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2021 version: 100 true fans. https://a16z.com/2020/02/06/100-true-fans/ https://a16z.com/2020/02/06/100-true-fans/

egypturnash 6y ago
Personally I'd rather have the larger number of people. If one fan decides to stop being 1/1000 of my income it's a much smaller worry than if 1/100 of my income walks away. Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them. With a broader fan base I mostly need to worry about doing creative work that pleases me. (I am an artist, and Patreon is a big chunk of how my finances work; this is based on my personal experience of how much stress I feel when a low-level patron leaves vs. a high-level one. Someone else will always show up to replace the low-level ones, not so much with the high-level ones.)
- herodoturtle 6y ago
  > Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them. With a broader fan base I mostly need to worry about doing creative work that pleases me. Woah. That was a beautifully put summary of something I (and I suspect many others) have intuitively known, but perhaps have never articulated so well. Framing it like this helps to make it a memorable guiding principle in all strategic decisions going forward. Just wanted to say thanks.
  - ignoramous 6y ago
    Lock-in those Whales and you can milk that Cow comfortably long enough.
    - scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
      Milk that Cow comfortably long enough and then you can break all the eggs you want.
      - ackbar03 6y ago
        Maybe you can break all the eggs you want, but your still gonna have a problem of that golden goose flies away someday
        Cerium 6y ago
        We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
        swilliamsio 6y ago
        Wow. Four jokes in a row. Is this a reddit thread or a hacker news thread? I can't tell any more.
        marcosdumay 6y ago
        It's four jokes carrying an actual worthy discussion. It has all the features of a mildly upvoted HN discussion or an infinitely downvoted Reddit one.
        rzzzt 6y ago
        A golden goose in the hand is worth two in the bush.
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    You’re welcome <3
- 1123581321 6y ago
  Well said. There's an essay from Jason Fried along those lines that I also like. https://m.signalvnoise.com/dont-let-anyone-overpay-you/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/dont-let-anyone-overpay-you/
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    Yeah that really drives to the heart of it. Sure, you get more money by serving a few whales, whether those be giant megacorps you customize your SaaS for, or people willing to pay a couple orders of magnitude more than anyone else for your artwork - but you're gonna have some powerful inducements to change what you make for those whales' needs, even if those are directions that lose you smaller fans. And when you lose one of those whales, it's a blow.
- teruakohatu 6y ago
  > Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them I completly understand where you are coming from, but most of our historical art is because of "whales", so all in all I don't think whales are bad for art. I am sure Leonardo would have preferred not to be under pressure from whichever prince he was currently working for, but did his art suffer? I am not saying a whale is required, van Gogh is a good example, but even van Gogh might have benefited from a whale.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
    This gets very tricky very fast though and not so simple. Those historical 'whales' you're referring to frequently would finance art for reasons bigger than just their own fancy or pleasure, for political reasons, for diplomacy, for communication, for power grabs. And then artists would have their own way with exerting their own power over the process as well.
    - dd36 6y ago
      As a store of value to launder money.
