7 ms·

I moonlight at a machine shop. I'm not a machinist, and I'm hardly a machine operator. Machine shops need bodies to do a few things (some of which OP mentioned

by megraf 6y ago

I moonlight at a machine shop. I'm not a machinist, and I'm hardly a machine operator. Machine shops need bodies to do a few things (some of which OP mentioned) loading materials, removing materials, changing broken cutting bits, cleaning the machines (especially if you're cutting something like magnesium). Machine shops also need bodies to build jigs to hold pieces to the machine table while the machines remove material (think 5 axis pieces, especially). Despite all of this – there's an amazing amount of automation at play. Tool changes, coolant, temperature monitoring, the list goes on. I'm currently building some automation hardware and software so we can start to fill the gap of 'dead' time where machinists are pressing buttons, loading in blanks, and are bored out of their minds. It's such an interesting space.

Quequau 6y ago
Moonlighting at a machine shop is something that I am very interested in doing. How did you wind up with such a position?
- paddy_m 6y ago
  I wrote an email to friends years ago about a side job I got at a machine shop while working in tech, it was quite well received. email in my profile, contact me and I'll send it to you.
- Ccecil 6y ago
  Depends on where you live. I recommend just going around and meeting machinists. Look into local meetings...Society of Manufacturing and such. Typically there are things like shop tours put on monthly (non-pandemic times). Talk to local machine shop instructors and/or metal suppliers and see who might be interested in hiring...they usually know everyone. My area has many very, very large machine shops but it has a larger number of small "mom and pop" shops which just run a few machines. I have found that the people who run either type are equally as approachable...it is hit and miss if they are willing to even let you in the shop at all without NDAs and such...then there are others who have no issues with it. Most of the really difficult to learn stuff in the field is fixturing and CAM setup. Once that is layed out it is mostly just changing parts and watching the machine run...but there is a lot to be learned while that is going on.
  - Quequau 6y ago
    Thanks for the reply. When / if the pandemic ends I have to move and I am seriously considering taking a few machining courses at a community college and changing careers.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
    I've never moonlighted, but I agree about the approachability. Some time ago I lived in an industrial city with lots of small machine shops and especially lots of Screw Machine shops. I found that they really appreciated that I was interested in what they did and were willing to show me around. Fast forward to about a year or two ago and I had to call on a prospective customer with a sales person. I didn't know until I got there that they were a branch of a well known workholding manufacturer and our contact offered to give me a tour of their machine shop. Pure heaven: I've never seen such a collection of modern, massive machine tools. The toolchanger alone on one of these machines was bigger than most VMC's I had ever seen. Their pallets were multiple feet long (not even sure if you call them pallets at that point) and ran on external tracks from machine to machine. Easily the biggest lights-out shop I've ever seen. That was by far the most fun part of the sales call :-)
- megraf 6y ago
  At the start of COVID, I walked in, and told them I was interested. Coincidently, they needed some networking help. We ended up trading some skills, and then I just kept coming in. I didn't take no for an answer, and they liked it. YMMV.
dwohnitmok 6y ago
Many moons ago I also spent a fair amount of time in a machine shop, although never more than in an amateur capacity (I'm not sure I'd call what I did even moonlighting, mainly an enthusiast making small stuff), and I was never using really fancy machines as a result. What struck me was how just how little was automated, how stuff that was nominally automated still had quite a bit of manual labor. I had always had in my mind that with CNC machines you just stick the metal in the vise, load the program, hit start, and you're good to go, but there's manual calibration, facing off and the like that needs to be done before every run. For small, simple pieces I would often forgo the CNC automation and just manually make the piece myself, even when I had already made the piece in SolidWorks (and so could easily generate G code). I've heard that for really fancy machines it's truly a push button process (as long as you feed it precision milled blanks), but I've never had a chance to actually use those.
- megraf 6y ago
  It's all about the tools the shop has. Sapphire probes (edge finders) aid in a lot of the process. Mastercam allows you to simulate the machine process (and you can usually simulate it completely). Every shop is different – the shop I'm at here has a few lathes, robo-drills, 5th axis, and a few older pieces of hardware (which still are able to receive G-Code).
