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It's astounding in so far as how unique this conversation is to tech. I've worked as a pipefitter, electrician's apprentice, and general construction hand in th

It's astounding in so far as how unique this conversation is to tech. I've worked as a pipefitter, electrician's apprentice, and general construction hand in the past - I could only imagine how it would go telling my former foreman that I'd like to head off to yoga in the morning for an hour. Big jobs that require overtime to complete get folks to work that overtime - even within a union. If it's not you, it's someone else, and they'll be remembered for stepping up. Bringing experience in other fields, namely the trades, to the conversation here might make it more clear why these things outlined in the article are seen as extreme entitlement. It's not a lack of work-life balance - something I see and hear about in most industries now - it's about caring deeply about your career, your work, and perhaps the project at hand, while not allowing that work to define your life. Pride and dedication to work can be balanced with family. It's not a zero sum game. What the author is trying to explain, in my mind, is that there is large priority on only one side of the equation (life), while indifference towards the other (work). We have it AMAZINGLY WELL being in tech, and we have luxuries that are unique to tech and bewildering to folks in other fields.

yardie 6y ago
I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher priority over a senior.) Also, shops had extremely good work life balance. You were at the timeclock 4:59 on the dot. No one is asking you to stay late, or be on call uncompensated. Your time was your time from 5pm-8am. By their virtue of being always online, tech companies intrude into that worklife balance and it's not unreasonable to ask for some of it back.
- andrew_ 6y ago
  I disagree only in that I worked salaried positions in the trades for some time. While most trades are hourly, there does exist a salaried contingent. The thinking that extra asks from your employer is an intrusion into your life is inherently, entitlement. Solid companies and management will repay that extra effort, in one form or another.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Well by your definition then I’ve come to makepeace with my entitlement, then, if this is truly entitlement to not want a work life that thinks it can intrude on my non-work life without me saying something about it and trying to minimize the blast radius. Yes, I’m entitled. I’m entitled to being defined by more than just how I make money. Yep. 100% Glad we could have this talk. Feels good to finally get that out.
    - shrimp_emoji 6y ago
      "Human rights, democracies, and whatever... It's all ~~nonsense~~ entitlement..." (https://pics.me.me/thumb_translated-by-memritv-org-human-rights-democracies-and-whateve-its-all-61059689.png https://pics.me.me/thumb_translated-by-memritv-org-human-rig...)
  - yardie 6y ago
    > The thinking that extra asks from your employer is an intrusion into your life is inherently, entitlement. Let's get this straight an entitlement is something that is owed. If I buy health insurance and go to the hospital I am entitled to use it. If I pay for unemployment in my salary and become unemployed I am entitled to it. > in one form or another. Banking and housing unfortunately does not work this way. I can only present a paystub or W4 when applying for a loan or renting a flat, any other form of compensation is disregarded. My dedication to the job should be remitted through my salary, a employee pizza/ice cream party doesn't mean a thing to me.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Every tech company I’ve worked at expected me to bring my laptop home every night “just in case we need you to jump in” FANG companies also typically pay your cellphone bill, again because they expect to be able to page and call you at any time.
  - yardie 6y ago
    I do the same but I don't jump in right away. We have runbooks and escalation routines. If it gets to the point that I need to "jump in" I take that time back in the upcoming days and weeks. As a personal favour I will fire off a private message to whichever colleague is on call if I see they are floundering. Because I'm a good guy and believe the help I give today may be requited down the line.
- asidiali 6y ago
  This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...
  - kryogen1c 6y ago
    > the mental overheard of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours this is very ignorant. the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.
    - jolux 6y ago
      > software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers. There's definitely a difference between white collar/knowledge work and manual labor or highly people-focused work, though. I've worked retail and food service before and the mental overhead is absolutely different. It took me a long time (years) to learn how to turn off my brain at 5pm and stop programming when I got my first tech job. Not something I had a problem with in more manual industries: when you're not at the workplace, you can't work, even if you wanted to.
      - asidiali 6y ago
        Agreed! Is it black and white? No of course not. You can and need to learn how to properly transition between work and home. It takes time. Totally agree with you. It’s nearly impossible to do when your employer is not on that same page with you, or even worse is instead fighting against it.
    - asidiali 6y ago
