreboot it, use FOSS/privacy-centric software, etc. but it doesn't really mean much when my phone (which is basically attached to my body 24 hours a day, and is my main conduit of communication with others) is a privacy/security nightmare.
  • sp332 6y ago
    Notifications are pretty easy to disable though, right?
    • _peeley 6y ago
      I have yet to find a satsifactory way to disable them - it's pretty easy to disable notifications from userspace apps like Instagram or Snapchat or whatever, but disabling notifications or altogether uninstalling vendor apps is a huge pain in the ass. Most advice I've gotten has been flash a custom Android kernel or a de-Googled distro. This would definitely solve my problems, but this removes the ability to install Play Store apps which are a necessity for me. Not to mention that it gives the possibility of bricking my phone, which is way outside my risk tolerance for just getting rid of some annoying ads.
      • kdrag0n 6y ago
        Universal Android Debloater can remove them without root, using ADB (Android Debug Bridge): https://gitlab.com/W1nst0n/universal-android-debloater/ https://gitlab.com/W1nst0n/universal-android-debloater/ In case you do want to install a custom Android distribution (ROM) to clean out the Samsung bloat more thoroughly, the risk of hard-bricking your phone is almost non-existent nowadays. The worst that can happen is usually a soft-brick which can be fixed by reinstalling the original OS. As for Play Store, most custom ROMs either include or support installing Google services and Play Store with full functionality. (disclaimer: I work on custom kernels and ROMs)
• alexfromapex 6y ago
  It seems like a lot of these problems at the core stem from corporations or the government not being held accountable. How do we fix regulatory capture so these privacy issues are a non sequitur?
  • chii 6y ago
    > How do we fix regulatory capture so these privacy issues are a non sequitur? by making the general populous care more about it, and force the electorate's hands.
    • psychlops 6y ago
      So then...it's hopeless.
    • ldbooth 6y ago
      "A crisis is a terrible thing to waste."
    • Siira 6y ago
      I have increasingly come to the conclusion that the society’s average IQ matters an order of magnitude more than your own in your well-being. An obvious example would be to compare the life of a person with mental illness to that of a roughly similarly smart animal.
  • AshWolfy 6y ago
    I dont think we can ever rely on people holding corporations or the government accountable
    • ldbooth 6y ago
      Not ever... when we vote corporations out of controlling the government, or "we the corporations". Red/Blue is for strawmanning, both parties are $green.
      • gm 6y ago
• marshmallow_12 6y ago
  Yes. I feel i am not trusted by any OS vendor to be given access to all my system folders. I feel that my computers OS is like the proverbial, pushy "bodyguard" whose job is to stop you seeing too much and going places "they" don't want you to go.
• superkuh 6y ago
  You will never own your smartphone. That would require you to be the licensed operator for the radio transmission. Instead the radio is licensed to the telco (or related) and the telcos have every regulatory and monetary incentive to prevent users from being able to access or control the radio. The government regulators demand the user not have control and the baseband modem manufacturer(s) demand their licensed intellectual property is not exposed.
  • p1necone 6y ago
    You can buy a usb cellphone modem for a PC, the rest of the system still belongs to you.
    • superkuh 6y ago
      I agree. That's the best way to go. But it is not mutually exclusive with never being able to own your smartphone.
      • p1necone 6y ago
        My point was more that if you can have a fully free PC except for the cellphone modem, then you can also have a fully free cellphone except for the modem. There's nothing about the rest of the cellphone that's any different from any other computing device. As another commenter pointed out - the Pinephone is device attempting to do that.
    • mceachen 6y ago
      While this may seem terribly ungainly, Nokia had a debian-based, smartphone-sized touchscreen tablet 18 months before the iPhone was released. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet
    • rsync 6y ago
      This isn’t the slam dunk that people think it is, unfortunately. You see, in addition to controlling the cellular radio and all of those details, the bass band processor also does real time noise cancellation and a variety of other call quality functions that you would immediately miss if they were not there. That processor is actually doing a lot of different things and is difficult to remove from a phone and maintain what most people would consider an acceptable user experience.
