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I used to say turbo tax wasn't that bad, and that free filing was easy if you just ignored their promises to save you money if you upgraded. Last year however

I used to say turbo tax wasn't that bad, and that free filing was easy if you just ignored their promises to save you money if you upgraded. Last year however I got all the way to the end of the process where they revealed I made too much and had to pay. That felt extremely unethical, as the information required to come to that conclusion was available far earlier in the process. And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the cost.

DavidPeiffer 6y ago
>And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the cost. I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. Federal is always free, and state taxes are ~12/state. I don't have anything obscure about my taxes, and their forms indicate they can handle much more complicated situations than I have. I've used them for 3 years now, with no issues. I will say their system is a bit clunky. I feel like I get in loops sometimes where I go through already filled in information and wish I could just jump to the next section. I wish they would give me more questions on each page so I can better understand how a response to one question filters through down the line.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Why not use the official IRS free file forms?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Based on this site[0], it looks like you have to use a 'partner' to file the forms if you make under $72,000 a year, is that right? 0: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
    - patentatt 6y ago
      The IRS site gives that impression, but I believe that's not the case. There is "IRS Free File" which is income limited as you mention, but there is also "Free File Fillable Forms" which appears to not be income limited. Intentionally misleading if you ask me.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Yes, and I presume it’s because some corrupt legislators are twisting the IRS’ arm on behalf of Intuit.
    - LocalH 6y ago
      I don’t feel like that’s required, more like if you make over $72,000 that you’re required to file the forms yourself
    - jandrese 6y ago
      The wording is confusing (I think this is an IRS requirement having read the documentation for many years now) but what it is saying is that if you make under $72,000/year there are a ton of free options available. If you make more than $72,000 this is supposedly the only free e-file option available. The whole thing is a mess because TurboTax and H&R Block and the like want to stay in business. If the process is too easy then the middlemen won't survive.
  - DavidPeiffer 6y ago
    I find it more approachable to use the question/answer format compared to reading all of the instructions on detail, determining if that particular section applies to me, and wondering if I found every form to cover every situation from the last year. An example is figuring out whether I would owe taxes on the gain from the sale of a primary residence I owned for less than 2 years. Figuring that out manually took some googling, finding an IRS guide, reading multiple pages of regulations along with exceptions and determining where I stood. Another is determining HSA contribution limits when my wife and I were in individual HDHP plans part of the year, and a family plan the remainder.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      If your tax situation doesn't change from year to year you don't need to scour the instructions. Just work through the forms using last year's return as a guide.
      - wernercd 6y ago
        Except things change from year to year so even if YOU don't change, the underlying tax laws move over time.
        JadeNB 6y ago
        And there have been a lot of tax changes recently. Although my personal situation didn't change significantly, the filing experience changed more during the past administration than in the 10 years I'd been filing taxes before that, even though those previous 10 years included multiple moves and changes of jobs, and the purchase of a house.
      - astura 6y ago
        They changed form 1040 drastically a year or two ago. Plus tax law changes from year to year.
        jxramos 6y ago
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    Does the IRS allow direct e-filing? At least as of last year, it seemed that you still had to go through someone else to file electronically (although the forms are freely available).
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Yes, I’ve been using IRS free fillable forms for over 10 years, I think, with no middleman between me and the IRS. Similar with my state taxes on my state’s revenue website.
      - JadeNB 6y ago
        Sorry, so, just to be clear: you've been filing your forms electronically with the IRS, not printing out the filled forms and mailing them? How? I swear I've looked, and been unable to find a way to file electronically (although I agree it's easy to find the form), except if you fall into certain income categories. I've even been told that it's intentionally legally impossible, as a way for the IRS to avoid competing with private providers. (State taxes are a different matter; I've paid Illinois and Michigan taxes recently, and they do provide an easy and obvious way to e-file directly with the state.)
        jsmith45 6y ago
        https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ is the site. It is technically not an IRS service, but one provided by the free file alliance as part of the IRS agreement not to build their own software. There are no income exclusions or anything. It is possible you will be unable to use it if you have to use some really obscure forms, but it does have all the forms that paid Turbo Tax can file for you. You also might not be able to use it if you have one of those weird tax situations where the IRS instructs you to write a message across the top of your 1040.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Yes, I use the link here: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... It’s all electronic. You get an email confirmation.