      > the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. This is very ignorant. There are many outside factors that go into if an employee needs to focus on work after hours, such as accessibility to the working environment, cultural practices at the company, etc. Who said anything about haunting? If my manager hits me up at 11pm asking for something, sure I can ignore him or her. Then I come in the next day, they already did the thing they asked for themselves because [insert business reason], and says “never mind”. Next time it happens, they go to the other dev who is happy to do it at 11pm. Guess who gets the promotion?
- mywacaday 6y ago
  It needs to be give and take on both sides, I went back to finish a presentation deck last night until 1am but I'll finish early in Friday or take time when it suits me and I don't have to tell my manager. One of the my direct reports took some time this morning to go do some person errands, didn't use vacation as he steps up when needed. He sent me a courtesy message to say he would be out for a few hours but it wasn't for approval. He gives when he needs to and he takes when he needs to and I trust him to manage that. But trust is needed and I've seen plenty of managers abuse people's goodwill, I can see why unions formalize that in a way.
travisgriggs 6y ago
This. The article author describes a number of symptoms. Viewed through my lens of abstraction, he's arguing about passion for the job/product/team. People who are passionate about what they do are often frustrated when surrounded by those less passionate. I notice in some of the comments either in support of or against this guy, there's a subtle distinction. Those against say things like "I'd never work for this guy." And those more supportive, say things like "I'd like to work with this guy." I see in tech often that there are those who want to view it as an idyllic "team play" game. We're all on the court together trying to score goals. And there's another segment that see it in the more traditional factory worker. Clearly defined roles, chains of report, advancement up the pyramid.
enraged_camel 6y ago
>> We have it AMAZINGLY WELL being in tech, and we have luxuries that are unique to tech and bewildering to folks in other fields. Yep, even other highly paid fields! Can you imagine a surgeon scheduling their surgeries around yoga classes?
- amerkhalid 6y ago
  Yes they do. I have a few doctor friends, like for any customer facing job they cannot just show up an hour late. But they have a lot of control on their schedule and they do schedule it around their yoga classes, prayer schedule, kids stuff etc.
- asidiali 6y ago
  I have news for you buddy... That’s exactly what they do.
  - enraged_camel 6y ago
    Nah. My parents are doctors and I know quite a few surgeons. They might schedule their work around kids and family and whatnot, but none of them will opt to go to yoga or whatever when there is a pending surgery. I know of only one guy who is a plastic surgeon and he is like that, but he’s also one of the best in his field and a bit of a prima donna...
    - asidiali 6y ago
      Ok, I hear you. However, I cofounded a medical startup with 3 surgeons, seeing their day to day routine pretty closely, at their offices, at home, etc... And they definitely worked around their own schedule. They either owned their own practice, or worked at a larger one, and controlled their own scheduling via their team. Surgeries are scheduled weeks or months in advanced. Only when an emergency came in they needed to shuffle things around - basically the same thing with engineers and planned deployments vs random outages. > none of them will go to yoga with a pending surgery Ok, yeah, of course they are not going to just up and leave when there is an appointment or deadline. That has nothing to do with whether or not they chose the time of that appointment in the first place. > They might schedule their work around kids and family and whatnot s/kids/exercise/g
david38 6y ago
Overtime is remembered a lot less than you think. I have family in the trades and they much prefer their union jobs to my programming one. Yes, I get paid more, but I also work more, in an area where I can’t afford a house.
- eropple 6y ago
  You aren't constrained to live in those areas to make a living, though. I'm a senior/principal level developer living just outside of Boston (I can walk to a subway in 30 minutes or just hop on a commuter rail stop in about five) and I can very comfortably afford a 4-bed house on a single salary. And the Boston area is not cheap.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Like many cities that have expensive areas (and Boston/Cambridge certainly do), it's often fairly easy to get to suburbs--some of which have downtown areas--that aren't Midwest cheap but are fairly affordable. I live quite a bit further out but I'm still able to drive in for an evening or take commuter rail in for a day. I think the fact that it's hard to get out of the expensive areas in the Bay Area in a reasonable amount of time gives a lot of people a false impression of the situation with other expensive cities.
thefrog 6y ago
> We have it AMAZINGLY WELL being in tech, and we have luxuries that are unique to tech and bewildering to folks in other fields. This all fucking day. The worst part of this industry is the entitlement and straight up lack of gratitude for your position. It's taken for granted.
duxup 6y ago
