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Twin sisters worth millions thanks to female gamers
- endisneigh 6y agoThat's great for them. There's seriously a huge market for large female audiences. For example, women can command way more money from advertisers on YouTube given equally (very large) viewership and subscriber bases. I think we'll see a lot of women begin to capitalize on this in larger and larger numbers in the next year in things that are generally not associated with women (military things, video games, strength training, etc.)
- tick_tock_tick 6y agoThe mobile gaming audience has trended female for quite a while now. It's only in the other categories that men the majority of the audience (consoles, pc, etc).
- novok 6y agoI think more specifically it's the genre of game. I think the 2 genres that are female dominated last time I've heard are match 3 (think bejeweled) and life/farm sims like the sims. I'm not sure if stardew valley and animal crossing are female dominated or not, but I guess it would be since I think that is the same genre.
- neonological 6y agoI remember when I was like 3 or 4 years old the themes of the pictures I drew were markedly different from the pictures girls drew. I drew pictures of warriors, ninjas, dinosaurs, jet planes, guns, swords, explosions and weaponry. I noticed the girls always drew pictures of houses and family and I thought that was the stupidest thing ever. So yeah it's definitely the genre, and dare I say definitely in part biological in origin.
- lazyasciiart 6y agoIf this is something you find interesting or where your opinion might matter to other people, I encourage you to look into the enormous amount of research that has been done on differences between men and women in our current society and what might cause those differences. If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it.
- neonological 6y ago>If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it. I can be definite about anything I want. Additionally, how do you know I haven't already looked at the enormous amount of research? Either way, the research supports my views in a pretty definitive way. I'm just saying that game genres should cater to the definite biological differences in interests between men and women. Do you disagree? Fine. I accept your disagreement. Let's agree to disagree and not let this turn into a gender flame war. I'm not going to reply this thread.
- lazyasciiart 6y agoI was giving you the benefit of the doubt that if you'd looked at research, you'd know better than to make definitive statements or to rely on your personal anecdotes from toddlerhood. I was also assuming that you were not actually intending to make inflammatory statements prompting people to correct you (what you are probably referring to as a gender flame war), but from your various responses I am no longer sure that assumption is valid. It's somewhat ironic that your participation here consists of a) a thread where you strenuously argue that it is not possible to make definite claims of truth backed by science b) a claim that you know the definite truth about a particular scientific question.
- neonological 6y agoHey, stop being a creeper. Don't stalk my old posts, wtf.
- est31 6y agoLink to a study about the subject: https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/ https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre...
- maxflow2 6y agoStardew Valley subreddit poll (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScdywbXfs07mL6OARU_BPEI4Lj_H24GrmNwtEaegIZr0Wt97g/viewanalytics https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScdywbXfs07mL6OARU_...) had almost as many women as men. Dragon Age: Inquisition demographics (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NickYee/20170120/289534/Beyond_5050_Breaking_Down_The_Percentage_of_Female_Gamers_by_Genre.phphttp://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NickYee/20170120/289534/Beyond_5050_Breaking_Down_The_Percentage_of_Female_Gamers_by_Genre.php https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NickYee/20170120/289534/Beyo...) also boasts 48% female which is very high compared to genre averages. There is likely a lot of untapped market in the RPG and simulation genres if games want to cater more to women. Probably less so in stuff like FPS.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoDon't overlook https://www.bigfishgames.com/us/en.html https://www.bigfishgames.com/us/en.html . I remember a comment on HN years ago pointing out that there seems to be virtually no awareness of Big Fish in places you might expect, like computer game journalism or computer enthusiast forums, despite the fact that they essentially fill the market niche of "Steam for women".
- nitwit005 6y agoIt doesn't matter when it comes to owners and investors. They can hire female writers and artists to create products aimed at women. Realistically, since the gaming market is global, no individual will be representative of the market. Japanese women aren't going to know what Mexican women want in mobile games.
- Ygg2 6y agoMobile gaming isn't gaming. Most of the games are just thinly veiled gambling machines, with few outliers.
- andrewzah 6y agoLet's not gatekeep gaming. Playing games is gaming. There are plenty of actual games on mobile. Just because you don't play those games, doesn't mean mobile gaming as a whole isn't "gaming".