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    Did Leonardo's art suffer for being done for patrons? Maybe, who knows? What would he have created if he'd had some kind of Renaissance-era version of Patreon, with a thousand people willing to give him one measly florin a month to keep doing whatever he wanted to instead of painting the heck out of portraits of rich merchants and their families? As an artist, I feel that there is a sort of scale of priorities. Making money with my art skills is more fun than making money with any other way. But there are things I like to draw, and I'd rather make money drawing those instead of things I don't like to draw. And I'd generally rather make money by drawing whatever the heck my muse directs me to draw, instead of what I think is likely to sell, or what someone with a lot of money would like me to draw. Different people have different priorities, someone who's willing to draw whatever the hell comes their way probably makes more money than I do, and that's their choice. I have an artist friend who mostly dropped off the net for a few years because he was doing lots of very specific fetish art for a rich client who didn't want it posted anywhere, and was willing to pay handsomely for that. He was willing to do that, I wouldn't. He also had a kid to support, I don't. And... poor Vince certainly could have used a richer set of patrons, yeah. He could have used a lot of things. Possibly including some modern psychoactive chemicals. Dude was pretty fucked up.
- michaelt 6y ago
  I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure a larger fanbase necessarily gives you more creative freedom. After all, we've all heard of bands who'd rather be playing their new stuff, but who know the fans at concerts want to hear the old hits.
  - YinglingLight 6y ago
    You've never heard the story of the embittered simp, who was giving tens of thousands of dollars to camgirlA. The simp, upon discovering camgirlA fretting about dealing with an overbearing nuisance to Reddit (but one that pays her entire rent), vengefully withdraws all support donates to her rival, camgirlB. This is no model to live your life.
    - michaelt 6y ago
      Oh, I certainly agree people with a small number of customers have to keep giving those customers what they want in order to keep them as customers. I just think that's true for people with a large number of customers too. If customers have subscribed to my patreon to see my artwork of scantily clad anime ladies, I gotta keep giving them what they want whether I've got 100 customers paying $100/month or 10,000 customers paying $1/month.
      - YinglingLight 6y ago
        You don't have to care what people giving you small fractions of your livelihood think. You, as a creator, care, of course. But you don't need to care care. I am of the opinion that every established Content Creator starts to care less and less. And is better off for it! And I am also of the opinion that George RR Martin/JK Rowling/Tom Clancy/Stephen King loathe their most hardcore fans while being paid to attend Cons. Inevitable.
dang 6y ago
Discussed here: 1000 True Fans? Try 100 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263274 - Feb 2020 (217 comments)
DanielKehoe 6y ago
My story: I had 500 true fans for RailsApps at one point in 2014. They paid $20/month for my Rails tutorials, which supported my open source project. It was wonderful to discover that if you are passionate and deliver your best, often without a thought to monetization, you'll have fans. "100 True Fans" makes a case for capitalizing on that kind of popularity. But fans can be fickle and creators can lose their passion. Establishing a relationship between fans and a creator isn't the same as establishing a sustainable business.
- dstick 6y ago
  This story feels incomplete. How does it end? :)
  - DanielKehoe 6y ago
    The story hasn't really ended. I've traveled for six years in Europe, Africa, and Asia and met fans of RailsApps and my 'Learn Ruby on Rails' book everywhere. The tutorials and the book are all online and available for free (but long overdue for updates). There are now over 10K fans but I'm not attempting to monetize the interest. Now I'd like to build a more sustainable business that reaches more people. I still like Rails (and the wonderful Ruby community) but I'm diving into new passions that could have more impact.
gadders 6y ago
2021 would be 100 true OnlyFans.

