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The point of Bitcoin now is not really payments. But it is a store of value. In that case, 30$ is not much for ability to send it anywhere in the world within m

The point of Bitcoin now is not really payments. But it is a store of value. In that case, 30$ is not much for ability to send it anywhere in the world within minutes and store it for free as long as you want. Compare that with gold, or any other asset. People supporting Bitcoin "Cash" are of the view that Bitcoin should be used for everyday transactions. They are really minority.

adventured 6y ago
> Compare that with gold, or any other asset. Depends on what you're trying to do of course. If you're looking to physically send gold somewhere, you're spot on. I can buy and sell GLD at a zero transaction cost. I can buy $100,000 of GLD at zero transaction cost, then sell it, then repeat that a hundred times. What will Coinbase charge for the same thing in Bitcoin for $10 million worth of transactions? I can also store that virtual gold purchase at a low cost indefinitely (GLD has a 0.4% annual fee that it extracts; IAU is 0.25%). After you account for fees, that is likely to compare well with using a service like Coinbase to store your Bitcoin.
- 177tcca 6y ago
  Coinbase ≠ the Bitcoin network. Ask the fees it would cost if years you were buying from someone, 1:1, privately.
blueblisters 6y ago
> The point of Bitcoin now is not really payments. But it is a store of value. Let's stop calling it crypto "currency" then since the point of any currency is to act as a medium of exchange. > In that case, 30$ is not much for ability to send it anywhere in the world within minutes and store it for free as long as you want. Compare that with gold, or any other asset. You can trade assets much more easily on highly sophisticated futures markets, much faster, cheaper and with higher liquidity. Too complex? You can buy an ETF that tracks a single asset like gold or a mix of assets like bonds, equities etc. There is nothing that bitcoin claims to be that isn't done better by existing financial instruments, except "decentralization".
- ericmay 6y ago
  Cryptocurrency is probably more of a third bucket - it's kind of like a hybrid. You have fiat - dollars, etc. You have gold, silver, etc. You have cyptocurrencies like Bitcoin. Some are more like fiat, some are more like gold, some are hybrids, like Bitcoin. Gold can be used as a medium of exchange for example and as a currency.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    The problem with Bitcoin is that there is literally no competition between currency and store of value except the block size. If anything, Bitcoin being used as a currency adds legitimacy and thus would strengthen Bitcoin over the long term. People who dismiss usage of a cryptocurrency as a means of payment really don't have the long term picture of the currency in mind. They're just in it to make a quick buck.
    - tradertef 6y ago
      >> People who dismiss usage of a cryptocurrency as a means of payment really don't have the long term picture of the currency in mind. Maybe. Currently Bitcoin is not suitable for using it as currency or medium of exchange. Second layer solutions can help with the speed (10 minutes confirmation time) and throughput issues (transactions per second). That and the fact that it is not very user friendly makes it difficult to be used as replacement for fiat at this time.
177tcca 6y ago
Historically, I am not long cryptocurrency, for the record. But I disagree. What makes "Bitcoin", or, if you'll allow, cryptocurrency keep becoming more popular isn't just hype. There's a lot, but I feel like there'd be more. No, it's because everyone has their own reason for using it. Some people want to hedge against x, and use Bitcoin. Some want to get paid but not subject their users to ads, and use BAT. Some want to exchange small amounts with friends on the net, or for food, and use Bitcoin Cash, or Litecoin, or whatever's currently got a stable-ish price, because it's that easy to swap in and out of cryptocurrencies. Cardano, for all of its technical flaws, has sentiment behind it to stand stable. Perhaps like Bitcoin this will come at the dismay of the technical community - or perhaps more people will realize with the current speed of information proliferation, we truly do live in a partially post-truth world. Sentiment is ALL that matters for these matters.
slindz 6y ago
I am in that minority. It breaks my heart the way Blockstream was brought in to intentionally kneecap Bitcoin.
packetlost 6y ago
Why the hell would you want a store of value that's perceived "value" fluctuates so much?
- splintercell 6y ago
  Why would you join the website when it has no members and its whole value proposition is that with a lot of members it would be very useful? Blockchain is currently being bootstrapped, but it's been criticized for not already having been bootstrapped.
  - packetlost 6y ago
    Bitcoin is over 12 years old. It's not being bootstraped. It's instability is inherent to the fact that it's value is based entirely on speculation
    - splintercell 6y ago
      > Bitcoin is over 12 years old. It's not being bootstraped. That's just your (incorrect) opinion. Bitcoin's price discovery is clearly not done. Even if you thought it is nothing but a complete scam, well then its true value is zero, and since it hasn't reached that, its price discovery is still going on.