- xodice 6y agoPlaying a game is gaming. Just because you personally do not like a genre doesn't instantly make it not a game... Even people playing board games are still gamers. People playing sports are gamers. They just play different game genres than you. A game is a game.
- Ygg2 6y ago> Playing a game is gaming. > A game is a game. If that was true we wouldn't regulate gambling. After all. It's just a game. Of chance. Right? And,yes I am pro regulating video game, especially lootboxes.
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- xodice 6y agoYes, of course gambling is a game of chance. I don't get what you're getting at? I also am for regulating loot boxes, I still do not see how that changes the fact a game is a game.
- Ygg2 6y agoDo you count gamblers as gamers then? Because you then enter a contradiction. Because gamblers aren't (video) gamers. They are more people addicted to a mechanic and less about enjoying the medium.
- xwdv 6y agoI always recommend women capitalize on this as soon as they can as eventually the novelty will wear off and payouts will come back to earth. It’s already happening in certain niches.
- derefr 6y agoTo be cynical about this: why do you expect it will increasingly be women capitalizing on women’s interests in new media (i.e. producing content with the aim of amassing a large female following), rather than men? After all, this was never the case in old media; the investors/producers, directors/editors, writers, etc. of most women’s magazines, TV shows, etc. are mostly men. Why wouldn’t the boy’s club carry on?
- exporectomy 6y agoNo doubt it'll be men as usual. But why not? Businesses exist to serve society, not to serve the businessmen(or women). It's the customers who matter.
- lathiat 6y agoBecause with current times, the historically low cost of technology including video production and software development plus the ability to command an audience over the internet make it easier for those outside of the Boys/Hollywood/Silicon Valley/whatever club to break out and be successful than it once was.
- mikepurvis 6y agoI think it depends a lot on who is considered to be the "producers" in the current indie media ecosystem. You can run your own streaming channel for basically nothing (maybe $200 for a decent camera, microphone, and capture card), but it takes a lot of hustle to make any money doing that, and you could easily argue that the real producers in this scenario are the PMs and executives at Twitch and YouTube, who may not be old-guard media people, but are almost certainly still a bunch of mostly older white dudes. Maybe they're not calling the shots on content in quite the same way as TV executive, but they're definitely the ones getting rich off of it, anyway.
- nitemice 6y agoI hope this is the case, however a lower barrier to entry also means those who could afford to clear the old barriers can come into this new space, leveraging the new technology in concert with their pots of money and make a bigger splash than any new player can afford. It wouldn't be the first time that a small creator has had their idea ripped off by someone with money, and be left in their shadow. That said, it doesn't mean that those new creators couldn't still be "successful" in such a situation. Just that someone else with more money is still making more money than them.
- ROARosen 6y agoSure the creators are women, but the trend which is rising regarding the games is about games targeting female audiences. Which is quite the opposite of advertisers preferring female creators, which is not taking into account the target audience.
- kitd 6y agoIt's not unrelated though. It reminds me of savvy car companies in the 1980s who realized there was a huge untapped market for cars that appeal to women. So the best way to deal with that was to bring in female designers. I'd imagine the effect is similar here.
- joubert 6y agoExactly. Representation, diversity is good for business.
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- didibus 6y agoThat's very possible, but I think in gaming there is this idea that maybe men can't make games that attract females? So at least possibly the creative team would need to be mostly female to be successful. I don't know if that's true, but it could be either men don't understand as well what attracts female gamers, or they're not interested in making those kind of games.
- jhanschoo 6y agoIt's probably less "men can't make games that attract females" and more "risky to explore game design other than what we know makes money that have historically been attracting men more than women". e.g. note from the article that "Twin Sisters" failed to raise venture capital money.