Personally I'd rather have the larger number of people. If one fan decides to stop being 1/1000 of my income it's a much smaller worry than if 1/100 of my income walks away. Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them. With a broader fan base I mostly need to worry about doing creative work that pleases me. (I am an artist, and Patreon is a big chunk of how my finances work; this is based on my personal experience of how much stress I feel when a low-level patron leaves vs. a high-level one. Someone else will always show up to replace the low-level ones, not so much with the high-level ones.)

herodoturtle 6y ago
> Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them. With a broader fan base I mostly need to worry about doing creative work that pleases me. Woah. That was a beautifully put summary of something I (and I suspect many others) have intuitively known, but perhaps have never articulated so well. Framing it like this helps to make it a memorable guiding principle in all strategic decisions going forward. Just wanted to say thanks.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  Lock-in those Whales and you can milk that Cow comfortably long enough.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
    Milk that Cow comfortably long enough and then you can break all the eggs you want.
    - ackbar03 6y ago
      Maybe you can break all the eggs you want, but your still gonna have a problem of that golden goose flies away someday
      - Cerium 6y ago
        We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
        swilliamsio 6y ago
        Wow. Four jokes in a row. Is this a reddit thread or a hacker news thread? I can't tell any more.
        marcosdumay 6y ago
        It's four jokes carrying an actual worthy discussion. It has all the features of a mildly upvoted HN discussion or an infinitely downvoted Reddit one.
      - rzzzt 6y ago
        A golden goose in the hand is worth two in the bush.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  You’re welcome <3
1123581321 6y ago
Well said. There's an essay from Jason Fried along those lines that I also like. https://m.signalvnoise.com/dont-let-anyone-overpay-you/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/dont-let-anyone-overpay-you/
- egypturnash 6y ago
  Yeah that really drives to the heart of it. Sure, you get more money by serving a few whales, whether those be giant megacorps you customize your SaaS for, or people willing to pay a couple orders of magnitude more than anyone else for your artwork - but you're gonna have some powerful inducements to change what you make for those whales' needs, even if those are directions that lose you smaller fans. And when you lose one of those whales, it's a blow.
teruakohatu 6y ago
> Whales are nice to have but any financial model that includes them is gonna end up focusing on pleasing them I completly understand where you are coming from, but most of our historical art is because of "whales", so all in all I don't think whales are bad for art. I am sure Leonardo would have preferred not to be under pressure from whichever prince he was currently working for, but did his art suffer? I am not saying a whale is required, van Gogh is a good example, but even van Gogh might have benefited from a whale.
- scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
  This gets very tricky very fast though and not so simple. Those historical 'whales' you're referring to frequently would finance art for reasons bigger than just their own fancy or pleasure, for political reasons, for diplomacy, for communication, for power grabs. And then artists would have their own way with exerting their own power over the process as well.
  - dd36 6y ago
    As a store of value to launder money.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  Did Leonardo's art suffer for being done for patrons? Maybe, who knows? What would he have created if he'd had some kind of Renaissance-era version of Patreon, with a thousand people willing to give him one measly florin a month to keep doing whatever he wanted to instead of painting the heck out of portraits of rich merchants and their families? As an artist, I feel that there is a sort of scale of priorities. Making money with my art skills is more fun than making money with any other way. But there are things I like to draw, and I'd rather make money drawing those instead of things I don't like to draw. And I'd generally rather make money by drawing whatever the heck my muse directs me to draw, instead of what I think is likely to sell, or what someone with a lot of money would like me to draw. Different people have different priorities, someone who's willing to draw whatever the hell comes their way probably makes more money than I do, and that's their choice. I have an artist friend who mostly dropped off the net for a few years because he was doing lots of very specific fetish art for a rich client who didn't want it posted anywhere, and was willing to pay handsomely for that. He was willing to do that, I wouldn't. He also had a kid to support, I don't. And... poor Vince certainly could have used a richer set of patrons, yeah. He could have used a lot of things. Possibly including some modern psychoactive chemicals. Dude was pretty fucked up.
michaelt 6y ago
I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure a larger fanbase necessarily gives you more creative freedom. After all, we've all heard of bands who'd rather be playing their new stuff, but who know the fans at concerts want to hear the old hits.
- YinglingLight 6y ago
  You've never heard the story of the embittered simp, who was giving tens of thousands of dollars to camgirlA. The simp, upon discovering camgirlA fretting about dealing with an overbearing nuisance to Reddit (but one that pays her entire rent), vengefully withdraws all support donates to her rival, camgirlB. This is no model to live your life.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    Oh, I certainly agree people with a small number of customers have to keep giving those customers what they want in order to keep them as customers. I just think that's true for people with a large number of customers too. If customers have subscribed to my patreon to see my artwork of scantily clad anime ladies, I gotta keep giving them what they want whether I've got 100 customers paying $100/month or 10,000 customers paying $1/month.
    - YinglingLight 6y ago
      You don't have to care what people giving you small fractions of your livelihood think. You, as a creator, care, of course. But you don't need to care care. I am of the opinion that every established Content Creator starts to care less and less. And is better off for it! And I am also of the opinion that George RR Martin/JK Rowling/Tom Clancy/Stephen King loathe their most hardcore fans while being paid to attend Cons. Inevitable.

dang 6y ago

Discussed here: 1000 True Fans? Try 100 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263274 - Feb 2020 (217 comments)

DanielKehoe 6y ago

My story: I had 500 true fans for RailsApps at one point in 2014. They paid $20/month for my Rails tutorials, which supported my open source project. It was wonderful to discover that if you are passionate and deliver your best, often without a thought to monetization, you'll have fans. "100 True Fans" makes a case for capitalizing on that kind of popularity. But fans can be fickle and creators can lose their passion. Establishing a relationship between fans and a creator isn't the same as establishing a sustainable business.

dstick 6y ago
This story feels incomplete. How does it end? :)
- DanielKehoe 6y ago
  The story hasn't really ended. I've traveled for six years in Europe, Africa, and Asia and met fans of RailsApps and my 'Learn Ruby on Rails' book everywhere. The tutorials and the book are all online and available for free (but long overdue for updates). There are now over 10K fans but I'm not attempting to monetize the interest. Now I'd like to build a more sustainable business that reaches more people. I still like Rails (and the wonderful Ruby community) but I'm diving into new passions that could have more impact.

gadders 6y ago

2021 would be 100 true OnlyFans.