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Czech gunmaker CZG buys Colt in cash and stock deal
- bluedino 6y agoBetter than Remington’s fate: being bought out by Cerebus
- yellowapple 6y agoA bummer that the Navajo Nation didn't buy 'em.
- aksss 6y agoThat would have been interesting for many, many reasons, the poetry of which being the least interesting. They're a sovereign nation so what happens when you manufacture guns in Indian country? How beholden are you to the BATF's regs, assuming you build with the intention of the firearm never leaving the res?
- m0ngr31 6y agoThat is an interesting question... Not sure what the answer would be. But I'm pretty sure they are still under federal law, just not individual states. So probably personal manufacturing fine, for sale (even on the res) would require an FFL.
- zhengyi13 6y agoWork to get every of-age tribe member a class 2 SOT. They're their own local law enforcement. Done.
- m0ngr31 6y agoWorks for me. Full-auto for the whole tribe!
- aksss 6y agoSeems the BATF thinks tribes are under their thumb, but then, that’s no different than how they regard everyone. These aren’t exactly applicable but seem to demonstrate that BATF has no problem enforcing its regs and the federal laws in Indian Country. “tribal police departments generally do not qualify for the exemption from payment of the transfer tax for NFA firearms, are not eligible to receive firearms interstate, and can not possess a ‘post-1986’ machinegun.”[0] “federal authorities alleged Ho-Chunk Inc. and its subsidiaries had violated federal tobacco laws by shipping and selling “untaxed, unstamped cigarettes to businesses in Nebraska other states.”[1] [0] https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/nfa-transfers-tribal-police-departments https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/nfa-transfers-trib... [1] https://www.indianz.com/News/2019/02/04/winnebago-tribe-still-fighting-back-a-ye.asp https://www.indianz.com/News/2019/02/04/winnebago-tribe-stil...
- dmix 6y agoThe CZ Scorpion EVO subreddit is one of the more active firearm ones on Reddit, not surprised here. https://old.reddit.com/r/czscorpion/ https://old.reddit.com/r/czscorpion/
- Erwin 6y agoThat's one cool looking gun. Like that futuristic FN Herstal's P90, featured in Stargate.
- SauciestGNU 6y agoIt's their modern omage to the CZ vz61 Skorpion, which appeared in GoldenEye 64 as the Klobb.
- dmix 6y agoA famous “bad guy” gun like the AK.
- dmix 6y agoIt’s known for being customizable. They had a good hold on one of those (expensive) hobbyist markets. One of my favourites almost has that sci-fi look too https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2EBu2zu.jpg https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/...
- floren 6y agoCZ makes damn fine guns, so this seems like one of the better outcomes--better than being bought by a maker of crap who wishes to apply a veneer of respectability through the Colt name.
- mmaunder 6y agoIndeed. Their 17 HMR with varmint barrel is a whole lot of fun and really accurate. (Same caliber as a BB gun but with a lot more powder, in case you’re not a gun geek)
- jcims 6y agoEither would be better than some gross private equity firm gobbling them up and sucking whatever meat remains off the bones.
- da_big_ghey 6y agoCough cough, Remington, cough cough.
- jcims 6y agopreeeeecisely
- CydeWeys 6y agoIt really is a damning indictment of how badly Colt has been mismanaged over the past few decades, what with firearms sales in the US at all-time highs starting with the Obama administration. They have unbelievable brand value, probably #1 in the world, but they failed so spectacularly to capitalize on it that they went bankrupt 5 years ago. There's a lesson here that's universally applicable well beyond gun manufacturers: You can't rest on your laurels and attempt to coast on brand value, even #1 brand value. You still always have to be competing.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- csunbird 6y agoI do not know much about how good Colt is doing, but isn't 220mil plus 18mil in stocks a bit cheap?
- Spooky23 6y agoI'd argue it's still a little high, most of these companies are on the wane. Guns in the US are near saturation from a market perspective and regulatory changes will eventually kick the floor out. Time to cash out... It's like when Phillip Morris bought Kraft and General Foods in the 80s to spin them off later when tobacco regulation came.