  - dwohnitmok 6y ago
    I was definitely using edge finders (it seems like machining in general would be way way way more work without edge finders) and occasionally Mastercam. Definitely never used a 5-axis mill or robodrill though. I guess my main point of comparison was to laser cutters, which really were basically push button automatable in comparison. Granted the problem is a lot easier (purely 2-D cuts) and the cutter loses a lot of precision for thick material, but any time I got to use a laser cutter I was blown away by easy everything is and kept wondering whether a similar process could ultimately take root for machining.
    - phkahler 6y ago
dogma1138 6y ago
You also need bodies to listen to the tool... ever since I build my small CNC machine I’ve learned just how important it is to listen to the cutting especially when you are doing adaptive passes to make sure your software doesn’t cock up the cuts. This is probably the biggest area where i can see machine learning be actually useful with acoustic sensors. I’m not an experienced machinist by any stretch of the imagination but even with my relatively small experience I can tell how good or bad the finish of a cut is going to be based on the sound the machine makes.
- iancmceachern 6y ago
  Great idea,, it already exists: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC_machine_tool_monitoring_by_AE_sensors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC_machine_tool_monitoring_...
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    I would assume it does especially on 6-7 figure machines but I think even with basic microphones this might be a good application for ML at the small shop and hobbyist levels and I haven’t seen that yet.
  - jononor 6y ago
    Anyone know of reasonably priced acoustic emission sensors? Even on AliExpress I could only find transducers that start around 500 USD. Would love something closer to 50...
    - iancmceachern 6y ago
      I'm not sure these are "reasonably priced" but these have been my favorite product in this are: https://endaq.com/collections/endaq-shock-recorders-vibration-data-logger-sensors https://endaq.com/collections/endaq-shock-recorders-vibratio...
ortusdux 6y ago
A few years back I toured a machine shop staffed primarily by blind individuals. The Javits–Wagner–O'Day Act requires federal agencies purchase some select goods made by the blind when possible. Roughly three hundred employees, 90%+ somewhere between legally blind and fully blind, and 1/3rd or so also deaf. Someone more skilled than I could and should fill a book with the accessibility changes they have made over 50 years of operation. Every single inch of the place had fascinating design details. All machines were laser fenced. Vacuum work holding with audio alignment sensors. All paths had a raised curb. All readouts on CNCs were capable of displaying text one 15" tall letter at a time, or reading G-code aloud or via braille. All offices have one bright wall and one dark wall to provide high contrast for sign language interpreters. One of the sighted employees I met works in the accessibility dept. redesigning systems to be compatible with various disabilities. He had a full lab of 3d printers, CNCS, and enough other equipment to make a makerspace jealous. The company also did some amazing outreach through their charity. The provided dogs, housing, and general mobility training (how to navigate busses, etc.). I should check in and see how they are coping with covid.
- zachrose 6y ago
  What was this company? That sounds amazing.
  - ortusdux 6y ago
    The Lighthouse for the Blind. I donate to their charity annually. Here is a link to a virtual tour of the facility I visited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfCNQatw00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfCNQatw00
    - calvinmorrison 6y ago
      This is absolutely the coolest thing I have seen so far this year. They have more videos where individual works explain how the work from a call center operator to a machinist journeyman!
- oauea 6y ago
hef19898 6y ago
My first CNC experience was with a (C)NC machine from the 70s. I loved it at times. It was really amazing to see the machine shops being upgraded. The elvel of automation, already back in 201/12 (last time I had any close contact with these things) is amazing. The concept of "Hauptzeitparllele Tätigkeit" (stuff operators can do when the machine is doing its thing, one of the things German just describes so well) stuck with me ever since.
polishdude20 6y ago
The other day, I realized our Haas CNC machine actually had a programmable coolant nozzle. You can program the nozzle to spray coolant at various locations!
- myself248 6y ago
  Yup, it's fun to make a "wash the part off" program that drives the table back and forth a few times with the nozzle at progressive angles. Or aim right at the perimeter of a big face mill.
blackrock 6y ago
Maybe someone can build a robot to service and clean the machines?

