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I realise this is an opinion du jour around here now, but it's a pretty paranoid take on the market economy. I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will conta

I realise this is an opinion du jour around here now, but it's a pretty paranoid take on the market economy. I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will contain coke because coke want to keep selling me coke. They don't need to be good people, they just have to care about making money in the future. The fact that I think they care about that is why I can trust that the can of coke in fact contains coke with high probability.

amelius 6y ago
> I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will contain coke because coke want to keep selling me coke. Perhaps but if the company could sell you more coke by having your personal data, it would be silly to assume they would not explore that route.
einpoklum 6y ago
> I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will contain coke because coke want to keep selling me coke You don't even know what coke is, since that formula is kept secret (well, Coca Cola's at least). Also, in some countries, you'll get high-fructose corn syrup instead of cane sugar, which is believed to increase the risk of fatty liver disease, obesity etc. (caveat: Some believe the evidence is not conclusive enough for certainty.) And why don't they just "sell you coke" everywhere? Because it makes them more money. And the raison d'etre of a commercial company/corporation is pecuniary gain. Profiting. Making money. Management is obligated to act so as to maximize profit (under legal obligations etc. etc.) This brings us to your first point: > it's a pretty paranoid take on the market economy. No, it's literally what commercial companies' charters and fundamental structure requires. No conspiracy theory or paranoia. In context of spying - if the company has determined their profits would improve by them spying on you, and that they can get away with it - then it's pretty likely they will indeed spy on you.
- conjectures 6y ago
  The point is that if I want a can of sugar water (or aspartame) I can reliably find one. I'm unlikely to pop the tab and find kombucha or sand. 'Companies are out to make money' is not the debate trump card you seem to think it is. In fact the same view is embedded in my previous comment. The question is, given it's true what's the range of phenomena that result, what works well, what badly etc?
krageon 6y ago
> market economy If your argument for the market economy working in a way that shouldn't inspire paranoia is based on trust and distinguished consumer choice, you've not been paying attention to world news or you're arguing in bad faith.
- conjectures 6y ago
  > If your argument for the market economy working in a way that shouldn't inspire paranoia is based on trust and distinguished consumer choice, you've not been paying attention to world news or you're arguing in bad faith. No, I think you missed the point. It's based on greedy organisations being predictable. Amazon will send stuff we order so that we buy more stuff from them. Electricity grid with zero regulation will fail to invest in preventative measures against extreme events. Trust or distrust arises from the particular game theoretic situation we're talking about. Simply thinking every corporation will screw us at every moment is the paranoia.
hrktb 6y ago
When we buy genuine Xiaomi lightbulbs it’s definitely Xiaomi lightbulbs in the package, that’s not the argument. The question is what happens at the purchase time, and afterwards. To bring back the coke you love, there’s Coca-Cola vending machine that will accept payment from a cell phone, linking with the vending machine through NFC. What happens to you info when you download the app, what do they do with your purchase history ? Do your data stay in the ‘coke’ silo or move to all the other sister brands and partner marketing firms to infinity and beyond ? Do they scan the other apps on your phone to better profile you ? Do they lobby where you live to get rid of blocking rules when they track you buy less because of them ? That’s the questions that would come with ‘buying a coke’

amelius 6y ago

> I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will contain coke because coke want to keep selling me coke. Perhaps but if the company could sell you more coke by having your personal data, it would be silly to assume they would not explore that route.

einpoklum 6y ago

> I trust that if I buy a can of coke, it will contain coke because coke want to keep selling me coke You don't even know what coke is, since that formula is kept secret (well, Coca Cola's at least). Also, in some countries, you'll get high-fructose corn syrup instead of cane sugar, which is believed to increase the risk of fatty liver disease, obesity etc. (caveat: Some believe the evidence is not conclusive enough for certainty.) And why don't they just "sell you coke" everywhere? Because it makes them more money. And the raison d'etre of a commercial company/corporation is pecuniary gain. Profiting. Making money. Management is obligated to act so as to maximize profit (under legal obligations etc. etc.) This brings us to your first point: > it's a pretty paranoid take on the market economy. No, it's literally what commercial companies' charters and fundamental structure requires. No conspiracy theory or paranoia. In context of spying - if the company has determined their profits would improve by them spying on you, and that they can get away with it - then it's pretty likely they will indeed spy on you.

conjectures 6y ago
The point is that if I want a can of sugar water (or aspartame) I can reliably find one. I'm unlikely to pop the tab and find kombucha or sand. 'Companies are out to make money' is not the debate trump card you seem to think it is. In fact the same view is embedded in my previous comment. The question is, given it's true what's the range of phenomena that result, what works well, what badly etc?

krageon 6y ago

> market economy If your argument for the market economy working in a way that shouldn't inspire paranoia is based on trust and distinguished consumer choice, you've not been paying attention to world news or you're arguing in bad faith.

conjectures 6y ago
> If your argument for the market economy working in a way that shouldn't inspire paranoia is based on trust and distinguished consumer choice, you've not been paying attention to world news or you're arguing in bad faith. No, I think you missed the point. It's based on greedy organisations being predictable. Amazon will send stuff we order so that we buy more stuff from them. Electricity grid with zero regulation will fail to invest in preventative measures against extreme events. Trust or distrust arises from the particular game theoretic situation we're talking about. Simply thinking every corporation will screw us at every moment is the paranoia.

hrktb 6y ago

When we buy genuine Xiaomi lightbulbs it’s definitely Xiaomi lightbulbs in the package, that’s not the argument. The question is what happens at the purchase time, and afterwards. To bring back the coke you love, there’s Coca-Cola vending machine that will accept payment from a cell phone, linking with the vending machine through NFC. What happens to you info when you download the app, what do they do with your purchase history ? Do your data stay in the ‘coke’ silo or move to all the other sister brands and partner marketing firms to infinity and beyond ? Do they scan the other apps on your phone to better profile you ? Do they lobby where you live to get rid of blocking rules when they track you buy less because of them ? That’s the questions that would come with ‘buying a coke’