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Autopilot on Cars for $999
- dang 6y agoRecent and related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26146361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26146361 (not many comments but the Twitter link has info). A thread from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21986315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21986315
- chairmanwow1 6y agoI bought my car with the express intent of getting a compatible car for Comma. My comma absolutely increased the utility of my car to me. Been on 3 huge road trips that I wouldn’t have considered without the device. 12 hours on the road isn’t something I would do everyday, but absolutely bearable with a comma.
- exhilaration 6y agoSince you've done the research, what car works best with it? What are you driving?
- cyrux004 6y agoToyota Corolla 2020 (got steering sensor with decent torque and the ability to do stop and go)
- plif 6y agoWhich car and what did you drive before? And can you quantify how much benefit you see over adaptive cruise / lane assist / etc that is standard on many cars these days? I agree with your sentiment, just unsure what your point of reference is and how much impact the fancy AI actually has. My car (2017 model) has the features I mentioned from the factory and is great on long trips too.
- chairmanwow1 6y agoI didn’t own a car before ;) I rode a bicycle and took the train. Although I would rent cars when driving up to Tahoe or Yosemite. I would say that the lane-keep systems are pretty conservative. I tend to think of it that those systems help you steer while comma will do it for you. There’s a huge difference between hands and feet off the steering wheel/pedals and needing to guide it every step of the way. In particular, I think I tried a VW and a Ford’s lane assist. They would lessen the torque for turning the wheel, but wouldn’t actually make a turn by itself, which has marginal value, but significantly less.
- cyrux004 6y agoThis is a good video somebody did to compare the Toyota's stock system (latest one known as tss 2.0) with Comma Openpilot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-inxH92wM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-inxH92wM
- gnicholas 6y agoYeah the Toyota 2.0 system is pretty lousy. I rented a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid for a road trip from the Bay Area to San Diego. Lane keep assist didn’t work well, even in broad daylight. One of the blind spot monitors was broken (missed a semi that passed us), which was a shocking failure. The adaptive cruise control was good though.
- betaclass 6y agoI'm still unclear as to the benefit given that you're required to attend to the road and it detects distracted people in the driver's seat?
- cyrux004 6y agodo you find benefit in dynamic cruise control in slow moving traffic. Now add the lane centering logic and you dont have to apply a lot of torque on the wheel either, because the system does adjustments for you.
- betaclass 6y agoSo the benefit is strictly in slow-moving traffic? And it's never occurred to me that steering wheel torque is an issue. And so many of these processes -- lane centering, not bumping into the car ahead of me -- are subconscious for me at this point, but I've been driving for decades. May I ask how good is the technology that notices when someone is distracted and forces them to attend to the road?
- mmglr 6y agoIf anything it sounds to me as if the comma provided a false sense of security. Drawing from experience driving 9 hours is already grueling. At hour 10, 11 or 12 would you have been able to take control during a failure of the system?
- newsclues 6y agoI drove 10-12h per day across Canada without cruise control let alone any drivers aid. If you have no option, you just get it done.
- sjburt 6y agoI have one. It's fairly limited so you are forced to pay attention all of the time and think about whether you need to take over. You just aren't doing the menial tasks of keeping the car centered in the lane or keeping a safe following distance. If the system does something you don't like you just grab the wheel or touch the gas/brakes (the control messages it sends are lower priority for the car than driver inputs). It's also designed to disable itself if it sees gas or brake input. It's really best considered as an upgrade to the stock lane keeping assist and dynamic cruise control found on most cars. Compared to the stock systems it's much better behaved (my stock Toyota system will happily drive straight across multiple lane lines in certain lighting conditions and it astounds me that such a thing could be sold), but it is a long long way from Level 4.
- mike_d 6y ago> you are forced to pay attention all of the time and think about whether you need to take over The same people who cram an orange in to their Tesla's steering wheel will just download a sketchy repack of the open source software that disables the attention checks.
- beaconstudios 6y agoif you override the safety precautions, aren't you inherently taking your safety and the safety of your passengers into your own hands? I don't think you can hold that against any manufacturer.