by megraf 6y ago

Quequau 6y ago

Moonlighting at a machine shop is something that I am very interested in doing. How did you wind up with such a position?

paddy_m 6y ago
I wrote an email to friends years ago about a side job I got at a machine shop while working in tech, it was quite well received. email in my profile, contact me and I'll send it to you.
Ccecil 6y ago
Depends on where you live. I recommend just going around and meeting machinists. Look into local meetings...Society of Manufacturing and such. Typically there are things like shop tours put on monthly (non-pandemic times). Talk to local machine shop instructors and/or metal suppliers and see who might be interested in hiring...they usually know everyone. My area has many very, very large machine shops but it has a larger number of small "mom and pop" shops which just run a few machines. I have found that the people who run either type are equally as approachable...it is hit and miss if they are willing to even let you in the shop at all without NDAs and such...then there are others who have no issues with it. Most of the really difficult to learn stuff in the field is fixturing and CAM setup. Once that is layed out it is mostly just changing parts and watching the machine run...but there is a lot to be learned while that is going on.
- Quequau 6y ago
  Thanks for the reply. When / if the pandemic ends I have to move and I am seriously considering taking a few machining courses at a community college and changing careers.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
  I've never moonlighted, but I agree about the approachability. Some time ago I lived in an industrial city with lots of small machine shops and especially lots of Screw Machine shops. I found that they really appreciated that I was interested in what they did and were willing to show me around. Fast forward to about a year or two ago and I had to call on a prospective customer with a sales person. I didn't know until I got there that they were a branch of a well known workholding manufacturer and our contact offered to give me a tour of their machine shop. Pure heaven: I've never seen such a collection of modern, massive machine tools. The toolchanger alone on one of these machines was bigger than most VMC's I had ever seen. Their pallets were multiple feet long (not even sure if you call them pallets at that point) and ran on external tracks from machine to machine. Easily the biggest lights-out shop I've ever seen. That was by far the most fun part of the sales call :-)
megraf 6y ago
At the start of COVID, I walked in, and told them I was interested. Coincidently, they needed some networking help. We ended up trading some skills, and then I just kept coming in. I didn't take no for an answer, and they liked it. YMMV.

dwohnitmok 6y ago

Many moons ago I also spent a fair amount of time in a machine shop, although never more than in an amateur capacity (I'm not sure I'd call what I did even moonlighting, mainly an enthusiast making small stuff), and I was never using really fancy machines as a result. What struck me was how just how little was automated, how stuff that was nominally automated still had quite a bit of manual labor. I had always had in my mind that with CNC machines you just stick the metal in the vise, load the program, hit start, and you're good to go, but there's manual calibration, facing off and the like that needs to be done before every run. For small, simple pieces I would often forgo the CNC automation and just manually make the piece myself, even when I had already made the piece in SolidWorks (and so could easily generate G code). I've heard that for really fancy machines it's truly a push button process (as long as you feed it precision milled blanks), but I've never had a chance to actually use those.