  - vlunkr 6y ago
    As another freetaxusa user, I would rather pay a very small fee to have the tool walk me through the process than try to figure it out myself.
  - dizzant 6y ago
    I tried Free File Fillable Forms last year on principal, but I ran into issues in two areas: 1. reporting scholarship income (goes on the line beside box 1 and nowhere else), and 2. state taxes are not supported, and my state does not have an equivalent service.
    - jxramos 6y ago
      It's really frustrating that states have not adopted an equivalent service. I actually filed paper forms for mine because their free service is a simplified approximation of the full form and leaves out certain workflows that limit its scope of complexity.
  - carabiner 6y ago
    I did in college. If your tax situation is nontrival it can take a very long time and has lots of room for error. I made a mistake and owed a $200 penalty for it back then. Software walks you through it and automates all of the arithmetic, number copying, and prevents fat finger errors.
  - astura 6y ago
    When my tax situation was very simple I was happy to do my taxes on paper, often using form 1040-EZ, which only took about 10 minutes. Now that they are complicated (lots of different 1099s and business income) I very much prefer to use software to guide me questions and answers style.
- abaga129 6y ago
  I'm using freetaxusa.com for the first time this year. I got fed up with TurboTax after being hit with a similar anti-pattern as the ones described above. Got almost to the end and was told I had to pay $80 to file. This was after spending hours on my taxes because there are some things that can't simply be updated.. no you have to completely start the process over from the beginning. This felt intentional so that I would just accept the cost to be done with it. After learning about how TurboTax lobbies to make filing more difficult, I swore I would not use them any longer. I also take everything opportunity to let people know about TurboTax's lobbying. So far freetaxusa.com seems better than TurboTax IMO. It's cleaner and to the point. No unnecessary animations or any of that nonsense.
  - DavidPeiffer 6y ago
    Every year I internally gripe about the UI improvements I'd prefer, but fully recognize it is better than TurboTax, and is approachable to people with a wide range of computer literacy.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  Here in Sweden I go to the tax office website, log in, have a brief look at that all my salary has been correctly entered (I have yet to encounter that it hasn't) add if I possibly want to deduct some extra things (also very uncomplicated), go to file and click send (the whole thing can even be done on mobile) . The process typically takes 20min max, Australia was quite similar. I'm always amazed by tax systems which seem to be so complicated that you almost always need an accountant (I know my parents in Germany always had one, even though their job did not imply more complex taxes than mine)
  - ivalm 6y ago
    If all your taxes are just wages then you just fill out a two page form (1040). Literally just copy a couple of numbers from your w2 and you’re good. The problem is if you have non-salary sources of income (eg stock, non-employee compensation, etc) then things can rapidly become very complicated.
    - criddell 6y ago
      You're right, but I think cycomanic has a point. Why do you even have to fill out the 1040? Why isn't there a default option where you can review tax forms that have already been filled out with the the information the IRS has already received?
      - jjeaff 6y ago
        That has been proposed. But has been shot down by powerful lobbying groups. One being the tax prep software companies, but another being a conservative group that objects to making paying tax easier because then it will become too easy for the government to just keep raising taxes. The idea is that if you have to file your taxes every year, you have to acknowledge how much you are paying.
  - spullara 6y ago
    If your taxes are easy in Sweden / Australia they would be easy in the US.
- dizzant 6y ago
  Let me add my recommendation for FreeTaxUSA.com. I am a newly married grad student on fellowship, which implies juggling estimated taxes, confusing withholding rules, scholarship income, a name change, and first-time joint filing. Needless to say, I am not a "simple" case. After TurboTax failed to prepare my forms correctly (!) and wanted to charge me for the displeasure, I went looking for an alternative. FreeTaxUSA.com is where I landed. The interface is fairly minimal. The workflow mirrors the questions/boxes on the IRS forms/instructions, a very helpful feature in my situation since I could easily cross-reference the relevant IRS publications when necessary. They provide excerpts from the documents as you go, which is all I needed in many instances. Unlike TurboTax, the prepared forms were actually correct (to the best of my knowledge, I am not a tax lawyer). Simple, cheap, reliable. Would and do recommend. EDIT: Story is related to last year, I plan to use them again this year.