• Bakary 6y ago
  Some time ago, this topic prompted me to rethink how I used smartphones in general. Once you get more intentional with the way you use your devices, it's often the case that you can discover habitual patterns that took over without you noticing.
• xvector 6y ago
  Librem 5? PinePhone?
  • b0tzzzzzzman 6y ago
    A push in the right direction.. But I have been waiting two years after payment at this point.
    • mPReDiToR 6y ago
      I ordered my PP (KDE CE) in mid December. It arrived early February. There's another round of sales coming up, keep an eye on the blog.
• tyingq 6y ago
  "simple reparation tasks like replacing a battery is a nightmare these days" Had a recent experience with a Motorola phone with this. And there was no obvious technical reason they couldn't have held the battery down with something other than a shite ton of glue.
  • crabmusket 6y ago
    I'd like to quickly plug Fairphone here. They've made a phone which does everything you'd expect of a smartphone, but is also very easy to disassemble. Replacing the battery is extremely easy, same with the screen itself. The other "modules" tend to have a few different components on them, e.g. USB plug and vibration motor are on the same module AFAIR. I've been using the Fairphone 2 for a bit over 5 years and while it's not an outstanding phone, it's lasted well enough. The challenge for me in Australia is getting spare parts, as they only ship to Europe sadly.
    • Psychlist 6y ago
      I just bought a 3+, shipped to Australia via a friend in Austria. I'm glad to hear that your 2 has lasted, albeit the phone I replaced was also about 5 years old (a Samsung, from the days when those had replaceable batteries and uSD slots. And on battery number three, although I am pretty sure battery number two was a fake because it never worked properly) I'd love to run a more open software stack, but even just Linux on the top layer would mean not running the apps I need to get through daily life... it's why I had to retire my perfectly working Android 3 phone, so many things stopped working (the Covid tracking app FFS). But under linux are the various radio, camera, wifi etc modules and a lot of those have their own firmware. Pinephone has really struggled with that.
  • katbyte 6y ago
    glue is cheap
• intrasight 6y ago
  Feel lucky that we can still build computers from parts. And just treat your smartphone as the appliance that it is.
• jhoho 6y ago
  If you want to stay with Android, maybe have a look at CalyxOS. They integrate microG and flawless system updates while keeping the bootloader locked. Only works on Pixels and the Xiaomin A2 though. Imho it's the one Android distribution that has the right balance of privacy and usability. I flashed it for my mum and my sister and there wasn't one complaint yet.
• boring_twenties 6y ago
  > Owning my computer is still relatively possible. Sorry to burst your bubble, https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme
  • HideousKojima 6y ago
    https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ Purism was able to completely disable Intel's ME
    • fsflover 6y ago
      Not completely, but to a large extent: https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/ https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/
    • boring_twenties 6y ago
      No? Your link says nothing about "completely," you just made that up. What it does say is that they remove the "nonessential" bits, plus flip the HAP bit. You can do both of these things yourself with me_cleaner, but it's not good enough. Exploitable vulnerabilities have been found in the bits that cannot be removed. edit: E.g. https://nitter.dark.fail/rootkovska/status/938458875522666497?p=p https://nitter.dark.fail/rootkovska/status/93845887552266649...
  • b0tzzzzzzman 6y ago
    Great stuff. First time I flashed a chip with SPI or started learning and playing with surface mount chips. Old ThinkPad are still very capable and empowering if you like playing with software and hardware. Coreboot is great as well, but a bit different.
