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There seems to have been a steady stream of posts hyping NFTs lately. > In October 2020, Miami-based art collector Pablo Rodriguez-Fraile spent almost $67,000

There seems to have been a steady stream of posts hyping NFTs lately. > In October 2020, Miami-based art collector Pablo Rodriguez-Fraile spent almost $67,000 on a 10-second video artwork that he could have watched for free online. Last week, he sold it for $6.6 million. And I believe in several comments, it's been explained that fake "sales" (really transfers from someone's left hand to right hand) are really easy to implement in order to inflate the "price" of an NFT on the blockchain. So did someone really part with $6.6 million for this token, and if so did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine?

krageon 6y ago
> did that person actually earn that money Every time I make the point that the entire "financial" system and all it's associated people are shameless parasites everyone falls over each other to tell me that is a load of nonsense. The same goes for you here.
- duxup 6y ago
  Can you explain what your comment has to do with the parent comment you replied to?
  - capableweb 6y ago
    That whatever people say is happening with NFTs today has been happening elsewhere for a very long time already. NFTs on the blockchain might suffer the same issue, but it'll be easier to track down what actually happened, both in real time and retrospectively.
    - duxup 6y ago
      I feel like it's almost a meme where anytime this topic comes up there's a lot of comments that argue that whatever new thing 'this is just like the existing system'. I don't think that's the point, and meanwhile everyone else is actually asking more specific questions. But the meme continues on in every discussion.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - krageon 6y ago
        There's no profound discussion going on in the parent thread, it's all rehashing of the same arguments. People saying "well this is worse" and folks responding with "it's not worse, because it's the same". Fundamentally I just don't see why it's different, and nobody has been able to explain the difference in a way that doesn't sound like a scam artist. Therefore, it must be the same. I don't see why one system must be criticised above and beyond the other when they do the exact same thing.
ketamine__ 6y ago
The terms of many of these auctions give a percentage of the sale to the original creator. I don't know the terms but it's possible Mike Winkelmann got quite a bit from the resale.
- tablespoon 6y ago
  > The terms of many of these auctions give a percentage of the sale to the original creator. I don't know the terms but it's possible Mike Winkelmann got quite a bit from the resale. I guess the suspicion I have is that someone who's heavily invested in NFT marketplaces may have arranged this to hype them. And that category may even include this artist, Mike Winkelmann. According to the article linked here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26303420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26303420, he'd only ever sold his artwork once before listing it for sale on some NFT marketplace in December 2020 and immediately hitting jackpot. > Mike Winkelmann never used to call himself an artist. But that was before he made $3.5 million in a single weekend from selling his artworks. In December, he auctioned off multiple editions of three digital artworks, each priced at $969, and 21 unique works, most of which sold for about $100,000 each. It was only the second time he had put his art on sale. The alternative, which is I think is also very possible, is this is just lucky cryptocurrency money hoping luck strikes twice.
notretarded 6y ago
>win it from the Bitcoin slot machine Jealous much
anm89 6y ago
> did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? Is it convertible to USD which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights? If so who cares?
- tablespoon 6y ago
  > Is it convertible to USD which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights? If so who cares. $6.6 million is going to be treated a lot differently by someone who worked hard to build that fortune, vs. someone who won it (e.g. from a lotto ticket or by buying $1000 of bitcoins on Mt. Gox on a lark for a $1/per).
  - anm89 6y ago
    Sure. I hope they commission a $6 million dollar painting of themself with Napoleon's body and unicorns in the background. It's their money. They can waste it however they want. And unlike your extremely simplistic worldview, it's very possible they'll do something that will create long term value for them. They don't owe it to you to do that though.
    - tablespoon 6y ago
      > Sure. I hope they commission a $6 million dollar painting of themself with Napoleon's body and unicorns in the background. It's their money. They can waste it however they want. You're missing the point: the question is what this $6.6 million transaction for this token mean? Does it mean these NFTs are starting to be taken seriously? Does it mean someone's hyping the tech through a shady transaction? Or does it mean some bozo who won the lotto was willing to blow some money on one? Winning lotto tickets can also be convertible to USD, which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights. Noting that doesn't reveal anything about the differences between how lotto winners spend vs. other people. > And unlike your extremely simplistic worldview Excuse me?
      - anm89 6y ago
godelzilla 6y ago
>did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? Adults actually believe that people "earn" money? smh.
notyourday 6y ago
> So did someone really part with $6.6 million for this token, and if so did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? The solution to that problem is amazingly simple: IRS. Whoever made that money, fake or not, gets to pay taxes on $6.6M USD.
- ac29 6y ago
  Florida has a state sales tax as well, and I'm sure they'd like their cut.
- baobabKoodaa 6y ago
  Nope. Even if the "seller" pays taxes on that 6.6M we still won't know if he just paid himself that money. If you have 6.6M of dirty money, this seems like a nice way of washing it clean.
CryptoPunk 6y ago
>>So did someone really part with $6.6 million for this token, and if so did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? When you dismiss the concept of cryptocurrency, and another party sings its praises, and argues it will attain massive market value, and the latter ends up profiting from their judgment, they earned their gains. Now when you claim they won the slot machine, you're trying to diminish their accomplishment, and delegitimize their moral right to their success.
marakv2 6y ago
I'm not familiar with the example you gave, but what if it's just an old school tax write-off? "Buy" something for crazy value, whilw knowing the buyer, then later get that money back and claim (some strange tax law) it on tax? Edit: Ahh I missed you part about other comments, I guess I was pretty close

krageon 6y ago

> did that person actually earn that money Every time I make the point that the entire "financial" system and all it's associated people are shameless parasites everyone falls over each other to tell me that is a load of nonsense. The same goes for you here.