  - DavidPeiffer 6y ago
    I also like their bookmark feature. I commonly realize I need a bit of information and can add a note about my questions I need to research more, or what form I'm waiting on. Once my bookmarks are clear, I know I'm good to submit.
- gshubert17 6y ago
  Another recommendation for FreeTaxUsa. Used it last year for filing and for an amended return. I am happy to pay the small cost (about $7) for unlimited support (didn't need any). Using it again this year.
- carabiner 6y ago
  How well does FreeTaxUSA work with investments and other complex tax situations? Can it parse PDFs or import data from brokerages in the same way?
  - quickthrowman 6y ago
    No, but it’s not hard to fill in the few boxes of information from the 1099-B. I have 1099-B, Section 1256 contracts, and regulated futures statements and they’re all easy to input.
- astura 6y ago
  >I will say their system is a bit clunky. Interesting, I use TaxHawk (parent company to FreeTaxUSA, same software) and I find their UI excellent.
- aorth 6y ago
  > I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. LOL I just tried to sign up and they rejected me because my personal email is on a .ch domain: The Email Address can't be a foreign email address ending with .ch. Wowwwwww.
  - simonh 6y ago
    And yet US citizens resident abroad still have to file US taxes, even if they are dual citizens and have never lived in the US.
    - mynameisvlad 6y ago
      But they have to file a 1040NR, which most of the tax software won't touch with a ten foot pole.
  - dastx 6y ago
    Certainly is a weird requirement. Could this possibly a governmental requirement? I certainly know governments have some silly requirements.
    - aorth 6y ago
      I contacted their support and they said it was for security purposes. Hah...
- AaronM 6y ago
  +1 for them. I live in one of the few states with no state tax, so its totally free to file. They do ask if you want to pay, its only if you want some audit protection, and live support.
- abstractbarista 6y ago
  They are great! Use them every year. TurboTax is a scam in comparison. Use code FREETAXUSA10 to get 10% off that already-cheap state filing (federal is free).
RIMR 6y ago
There are numerous detailed guides online, including by the IRS, illustrating how to do your own taxes. Unless your finances are extremely complicated, it's fairly easy to do it yourself.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
rndmize 6y ago
> And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. At least look into the options. Credit Karma Tax, FreeTaxUSA, 1040.com - there's a bunch of stuff out there made by companies that don't actively try to make the IRS less functional.
mywittyname 6y ago
Credit Karma is free. Works great, and has no discernable dark patterns. They even have import features from major payroll companies like ADP. I had to quit turbotax because one year I was a 1099 worker and every year since, it pushes me to go with their "small business edition." Each year it got harder to avoid "upgrading." Seriously, just do it. Quitting TT is so much easier than quitting anything else.
- kemitche 6y ago
  > Credit Karma is free. That just makes me wonder what Credit Karma is getting out of the deal.
  - minitoar 6y ago
    They tell you. Advertising dollars for financial products.
  - vmception 6y ago
    “wonder” The DOJ forced them to sell that whole unit if they wanted to be acquired because of the super obvious data mining consolidation
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - isoskeles 6y ago
    They use your data (income, financial situation (do you have a mortgage, etc.)) to determine what financial products (which credit cards, personal loans, mortgages, etc.) to offer you. This would all be in addition to what they knew about your credit score or anything else you input on the other parts of their platform. But as others pointed out, that part of CK got split off when Intuit bought them.
  - burkaman 6y ago
    It's extremely up-front, the home page is offers for credit cards and loans and such. It's also explained here: https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks In several years of using it, they've never emailed me advertising anything, and while they're obviously sharing my info with credit card companies and banks, I haven't gotten any marketing from them either. If you don't care about the recommendations, as I don't, you can use it for your taxes and never think about it the rest of the year.
asavadatti 6y ago
Unless your taxes are really simple I’d suggest hiring a professional to do it for you. It is money well spent
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I would hope anyone who made it through A US K-12 education would be able to do their own taxes if all they have is W-2. Even 1099/student loan interest deductions/etc is pretty easy. I would say it only gets really complicated once you venture into dealing with equity and AMT and stuff. It’s funny though that people will scour the web and clip coupons to save money, but they won’t research how their biggest expense (tax) is calculated.