Even within the world of tech the contrasts are striking. I worked for a tech company based in the Midwest that was acquired by a company in the valley. I regularly went on visits to HQ. Some of the folks I met complained strongly about things like lunch not being provided... as often. And their lunches were amazing, with drinks, and socialization. I came from a place that maybe once a quarter someone would order a bunch of cheap-o pizza... maybe, unless they were concerned about the budget (like $300 worth of pizza matters). And what that meant was you went and grabbed a piece of pizza and went back to your desk... That's not to say one is right or one was wrong (both locations could have certainly used a little of each's culture / traditions), but the privileges of the tech world (particularly some companies) are generally pretty amazing, and I'm not sure folks who have never left those places really get it... I sometimes feel like I'm talking a to aliens from another tech world when it comes to their complaints, like they're from that space ship in WALL-E.
- gmadsen 6y ago
  I think its a little disingenuous to say that these people are privileged. Make no mistake, there was plenty of cost/benefit analysis done with things like in house lunch. It attracts people to the company, less people leave for lunch and stay around their coworkers and possibly talk about work more, takes less time so they work longer per day. google is definitely getting a net gain in profits from providing lunch, they are not doing this out of the kindness of their heart.
asidiali 6y ago
You can’t commit a fitted pipe to the company repo at 2am on a weekend. You also can’t be pressured to. Well you can - but we would instantly recognize that one for what it is - ludicrous!
dingo454 6y ago
I'm in IT, but I've worked as electrician and carpenter for some years. IMHO this is not easily comparable as you'd think. You can easily estimate the time required to perform some physical tasks. It's a bit different if you're working on something you never did before, but again as an electrician or carpenter this rarely happens after the training period. Working more hours generally does result in more work done, although the physical factor makes this work-life balance waaay more obvious to whoever is working. In IT I'm constantly working on things which are slightly different than before. Time estimation is big common issue in the field. I'll be fully honest and say that working 4 or 8 hours a day makes absolutely no difference in work being done for me, except in very rare cases. Dedication has nothing to do with it (I love what I do). Technically I'm not stopping to work at the 6pm hour mark, my brain keeps thinking about technical issues also during off hours and the weekend. I don't know about you but I felt physically tired, but satisfied at the end of the day when working as a carpenter. Sense of accomplishment was much more rewarding. When coming home I would enjoy something different. The next day I was recharged. When working on problem-solving, I don't feel physically tired, but I can still feel exhausted in a way that prevents me doing other things. It's much, much harder to find a good balance. And I'd stress this again: putting more working hours sitting in front screen is not necessarily achieving anything. Note also that these crazy perks as outlined in the article are not my experience in IT working in several places in EU. Yes, our working hours are more flexible due to the nature of the job, but I've yet to see such entitlement in my career. Maybe I've been unlucky.
- amykyta 6y ago
  The energy drain of software development is something I struggle with. I’ve worked as a painter and can relate to wrapping things up for the day and coming home physically exhausted but with energy remaining. Especially with Covid ‘work from anywhere all the time’ it’s very difficult to find a balance as a software slinger.
saalweachter 6y ago
I've actually had the opposite experience working as summer labor for facilities maintenance. It was extremely 9-to-5; well, technically, 7-to-3:30. Most people worked most of the time, because it was hourly, but if you needed to arrange to not, it wasn't a big deal, because you were hourly, and moreover, not customer-focused. If (nearly) everyone took the same day off, you just needed a skeleton crew for emergencies and the maintenance just got done a day later. I don't think the distinction is really "tech versus non-tech" or even "white-color versus blue". I think the real distinction is jobs that have deadlines for one-off projects versus jobs that ... don't, where you just do the same tasks over and over because they keep needing to be done. Building maintenance is a lot like building construction, it uses the same skills to do the same things, but one uses a small number of people to do the work over fifty years that the other does with a large number in one. The two types of work require different mindsets and different lifestyles. When you have a deadline, one big thing to accomplish before you rest, it makes sense to work long hours and monomaniacally to meet those deadlines. When you are in it for the long haul, you need to pace yourself.
teraku 6y ago
That is so true. I work in IT of a non-Tech company and it's sometimes crazy to think that just because our industry is so short-handed on IT people we get paid so much more compared to the guys in the company "doing the work". I think it's probably fine because we also play a vital role in the company's success and it's good taking pride in your work, but some of my colleagues act like they are the reason we are making any profit. They are running the tool that enables our sales, but they are not the ones doing the actual selling. Just because the company has been around longer than there has been commodity sales order software and they are still running it does not mean they are the cause for all the revenue in their tool. We have it amazingly well and we should make sure to be nice to other people, especially since we are privileged.