  • rouzh 6y ago
    Happy to deflect your bursting! :) https://www.raptorcs.com/content/base/faq.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/base/faq.html
    • 6y ago
• garmaine 6y ago
  > Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose This is insufficient according to conditions of TFA. It is widely assumed in the security industry (based on evidence from the various state-sponsored attacks we can see) that the NSA and/or other government agencies have backdoors and/or zero-day exploits for both the CPU secure execution modes and common networking hardware. It is very likely that there are "magic packets" which you can send to such devices which install a rootkit payload. If security against even government intrusion is something you care about, it really difficult to buy or make a modern computer that is configured like computers were in the 80's and 90's: just running code we have complete access to, with no hidden interfaces.
• Aaronstotle 6y ago
  I've always dreamed of something like an open-source iOS clone. The benefit would be that developers wouldn't have to change much, and this new system could take advantage of the exiting iOS app eco-system.
• throwawaysea 6y ago
  Is there a good layman’s guide on how to do this? I’ve heard about things like f droid or cyanogen but really have no idea how those paths compare to “open source” phone operating systems from Mozilla or Ubuntu or other choices like Purism. What’s a reliable route to get a smartphone that can do calls, texts, and browsers without relying on Google or Apple?
• monkin 6y ago
  There should be just a phone for hackers and hardware/open source enthusiasts. They would have a toy to play with without a need to bash other “walled garden” platforms which isn’t for them apparently. As ordinary consumers don’t want to or do not have a knowledge on how to do those advanced tasks most HN users want. And, that’s great! They shouldn’t know that, maybe there will be some cultural shift in the future, where everyone will be tech-savvy, and companies like Apple starts changing their approach. Until then HN users need to accept that most of those solutions are made for ordinary consumers, and embrace the niche for them. :-)
  • fsflover 6y ago
    Such phones exist: Librem 5 and Pinephone.
  • mPReDiToR 6y ago
    Typing this on Huawei Android. I have a PinePhone. It's much fun being around the guys who are making the next evolution of phone. Hackers gonna hack. I'm still here bashing the walled gardens because no matter what the non-techies want to do, they need protecting from themselves by either the .gov or by being given alternatives. Every day we get closer to giving them another usable option.
• EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 6y ago
  I have been lucky with TextNow web-based phone number so far - all my banks (and the IRS) accept it. But it's probably only a matter of time until they force me to use a "real" phone.
• jamesrr39 6y ago
  With regards to changing parts on a phone, ifixit made a comparison of different phones and how easy they are to change parts for. Something to consider taking a look at when buying a new phone. https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability
  • fsflover 6y ago
    See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCccpgposh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCccpgposh4.
• bayindirh 6y ago
  I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora of reasons. First, user interface is not very suitable for that. Second, there's a lot more finicky things to manage. Last but not the least, that management task is continuous. iOS takes all of these away. Complete backups are built-in (I know android has it, but I don't know how bulletproof is this). Defaults are sensible. Settings do not change spontaneously. OS behavior doesn't change drastically from device to device (Every android vendor tunes their OS and background process policy differently, creating a lot of WTH moments and more finicky management tasks). Updates are not slowed down by the vendor, the operator, the distributor and today's weather. While iOS is a pretty strict walled garden, devices are set-up and forget. Even you forget that you have an iOS device, because you use it without thinking. Radio security, isolation and its reasonable and unreasonable parts are discussed here extensively. As a HAM radio operator, I can only say that, radios can do wreak a lot of havoc even with informed tinkering, without any bad intentions. If you take a relatively cheap SDR and listen to your neighborhood spectrum (just see the traffic, not decode anything) your jaw will drop. It's a very crowded up there, and there's a lot of non-public traffic. Another stuff about custom ROMs and Stock ROMs is SIM services. Yes, many of the SIM menus just sit here unused, but there are useful ones like mobile e-signatures. I carry my e-sig with my phone, in my SIM. So using it requires a verified and official software stack. As far as my experience goes, no custom ROMs run these services (intentionally or unintentionally). I manage my family's Android phones, and I personally use an iPhone. As far as I can see, it's much easier to leave an iOS device on its terms and it'll fare better. Feel free to discuss, counter or just burn this comment down. :)
  • tim333 6y ago
    I'm similar and for the most part don't really use the iPhone as computer. It just acts as a hotspot for the laptop and I use it to take photos so I don't have to worry so much about proprietary stuff running on it.
