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> I think the error here is perceiving errors from medical authorities as having emotional or manipulative motivations. I think you might be forgetting medica

> I think the error here is perceiving errors from medical authorities as having emotional or manipulative motivations. I think you might be forgetting medical authorities approving certain protests as being more important than containing covid. Dont want to start was flamewar here but just pointing out a flaw in your response. That was factually a 'emotional or manipulative motivation', right or wrong. > This is normal. Obviously not.

camgunz 6y ago
> I think you might be forgetting medical authorities approving certain protests as being more important than containing covid. Can you provide some examples? I googled around and found this [1] which seems like a reasonable summary of the Covid-related consequences of the George Floyd protests. The "reasons it seems like it was OK" doesn't seem too divergent from what many medical professionals are saying (don't gather indoors, wear masks, wash hands). I'd also like to point out that institutional racism and police brutality are public health crises with uncountable effects on the health of Black Americans. Further, when you consider that Covid-19 has had far worse effects on communities of color, and that many essential workers are people of color, the protests don't seem that unrelated. Edit, found some: - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/political-and-health-leaders-embrace-of-floyd-protests-fuels-debate-over-coronavirus-restrictions/2020/06/11/9c60bca6-a761-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/political-and-health-l... - https://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-protest-george-floyds-death-safely/story?id=71070269 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-protest-george-floyds-d... - https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-lette... Here are some quotes: > “Protesting against systemic injustice that is contributing directly to this pandemic is essential,” Dhillon said. “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch with my friends.” > "Staying indoors all the time in a pandemic is equivalent to an abstinence-only policy," > For her part, Patel says the core tenants of harm reduction fit into public health doctors’ broader obligation to protect human rights while also helping people stay safe. "You’re describing a broader human rights-based approach to policy and medicine," Patel said. "These are the tenants of human rights." > "There’s broad recognition that racism is one of the top public health issues of our time," Beletsky said. > "Racism is a public health problem," the health department tweeted Monday. "In New York City, Black and Brown communities face the disproportionate impact, grief and loss from the COVID-19 pandemic on top of the trauma of state-sanctioned violence." > “If people were to understand that racism, and all of the social and political and economic inequalities that racism creates, ultimately harms people’s health,” Boyd says, they would see that “protest is a profound public health intervention, because it allows us to finally address and end forms of inequality.” > "We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19," according to the letter writers, many of whom are part of the University of Washington's Division of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "Instead, we wanted to present a narrative that prioritizes opposition to racism as vital to the public health, including the epidemic response. We believe that the way forward is not to suppress protests in the name of public health but to respond to protesters demands in the name of public health, thereby addressing multiple public health crises." [1]: https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300636/coronavirus-pandemic-black-lives-matter-protests https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300636/coronavirus-pandemic-...
- dominotw 6y ago
  examples for what? From your cnn link '"Prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest," the letter says. ' > “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch with my friends.” This is obviously an emotional response. She didn't do A/B testing of various activity outcomes on public health and base her conclusions on that. Can't somone simply say going to church is good for metal health of the population, she didn't obviously measure the outcomes of that activity.
  - camgunz 6y ago
    Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as important as containing COVID-19. From where I sit, I think they pretty well explained why they think the BLM marches in the wake of George Floyd's murder were justified. I certainly wouldn't say they had "emotional or manipulative motivations", a characterization which seems completely off base.
    - dominotw 6y ago
      anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement. Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.
      - camgunz 6y ago
        I don't think we need a scientific study to know that centuries of systemic violence is worse than Zoom church.
marcosdumay 6y ago
Hum... Define "normal". If you mean "perfectly fine", then no, it isn't. But it's normal¹ meaning is "what happens most of the time", and it certainly is. 1 - That's intended.

camgunz 6y ago

> I think you might be forgetting medical authorities approving certain protests as being more important than containing covid. Can you provide some examples? I googled around and found this [1] which seems like a reasonable summary of the Covid-related consequences of the George Floyd protests. The "reasons it seems like it was OK" doesn't seem too divergent from what many medical professionals are saying (don't gather indoors, wear masks, wash hands). I'd also like to point out that institutional racism and police brutality are public health crises with uncountable effects on the health of Black Americans. Further, when you consider that Covid-19 has had far worse effects on communities of color, and that many essential workers are people of color, the protests don't seem that unrelated. Edit, found some: - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/political-and-health-leaders-embrace-of-floyd-protests-fuels-debate-over-coronavirus-restrictions/2020/06/11/9c60bca6-a761-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/political-and-health-l... - https://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-protest-george-floyds-death-safely/story?id=71070269 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-protest-george-floyds-d... - https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-lette... Here are some quotes: > “Protesting against systemic injustice that is contributing directly to this pandemic is essential,” Dhillon said. “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch with my friends.” > "Staying indoors all the time in a pandemic is equivalent to an abstinence-only policy," > For her part, Patel says the core tenants of harm reduction fit into public health doctors’ broader obligation to protect human rights while also helping people stay safe. "You’re describing a broader human rights-based approach to policy and medicine," Patel said. "These are the tenants of human rights." > "There’s broad recognition that racism is one of the top public health issues of our time," Beletsky said. > "Racism is a public health problem," the health department tweeted Monday. "In New York City, Black and Brown communities face the disproportionate impact, grief and loss from the COVID-19 pandemic on top of the trauma of state-sanctioned violence." > “If people were to understand that racism, and all of the social and political and economic inequalities that racism creates, ultimately harms people’s health,” Boyd says, they would see that “protest is a profound public health intervention, because it allows us to finally address and end forms of inequality.” > "We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19," according to the letter writers, many of whom are part of the University of Washington's Division of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "Instead, we wanted to present a narrative that prioritizes opposition to racism as vital to the public health, including the epidemic response. We believe that the way forward is not to suppress protests in the name of public health but to respond to protesters demands in the name of public health, thereby addressing multiple public health crises." [1]: https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300636/coronavirus-pandemic-black-lives-matter-protests https://www.vox.com/2020/6/26/21300636/coronavirus-pandemic-...

dominotw 6y ago
examples for what? From your cnn link '"Prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest," the letter says. ' > “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch with my friends.” This is obviously an emotional response. She didn't do A/B testing of various activity outcomes on public health and base her conclusions on that. Can't somone simply say going to church is good for metal health of the population, she didn't obviously measure the outcomes of that activity.
- camgunz 6y ago
  Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as important as containing COVID-19. From where I sit, I think they pretty well explained why they think the BLM marches in the wake of George Floyd's murder were justified. I certainly wouldn't say they had "emotional or manipulative motivations", a characterization which seems completely off base.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement. Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.
    - camgunz 6y ago
      I don't think we need a scientific study to know that centuries of systemic violence is worse than Zoom church.

marcosdumay 6y ago

Hum... Define "normal". If you mean "perfectly fine", then no, it isn't. But it's normal¹ meaning is "what happens most of the time", and it certainly is. 1 - That's intended.