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I have a Model 3 that is less than 2 years old. The build quality is terrible. The side of my Model 3 trim on the inside just fell off for no goddamn reason. I

I have a Model 3 that is less than 2 years old. The build quality is terrible. The side of my Model 3 trim on the inside just fell off for no goddamn reason. I don't even know how to fix it, it looks like the glue wasn't applied properly? This is on top of countless other problems that I've faced over the last 2 years. It's impossible that Tesla is 3X the market cap of Toyota Why they didn't stop buying of Tesla the same way they stopped GME is criminal. And they keep failing external quality tests and no one seems to care: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-failed-every-edmunds-ev-222022183.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-failed-every-edmunds-e...

draw_down 6y ago
I mean, they got your money... and people are still falling all over themselves to give Tesla their money... their stock price has gone extremely high... so I guess I wonder how much of a problem this really is for them. Doesn't seem to affect their brand, even if one thinks it should.
smmnyc 6y ago
For what it's worth, my Model 3 from December 2018 with 35K miles on it has only had one issue (with squeaking upper control arms) and they replaced it under warranty, coordinated through the mobile app. I haven't had any other issues that would indicate build quality is terrible.
- tristanb 6y ago
  Same here - I have a 2018 model 3 and its gone in once to get a warning for the seat belt fixed. Its got 45k miles and had no other issues. Best car I've owned.
  - kalium-xyz 6y ago
    The best car I ever owned is my current car, a 16 year old Audi that had many prior owners and has nearly 300.000km on the teller. Its never given me trouble and anything you run into you can fix yourself with volkswagen parts. The build quality comes into play sooner than later.
    - caycep 6y ago
      Ah that's good to hear. I have heard some model years of Audi were notorious for reliability, maybe coinciding with the dips in VWAG quality in general, but they are one of the few makers of station wagons selling them in the US anymore and I might seriously consider an A4 or A6 wagon... I think maybe a lot of their bad rep came from the all road "Air suspension" era...although the simple fix was to install regular shocks/springs.
    - tristanb 6y ago
      My other vehicle is a 60s Royal Enfield, which operates at the other end of the reliability spectrum.
- mohaine 6y ago
  Agree, Mine is a Model 3 from May 2018 with 22k. I've only had a couple of small issues, (Infotainment computer would fail to wake back up often and a bad switch on break pedal meant to register a foot but no press) both fixed with no issues. Judging by the serial number on my included diecast mine was close to one of the first 12k produced.
- sib 6y ago
  I also have a Model 3 from December 2018. No issues / defects at all. I have had mobile service for things like rotating tires and installing a rear spoiler. Better "initial quality" experience than the VW and Subaru vehicles that I've purchased.
bluesquared 6y ago
I just recently got a Chevy Bolt. 240 mile range for 1/2 of the cheapest Model 3 (used, paid in cash). It has the typical GM fit-and-finish, nowhere near what I'd demand out of a car with an MSRP at ~$43k with the trim level I have. GM took so many shortcuts with materials and design choices in what I assume was an attempt to not take a loss on each Bolt sold. Aside from a pretty nice big infotainment screen, it lacks the features, fit, and finish that I'd demand from a $20k car. I still love it, very peppy electric motor, drives well, plenty of space for a baby seat and passengers, decent cargo room. It's still a bargain GM car at luxury prices, you'd be nuts to pay full MSRP for this vehicle. I got a great deal on a used one; tons of great deals were to be had on cars coming off of the first batch of 3-year leases until the battery recall put a stop-sale on everything at GM dealerships. I know they don't stack up good against other brands comparing MSRP to MSRP, but I have to wonder how bad Tesla's "initial quality" really compares against all of the electric options out now.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > 240 mile range for 1/2 of the cheapest Model 3 (used, paid in cash). Do you get near the 240-mile rated range? I ask because... https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons... 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance: 256 miles under test. 310 miles EPA-estimated. It seems like some EPA EV ranges are not very realistic. -------- Edmunds tested 277 miles on the 2020 Chevy Bolt. But I'm interested in hearing your personal experience.
  - bluesquared 6y ago
    Right now with the cold, the car is telling me ~150 miles. But this is during below-freezing temperatures in the midwest, and I've only had it for a few weeks. My commute is ~3.5 miles, around town trips of no more than 10 miles round-trip, and I don't typically precondition before my drives. From what I've read, the 240 mile estimate is pretty accurate - some more spirited driving will obviously have you fall short of that number, and some users have reported getting more than 240 miles.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
canada_dry 6y ago
