6 ms·

I would also argue that possibly doing it per time may be the wrong incentives. I have had issues that took me several hours to try to debug, only to have some

by kop316 6y ago

I would also argue that possibly doing it per time may be the wrong incentives. I have had issues that took me several hours to try to debug, only to have someone else show me how to fix it in under 2 minutes. So that dev gets paid $1, but I would easily pay much more for the fix in that issue because of how much time I sunk in it.

mlyle 6y ago
Like the old saw goes: The Graybeard engineer retired and a few weeks later the Big Machine broke down, which was essential to the company’s revenue. The Manager couldn’t get the machine to work again so the company called in Graybeard as an independent consultant. Graybeard agrees. He walks into the factory, takes a look at the Big Machine, grabs a sledge hammer, and whacks the machine once whereupon the machine starts right up. Graybeard leaves and the company is making money again. The next day Manager receives a bill from Graybeard for $5,000. Manager is furious at the price and refuses to pay. Graybeard assures him that it’s a fair price. Manager retorts that if it’s a fair price Graybeard won’t mind itemizing the bill. Graybeard agrees that this is a fair request and complies. The new, itemized bill reads…. Hammer: $5 Knowing where to hit the machine with hammer: $4995
- slt2021 6y ago
  you know that some developers intentionally add "time bomb" bugs and introduce bugs that trigger after certain period of time - just so that they knock it off with the hammer in one minute an justify their "maintenance support" contract. there was a story about one european company and an Excel spreadsheet with VBA code that would stop working after 3 months and a developer who would "unlock" it for another 3 mo if he has a maintenance contract
  - judge2020 6y ago
    The original PaaS!
    - ASalazarMX 6y ago
      Except you have to bring your own platform too! BYOPaaS?
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Well, don't get caught then I guess. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/12/contractor-admits-planting-logic-bombs-in-his-software-to-ensure-hed-get-new-work/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/12/contractor-admit... > On Monday, David A. Tinley, a 62-year-old from Harrison City, Pennsylvania, was sentenced to six months in prison and a fine of $7,500 in the scheme.
    - bumby 6y ago
      I wish the article said how he was caught
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        Initially, the offending code was password-protected. However: > While this worked for about two years until May 13, 2016, Tinley's scheme was discovered when he was out of town and he had to give his password to Siemens' employees because of a time-sensitive deadline that required the spreadsheets to work. Oops. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/siemens-contractor-jailed-for-sabotage-with-logic-bombs/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/siemens-contr...
    - abiogenesis 6y ago
      It just needs to look like a bug, not a feature.
  - corysama 6y ago
    Back in the days of Visual Source Safe you could roll your system clock forward and check something and it wouldn’t go into effect for everyone else until their clocks caught up. For example, 6 months after you leave the company.
    - klausjensen 6y ago
      I feel like there in an interesting story hiding under this comment! I would like to hear it. :)
  - erhk 6y ago
    You sound like the manager in that story looking for a way to mark down the fee
  - justatdotin 6y ago
    I experienced something similar early in my career. I was stunned when the old guy who'd been brought in for one day of consulting explained that he'd renamed his parameters with single characters to guarantee future work. but the GM had already given us a stern warning to show him respect. also he got around without the use of his legs. If I'd reacted as I wanted to it would not have gone down well...
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      > he'd renamed his parameters with single characters to guarantee future work. Then they hired an intern with compiler experience and suddenly his help wasn't needed anymore
      - justatdotin 6y ago
        well, kinda. anyway, legless ahole only got one day of high-rate consulting for his trouble.
      - shawn-furyan 6y ago
        I was recently having a conversation where I speculated that with how bad some programmers are at naming things, some code reviews might actually be easier if you ran them through a code obfuscator first, so you can focus on what the code does rather than being tricked into making invalid assumptions by misleading names.
        gnramires 6y ago
        This gives me a great inspiration for a programming puzzle and learning method: Replace all variable/function names with generics. Your only job is to give names to every variable (trying to figure out what each does). After you're done you can compare to de-obfuscated names to see if they do what you expected (if they're named sensibly).
        lookdangerous 6y ago
        Build the MVP!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pickle-wizard 6y ago
  I ran into that in real life. I had a plumbing problem in my house. I had a sink that was randomly filling up with clear cool water. When I used the sink it worked fine. Now I'm pretty handy, but I had no idea what was causing that to happen. So I called a plumber. I showed him the problem, and he immediately knew the cause. The condensation drain line for my AC ran to that sink. He suggested snaking the drain. He was there 10 minutes but that fixed the problem. He charged me $175 which was his minimum. I gladly paid it. I didn't view it as paying $175 for the fix, I viewed it as paying $175 for his expertise.
  - booleandilemma 6y ago
    You don’t pay me for what I do, you pay me for what I know.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    Plus, realistically in a case like that you're paying for him to... 1. Answer your call 2. Book off part of his schedule 3. Drive to your place <do the actual work> 4. Bill you and collect payment
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Especially if he tells you what the problem is, and how to fix it. Though it seems unlikely you’d ever encounter it again.
- redisman 6y ago
  Picasso also said something similar. This doodle didn’t take me 5 seconds, it took me my whole life
lend000 6y ago
I agree -- the ability to put a flat rate bounty (similar to what is done with non-monetary bounties on Stack Overflow) would be a better way of fair price discovery. Maybe even allow the devs to place bids on problems and auction the price down from a maximum price bounty.
gowld 6y ago
You'd get paid while listening to explanation and supervising the solution.