megraf 6y ago
It's all about the tools the shop has. Sapphire probes (edge finders) aid in a lot of the process. Mastercam allows you to simulate the machine process (and you can usually simulate it completely). Every shop is different – the shop I'm at here has a few lathes, robo-drills, 5th axis, and a few older pieces of hardware (which still are able to receive G-Code).
- dwohnitmok 6y ago
  I was definitely using edge finders (it seems like machining in general would be way way way more work without edge finders) and occasionally Mastercam. Definitely never used a 5-axis mill or robodrill though. I guess my main point of comparison was to laser cutters, which really were basically push button automatable in comparison. Granted the problem is a lot easier (purely 2-D cuts) and the cutter loses a lot of precision for thick material, but any time I got to use a laser cutter I was blown away by easy everything is and kept wondering whether a similar process could ultimately take root for machining.
  - phkahler 6y ago

dogma1138 6y ago

You also need bodies to listen to the tool... ever since I build my small CNC machine I’ve learned just how important it is to listen to the cutting especially when you are doing adaptive passes to make sure your software doesn’t cock up the cuts. This is probably the biggest area where i can see machine learning be actually useful with acoustic sensors. I’m not an experienced machinist by any stretch of the imagination but even with my relatively small experience I can tell how good or bad the finish of a cut is going to be based on the sound the machine makes.

iancmceachern 6y ago
Great idea,, it already exists: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC_machine_tool_monitoring_by_AE_sensors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC_machine_tool_monitoring_...
- dogma1138 6y ago
  I would assume it does especially on 6-7 figure machines but I think even with basic microphones this might be a good application for ML at the small shop and hobbyist levels and I haven’t seen that yet.
- jononor 6y ago
  Anyone know of reasonably priced acoustic emission sensors? Even on AliExpress I could only find transducers that start around 500 USD. Would love something closer to 50...
  - iancmceachern 6y ago
    I'm not sure these are "reasonably priced" but these have been my favorite product in this are: https://endaq.com/collections/endaq-shock-recorders-vibration-data-logger-sensors https://endaq.com/collections/endaq-shock-recorders-vibratio...

ortusdux 6y ago

A few years back I toured a machine shop staffed primarily by blind individuals. The Javits–Wagner–O'Day Act requires federal agencies purchase some select goods made by the blind when possible. Roughly three hundred employees, 90%+ somewhere between legally blind and fully blind, and 1/3rd or so also deaf. Someone more skilled than I could and should fill a book with the accessibility changes they have made over 50 years of operation. Every single inch of the place had fascinating design details. All machines were laser fenced. Vacuum work holding with audio alignment sensors. All paths had a raised curb. All readouts on CNCs were capable of displaying text one 15" tall letter at a time, or reading G-code aloud or via braille. All offices have one bright wall and one dark wall to provide high contrast for sign language interpreters. One of the sighted employees I met works in the accessibility dept. redesigning systems to be compatible with various disabilities. He had a full lab of 3d printers, CNCS, and enough other equipment to make a makerspace jealous. The company also did some amazing outreach through their charity. The provided dogs, housing, and general mobility training (how to navigate busses, etc.). I should check in and see how they are coping with covid.

zachrose 6y ago
What was this company? That sounds amazing.
- ortusdux 6y ago
  The Lighthouse for the Blind. I donate to their charity annually. Here is a link to a virtual tour of the facility I visited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfCNQatw00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfCNQatw00
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    This is absolutely the coolest thing I have seen so far this year. They have more videos where individual works explain how the work from a call center operator to a machinist journeyman!
oauea 6y ago

hef19898 6y ago

My first CNC experience was with a (C)NC machine from the 70s. I loved it at times. It was really amazing to see the machine shops being upgraded. The elvel of automation, already back in 201/12 (last time I had any close contact with these things) is amazing. The concept of "Hauptzeitparllele Tätigkeit" (stuff operators can do when the machine is doing its thing, one of the things German just describes so well) stuck with me ever since.

polishdude20 6y ago

The other day, I realized our Haas CNC machine actually had a programmable coolant nozzle. You can program the nozzle to spray coolant at various locations!

myself248 6y ago
Yup, it's fun to make a "wash the part off" program that drives the table back and forth a few times with the nozzle at progressive angles. Or aim right at the perimeter of a big face mill.

blackrock 6y ago

Maybe someone can build a robot to service and clean the machines?