- rayiner 6y agoMonthly gun sales have about tripled since 2000, and we had a lot of guns even back then: https://www.google.com/search?q=gun+sales+per+year&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjfyKjC6-TuAhUPGFkFHRRuDVIQ_AUoAnoECBEQBA&biw=1241&bih=923#imgrc=6GQORGd1xC9EeM https://www.google.com/search?q=gun+sales+per+year&client=sa... As to regulatory changes: support for a handgun ban is the lowest its been since Gallup started tracking the statistic in 1959: https://news.gallup.com/poll/150341/record-low-favor-handgun-ban.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/150341/record-low-favor-handgun.... It's just 26% today, versus 60% in 1959. Unlike with tobacco, there's no big scientific study or educational campaign that's going to drop. Guns are a well-ventilated issue.
- groby_b 6y agoLike with tobacco, big studies have been suppressed. Guns are far from a well-ventilated issue, they're just well-entrenched. The Dickey amendment got clarified in 2018, and the first earmarks for research were for FY2020 - so, I'd say we wait with those proclamations a few more years.
- rayiner 6y agoWhat difference are those studies going to make? If Columbia University in the City of New York discovers you can use guns to kill people, are voters suddenly going to go "oh, well then!"
- ed_blackburn 6y agoDoesn't seem like a lot of money. Shame somebody didn't buy it and shutter it. Less guns in the world is better for everyone.
- suifbwish 6y agoYou have no idea how capitalist markets work apparently. If the DEA decided to buy up all the street drugs and burn them it would create a million new drug dealers overnight as the prices would spike. Less guns is not the solution. The solution is to round up all the humans and cut their thumbs off so they can’t use tools to kill each other.
- frongpik 6y agoThat's a solid solution, actually, and it would prevent fist fights as well.
- yellowapple 6y agoIf anything it'd make fistfights easier, since there's no thumb in the way. Not to mention kicks, slaps, and karate chops.
- KaiserPro 6y agoconversly, if you flooded the market with cheap "safe" drugs, the market would drop out entirely. as for guns, the solution is societal change. However removing handguns, and limiting the legal reasons to be wondering around the streets with a gun would also help.
- njharman 6y agoThe true mission of Elons brain interface. Save us from our thumbless future.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoWe've all grown so comfortable in modern America that we forget that default state of human nature is subjugation and repression and has been for thousands of years. Modern America is a historical anomaly. The powerful aren't peaceful by choice. It's the SECOND amendment in the constitution for a reason.
- AlgorithmicTime 6y agoSmallArmsSolutions used to work for Colt, he's got some insightful thoughts on the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSMQ7S0NNNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSMQ7S0NNNU
- chmod600 6y ago"God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!” https://www.historyandheadlines.com/march-5-1836-god-created-men-sam-colt-made-equalold-west-adage/ https://www.historyandheadlines.com/march-5-1836-god-created...
- exabrial 6y agoCZ has handled it's past mergers pretty well. I was pretty bummed with the Dan Wesson purchase, but overall I don't think much changed other than the logo.
- wassenaar10 6y agoCZ is a really good company. Colt, on the other hand, hasn't been good in decades. It will be interesting to see what they do with the acquisition.
- dirtyoldmick 6y agoCzech guns are the best guns.
- throwawaysea 6y agoCan someone more familiar with this world explain where the law ended up on building your own guns? I recall a controversy around whether you can even share open source 3D printing plans (which to me felt like a violation of the first amendment) but leaving that aside, I've also heard that it is possible to do so using more traditional methods.
- m0ngr31 6y agoIn a majority of states you can manufacture your own firearms as long as you didn't build them with the intent to sell. To do that would require an FFL. I can't remember exactly, but in California you can make your own, but it has to have a serial number. I can't remember what other restrictions they have.
- blisterpeanuts 6y agoI have a memory that around 10 years ago, Australia banned the very act of downloading and possessing 3-D files to make firearms. Theoretically, if your computer is seized and found to contain the SolidWorks files to make a Ruger, for example, you can be prosecuted. However I don't know that this was enacted into national law or later struck down. A man in Queensland was given a suspended sentence for printing parts of a gun that did not together constitute a usable gun without some additional pieces[1]. Apparently there have been efforts there to ban 3-D printing of guns but so far they have not been successful. In the U.S., while it is physically possible to do anything within the privacy of one's home, it is technically illegal to print a gun if you are not legally permitted to possess one.[2] There are also existing laws on the books against plastic/undetectable guns which presumably would apply as well to resin/PETG/PLA printed firearms that have few or zero metal parts. Actually, one wonders why there haven't been more incidents of plastic guns smuggled onto aircraft in recent years, perhaps because K9 teams of bomb sniffing hounds are randomly used to detect bomb-making ingredients while standing in line at security. They are trained presumably to smell gunpowder as well as other chemicals. Leave your "Gunpowder Solid Men's Cologne" at home. 1. http://www.australasianscience.com.au/article/science-and-technology/legal-minefield-3d-printed-guns.html http://www.australasianscience.com.au/article/science-and-te... 2. https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/legal-3d-gun https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/legal-3d-gun
- lutoma 6y agoHonest question: How is this relevant to Hacker News? As a non-American i was rather bewildered to find this here. Is there a serious overlap between gun enthusiasts and the IT community in the US?