yardie 6y ago

I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher priority over a senior.) Also, shops had extremely good work life balance. You were at the timeclock 4:59 on the dot. No one is asking you to stay late, or be on call uncompensated. Your time was your time from 5pm-8am. By their virtue of being always online, tech companies intrude into that worklife balance and it's not unreasonable to ask for some of it back.

andrew_ 6y ago
I disagree only in that I worked salaried positions in the trades for some time. While most trades are hourly, there does exist a salaried contingent. The thinking that extra asks from your employer is an intrusion into your life is inherently, entitlement. Solid companies and management will repay that extra effort, in one form or another.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  Well by your definition then I’ve come to makepeace with my entitlement, then, if this is truly entitlement to not want a work life that thinks it can intrude on my non-work life without me saying something about it and trying to minimize the blast radius. Yes, I’m entitled. I’m entitled to being defined by more than just how I make money. Yep. 100% Glad we could have this talk. Feels good to finally get that out.
  - shrimp_emoji 6y ago
    "Human rights, democracies, and whatever... It's all ~~nonsense~~ entitlement..." (https://pics.me.me/thumb_translated-by-memritv-org-human-rights-democracies-and-whateve-its-all-61059689.png https://pics.me.me/thumb_translated-by-memritv-org-human-rig...)
- yardie 6y ago
  > The thinking that extra asks from your employer is an intrusion into your life is inherently, entitlement. Let's get this straight an entitlement is something that is owed. If I buy health insurance and go to the hospital I am entitled to use it. If I pay for unemployment in my salary and become unemployed I am entitled to it. > in one form or another. Banking and housing unfortunately does not work this way. I can only present a paystub or W4 when applying for a loan or renting a flat, any other form of compensation is disregarded. My dedication to the job should be remitted through my salary, a employee pizza/ice cream party doesn't mean a thing to me.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Every tech company I’ve worked at expected me to bring my laptop home every night “just in case we need you to jump in” FANG companies also typically pay your cellphone bill, again because they expect to be able to page and call you at any time.
- yardie 6y ago
  I do the same but I don't jump in right away. We have runbooks and escalation routines. If it gets to the point that I need to "jump in" I take that time back in the upcoming days and weeks. As a personal favour I will fire off a private message to whichever colleague is on call if I see they are floundering. Because I'm a good guy and believe the help I give today may be requited down the line.
asidiali 6y ago
This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...
- kryogen1c 6y ago
  > the mental overheard of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours this is very ignorant. the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.
  - jolux 6y ago
    > software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers. There's definitely a difference between white collar/knowledge work and manual labor or highly people-focused work, though. I've worked retail and food service before and the mental overhead is absolutely different. It took me a long time (years) to learn how to turn off my brain at 5pm and stop programming when I got my first tech job. Not something I had a problem with in more manual industries: when you're not at the workplace, you can't work, even if you wanted to.
    - asidiali 6y ago
      Agreed! Is it black and white? No of course not. You can and need to learn how to properly transition between work and home. It takes time. Totally agree with you. It’s nearly impossible to do when your employer is not on that same page with you, or even worse is instead fighting against it.
  - asidiali 6y ago
    > the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. This is very ignorant. There are many outside factors that go into if an employee needs to focus on work after hours, such as accessibility to the working environment, cultural practices at the company, etc. Who said anything about haunting? If my manager hits me up at 11pm asking for something, sure I can ignore him or her. Then I come in the next day, they already did the thing they asked for themselves because [insert business reason], and says “never mind”. Next time it happens, they go to the other dev who is happy to do it at 11pm. Guess who gets the promotion?
mywacaday 6y ago
It needs to be give and take on both sides, I went back to finish a presentation deck last night until 1am but I'll finish early in Friday or take time when it suits me and I don't have to tell my manager. One of the my direct reports took some time this morning to go do some person errands, didn't use vacation as he steps up when needed. He sent me a courtesy message to say he would be out for a few hours but it wasn't for approval. He gives when he needs to and he takes when he needs to and I trust him to manage that. But trust is needed and I've seen plenty of managers abuse people's goodwill, I can see why unions formalize that in a way.