> no one seems to care Shareholders only care about increasing the volume of cars rolling off the assembly line. Tesla was on my short list of next car purchases... but now that the old guard are getting fully into the game it's very unlikely (unless Tesla is able to pull a Jaguar like quality rebound or they actually deliver on "full" self driving).
alfalfasprout 6y ago
Frankly people give Tesla a pass for things that would be unacceptable from any other automaker. The reality is that I don't see Tesla coming anywhere close to the build quality of established high end brands anytime soon. You compare eg; a Mercedes or Porsche interior with a comparably priced Model S and it's no contest.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Absolutely. My 2017 Audi A4 is a far nicer, higher quality build than the last (similar era) Model S that I was in. And it's not even close.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/9/22274376/audi-etron-gt-rs-electric-car-specs-price https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/9/22274376/audi-etron-gt-rs-... I posted this the other day. I think most people agree the Germans make better interiors. But nobody can deny Tesla has a superior charging network, and for the vast majority of people their battery technology is superior (longer ranger, but more prone to overheating from aggressive driving). I think Tesla is just riding the underdog wave extremely well - they're new, they're different, they're trendy, and they're eco-friendly. And honestly, if you're not a car person, their cars are fun and different (if you are an enthusiast you will likely have very mixed opinions of Tesla). Combine that with a CEO that can bend the laws of reality while he talks, promises for full self-driving which will absolutely never ever materialize, the fact that the competition is really quite slow to show up...and you get a ridiculous stock price. I don't think Tesla is going away, but I think in 10 years they're going to be just another car company, especially if they shift their focus towards energy which is where the real money is for them.
    - Someone 6y ago
      “and they're eco-friendly.” They certainly have that image, but I think an eco-friendly electric car would have to be smaller and lighter, even if that means decreasing range. Going for a long range makes their cars unnecessarily heavy. That makes them require more power and increases tire and road wear. I also think the competition is timing its entry quite well, arriving close to the moment when it becomes possible to make money making electric cars.
szczys 6y ago
I don't have a Tesla, but I had upholstery on the backs of the rear seats (the part that becomes the floor of the hatchback when you fold them down) all off on my Ford C-Max. It looks like an adhesive failure there. Not making excuses for the big T, just saying that there's a lot places for things to work out poorly in automotive.
- dotancohen 6y ago
  > I had upholstery on the backs of the rear seats (the part that > becomes the floor of the hatchback when you fold them down) all > off on my Ford C-Max. It looks like an adhesive failure there. The wife's Focus has the same issue.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Pretty much all GMs in the 80s had problem with summer heat eventually separating the headliner cloth from the padding.
    - Aeronwen 6y ago
      The foam padding breaks down and even though the glue holds, there's nothing for it to hold the cloth to but dust.
caycep 6y ago
I kind of wonder - how much of the valuation is actually in cars/car sales vs. the charger/battery infrastructure and expertise that they are building?
- csours 6y ago
  The valuation is entirely in Full Self Driving and Memes. Disclaimer: I work for a Tesla competitor.
gruez 6y ago
>It's impossible that Tesla is 3X the market cap of Toyota Why they didn't stop buying of Tesla the same way they stopped GME is criminal. GME wasn't stopped because it was too overpriced. A few brokerages stopped accepting new GME positions because they couldn't afford the deposit requirements. That's it. If you went with another broker (eg. fidelity), you could buy all the GME you want.
kryogen1c 6y ago
> It's impossible that Tesla is 3X the market cap of Toyota Why they didn't stop buying of Tesla the same way they stopped GME is criminal. ...what? - GME trading wasn't halted. some high profile platforms like robinhood went literally insolvent and had to put a stop to some volatile stock trades and borrow billions in cash to stay legal. other well-capitalized platforms never restricted GME. - related to above, GME wasn't halted on some platforms because of some market-cap vs actual value mismatch. this is not a thing. - as for the market cap, well... prevailing wisdom is we're in some kind of bubble. something bad will happen eventually.
wilhil 6y ago
Can't agree enough. I'm not wealthy, but, got enough to be happy... I really wanted to treat myself to a Tesla and went to the local shop a while ago and I went out thinking - I'm not buying this. The glovebox required such force to close. I put my arm on the armrest and the rear drinks holder opened The centre console was VERY loose. and so many other problems. Compare this to a family member's ~£13k Hyundai i10 where the gear selector was SOLID, I just didn't feel like the Tesla (Model S) was good value for money in the slightest. I don't think anyone can touch them technically (yet), but, they have A LOT to learn about building cars.