- tdeck 6y agoAnyone know if this has killed someone yet?
- yannoninator 6y agoI know for sure Tesla and Uber has. Seems like Comma's product requires your attention through driver monitoring whereas Tesla's product is non existent in this area. And with Uber the driver was distracted. edit: Downvoters, i'm a bit confused here, so Tesla and Uber hasn't killed anybody then?
- slg 6y agoTesla has something like 4 billion miles driven with Autopilot. This apparently has 35 million miles. (It isn't a direct comparison, but the overall rate in the US is around 1 death per 100 million miles driven). Anyone who uses these numbers to even imply this is safer than Tesla knows nothing about statistics. It is way too early to draw any conclusions about Comma's safety. It is also probably too early to even draw statistical conclusions about Tesla's safety.
- yannoninator 6y ago> It is way too early to draw any conclusions about Comma's safety. I definitely would not consider any car with adaptive cruise control without driver monitoring, especially one that touts self driving capabilities.
- slg 6y agoBe my guest if you want to argue the merits of one system over another based on some technical specs or design decisions. My point is that the track records are not long enough to draw any statistical conclusions and the Tesla and Uber have killed people but Comma hasn't argument is at best wildly misleading given the large differences in miles driven.
- 6y ago
- yalogin 6y agoI don't know well the system works but do they plug into the cruise control mechanism? How are they able to provide the automatic braking functionality?
- cyrux004 6y agoFor supported cars, the car's stock AEB system still works as intended FOr some cars, openpilot only does lateral (steering) and doesnt do longitudinal (gas/brake), so the car's stock dynamic cruise control is in control which includes AEB
- bri3d 6y agoYes, they intercept whichever CAN bus in the target vehicle is used to send Adaptive Cruise Control and Automatic Lane Keeping messages, and send their own instead. On many target cars, they actually simply use the stock Adaptive Cruise Control and openpilot provides only the steering (ALK).
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoSeems like it could have disastrous results if the OEM components start talking on the bus, sharing a completely different state.
- bri3d 6y agoThis is generally handled in one of three ways: * Filtering the OEM messages to prevent them from reaching their destinations, which can be accomplished if Comma hardware is installed in the correct place in the bus to function as a two-ended "gateway" / "relay." Of course, then if the hardware or forwarding software fails, something else breaks... * Relying on the end-user disabling the OEM feature which could conflict with Comma, and signaling an error state if they do. * Relying on factory sequential integrity checking to overwrite factory messages by beating them in a timing race, causing the Comma messages to be "valid" and the factory messages "invalid" (no joke!). * Just "spamming" the message so it's received more often than the OEM ones. As you can tell, this is not a trustworthy safety product by any stretch of anyone's imagination.
- tekromancr 6y agoWait, founded by George Hotz? As in GeoHot? The PS3 jailbreak guy?
- miguelrochefort 6y agoYes. He's pretty famous for iOS jailbreaking as well.
- keskadale 6y agoYes. The very same. He does coding streams (sometimes comma related work) on his Twitch channel (twitch.tv/georgehotz). You can find the archive here (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwgKmJM4ZJQRJ-U5NjvR2dg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwgKmJM4ZJQRJ-U5NjvR2dg)
- cbracketdash 6y agoExactly.
- sj4nz 6y agoRecent interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcYp-XT7UI&list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcYp-XT7UI&list=PLrAXtmErZg...
- djitz 6y agoHe was on again a couple of months ago. https://youtu.be/_L3gNaAVjQ4 https://youtu.be/_L3gNaAVjQ4
- maxyme 6y agoAnd iPhone jailbreak guy back in the day!
- qbasic_forever 6y agoYes, same person: https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/13/17561484/george-hotz-comma-ai-self-driving-car-scam-diy-kit https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/13/17561484/george-hotz-comm...
- 6y ago
- focusgroup0 6y agoWould you drive to Tahoe in the snow with this?