travisgriggs 6y ago

This. The article author describes a number of symptoms. Viewed through my lens of abstraction, he's arguing about passion for the job/product/team. People who are passionate about what they do are often frustrated when surrounded by those less passionate. I notice in some of the comments either in support of or against this guy, there's a subtle distinction. Those against say things like "I'd never work for this guy." And those more supportive, say things like "I'd like to work with this guy." I see in tech often that there are those who want to view it as an idyllic "team play" game. We're all on the court together trying to score goals. And there's another segment that see it in the more traditional factory worker. Clearly defined roles, chains of report, advancement up the pyramid.

enraged_camel 6y ago

>> We have it AMAZINGLY WELL being in tech, and we have luxuries that are unique to tech and bewildering to folks in other fields. Yep, even other highly paid fields! Can you imagine a surgeon scheduling their surgeries around yoga classes?

amerkhalid 6y ago
Yes they do. I have a few doctor friends, like for any customer facing job they cannot just show up an hour late. But they have a lot of control on their schedule and they do schedule it around their yoga classes, prayer schedule, kids stuff etc.
asidiali 6y ago
I have news for you buddy... That’s exactly what they do.
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  Nah. My parents are doctors and I know quite a few surgeons. They might schedule their work around kids and family and whatnot, but none of them will opt to go to yoga or whatever when there is a pending surgery. I know of only one guy who is a plastic surgeon and he is like that, but he’s also one of the best in his field and a bit of a prima donna...
  - asidiali 6y ago
    Ok, I hear you. However, I cofounded a medical startup with 3 surgeons, seeing their day to day routine pretty closely, at their offices, at home, etc... And they definitely worked around their own schedule. They either owned their own practice, or worked at a larger one, and controlled their own scheduling via their team. Surgeries are scheduled weeks or months in advanced. Only when an emergency came in they needed to shuffle things around - basically the same thing with engineers and planned deployments vs random outages. > none of them will go to yoga with a pending surgery Ok, yeah, of course they are not going to just up and leave when there is an appointment or deadline. That has nothing to do with whether or not they chose the time of that appointment in the first place. > They might schedule their work around kids and family and whatnot s/kids/exercise/g

david38 6y ago

Overtime is remembered a lot less than you think. I have family in the trades and they much prefer their union jobs to my programming one. Yes, I get paid more, but I also work more, in an area where I can’t afford a house.

eropple 6y ago
You aren't constrained to live in those areas to make a living, though. I'm a senior/principal level developer living just outside of Boston (I can walk to a subway in 30 minutes or just hop on a commuter rail stop in about five) and I can very comfortably afford a 4-bed house on a single salary. And the Boston area is not cheap.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Like many cities that have expensive areas (and Boston/Cambridge certainly do), it's often fairly easy to get to suburbs--some of which have downtown areas--that aren't Midwest cheap but are fairly affordable. I live quite a bit further out but I'm still able to drive in for an evening or take commuter rail in for a day. I think the fact that it's hard to get out of the expensive areas in the Bay Area in a reasonable amount of time gives a lot of people a false impression of the situation with other expensive cities.

thefrog 6y ago

> We have it AMAZINGLY WELL being in tech, and we have luxuries that are unique to tech and bewildering to folks in other fields. This all fucking day. The worst part of this industry is the entitlement and straight up lack of gratitude for your position. It's taken for granted.

duxup 6y ago

Even within the world of tech the contrasts are striking. I worked for a tech company based in the Midwest that was acquired by a company in the valley. I regularly went on visits to HQ. Some of the folks I met complained strongly about things like lunch not being provided... as often. And their lunches were amazing, with drinks, and socialization. I came from a place that maybe once a quarter someone would order a bunch of cheap-o pizza... maybe, unless they were concerned about the budget (like $300 worth of pizza matters). And what that meant was you went and grabbed a piece of pizza and went back to your desk... That's not to say one is right or one was wrong (both locations could have certainly used a little of each's culture / traditions), but the privileges of the tech world (particularly some companies) are generally pretty amazing, and I'm not sure folks who have never left those places really get it... I sometimes feel like I'm talking a to aliens from another tech world when it comes to their complaints, like they're from that space ship in WALL-E.