adventured 6y ago

> Compare that with gold, or any other asset. Depends on what you're trying to do of course. If you're looking to physically send gold somewhere, you're spot on. I can buy and sell GLD at a zero transaction cost. I can buy $100,000 of GLD at zero transaction cost, then sell it, then repeat that a hundred times. What will Coinbase charge for the same thing in Bitcoin for $10 million worth of transactions? I can also store that virtual gold purchase at a low cost indefinitely (GLD has a 0.4% annual fee that it extracts; IAU is 0.25%). After you account for fees, that is likely to compare well with using a service like Coinbase to store your Bitcoin.

177tcca 6y ago
Coinbase ≠ the Bitcoin network. Ask the fees it would cost if years you were buying from someone, 1:1, privately.

blueblisters 6y ago

> The point of Bitcoin now is not really payments. But it is a store of value. Let's stop calling it crypto "currency" then since the point of any currency is to act as a medium of exchange. > In that case, 30$ is not much for ability to send it anywhere in the world within minutes and store it for free as long as you want. Compare that with gold, or any other asset. You can trade assets much more easily on highly sophisticated futures markets, much faster, cheaper and with higher liquidity. Too complex? You can buy an ETF that tracks a single asset like gold or a mix of assets like bonds, equities etc. There is nothing that bitcoin claims to be that isn't done better by existing financial instruments, except "decentralization".

ericmay 6y ago
Cryptocurrency is probably more of a third bucket - it's kind of like a hybrid. You have fiat - dollars, etc. You have gold, silver, etc. You have cyptocurrencies like Bitcoin. Some are more like fiat, some are more like gold, some are hybrids, like Bitcoin. Gold can be used as a medium of exchange for example and as a currency.
- imtringued 6y ago
  The problem with Bitcoin is that there is literally no competition between currency and store of value except the block size. If anything, Bitcoin being used as a currency adds legitimacy and thus would strengthen Bitcoin over the long term. People who dismiss usage of a cryptocurrency as a means of payment really don't have the long term picture of the currency in mind. They're just in it to make a quick buck.
  - tradertef 6y ago
    >> People who dismiss usage of a cryptocurrency as a means of payment really don't have the long term picture of the currency in mind. Maybe. Currently Bitcoin is not suitable for using it as currency or medium of exchange. Second layer solutions can help with the speed (10 minutes confirmation time) and throughput issues (transactions per second). That and the fact that it is not very user friendly makes it difficult to be used as replacement for fiat at this time.

177tcca 6y ago

Historically, I am not long cryptocurrency, for the record. But I disagree. What makes "Bitcoin", or, if you'll allow, cryptocurrency keep becoming more popular isn't just hype. There's a lot, but I feel like there'd be more. No, it's because everyone has their own reason for using it. Some people want to hedge against x, and use Bitcoin. Some want to get paid but not subject their users to ads, and use BAT. Some want to exchange small amounts with friends on the net, or for food, and use Bitcoin Cash, or Litecoin, or whatever's currently got a stable-ish price, because it's that easy to swap in and out of cryptocurrencies. Cardano, for all of its technical flaws, has sentiment behind it to stand stable. Perhaps like Bitcoin this will come at the dismay of the technical community - or perhaps more people will realize with the current speed of information proliferation, we truly do live in a partially post-truth world. Sentiment is ALL that matters for these matters.

slindz 6y ago

I am in that minority. It breaks my heart the way Blockstream was brought in to intentionally kneecap Bitcoin.

packetlost 6y ago

Why the hell would you want a store of value that's perceived "value" fluctuates so much?

splintercell 6y ago
Why would you join the website when it has no members and its whole value proposition is that with a lot of members it would be very useful? Blockchain is currently being bootstrapped, but it's been criticized for not already having been bootstrapped.
- packetlost 6y ago
  Bitcoin is over 12 years old. It's not being bootstraped. It's instability is inherent to the fact that it's value is based entirely on speculation
  - splintercell 6y ago
    > Bitcoin is over 12 years old. It's not being bootstraped. That's just your (incorrect) opinion. Bitcoin's price discovery is clearly not done. Even if you thought it is nothing but a complete scam, well then its true value is zero, and since it hasn't reached that, its price discovery is still going on.