- matthewowen 6y agoNot sure that's the right question to ask. It takes two hours to get from San Francisco to Auburn, and it's highly unusual to have snow there. Setting aside that I80 is generally cleared of snow very quickly, two hours of lane assist seems nice before tackling the remainder. And in most cases, it's more like "use this all the way to truckee and then drive the last 30 mins to squaw valley"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sfblah 6y agoI use my Nissan LKA all the way to maybe Colfax. Beyond that I'm skeptical any modern system can tolerate the relatively tight turns and varying road conditions even in the summer. Still, getting 2+ hours with LKA is really helpful.
- Gys 6y agohttps://comma.ai/faq https://comma.ai/faq Why even ask? Long trips means spending a lot of time boringly driving on the highway with clear weather. I do not care for help in the more difficult first 15 min or last 15 min. I care about having help during the many hours in between.
- qbasic_forever 6y agoIt's still a perfectly valid question, how will this system work in the snow? Even flat featureless highways get covered in snow and ice.
- Gys 6y agoYou clearly missed my ref to their faq: https://comma.ai/faq https://comma.ai/faq
- rvz 6y agoTheir business is not only taken less capital, but they have also just become profitable even with selling hardware which I find that impressive, unlike their other competitors who have either shutdown or have been acquired. As for their autopilot system, they are self-hosting their deep learning training systems (Not in the cloud but in-house) and their competition is literally off road and non-existent (expect for Tesla). The consumer report on comma.ai is also very interesting and outstanding: [0] One of the rare startups I've seen that are able to do this with less funding and still profitable with hardware. That's how you do it. Well done. EDIT: So the above is not true about comma.ai? As for the report, it shows the overall results of the design of assisted driving systems and the test results for comma.ai overall is that it is ranked 1st. For a startup with less capital than its competition it is very rare to see this especially with its own hardware. [0] https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/...
- exhilaration 6y agoFor the lazy, jump to page 7 of the above PDF (labeled page 6 in the doc), the section is called "Overall Ratings Results". The 3 highest scores are: 78 - Comma Two Open Pilot 69 - Cadillac Super Cruise 57 - Tesla Autopilot Well done indeed.
- delightful 6y agoIs it correct Comma.AI sees this as the following statement below appears to say, or am I missing something? If so, why would anyone be using this product outside of a test environment that’s fully controlled? — “Any user of this software shall indemnify and hold harmless comma.ai, Inc. and its directors, officers, employees, agents, stockholders, affiliates, subcontractors and customers from and against all allegations, claims, actions, suits, demands, damages, liabilities, obligations, losses, settlements, judgments, costs and expenses (including without limitation attorneys’ fees and costs) which arise out of, relate to or result from any use of this software by user. THIS IS ALPHA QUALITY SOFTWARE FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY. THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLYING WITH LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS. NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.” SOURCE: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/devel/README.md#supported-cars https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/devel/README.md#su... — EDIT: Here is the terms of use too, which appears to align to the prior legal clause above: https://my.comma.ai/terms https://my.comma.ai/terms
- cbracketdash 6y agoIt is still very early in its development stage so they do not want much liability.
- ta8645 6y agoNobody ever wants any liability if they can help it. But they shouldn't be marketing a product if they can't stand behind it.
- Justsignedup 6y agoThis. I could understand an early access game "it can shut down any time" but this is kind of my/family/friends lives on the line.
- agumonkey 6y agodid they ever ?
- 23iofj 6y ago
- jordache 6y agowait so many normal cars now have steering motors that you can actuate via OBD?? Is that just leveraging the lane keep assist feature on these modern cars? How much can that hardware steer for you?
- qbasic_forever 6y agoSince the early 2000's most cars have been using a drive-by-wire system for steering. They aren't exposed on OBD2 though, that's just for legacy emissions. Most are on a CAN bus but there isn't some big standard to control them all--it's very much a manufacturer by manufacturer thing right now.