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoThis article seems to præsent it as though it be news that there is a female commercial market, which is odd to say the least. “otome” as a genre by the way is little more than living out a phantasy of being highly sexually desirable. It's part of the bizarrely popular “harem” genre in Japan, which comprises fiction and video games whose entire plot can be surmised as “The entire cast of attractive characters all fall in love with the protagonist and seem to exist for no other reason than to fall in love with the protagonist.”. — there seems to be a somewhat larger male than female market for this, but the female market is still quite large, and it's as much trash as my description would suggest. — it is really nothing more than plotless wish fulfillment. The drawing in the article of the many is very indicative of the otome harem, indeed. In any case, this article speaks as though they hit some kind of untapped hole in the market, but it's a drop in the bucket.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago> præsent > auctor [from another comment of yours] Where did you learn this style? What effect are you going for here? Are you from a non-English speaking country? An especially fussy part of Britain? Your English looks flawless, except that you seem to wish you could replace some English words with related Latin words.
- sofixa 6y agoYou missed > phantasy As well. I'm also really curious about the writing style and choices.
- tremon 6y agoThe username is Dutch and means "ostentatious" (more or less). I wouldn't think too deeply about it.
- wccrawford 6y agoMaybe they're a chuunibyou. ... Or pretending to be one? It's that too meta?
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- nicbou 6y agoThe one I always think of is motorcycles. The appeal of riding is universal, and manufacturers are very slowly waking up to that fact. This seems weird to me, because the appeal is quite similar to that of van life, which has a much more diverse group of influencers.
- astrange 6y agoAren't motorcycles incredibly dangerous? That's the first thing I think of when I see them. Maybe being able to lane split in traffic.
- danparsonson 6y agoAs with any tool it depends how you use them - lane splitting is indeed very risky but by no means a requirement.
- nicbou 6y agoYes, but I'm not sure how it relates to the discussion
- tremon 6y agoThey're probably alluding to the stereotype that boys are more adventurous and girls more risk-averse, which informs why motorcycles are marketed mostly to boys/men.
- llampx 6y agoWhen people think motorcycles, they don't usually think traffic and commuting.
- watwut 6y agoThey are heavy and require strenght to be driven. Plus, as I was explained, your own weight limits how large motocycle you can comfortably drive.
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- HerbMcM 6y agoI'm not sure why this particular firm was picked as a 'first' for Otome games, when they have been a thing for a very long time. Even from the hardship angle it seems odd, considering there's Idea Factory (or its otome subsidiaries at least) being female led since their earliest days, and they had to do it many years ago when it would arguably be harder to do so.
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoQuite. As I said in another comment, this article makes it seem as though it be some kind of hole in the market that they tapped into. This is really not remarkable; otome games and fiction are common place and a big market indeed. It's as though it be præsented as news that some firm made a first person shooter.
- square_usual 6y agoI think it's notable for the recency of the event (their IPO). The article doesn't call them a first, though, just mentions this event as notable.
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoWhich it is not. The first otome game is generally considered Angelique, and was released in 1994. There is a rather big franchise called Ouran High School Host Club, which started in 2002, which is a parody on the otome genre and assumes that the audience be familiar with it, as it mocks it's clichés. There is absolutely nothing new or newsworthy about the existence of otome games and some of the comments in this thread really make me aware of how every news article appears accurate, safe for the one about the subject one happens to be somewhat knowledgable in oneself. It makes me realize that most likely I have also been making such comments from other news articles, not realizing how much the article was sensationalized dreck news that attempted to arouse a false impression.
- iandanforth 6y agoHow does this story not have a comment from the founders or even a quote from a public source?
- medecau 6y agoCould it be because HN is not a welcoming place to "females"?
- srl 6y agoI believe the parent was asking why the BBC article didn't have a comment --- not why the founders hadn't commented on this page. I hope you'll agree that the social environment of HN probably doesn't have much influence on BBC's writing or editorial practices.
- ekianjo 6y agoBecause BBC has turned into a tabloid in recent years. I wish I were joking.
- square_usual 6y agoIf I had to guess, I think it might be because of the language and cultural barrier. Definitely think that's more likely than any malice on the part of the BBC.
- michaelt 6y agoThe BBC literally has their own Japanese-language news site - http://www.bbc.com/japanese http://www.bbc.com/japanese - complete with journalists and an editor based in Tokyo. It's a shame they weren't able to leverage their resources to add first-hand information to the report.
- exporectomy 6y agoWorth being aware that this genre is essentially romance novels in game form. So it's capitalizing on sex drive, just like porn does, not some clever nuanced understanding of how to make conventional games appeal to women. Nothing wrong with that, but the article hides the fact for some reason.