  • 6y ago
• stiray 6y ago
  Well I have completely degoogled mine [1], but it comes with problems like reversing banking application as it uses safetynet. Luckily I am quite profound at that. Bottom line, it is doable, but I want a working linux phone, where camera and calls/sms/mms work and I dont use any newage communication software, so I dont care. Again, this is completely my use case as I practically consider the phone applications as mostly useless, dont play games and prefer paying in cash. I hoped Cosmo Communicator[2] would be it but they didn't support the camera and since I am using it for taking notes, it is vital for me. Actually I even went into making degoogled rom for CC but I got stuck at selinux blatantly abused to prevent modifications and maybe some day I will recompile the kernel to kick it out or find time to reverse and binary patch the selinux checking. Actually PinePhone is becoming more and more interesting option but they should really pump up the specs, again, at least for camera. The second possibility would be sailfish os [3] but again it has some closed source blobs. [1] https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ [2] https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator [3] https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• sammorrowdrums 6y ago
  Well it is early days but Librem and System76 (and several others like Pine64) are making huge headway in the open hardware space. I know there have been lots of failures in this area but I think we are getting to a threshold point where building on top of these companies acheivements is quite possible. Linux on Mobile and open EC and Coreboot etc. are all making rapid progress at the moment. I would still say we are talking in terms of years before more general Linux Phone adoption would be possible, and still the fact your online bank etc. doesn't make an app for Linux would be prohibitive to many (although anbox might help), so I understand pessimism here, but I think the excitement around Linux mobile and open hardware is sufficient that it will at least be revolutionary that it is possible to run open hardware and Linux phones etc. same as SteamOS was a failure if you look only at numbers of Steam Machines, and a revolution in Linux gaming if you look at Proton, GamerOS and all the improvements that came with it. Viable alternatives affect the behavior of others, even if they "fail". And if you're already a desktop Linux user like me, open hardware is already a reality. Only thing that's stopped me trading Dell XPS 13 for Purism 14 is that I will miss the QHD+ screen, as it is standard HD res. Still really tempted though.
  • bmn__ 6y ago
    > desktop Linux user like me, open hardware is already a reality Power or RISC-V ISA hardware are in low stock, have very few, specialised vendors and are not affordable. I have great sympathy for people who refuse to pay the outrageous difference to off-the-shelf hardware that can be bought anywhere just to gain a level of privacy that they should have in the first place. AMD and Intel have rootkits in their hardware which are designed to be exceedingly difficult to remove. If the customer is a spy agency, they will ship with the rootkit disabled. If the customer is just a normal person like the one writing the article, one will not be able to have one for money or good words.
    • franga2000 6y ago
      I seriously doubt either Intel or AMD ship different silicon to the NSA or whoever else. At least from what I've read, the only difference (at least on Intel) is the "NSA bit", that can actually be turned on on any chip these days. System76 actually ships machines with it enabled by default.
• fouuler 6y ago
  > since a lot of normal interactions such as banking almost requires you to have such a phone. I can get by without carrying a microphone-and-camera equipped computer controlled by someone else around, and so I don't; but, if I want to return something I bought on the Internet, I don't get a receipt; and, if I want to go to a bar, there's a risk I won't be allowed to pay. (There is a law against the latter problem, but it is not enforced.)
  • Freak_NL 6y ago
    > and, if I want to go to a bar, there's a risk I won't be allowed to pay. Are there situations where paying without a smartphone is not practically possible? In the Netherlands people sometimes pay with smartphones, but these use the same infrastructure as the ubiquitous debit cards, so it is not an issue here. (Cash on the other hand…)
    • fouuler 6y ago
      In Norway, some businesses use Corona as a pretext and say that credit cards are dirty too. What's the cash situation in the Netherlands? Aren't businesses legally bound to accept cash?