- bri3d 6y agoThis is only partially true - the only cars which used "real" drive-by-wire (wheel -> computer -> steering actuator) were a few Infiniti vehicles, and even then they had a clutch which could re-engage a physical steering column. Rather, a few cars in the early 2000s and many since the early 2010s or so offer electric power steering assist: the steering wheel is still very much connected by a physical steering column to the steering rack, and normal steering input is purely physical - there's just also an electric motor attached to the rack to provide the usual power steering boost. And, that power steering assist can be controlled over a non-diagnostic CAN bus to facilitate LKA.
- bri3d 6y agoYes, this is usually leveraging the LKA feature. Depending on the manufacturer/car the LKA generally has a torque limit (to allow the driver to override the system by hand, and prevent wrist injuries from steering input) and an angle limit. Most cars (none, that I am aware of) do not allow the steering motor to be actuated over the OBD port, the CAN bus containing the steering/LKA sits behind a diagnostic gateway that doesn't pass steering messages. You need to tap into this CAN bus, which in the Comma product is accomplished by the connector at the rearview mirror (usually used for the stock lane-keeping assist camera).
- chrisseaton 6y ago
- Justsignedup 6y agoOkay, anecdotes aside... What level of autonomy does this provide? Is it just basically lane assist?
- jabroni_salad 6y agoI've seen a few videos of it. It really is just a half step up from active lane keeping. It will proactively keep you centered and manage your speed with no interaction, whereas normal lane keeping only kicks in if you are about to drift out of the lane.
- elil17 6y agoHonda LKA keeps you centered and lets you take your hands off the wheel.
- jedberg 6y agoOnly if you want to look like a drunk driver. I wish it worked like that, but all it does is jerk back to the center of the lane about half the time and then complain that "steering is required".
- birken 6y agoYes I really like the Honda adaptive cruise control, especially in bumper to bumper traffic. Does a fantastic job, saves a lot of driver fatigue and other than perhaps not being as smooth and fuel efficient as I could be, works exactly how you'd hope. The LKA on the other hand only works only about half the time even in perfect conditions, when it works it doesn't even do that good a job and you have to provide steering input every 10 seconds anyways. This is my experience on a 2020 Honda CRV so I assume this is among the best you can expect from Honda. I honestly did not know this product existed and am very tempted, because an upgraded version of the adaptive cruise control would be very tempting. I've found that monitoring that the car is doing the right thing is a lot less taxing than actually driving, but feels equally safe.
- easton 6y ago*$1,199 once you add in the required car harness to, you know, connect it to your car.
- qbasic_forever 6y agoAdding the self driving option to a Tesla model 3 or S is up to what, like $3000 now? (on top of whatever extra tech package you have to add too) This is pretty competitively priced. A lot of folks spend more than that just on upgrading the stereo in their car.
- brianwawok 6y agoHighway Autopilot is free and included on all current Teslas. For an additional 10k you can do a software upgrade to FSD which does things like lane changes, and autopark, and summon. Someday, it will also hopefully do this for city streets (15 public users are on a beta of it right now). But yah, you would never buy this on a Tesla, as the car includes a better version of it for free on all cars.
- anotheryou 6y agothat's cables? or the 3D printed mount?
- jedberg 6y agoUnless you already had the previous model. It's kinda nice that they don't make you get a new mount if you already have one.
- yepthatsreality 6y agoWhat an insufferable use of lowercase. I can't even identify the products in some text later on: ``` Your first three months of comma prime are free with the purchase of a comma two. ``` Later... ``` The comma two and openpilot are currently compatible with dozens of cars with new models being added regularly. See if your car is compatible or check out our complete list of compatible cars. ``` Why do first words of a sentence still get capitalization but not the actual proper nouns?
- beastman82 6y agoShady alert: I just clicked on one of the testimonials ("Jason S Co") and it seems apparent that it is an employee of Comma, all retweets of comma's main twitter account.
- beastman82 6y agoJust clicked on another and... it's another Comma retweet factory. This is a super shady business!
- madamelic 6y agoYeah, all three of the testimonials seem to be comma.ai employees. That's an awful look.
- cyrux004 6y agoI dont think there is an employee named Jason. Employees are active on discord and github.
