7 ms·

Tag manager loads more than just tracking scripts.

waheoo 6y ago
Yes, thats their point, its the thing that loads all the fucking ads. Please don't suggest it loads other meaningful things. May as well claim torrenting is used for downloading Linux isos so its not a piracy problem.
- lambda_obrien 6y ago
  Well, i personally always use the torrent when i download an iso... But I also have gtm black holed.
- harry8 6y ago
  >May as well claim torrenting is used for downloading Linux isos so its not a piracy problem. May as well claim the internet is used for something other than piracy so it's not a piracy problem. See how silly that is?
  - waheoo 6y ago
    No because you're using the reverse of my example to make my example look silly but infact you just prove my point. May as well claim it's silly to not try to prove negatives.
    - harry8 6y ago
      A) Here is a computer communication protocol that can be used for many things. One of those things is infringing copyright. B) Here is another computer communication protocol that can be used for many things. One of those things is infringing copyright. The internet, being the IP protocol and the bit torrent protocol built on top of IP each are described above. Differentiate A from B identifying which is IP and which is Bit torrent. This demonstrates the silliness of the argument made. You either have principles and rules applied equally or you don't. I'm very, very much for the former. Being a an utterly essential foundation of functioning democracy, the rule of law and opposition to the tyranny of government by whim.
- davb 6y ago
  Unfortunately it is indeed used for non-ad scripts. For example, Hearthstone on iOS fails to render the login page if GTM is blocked at DNS.
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
    Indeed, one perspective on using GTM is as another avenue to customizing websites without using a developer.
    - quicklime 6y ago
      Yep, that's exactly what a tag manager is. It lets the marketing department make changes, without the IT department getting involved and slowing things down with non-money-generating activities like code reviews or testing. It's used to add tracking and advertising. But I've also seen it used for chat bots and chat agents. I've even seen it used for bug fixes that designers wanted to get out the door quickly.
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
        Precisely
      - waheoo 6y ago
        I'm sorry, you lost me, where is the problem here?
        9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
        The problem that he seems to be alluding to is that general problem of WYSIWYG cp. bespoke software - in particular, when tools like GTM are used in a way that adds to requirements cruft and detracts from software reliability.
- LocalH 6y ago
  May as well claim air is breathed by non-pirates as well so it's not a piracy problem.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Every script it loads is a tracking script. They don't host that code out of an abundance of altruism.
- rsstack 6y ago
  That's not how tag managers work. Tag managers are managed by the website who pays them (it's yet another SaaS), and the website can put whatever it wants there. Various site functionality could break if parts of the site logic is missing. You can argue it is bad engineering, but it isn't exactly the tag manager's fault any more than it is the CDN's fault.
- minsc__and__boo 6y ago
  People use tag manager for tracking scripts, but it's also used for anything that you can put into a JS script (tracking or not). Not every script is a tracking script.

Yes, thats their point, its the thing that loads all the fucking ads. Please don't suggest it loads other meaningful things. May as well claim torrenting is used for downloading Linux isos so its not a piracy problem.

lambda_obrien 6y ago
Well, i personally always use the torrent when i download an iso... But I also have gtm black holed.
harry8 6y ago
>May as well claim torrenting is used for downloading Linux isos so its not a piracy problem. May as well claim the internet is used for something other than piracy so it's not a piracy problem. See how silly that is?
- waheoo 6y ago
  No because you're using the reverse of my example to make my example look silly but infact you just prove my point. May as well claim it's silly to not try to prove negatives.
  - harry8 6y ago
    A) Here is a computer communication protocol that can be used for many things. One of those things is infringing copyright. B) Here is another computer communication protocol that can be used for many things. One of those things is infringing copyright. The internet, being the IP protocol and the bit torrent protocol built on top of IP each are described above. Differentiate A from B identifying which is IP and which is Bit torrent. This demonstrates the silliness of the argument made. You either have principles and rules applied equally or you don't. I'm very, very much for the former. Being a an utterly essential foundation of functioning democracy, the rule of law and opposition to the tyranny of government by whim.
davb 6y ago
Unfortunately it is indeed used for non-ad scripts. For example, Hearthstone on iOS fails to render the login page if GTM is blocked at DNS.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
  Indeed, one perspective on using GTM is as another avenue to customizing websites without using a developer.
  - quicklime 6y ago
    Yep, that's exactly what a tag manager is. It lets the marketing department make changes, without the IT department getting involved and slowing things down with non-money-generating activities like code reviews or testing. It's used to add tracking and advertising. But I've also seen it used for chat bots and chat agents. I've even seen it used for bug fixes that designers wanted to get out the door quickly.
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
      Precisely
    - waheoo 6y ago
      I'm sorry, you lost me, where is the problem here?
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6y ago
        The problem that he seems to be alluding to is that general problem of WYSIWYG cp. bespoke software - in particular, when tools like GTM are used in a way that adds to requirements cruft and detracts from software reliability.
LocalH 6y ago
May as well claim air is breathed by non-pirates as well so it's not a piracy problem.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

Every script it loads is a tracking script. They don't host that code out of an abundance of altruism.

rsstack 6y ago
That's not how tag managers work. Tag managers are managed by the website who pays them (it's yet another SaaS), and the website can put whatever it wants there. Various site functionality could break if parts of the site logic is missing. You can argue it is bad engineering, but it isn't exactly the tag manager's fault any more than it is the CDN's fault.
minsc__and__boo 6y ago
People use tag manager for tracking scripts, but it's also used for anything that you can put into a JS script (tracking or not). Not every script is a tracking script.