      • Freak_NL 6y ago
        Supermarkets, sure, but plenty of small businesses require one of the so-called contactless payment methods these days — a trend that started pre-corona. This means either a debit card or a smartphone with a virtual debit card on it. It is a point of concern that this excludes people without a bank account, but as this doesn't impact essential services it is tolerated. I don't think we have a law that mandates cash, but of course supermarkets would face criticism if they closed the last cash register (there is always one that accepts both kinds of payment). These payment terminals and the Dutch debit cards are by now all suitable for this type of contactless payment: you either lay the card on top of the terminal or hover it there, or hold it near the side (depending on the model); it can be done completely without terminal and card touching, and of course only the card carrier touches the card (i.e., you don't hand it over as is sometimes done with credit cards). Credit cards are rarely used for payments in shops here, and are often frowned upon by merchants (and often refused). It's all debit cards (either as a physical card or virtual in a smartphone) and some cash — although covid may well proof to put cash that much closer to the grave.
• mschuster91 6y ago
  > and even doing simple reparation tasks like replacing a battery is a nightmare these days I went ahead and bought a SM-T575 tablet a couple weeks ago. The only tablet I could find in the 8-inch range that had a somewhat decent CPU/GPU, a camera with light, NFC and a replaceable battery - while still being waterproof. And it's not made out of hard plastic that will shatter at the first fall. For all that joy however, it was a fucking PITA to root it and I only succeeded because of a helpful soul messaging me on Reddit of all places. Seems like the only place one can find stuff supposed to live longer lives is in the expensive Enterprise section of manufacturers for a hefty premium - similar to "smart TVs" where the only "dumb TVs" available are "digital signage" type. And that's not good. We need regulation in this space, and fast.
  • brokenmachine 6y ago
    >We need regulation in this space, and fast. I'm hoping the EU can help a bit. Please, EU, you're our only hope!!
• rnestler 6y ago
  > I cannot choose any of the parts, and even doing simple reparation tasks like replacing a battery is a nightmare these days. There is the https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/ which is a modular and easy to repair smartphone. They also make it easy to install alternative operating systems like Sailfish or an OSS version of Android.
  • tremon 6y ago
    The company itself only supports stock Android, although they do foster (some) community efforts for ports. Sailfish doesn't seem available for the Fairphone 3; /e/OS is, but to get it preinstalled you need to order from E, not Fairphone itself: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/ https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/
  • robotnikman 6y ago
    Unfortunately they don't seem to work in the US, and from what I've seen they are mainly focusing on selling and making sure their phones work in Europe.
• vbezhenar 6y ago
  I can somewhat relate to you, but in different aspect. I own iPhone and I'm thinking about some home automation. I can program iPhones, I tried to find out some way to put my code onto my phone without restrictions and I did not find any. I can use web app, but it's restricted and I might need some API that's not available for web. I can install my development build, but it'll expire in a few days and I don't want to reinstall it over and over again. That's an absurd situation when I'm as a programmer can't put my own program onto my own device. I love iOS in almost every way except sideloading restriction. If I missed some way to implement what I want, I'd love to hear how can I do that. I don't need much, but I need push notifications from server and I need push notifications when I'm close to some particular location (like open a door when I'm near it). I might need NFC push notification, I'm not sure. I don't agree that Android suck, I have second phone for testing and while I love iOS more as it feels more polished, I probably will switch to Android in the future, just because I want to run my code on my device.
  • navaati 6y ago
    It’s frustrating to have to pay, but I think you can shell out something like a 100 bucks to get an Apple developer account and it allows you to install your own code on your own phone. I hope it’s a 100 bucks forever and not once per year… Can someone confirm ?