- rvz 6y agoHere's a real testimonial: [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26147102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26147102
- leesec 6y agoIf you're concerned, there's also hundreds of hours of it being used on youtube by real users.
- moonbug 6y agothere's no way this is being sold into the EU.
- almost_usual 6y agoIt won't be sold but it will be used, it's open source.
- jeremycarter 6y agoNot sure I'm so keen on Python driving my car. I've looked through some of the code and I think for me to buy into the safety the quality of the code would need to be improved, well commented, and audited.
- qbasic_forever 6y agoHaha I just had a horrifying throught about troubleshooting broken virtualenv installs and deadlocked dependencies, while on the side of the road with a car that refuses to start.
- sosodev 6y agoThat actually sounds like a software developer horror story. Like goosebumps for devs.
- madamelic 6y agoThe real Goosebumps for devs is cars willing to take driving inputs over their built-in networks from outside the car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoTo be honest, the driver assist can be removed with a single connection, it just uses your car's automated parking system.
- tomcam 6y agoUsername noted
- wpietri 6y agoIt's not python I'm worried about here.
- azinman2 6y ago
- BooneJS 6y agoI tend to be a bargain shopper, but I don’t put my life in the hands of most of my deals.
- thethethethe 6y agoIt seems like the market for a product like this (augmenting older vehicles) will diminish over time as more and more vehicles come with these features plus rolling updates and more advanced sensors standard. If this proves to be the case, I wonder what the company will do to pivot
- trulyme 6y agoNot sure why the downvotes, it is a legit risk for this business. Remember how one could convert analog SLR cameras to digital with some kits? It wasn't a success story... EDIT: at least not for long.
- stjo 6y agoSell directly to manufacturers? Nearly no one (except Tesla) has anything coming in the near future. Why anyone they pay billions to develop the technology in-house if they can just pay Comma.ai to integrate a sub $1000 thingy in their cars.
- t0mas88 6y agoNearly all luxury brands have had lane keeping for years. Similar quality to what Tesla offers, just not marketed as broadly and typically not available on a model 3 kind of entry level. But at Tesla S price levels, all other manufacturers offer similar lane keeping and adaptive cruise capabilities.
- bri3d 6y agoI don't think Comma would pass compliance as any control-related automotive system, much less a self-driving one, at any established automotive manufacturer in a regulated market (US, EU). The code isn't written to any commercial audit standard that I can tell, the hardware is COTS mobile phone hardware, and change management and testing (in a formal sense) seems pretty much non-existent. Most manufacturers demand compliance with standards like ISO 26262 for liability reasons. Arguments about the value of these kinds of standards aside, it's vanishingly unlikely that any mature automaker would buy Comma's product as it stands - a major or nearly complete overhaul would be required. Now, that's not to say they couldn't sell into a less-mature company or one in an unregulated market, but I don't think the opportunity for them is as great as it seems. EDIT: On an additional reading of https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/SAFETY.md https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/SAFETY.md Comma claim to be ISO 26262 compliant on the premise that there's no real risk model, because the driver is paying attention and will simply take back control. One could call this the "Elon Model" to safety compliance. I suppose it works for some manufacturers. It does seem that starting around 2018, Comma added a C layer to their CAN intercept board (Panda) which audit-checks some safety-critical CAN messages to bounds-check the control inputs. That's... a start, but not really a detailed risk analysis model by any means.
- crazypython 6y agoIf self-driving companies really believed in their product, they would bundle car insurance that only works when self-driving is on with the product, and it would be cheaper than normal car insurance.
- gkop 6y agoIn fact we have the opposite, where MetroMile advertises lower premiums, while conveniently occupying your ODB2 port, without providing pass-through, preventing the use of Comma’s product (this honestly makes me consider switching from Geico to MetroMile, so I’m not subsidizing Comma customers, but there are other issues with MetroMile...).
- bpicolo 6y ago> so I’m not subsidizing Comma customers Is this a thing outside of a tiny subset of hackerspace?
- gkop 6y agoConsumer Reports rated Comma #1 for driver assistance tech, implying fitness for the mainstream market.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- crazysim 6y agoIt's a bussy thing so you could just get an OBD2 splitter. You can even tuck the metromile thing behind the dash if needed.