by kop316 6y ago

mlyle 6y ago

Like the old saw goes: The Graybeard engineer retired and a few weeks later the Big Machine broke down, which was essential to the company’s revenue. The Manager couldn’t get the machine to work again so the company called in Graybeard as an independent consultant. Graybeard agrees. He walks into the factory, takes a look at the Big Machine, grabs a sledge hammer, and whacks the machine once whereupon the machine starts right up. Graybeard leaves and the company is making money again. The next day Manager receives a bill from Graybeard for $5,000. Manager is furious at the price and refuses to pay. Graybeard assures him that it’s a fair price. Manager retorts that if it’s a fair price Graybeard won’t mind itemizing the bill. Graybeard agrees that this is a fair request and complies. The new, itemized bill reads…. Hammer: $5 Knowing where to hit the machine with hammer: $4995

slt2021 6y ago
you know that some developers intentionally add "time bomb" bugs and introduce bugs that trigger after certain period of time - just so that they knock it off with the hammer in one minute an justify their "maintenance support" contract. there was a story about one european company and an Excel spreadsheet with VBA code that would stop working after 3 months and a developer who would "unlock" it for another 3 mo if he has a maintenance contract
- judge2020 6y ago
  The original PaaS!
  - ASalazarMX 6y ago
    Except you have to bring your own platform too! BYOPaaS?
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Well, don't get caught then I guess. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/12/contractor-admits-planting-logic-bombs-in-his-software-to-ensure-hed-get-new-work/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/12/contractor-admit... > On Monday, David A. Tinley, a 62-year-old from Harrison City, Pennsylvania, was sentenced to six months in prison and a fine of $7,500 in the scheme.
  - bumby 6y ago
    I wish the article said how he was caught
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Initially, the offending code was password-protected. However: > While this worked for about two years until May 13, 2016, Tinley's scheme was discovered when he was out of town and he had to give his password to Siemens' employees because of a time-sensitive deadline that required the spreadsheets to work. Oops. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/siemens-contractor-jailed-for-sabotage-with-logic-bombs/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/siemens-contr...
  - abiogenesis 6y ago
    It just needs to look like a bug, not a feature.
- corysama 6y ago
  Back in the days of Visual Source Safe you could roll your system clock forward and check something and it wouldn’t go into effect for everyone else until their clocks caught up. For example, 6 months after you leave the company.
  - klausjensen 6y ago
    I feel like there in an interesting story hiding under this comment! I would like to hear it. :)
- erhk 6y ago
  You sound like the manager in that story looking for a way to mark down the fee
- justatdotin 6y ago
  I experienced something similar early in my career. I was stunned when the old guy who'd been brought in for one day of consulting explained that he'd renamed his parameters with single characters to guarantee future work. but the GM had already given us a stern warning to show him respect. also he got around without the use of his legs. If I'd reacted as I wanted to it would not have gone down well...
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    > he'd renamed his parameters with single characters to guarantee future work. Then they hired an intern with compiler experience and suddenly his help wasn't needed anymore
    - justatdotin 6y ago
      well, kinda. anyway, legless ahole only got one day of high-rate consulting for his trouble.
    - shawn-furyan 6y ago
      I was recently having a conversation where I speculated that with how bad some programmers are at naming things, some code reviews might actually be easier if you ran them through a code obfuscator first, so you can focus on what the code does rather than being tricked into making invalid assumptions by misleading names.
      - gnramires 6y ago
        This gives me a great inspiration for a programming puzzle and learning method: Replace all variable/function names with generics. Your only job is to give names to every variable (trying to figure out what each does). After you're done you can compare to de-obfuscated names to see if they do what you expected (if they're named sensibly).
        lookdangerous 6y ago
        Build the MVP!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pickle-wizard 6y ago
I ran into that in real life. I had a plumbing problem in my house. I had a sink that was randomly filling up with clear cool water. When I used the sink it worked fine. Now I'm pretty handy, but I had no idea what was causing that to happen. So I called a plumber. I showed him the problem, and he immediately knew the cause. The condensation drain line for my AC ran to that sink. He suggested snaking the drain. He was there 10 minutes but that fixed the problem. He charged me $175 which was his minimum. I gladly paid it. I didn't view it as paying $175 for the fix, I viewed it as paying $175 for his expertise.
- booleandilemma 6y ago
  You don’t pay me for what I do, you pay me for what I know.
- TylerE 6y ago
  Plus, realistically in a case like that you're paying for him to... 1. Answer your call 2. Book off part of his schedule 3. Drive to your place <do the actual work> 4. Bill you and collect payment
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Especially if he tells you what the problem is, and how to fix it. Though it seems unlikely you’d ever encounter it again.
redisman 6y ago
Picasso also said something similar. This doodle didn’t take me 5 seconds, it took me my whole life

lend000 6y ago

I agree -- the ability to put a flat rate bounty (similar to what is done with non-monetary bounties on Stack Overflow) would be a better way of fair price discovery. Maybe even allow the devs to place bids on problems and auction the price down from a maximum price bounty.

gowld 6y ago

You'd get paid while listening to explanation and supervising the solution.