    • DeusExMachina 6y ago
      It's once per year. Source: I have a paid developer account.
      • MrGilbert 6y ago
        But I also need a mac for signing, don't I? Like, a Mac Mini? That's the most annoying part, tbh. I feel fine-ish for paying 8 $ a month for my dev account (if you calculate it that way), but buying additional, expensive hardware? No, not really.
        • 6y ago
• fouuler 6y ago
  > Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose, and have a choice in which operating system to install on them. Where can I find, how can I build a computer---that isn't 13 years old---with open firmware of which one doesn't reasonably suspect that the NSA put a backdoor into it?
  • avhception 6y ago
    Maybe have a look here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26394439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26394439
  • lupire 6y ago
    Don't worry about NSA. If the NSA finds your computer interesting, they can remotely hack it using one of a 100 zero-days exploits, without ME. And if you are running non-ME system, it's even easier for them to hack you unless you are working with the CounterNSA.
    • fouuler 6y ago
      Surely this depends on the system being run and the programs running on it. Are you claiming that a basic installation of OpenBSD is wide open to the NSA? Even if that is true, I would think that fewer vulnerabilities are better than more, and that vulnerabilities that cannot be found because their source is secret are worse than those that can be found.
• emrah 6y ago
  Choosing an OS doesn't mean you get to own it unless you choose Linux.
• ciconia 6y ago
  I own a 5-years old Moto G4 Play running a de-googled Android 7.1. It works just fine, and I can install apps from either the F-droid or the Aurora stores. To me it makes more sense to continue with this phone, as I can find all the replacement parts I need on AliExpress, rather than investing in a new Librem 5 or a PinePhone. While I appreciate being able to use an open mobile OS, there's the problem of apps, and there's still the hardware problem - it's both more expensive (in the case of the Librem 5 at least) and has the same problem of eventual obsolescence.
  • morganvachon 6y ago
    One of the biggest and most overlooked issues with privacy on any cellphone, "open hardware" or otherwise, is the phone part. The baseband processor (BBP) will be a proprietary black box until at least one of the carriers decides to allow an open source BBP to access their network and exchange data. Even once that happens, if it ever does, the second your BBP accesses the network you are vulnerable to snooping, tracking, and spoofing like everyone else on the planet. At the end of the day you are relying on a suspect network connection, hosted by a profit seeking corporation, regulated by a privacy hostile government, to maintain your connection to the world. No matter how "free" your device is, the network itself will never truly be free.
• xenadu02 6y ago
  The only thing I will say is that I encourage you to get involved with hardware engineering. You will quickly find that small personal electronics have extreme design constraints that are quite unlike a custom-built PC (it's like complaining that you can't just buy RAM, a CPU, enclosure, etc and build your own ECM for your car). People don't drop their battery-powered custom-built PC into 6ft of water and expect it to keep working (then dunk it again after two years of abuse, 4 floor drops, etc have worked against the case, seals, and so forth). They don't take it from freezing temperatures into the warm indoors and expect it to keep on trucking. They don't expose it to extreme temperatures on car dashboards in the summertime and expect it to still perform (it would absolutely hard-lock due to overheating if you tried it). Compared to a phone it doesn't matter very much how much a custom-built PC weighs +/- 1kg; phones fight for grams. If a custom-built PC uses an extra 15w who cares? But that might be more than the entire power budget of a phone SoC. People expect a phone not to spew EM that breaks the ability of anyone around them to use data or make calls. People also expect their phone to be able to complete a 911 call in an emergency so long as some kind of signal exists. Modularity IS NOT FREE. STOP ACTING LIKE IT IS. Modularity costs space, weight, and complexity (which often translates into user time spent troubleshooting). If a user-replaceable screen means giving up waterproofing do you expect that to be a popular tradeoff? If making the battery replaceable reduces battery life by 40% is that a good tradeoff? It is clear to me some people complaining haven't spent any time researching this topic and have no idea just how much engineering goes into modern electronics nor what the tradeoffs are. If they actually had to live with the results of their claimed preferences a lot of them would hate it and switch back immediately. At best I see people hand-waving half the battery life or double the weight as if it such things were trivial for devices people hold or carry on their person for hours a day. I'm 100% serious when I say if you are working on your own company or product please make sure you approach these things with eyes open. If you are deliberately going to serve a different part of the market know that going in. It's fine to go after a niche - a niche can be profitable - but understand your customers and what they really value (not just what they claim to value). Don't let a bunch of contrarians on HN convince you there's a market for 10 million modular cell phones. You'll lose a lot of money when your "customers" skewer your product for all the compromises necessary to give them what they claimed to want.