- gamegoblin 6y agoThe Comma AI founder has explicitly stated that their endgame was the insurance business. I'm not sure if he has since changed his stance on this. It makes sense, though, in a super surveillance-capitalism way. Offer a close-to-cost self-driving product and use the data to estimate the risk of everyone on the road (both the users of your product, but really anyone your product has eyes on). The comma AI founder has said it's remarkably easy in the data to identify good and bad drivers, and that there is a strong bimodal distribution.
- stunt 6y agoThis is a link to the homepage. Is there a new announcement? What is new about this? AFAIK Comma.ai has this since at least 2-3 years ago!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- samfisher83 6y agoThis was like 600 bucks a few years ago and they are using leco phone from about 4 years ago.
- Triv888 6y agoIts just priced to how much people are willing to pay for it like everything else, I guess.
- Black101 6y agoToo bad they don't support Mazda officially... because default the auto-bracking on my CX-5 is way too sensitive for my driving habits... and it comes to a complete stop as soon as it can even if the danger is out of the way.... I'm thinking about disabling it because I almost got rear-ended once.
- mmglr 6y agoIs the device running Android or something else? I understand this is marketed as a "dev kit". And I understand the cost benefit for shipping a COTS OnePlus phone to provide the camera and UI. But I wouldn't buy one of these due to how much windshield visibility is blocked by the device and the wire dangling from the headliner. It would be better to have the camera and wiring hidden away next to the rear view mirror similar to how other driver assist cameras are packaged, with a CAN connected processing box in the glovebox (so audible chimes can be made), and infotainment screen integration for the UI (perhaps as an Android or CarPlay app).
- ingenieroariel 6y agoLast time I checked, they have a stripped down Android that would run a custom Termux and a single app with UI and different threads. Some of the services in Python, some of them using C, all communicated using capnp over zeromq
- jordache 6y agoI just youtubed this guy and found a 10hr video of him programming for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hlb8YX2-W8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hlb8YX2-W8
- tim333 6y agoKind of cool it's Python and OpenCV. I've mucked about with that and it's quite beginner friendly.
- pascoej 6y agoI've been using this on/off since early 2019. Much better than stock honda LKAS / cruise control in terms of detecting lanes, lower speeds, etc. The driver monitoring has gotten a lot better as well. If you are inattentive (based on your gaze) and don't respond the the prompts quickly, it plays a loud alarm and disables the system (until the car restarts) to prevent something like the videos of people sleeping in Teslas you see online.
- strin 6y agois the "retrofit" strategy living in the past? living in 2021 it seems a bad choice to buy gasoline cars. Most new cars coming out will have some kind of driving assist (L2 autopilot).
- jedberg 6y agoIt's the opposite. I already own a compatible gas car. Instead of wasting resources on a new car, I can just retrofit the one I already own. Also, I desperately want an electric car. But I need a minivan because (post-pandemic) I'm often driving six people around who are elderly or children and can't climb into an SUV. There is no such electric van. This is the only way I can get "autopilot" in a van.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sabujp 6y agoso let me get this straight, this is a single camera, single point of failure device that you mount under your rear view mirror and trust your life with? ok...
- chris11 6y agoIt requires a car with adapative cruise control and also uses data from the cars stock radar.
- sabujp 6y agoare you sure it requires adaptive cruise control? I thought that was the entire point of the system?
- chris11 6y agoFull functionality requires both lane keep assist for steering and active cruise control for gas/brake. It uses data from car systems, but the model is closed so I'm not quite sure how the data is used. The website does list what cars are officially supported. People have gone a lot further to get it on older cars, make unofficial forks, or even add radar or swap EPS. It doesn't give you a self driving car, but I found it's significantly better than stock systems for highway driving.
- woeirua 6y agoIt's cool tech, but I think Comma's quickly running out of room for commercial success here because a single camera can only take you so far. With GM rolling out Supercruise onto the new Bolts next year, it's hard to see how these guys last for more than another couple of years. Best case for them is to get acquired by a desperate laggard, but that's not really a great outcome if you're an engineer at Comma.
