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This mindset just seems impossible to implement in general. If someone came to me and said "you should denounce suchandsuch Estonian law because it's terribly u

This mindset just seems impossible to implement in general. If someone came to me and said "you should denounce suchandsuch Estonian law because it's terribly unfair to burglary victims", I would have to decline - not because I think burglary victims don't matter, and not because I support the Estonian justice system, but simply because I have no idea what they're talking about and there's no easy way for me to find out.

ryandrake 6y ago
It's got to be absolutely exhausting! Even when I have the context to understand, I have trouble keeping up with the ever growing list of things I'm expected to be upset about, let alone have time to visibly denounce each of them.
- edoceo 6y ago
  It's simple: I'm mad at everything all the time. Everything sucks and we should change it. See! Easy! ;)
  - username90 6y ago
    > Everything sucks and we should change it. Careful there, now you just made the "both sides are bad" argument showing you support the bad guys!
ninth_ant 6y ago
But it’s not Estonian burglary law. It’s about racism. Your dancing around hypotheticals hides the core issues. So you’re right and you’re wrong. The people in this example don’t care about racist activities of people they support, which in itself is indirect support to mainstreaming these issues. Not understanding Estonian burglary law is understandable and forgivable, not understanding the negative impacts of racism is not. It would take willful determination to avoid learning even the basics of recent world history or current events and why it’s been such a problem. It’s not that hard to say “I find some of the ideas by X interesting and useful, but also I don’t support racism in any way.” I get that they don’t want to do it, but that’s the level support that enables the problematic culture to be pervasive.
- julianapostate 6y ago
  The word racism is meaningless to many people now. the definition is too encompassing and by denouncing it, particularly in conversation with a political activist, you have no clue what you are signing up for. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary-definition-racism-has-change/613324/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary... From the linked article: Merriam-Webster captures this as well, noting that racism can mean “a political or social system founded on racism.” So by denouncing racism I am literally denouncing the entirety of civilization I guess.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    To be honest… civilisation – at least, the parts the can be described as “a political or social system founded on racism” – isn't that great. If we just eliminated the government, eliminated all hierarchies larger than 100 people, eliminated all nations and laws and institutions… well, most of us would probably die very quickly. But that doesn't mean that what we have now is even in the top 20% of possible ways that civilisation could be.
    - prepend 6y ago
      > top 20% of possible ways that civilisation could be. This sort of an unmeasurable goal. I think we’re certainly in the top 20% of civilization from any time in history. Or top 20% ever attempted. It’s hard to tell how good all possible civilizations can be.
      - wizzwizz4 6y ago
        Yeah; what I wrote was absurd. Most civilisations can trivially be improved; we're definitely pretty high up the possibilities. I meant we're not in the top 20% of feasible possible civilisations anybody currently alive would want to put into place (which is a qualitative claim, not a quantitative one).
  - caseysoftware 6y ago

ryandrake 6y ago

It's got to be absolutely exhausting! Even when I have the context to understand, I have trouble keeping up with the ever growing list of things I'm expected to be upset about, let alone have time to visibly denounce each of them.

edoceo 6y ago
It's simple: I'm mad at everything all the time. Everything sucks and we should change it. See! Easy! ;)
- username90 6y ago
  > Everything sucks and we should change it. Careful there, now you just made the "both sides are bad" argument showing you support the bad guys!

ninth_ant 6y ago

But it’s not Estonian burglary law. It’s about racism. Your dancing around hypotheticals hides the core issues. So you’re right and you’re wrong. The people in this example don’t care about racist activities of people they support, which in itself is indirect support to mainstreaming these issues. Not understanding Estonian burglary law is understandable and forgivable, not understanding the negative impacts of racism is not. It would take willful determination to avoid learning even the basics of recent world history or current events and why it’s been such a problem. It’s not that hard to say “I find some of the ideas by X interesting and useful, but also I don’t support racism in any way.” I get that they don’t want to do it, but that’s the level support that enables the problematic culture to be pervasive.

julianapostate 6y ago
The word racism is meaningless to many people now. the definition is too encompassing and by denouncing it, particularly in conversation with a political activist, you have no clue what you are signing up for. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary-definition-racism-has-change/613324/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary... From the linked article: Merriam-Webster captures this as well, noting that racism can mean “a political or social system founded on racism.” So by denouncing racism I am literally denouncing the entirety of civilization I guess.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  To be honest… civilisation – at least, the parts the can be described as “a political or social system founded on racism” – isn't that great. If we just eliminated the government, eliminated all hierarchies larger than 100 people, eliminated all nations and laws and institutions… well, most of us would probably die very quickly. But that doesn't mean that what we have now is even in the top 20% of possible ways that civilisation could be.
  - prepend 6y ago
    > top 20% of possible ways that civilisation could be. This sort of an unmeasurable goal. I think we’re certainly in the top 20% of civilization from any time in history. Or top 20% ever attempted. It’s hard to tell how good all possible civilizations can be.
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      Yeah; what I wrote was absurd. Most civilisations can trivially be improved; we're definitely pretty high up the possibilities. I meant we're not in the top 20% of feasible possible civilisations anybody currently alive would want to put into place (which is a qualitative claim, not a quantitative one).
- caseysoftware 6y ago