- Teknoman117 6y agoI'm an American working as a software engineer for a tech company and I'm a gun enthusiast. Do I carry one with me? No. Do I have any set up for home defense? No. Do I enjoy shooting high power rifles at the range on the weekend? You bet I do. FWIW I own more tech stuff by value than guns, so, there's that.
- dfxm12 6y agoI don't think it matters where you're from, I don't see how hackers/start up entrepreneurs would be particularly interested in this story or how this even gratifies one's intellectual curiosity, either. But I feel that way about many articles that find their way to the front page. I checked the comments expecting that I missed some interesting context, but I didn't. In any case, it's not too much of a burden to flag/hide and move along.
- arkitaip 6y agoHN is much more conservative and libertarian than you might think.
- aksss 6y agoI think this is part of being very systems-oriented and technically-minded. Appreciating the liabilities and brittleness of systems but also the fallibility of men and their aspirations/intentions. The focus on garbage-in/garbage-out, the primacy of an “RTFM” ethos of learning and understanding obscure phenomenon that affect outcomes. Probably some degree of being perpetually frustrated with a “user community” that can’t be bothered to really appreciate how things work spills into policy discussions.
- mhh__ 6y agoE.g. criticise the Orangeman and watch the downvotes pour in. Criticise his opponents, or have some contrarian defence of him, not much happens.
- anonlawyer 6y agoI'd say $220 mil is a pretty good price for a company that hasn't introduced an innovative product in 50 years. Colt's main products are the AR-15 (introduced ~1963), the various 1911 models (introduced in—duh—1911), and the single action army revolvers (introduced in 1873). It must be a hell of a marketing effort to keep flogging 50–150 year old products.
- kec 6y agoCan you name any small arms manufacturer who has introduced a successful, innovative design in the past 50 years? The design space seems pretty well explored at this point.
- philwelch 6y agoGlock is a fairly obvious one.
- zhengyi13 6y agoSig's recent P320 system is another obvious example, where they've completely modularized the fire control group, allowing that to be swapped freely between multiple grips, calibers, and even form factors.
- AlgorithmicTime 6y agoYeah but that's only made convenient by dumb laws.
- handedness 6y agoVouched for this as it's a good point for anyone who understands the P320 FCU and the legal framework which inspired its creation. The FCU concept would still have value were the legal framework less Byzantine, but its practical benefits would be significantly diminished.
- kec 6y ago
- Proven 6y agoExcellent news, I hope to buy Colt products in the EU!
- koolk3ychain 6y agoThis is likely a move so they can continue to either a) import firearms from outside of the US for sale or b) to gain traction and tooling to produce CZ products domestically in the case that the Biden Admin actually gets some form of "assault weapon" ban passed. It's important to note, they'll include pistols that hold more than 15 rounds as "assault weapons".
- quantguy 6y agoI'm so happy to see this posted here along with the lively and mostly civil discussion. There is a lot of crossover between the tech and firearms community and for good reasons. The engineering and design of the firearms, gear and especially optics is fascinating. The external ballistics and math involved to hit targets at 1000 yards and beyond with all of the apps and sensors required. The breathing, aiming and movement techniques brings a nice physical element as well. I've taken several firearms classes over the years and I'm amazed at how many hardcore tech people I meet there - top engineers at top companies (Uber, Google, etc.). These aren't mid-level PMs or entry-level script kiddies either; these are the top guys solving for the hardest engineering problems. Despite the stereotypes, the tech community as with all other communities is not a monolith that walks in lockstep. It's disappointing that some of us need to hide our hobbies from those who would unfairly pass judgment because of their own phobias and biases. The firearms community is no different than the people who are into fast cars, motorcycles, beer making, wine tasting, maker faire, etc.