  • 6y ago
• thwoeriu2334234 6y ago
  > trying to ungoogle it as much as possible. From experience, no matter what you do, your phone will still continue to ping 1e100.net every few minutes. This may just be something innocuous, but there just is no way to get rid of this behavior (or to understand where it's coming from).
  • techrat 6y ago
    1e100.net is for dns resolution and captive portal detection. > adb shell settings put global captive_portal_mode 0 will disable it.
  • Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Doesn’t LineageOS with MicroG strip out calls to Google servers?
  • lupire 6y ago
    Your DNS server can filter that out.
• amelius 6y ago
  Most developers: I want open hardware. But I need to buy a specific brand for my income. Ugh.
• grishka 6y ago
  Even with unlockable bootloaders, you're still never completely getting rid of what I call predatory code signing. The code you're able to run on an Android phone after unlocking the bootloader runs with EL1 — the privilege level sufficient for an OS kernel. Problem is, there are higher privilege levels aka ARM TrustZone (I think they go up to EL3?), and you're never getting access to those. And there's a "secure OS" that runs in those, and that, among other things, manages DRM and SafetyNet.
• ForHackernews 6y ago
  You might want to check out https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/ - It's a de-googled Android + MicroG, but ships with its own app store and tries to be a generally integrated experience.
• macspoofing 6y ago
  My hope is that as smartphone hardware gets commoditized we'll see a meaningful third-party alternative. Linux on desktop, for example, may not have the marketshare that matches commercial offerings (like MacOS, Win, ChromeOS) but it is viable, and it is there for people who want it. I want to see something like that for phones.
• GoofballJones 6y ago
  This may be an ignorant question, but how do we know what every part in a computer does? Yes, we can choose the OS, but do we all know what every single chip does on a motherboard? Like, EVERY chip, not the CPU or main ones, but the innocuous chips that are strewn across a motherboard. Now, I know some of you will go "yes, I know what they do", but do you inspect every motherboard you own in detail to see what they do? What am I getting at? Well, I know it's totally paranoid, but what if some agency out there in other countries who build these things are putting things on the boards to send telemetry data back. Perhaps something small and quick now and then while the computer is online. Something that you don't even notice unless you're constantly monitoring the internet traffic in and out. And the traffic itself could be something innocuous also. Something that slips under the radar. I know I know, I'm totally paranoid here. But does anyone here worry about that at all?
  • Agr0tera 6y ago
    That concern isn't actually as paranoid as it may seem, it's happened before https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6240195/China-used-tiny-chips-US-computers-steal-secrets-report.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6240195/Chin...
• okprod 6y ago
  More problematic issue with smartphones these days is the baseband; hard for any phone to be free.
• worstenbrood 6y ago
  Im using lineage with microg for 9 months now without missing anything. I'm curious what prevents you from using it for daily usage.
• suifbwish 6y ago
  The type of programming you need to get your phone to dynamically manage a mesh of access points makes the brain melt. At what level do you want control? After the network connection manager already does its thing or do you want to govern that too?
• Epitom3 6y ago
  You can buy a pixel and install GrapheneOS on it. https://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/