gmadsen 6y ago
I think its a little disingenuous to say that these people are privileged. Make no mistake, there was plenty of cost/benefit analysis done with things like in house lunch. It attracts people to the company, less people leave for lunch and stay around their coworkers and possibly talk about work more, takes less time so they work longer per day. google is definitely getting a net gain in profits from providing lunch, they are not doing this out of the kindness of their heart.

asidiali 6y ago

You can’t commit a fitted pipe to the company repo at 2am on a weekend. You also can’t be pressured to. Well you can - but we would instantly recognize that one for what it is - ludicrous!

dingo454 6y ago

I'm in IT, but I've worked as electrician and carpenter for some years. IMHO this is not easily comparable as you'd think. You can easily estimate the time required to perform some physical tasks. It's a bit different if you're working on something you never did before, but again as an electrician or carpenter this rarely happens after the training period. Working more hours generally does result in more work done, although the physical factor makes this work-life balance waaay more obvious to whoever is working. In IT I'm constantly working on things which are slightly different than before. Time estimation is big common issue in the field. I'll be fully honest and say that working 4 or 8 hours a day makes absolutely no difference in work being done for me, except in very rare cases. Dedication has nothing to do with it (I love what I do). Technically I'm not stopping to work at the 6pm hour mark, my brain keeps thinking about technical issues also during off hours and the weekend. I don't know about you but I felt physically tired, but satisfied at the end of the day when working as a carpenter. Sense of accomplishment was much more rewarding. When coming home I would enjoy something different. The next day I was recharged. When working on problem-solving, I don't feel physically tired, but I can still feel exhausted in a way that prevents me doing other things. It's much, much harder to find a good balance. And I'd stress this again: putting more working hours sitting in front screen is not necessarily achieving anything. Note also that these crazy perks as outlined in the article are not my experience in IT working in several places in EU. Yes, our working hours are more flexible due to the nature of the job, but I've yet to see such entitlement in my career. Maybe I've been unlucky.

amykyta 6y ago
The energy drain of software development is something I struggle with. I’ve worked as a painter and can relate to wrapping things up for the day and coming home physically exhausted but with energy remaining. Especially with Covid ‘work from anywhere all the time’ it’s very difficult to find a balance as a software slinger.

saalweachter 6y ago

I've actually had the opposite experience working as summer labor for facilities maintenance. It was extremely 9-to-5; well, technically, 7-to-3:30. Most people worked most of the time, because it was hourly, but if you needed to arrange to not, it wasn't a big deal, because you were hourly, and moreover, not customer-focused. If (nearly) everyone took the same day off, you just needed a skeleton crew for emergencies and the maintenance just got done a day later. I don't think the distinction is really "tech versus non-tech" or even "white-color versus blue". I think the real distinction is jobs that have deadlines for one-off projects versus jobs that ... don't, where you just do the same tasks over and over because they keep needing to be done. Building maintenance is a lot like building construction, it uses the same skills to do the same things, but one uses a small number of people to do the work over fifty years that the other does with a large number in one. The two types of work require different mindsets and different lifestyles. When you have a deadline, one big thing to accomplish before you rest, it makes sense to work long hours and monomaniacally to meet those deadlines. When you are in it for the long haul, you need to pace yourself.

teraku 6y ago

That is so true. I work in IT of a non-Tech company and it's sometimes crazy to think that just because our industry is so short-handed on IT people we get paid so much more compared to the guys in the company "doing the work". I think it's probably fine because we also play a vital role in the company's success and it's good taking pride in your work, but some of my colleagues act like they are the reason we are making any profit. They are running the tool that enables our sales, but they are not the ones doing the actual selling. Just because the company has been around longer than there has been commodity sales order software and they are still running it does not mean they are the cause for all the revenue in their tool. We have it amazingly well and we should make sure to be nice to other people, especially since we are privileged.