draw_down 6y ago

I mean, they got your money... and people are still falling all over themselves to give Tesla their money... their stock price has gone extremely high... so I guess I wonder how much of a problem this really is for them. Doesn't seem to affect their brand, even if one thinks it should.

smmnyc 6y ago

For what it's worth, my Model 3 from December 2018 with 35K miles on it has only had one issue (with squeaking upper control arms) and they replaced it under warranty, coordinated through the mobile app. I haven't had any other issues that would indicate build quality is terrible.

tristanb 6y ago
Same here - I have a 2018 model 3 and its gone in once to get a warning for the seat belt fixed. Its got 45k miles and had no other issues. Best car I've owned.
- kalium-xyz 6y ago
  The best car I ever owned is my current car, a 16 year old Audi that had many prior owners and has nearly 300.000km on the teller. Its never given me trouble and anything you run into you can fix yourself with volkswagen parts. The build quality comes into play sooner than later.
  - caycep 6y ago
    Ah that's good to hear. I have heard some model years of Audi were notorious for reliability, maybe coinciding with the dips in VWAG quality in general, but they are one of the few makers of station wagons selling them in the US anymore and I might seriously consider an A4 or A6 wagon... I think maybe a lot of their bad rep came from the all road "Air suspension" era...although the simple fix was to install regular shocks/springs.
  - tristanb 6y ago
    My other vehicle is a 60s Royal Enfield, which operates at the other end of the reliability spectrum.
mohaine 6y ago
Agree, Mine is a Model 3 from May 2018 with 22k. I've only had a couple of small issues, (Infotainment computer would fail to wake back up often and a bad switch on break pedal meant to register a foot but no press) both fixed with no issues. Judging by the serial number on my included diecast mine was close to one of the first 12k produced.
sib 6y ago
I also have a Model 3 from December 2018. No issues / defects at all. I have had mobile service for things like rotating tires and installing a rear spoiler. Better "initial quality" experience than the VW and Subaru vehicles that I've purchased.

bluesquared 6y ago

I just recently got a Chevy Bolt. 240 mile range for 1/2 of the cheapest Model 3 (used, paid in cash). It has the typical GM fit-and-finish, nowhere near what I'd demand out of a car with an MSRP at ~$43k with the trim level I have. GM took so many shortcuts with materials and design choices in what I assume was an attempt to not take a loss on each Bolt sold. Aside from a pretty nice big infotainment screen, it lacks the features, fit, and finish that I'd demand from a $20k car. I still love it, very peppy electric motor, drives well, plenty of space for a baby seat and passengers, decent cargo room. It's still a bargain GM car at luxury prices, you'd be nuts to pay full MSRP for this vehicle. I got a great deal on a used one; tons of great deals were to be had on cars coming off of the first batch of 3-year leases until the battery recall put a stop-sale on everything at GM dealerships. I know they don't stack up good against other brands comparing MSRP to MSRP, but I have to wonder how bad Tesla's "initial quality" really compares against all of the electric options out now.

dragontamer 6y ago
> 240 mile range for 1/2 of the cheapest Model 3 (used, paid in cash). Do you get near the 240-mile rated range? I ask because... https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons... 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance: 256 miles under test. 310 miles EPA-estimated. It seems like some EPA EV ranges are not very realistic. -------- Edmunds tested 277 miles on the 2020 Chevy Bolt. But I'm interested in hearing your personal experience.
- bluesquared 6y ago
  Right now with the cold, the car is telling me ~150 miles. But this is during below-freezing temperatures in the midwest, and I've only had it for a few weeks. My commute is ~3.5 miles, around town trips of no more than 10 miles round-trip, and I don't typically precondition before my drives. From what I've read, the 240 mile estimate is pretty accurate - some more spirited driving will obviously have you fall short of that number, and some users have reported getting more than 240 miles.
- rootusrootus 6y ago

canada_dry 6y ago

> no one seems to care Shareholders only care about increasing the volume of cars rolling off the assembly line. Tesla was on my short list of next car purchases... but now that the old guard are getting fully into the game it's very unlikely (unless Tesla is able to pull a Jaguar like quality rebound or they actually deliver on "full" self driving).

alfalfasprout 6y ago

Frankly people give Tesla a pass for things that would be unacceptable from any other automaker. The reality is that I don't see Tesla coming anywhere close to the build quality of established high end brands anytime soon. You compare eg; a Mercedes or Porsche interior with a comparably priced Model S and it's no contest.