duxup 6y ago
Can you explain what your comment has to do with the parent comment you replied to?
- capableweb 6y ago
  That whatever people say is happening with NFTs today has been happening elsewhere for a very long time already. NFTs on the blockchain might suffer the same issue, but it'll be easier to track down what actually happened, both in real time and retrospectively.
  - duxup 6y ago
    I feel like it's almost a meme where anytime this topic comes up there's a lot of comments that argue that whatever new thing 'this is just like the existing system'. I don't think that's the point, and meanwhile everyone else is actually asking more specific questions. But the meme continues on in every discussion.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - krageon 6y ago
      There's no profound discussion going on in the parent thread, it's all rehashing of the same arguments. People saying "well this is worse" and folks responding with "it's not worse, because it's the same". Fundamentally I just don't see why it's different, and nobody has been able to explain the difference in a way that doesn't sound like a scam artist. Therefore, it must be the same. I don't see why one system must be criticised above and beyond the other when they do the exact same thing.

ketamine__ 6y ago

The terms of many of these auctions give a percentage of the sale to the original creator. I don't know the terms but it's possible Mike Winkelmann got quite a bit from the resale.

tablespoon 6y ago
> The terms of many of these auctions give a percentage of the sale to the original creator. I don't know the terms but it's possible Mike Winkelmann got quite a bit from the resale. I guess the suspicion I have is that someone who's heavily invested in NFT marketplaces may have arranged this to hype them. And that category may even include this artist, Mike Winkelmann. According to the article linked here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26303420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26303420, he'd only ever sold his artwork once before listing it for sale on some NFT marketplace in December 2020 and immediately hitting jackpot. > Mike Winkelmann never used to call himself an artist. But that was before he made $3.5 million in a single weekend from selling his artworks. In December, he auctioned off multiple editions of three digital artworks, each priced at $969, and 21 unique works, most of which sold for about $100,000 each. It was only the second time he had put his art on sale. The alternative, which is I think is also very possible, is this is just lucky cryptocurrency money hoping luck strikes twice.

notretarded 6y ago

>win it from the Bitcoin slot machine Jealous much

anm89 6y ago

> did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? Is it convertible to USD which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights? If so who cares?

tablespoon 6y ago
> Is it convertible to USD which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights? If so who cares. $6.6 million is going to be treated a lot differently by someone who worked hard to build that fortune, vs. someone who won it (e.g. from a lotto ticket or by buying $1000 of bitcoins on Mt. Gox on a lark for a $1/per).
- anm89 6y ago
  Sure. I hope they commission a $6 million dollar painting of themself with Napoleon's body and unicorns in the background. It's their money. They can waste it however they want. And unlike your extremely simplistic worldview, it's very possible they'll do something that will create long term value for them. They don't owe it to you to do that though.
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    > Sure. I hope they commission a $6 million dollar painting of themself with Napoleon's body and unicorns in the background. It's their money. They can waste it however they want. You're missing the point: the question is what this $6.6 million transaction for this token mean? Does it mean these NFTs are starting to be taken seriously? Does it mean someone's hyping the tech through a shady transaction? Or does it mean some bozo who won the lotto was willing to blow some money on one? Winning lotto tickets can also be convertible to USD, which can easily be used to buy kitchen appliances, and pants and flights. Noting that doesn't reveal anything about the differences between how lotto winners spend vs. other people. > And unlike your extremely simplistic worldview Excuse me?
    - anm89 6y ago

godelzilla 6y ago

>did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? Adults actually believe that people "earn" money? smh.

notyourday 6y ago

> So did someone really part with $6.6 million for this token, and if so did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? The solution to that problem is amazingly simple: IRS. Whoever made that money, fake or not, gets to pay taxes on $6.6M USD.

ac29 6y ago
Florida has a state sales tax as well, and I'm sure they'd like their cut.
baobabKoodaa 6y ago
Nope. Even if the "seller" pays taxes on that 6.6M we still won't know if he just paid himself that money. If you have 6.6M of dirty money, this seems like a nice way of washing it clean.

CryptoPunk 6y ago

>>So did someone really part with $6.6 million for this token, and if so did that person actually earn that money, or just win it from the Bitcoin slot machine? When you dismiss the concept of cryptocurrency, and another party sings its praises, and argues it will attain massive market value, and the latter ends up profiting from their judgment, they earned their gains. Now when you claim they won the slot machine, you're trying to diminish their accomplishment, and delegitimize their moral right to their success.

marakv2 6y ago

I'm not familiar with the example you gave, but what if it's just an old school tax write-off? "Buy" something for crazy value, whilw knowing the buyer, then later get that money back and claim (some strange tax law) it on tax? Edit: Ahh I missed you part about other comments, I guess I was pretty close