- gregatragenet 6y agoSurprised how much hate there is here for this technology from people who never tried it. I've had one for a year. It is game-changing. You can drive what you like - it supports many different cars.. I can road trip for hours on autopilot and then drive my Subaru on rocky forest roads that would rip the undercarriage out of a Tesla.. It does adaptive cruise control and lane centering for hours on end.. Being able to relax (but monitor) for the 8+ hour drives up and down the state of California is great. Being able to adjust the radio, have a snack, or just sit with your hands in your lap while the car handles lanekeeping feels like a miracle. There is a 'dating' period when you get it where you and the autopilot learn each others limitations.. Knowing how steep a turn your car can do without hitting torque limits, learning to trust the ACC to slow down with traffic ahead, knowing how long you can sit in stop-and-go traffic without it disengaging (varies based on car and car capabilities), what light conditions it finds challenging (same ones as humans, driving into the sunset) etc. But now I know its limits, know how it notifies when it is reaching limits or unsure, I have full confidence in it when its working within its capabilities. For those who think this device is going to kill them -- the safeties built in make it virtually impossible. Yes the main device (Eon) runs python code. However there is a hardware device which acts as a firewall between the Eon and the CAN bus which prevents any commands beyond a (very low) torque limit such that the car cannot take any action which a human couldn't notice and correct within 1 second. BY FAR the most dangerous part of my drives continue to be the drivers surrounding me who don't look or signal when entering my lane.
- almost_usual 6y agoInvestors care more about making money than technology.
- dukedave 6y agoI've been using openpilot for about 6 months and this is exactly how I feel. Even if it did do something erratic (which it hasn't so far) the torque limit means there's just no way the car's going to do anything so fast and aggressively you couldn't take control.
- kirse 6y agoAs a motorcyclist, I figure I will eventually end up as a JIRA ticket in some "self-crashing car" system's backlog. But then again, that is the story of society - progress slowly built up over time on the pile of irradiated, mangled, dead and destroyed bodies over the course of millennia of lessons learned. Just hoping that they name the feature / patch after me.
- tolbish 6y agoThat would be bad for optics. Best they can do is name a variable after you in the crashing feedback algorithm.
- FreshFries 6y agoAs a IT person who's a motorcyclist, your remark "I figure I will eventually end up as a JIRA ticket" made me spill my coffee.
- TheGrassyKnoll 6y agoSo, if I install this, does my insurance go up, down, or get cancelled ?
- mechnesium 6y agoThe guy who developed this goes by the moniker geohot. He was the first person to ever jailbreak an iPhone, as a teenager. He then went on to do the same for the PS3. This guy is incredibly talented and is trying to put retrofit self-driving tech into the hands of everyone.
- gnicholas 6y agoSo how much do these things actually cost? The title makes it seem like it's $999, one-time. But the website refers to $24/car/month. And there also appears to be a $200 harness fee at installation. Are there other fees? I might be interested in a system like this, but I would only use this infrequently. If it costs $1,200 + tax up-front and about $300/yr in perpetuity, that seems like much less of a good deal.
- cyrux004 6y agoThe $24/year is optional if you want to remote login via cell service into your device. You can do certain things like take a picture remotely and in the future might be able to lock/unlock doors. So, its $1200 without that stuff. George is strictly against SaaS revenue model, although for software that is continually improving, seems reasonable to me ghost driving is planning to charge $99/month https://driveghost.com/sign-up https://driveghost.com/sign-up
- oliwarner 6y agoIt says our main cast isn't supported but I can "support it myself". Hack this into my own car and let it take control. Few things terrify me more than the thought of others' garage AI experiments bumping around on the roads my family walk along. Open source is great, but I don't want this driving cars without oversight and certification.
- tuckerpo 6y agogeohot is a maniac after watching a lot of his live coding content, i'm not sure i'd trust him or anyone he would consider a good hire to write code to drive my car for me