FireBeyond 6y ago
Absolutely. My 2017 Audi A4 is a far nicer, higher quality build than the last (similar era) Model S that I was in. And it's not even close.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/9/22274376/audi-etron-gt-rs-electric-car-specs-price https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/9/22274376/audi-etron-gt-rs-... I posted this the other day. I think most people agree the Germans make better interiors. But nobody can deny Tesla has a superior charging network, and for the vast majority of people their battery technology is superior (longer ranger, but more prone to overheating from aggressive driving). I think Tesla is just riding the underdog wave extremely well - they're new, they're different, they're trendy, and they're eco-friendly. And honestly, if you're not a car person, their cars are fun and different (if you are an enthusiast you will likely have very mixed opinions of Tesla). Combine that with a CEO that can bend the laws of reality while he talks, promises for full self-driving which will absolutely never ever materialize, the fact that the competition is really quite slow to show up...and you get a ridiculous stock price. I don't think Tesla is going away, but I think in 10 years they're going to be just another car company, especially if they shift their focus towards energy which is where the real money is for them.
  - Someone 6y ago
    “and they're eco-friendly.” They certainly have that image, but I think an eco-friendly electric car would have to be smaller and lighter, even if that means decreasing range. Going for a long range makes their cars unnecessarily heavy. That makes them require more power and increases tire and road wear. I also think the competition is timing its entry quite well, arriving close to the moment when it becomes possible to make money making electric cars.

szczys 6y ago

I don't have a Tesla, but I had upholstery on the backs of the rear seats (the part that becomes the floor of the hatchback when you fold them down) all off on my Ford C-Max. It looks like an adhesive failure there. Not making excuses for the big T, just saying that there's a lot places for things to work out poorly in automotive.

dotancohen 6y ago
> I had upholstery on the backs of the rear seats (the part that > becomes the floor of the hatchback when you fold them down) all > off on my Ford C-Max. It looks like an adhesive failure there. The wife's Focus has the same issue.
- hinkley 6y ago
  Pretty much all GMs in the 80s had problem with summer heat eventually separating the headliner cloth from the padding.
  - Aeronwen 6y ago
    The foam padding breaks down and even though the glue holds, there's nothing for it to hold the cloth to but dust.

caycep 6y ago

I kind of wonder - how much of the valuation is actually in cars/car sales vs. the charger/battery infrastructure and expertise that they are building?

csours 6y ago
The valuation is entirely in Full Self Driving and Memes. Disclaimer: I work for a Tesla competitor.

gruez 6y ago

>It's impossible that Tesla is 3X the market cap of Toyota Why they didn't stop buying of Tesla the same way they stopped GME is criminal. GME wasn't stopped because it was too overpriced. A few brokerages stopped accepting new GME positions because they couldn't afford the deposit requirements. That's it. If you went with another broker (eg. fidelity), you could buy all the GME you want.

kryogen1c 6y ago

> It's impossible that Tesla is 3X the market cap of Toyota Why they didn't stop buying of Tesla the same way they stopped GME is criminal. ...what? - GME trading wasn't halted. some high profile platforms like robinhood went literally insolvent and had to put a stop to some volatile stock trades and borrow billions in cash to stay legal. other well-capitalized platforms never restricted GME. - related to above, GME wasn't halted on some platforms because of some market-cap vs actual value mismatch. this is not a thing. - as for the market cap, well... prevailing wisdom is we're in some kind of bubble. something bad will happen eventually.

wilhil 6y ago

Can't agree enough. I'm not wealthy, but, got enough to be happy... I really wanted to treat myself to a Tesla and went to the local shop a while ago and I went out thinking - I'm not buying this. The glovebox required such force to close. I put my arm on the armrest and the rear drinks holder opened The centre console was VERY loose. and so many other problems. Compare this to a family member's ~£13k Hyundai i10 where the gear selector was SOLID, I just didn't feel like the Tesla (Model S) was good value for money in the slightest. I don't think anyone can touch them technically (yet), but, they have A LOT to learn about building cars.