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- waheoo 6y agoPot, meet kettle. Games are still sex filled escapism. News at 11.
- arcticbull 6y agoI didn't realize Factorio was sex-filled escapism! Here I thought it was just vanilla escapism. I'll have to give it another go next time I find 6 straight months I don't mind blotting out.
- Bakary 6y agoFactorio and its genre are escapism to an alternate fantasy world where there is a clear and linear connection to effort and reward. It's almost sexual in a way
- whelming_wave 6y agoFactorio might not be, but that doesn't mean Huniepop is going to win awards for its writing.
- watwut 6y agoI dont understand why this is downvoted. Huniepop was popular and praised and succesfull. There was also some controversy about it, sure. It was basically romance for men.
- cm2012 6y agoMy wife loves these kind of games, they make her happy.
- washadjeffmad 6y agoI accidentally started reading a manga about two otaku who try dating[1], and otome games are a theme. I realize I didn't see a lot of it in Japan, but I guess that's the power of otaku stigma over there. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wotakoi:_Love_Is_Hard_for_Otaku https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wotakoi:_Love_Is_Hard_for_Otak...
- forks34 6y agoTwin sisters? Call them game developers or entrepreneurs and if you want to highlight their sex just write out female in front but don’t degrade them them to being twin sisters.
- renewiltord 6y agoPeople frequently refer to the Winklevoss twins or the Collison brothers. Or even (considering the topic) the Super Mario Bros. I don't think any degradation is intended. It's just an interesting fact.
- hnlmorg 6y agoAgreed. Some more examples (just off the top of my head): Wright Brothers, Property Brothers, Marx Brothers, Brothers Grimm....
- Austin_Conlon 6y agoThe Russo Brothers.
- ggm 6y agoKoch Brothers. Aldi Brothers. The Dolly Sisters (wait.. bad example.. maybe.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Sisters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Sisters)
- Traster 6y agoIn all your examples (and the examples the person replying to you has made) the descriptions don't lose the persons identity. People refer to the "Winklevoss brothers" they don't appear in headlines as "Twin brothers...". They're refered to by their name, as well as the fact they're brothers - it's easier to refer to the fact that they're both Winklevoss and just say Winklevoss brothers. Whereas in this headline, the sisters' identities are erased- they only exist as twin sisters with no identity. In all these examples - Winklevoss twins, Collison brothers, Wright Brothers, Property Brothers, Marx Brothers, Brothers Grimm, Russo Brothers... they all actually name the brothers. The title of this article is really weird - it anonymises the businesswomen and attributes their wealth to the work of other people. I don't object to it strongly, but I do think it's a kind of backwards way of writing the title. This title could be perfectly applied to some charity kickstarter run by female gamers for some twins that are in need.
- fxtentacle 6y agoI believe the real news is "took their seven-year-old mobile games studio public Friday, and the stock doubled" which is impressive, but one of them had been in investment banking before and both appear to have been independently wealthy before. Plus their games serve a well established genre. So this isn't quite the new idea rags to riches story that it is presented as. Mostly, this says a lot about how Japanese society still has clear gender roles.
- gher-shyu3i 6y ago> Mostly, this says a lot about how Japanese society still has clear gender roles. What are you implying? That that's a bad thing? Otherwise, I apologize for assuming incorrectly.
- mod 6y agoI just read it as an observation, not a judgement. Not GP but I'm glad there's some variety in the world.
- AndrewDucker 6y agoSurely you get more variety when not pushing people into roles?
- Erlich_Bachman 6y agoYes, and the variety that you get will not look like 50%/50% gender spread in every single field and profession, because there are innate differences between genders that come to the surface the more you remove social pressure and tyranny. That's literally the core argument of what Jordan B Peterson has been saying, and he has been getting a lot of flak in the mainstream media for that. So it's a controversial topic for some reason.
- vmception 6y agowhich has nothing to do with video games, investment banking, and identifying capital misallocation in certain sectors for maximum money
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- _ZeD_ 6y agoIt's totally OT, but I find mesmerizing the video inside the article describing "how to draw Totoro from a leading anime film producer". Now I'm scribbling all over my block notes :)