  - em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
    Researching how taxes are calculated takes up valuable time and mental capacity, and you have to reeducate yourself every couple years on whatever new tweaks to the tax system happened.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Yes, and hopefully it would spur the political will to streamline it so that it doesn’t take up valuable time and mental capacity.
    - BeetleB 6y ago
      > Researching how taxes are calculated takes up valuable time and mental capacity So does deal finding and coupon clipping, which is what the parent was comparing to. If you have just a salary, no mortgage, and no stock/equity transactions, nothing has changed in 20 years, and it takes all of 10 minutes to fill the Federal form out (and I'm being generous). Every once in a while there is some extra credit, but it's usually prominently advertised. A simple hack is to look at the previous year's tax form and compare to see if anything has changed, and look up the guide related to those entries. If you do basic stock transactions (RSU, SPP, buy and sell), then it's a bit more pain, but still easy. Deductions are things one can easily miss, but even then, once you figure it out, you just have to keep an eye out for changes to deductions. The recent tax changes screwed it all up (although they also made taxes overall easier for those not in high COL states), but the usual deductions to watch out for are mortgage interest, state taxes, property taxes, and charitable donations. If you have other things going on (side business, etc), then I would suggest paying for a CPA. Worst case, just plug the numbers into TT and see if what you get is the same. If they imply you can get more, then pay someone to do it for you. I know people like to think it will take a lot of effort, but at least for my salary, if I count the hours it takes for me to do all this, it's always cheaper than paying a CPA.
afrojack123 6y ago
https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ That is the good site you want to use.
vmception 6y ago
> And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort That’s so cute how everyone is afraid of the IRS boogeyman Everyone believes whichever way they first became comfortable with is saving them money and their freedom I know people that would say the exact same thing except they are referring to their table full of printed out forms Literally everyone with a super wrong and very human CPA says “my CPA is really good they know what they’re doing I trust them” “I have a tax guy [I wont use independent thought]”
- steverb 6y ago
  Having lived through my parents being audited multiple times I am definitely afraid of the IRS boogey man. Merely dealing with an audit (even if everything you id was correct and above board) can be extremely stressful and time consuming. My parents also thought their CPA was really good an knew what they were doing. Turns out that even CPAs screw up sometimes. :-)
  - dcolkitt 6y ago
    I don't know how long ago this was, but in the past couple decades the likelihood of a regular Joe getting audited has plummeted. IRS enforcement has pretty much been gutted by Congress. For everyone but high earners, it all comes down to automated checks that run at file time. If you don't have any obvious flags (e.g. not reporting income that was on a W2), then the IRS doesn't have time for you.
    - andrewflnr 6y ago
      That's how it should be.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    I've dealt with the IRS. It was a major pain. Ridiculous pain. They were contesting some education credits some years after graduation. Showed proof of payments to the university, but they responded with "Well how do we know you were paying for education - you could have been paying for things like parking?" They kept saying "Send us this doc and you'll be good." We'd get the doc, send it to them, and they'd say it's not enough. Called the university. They said they'd never heard the IRS contest the form that universities provide (1098 or whatever it is). I had to beg them to find my actual bill for that year, so I could show them that what I paid match what was billed. Finally the IRS relented. Jokes on them, though. I found some unused deductions, amended my tax form, and got back an additional $400. Having said all that, I still do all my taxes myself. Neither Turbotax nor a CPA would have spared me this headache - they would have filed it exactly as I did - just slap on the form the university provides. My wife used to use a CPA in the past - relatively cheap ($150 for both federal and state). I found issues with his work - he didn't take as many deductions as he could. I amended and got back extra money. He also messed something up which the IRS (rightly) contested. We contacted the CPA so he could fix it and he went AWOL. We had to deal with it. If your financial situation doesn't change from year to year, I suggest paying a CPA once to do your taxes, figure out everything he/she did, and just do it yourself next year.
yardie 6y ago
I got snagged in one of their dark patterns. American living abroad, start with turbotax, include foreign bank information and schedule 2555. Get all the way to then end. "we see you're filing income from abroad. You will need to upgrade to TT Deluxe for $60" After that been using CreditKarmaTax; no shenanigans.
ptrklly 6y ago
I had this same experience, and switched to Credit Karma out of spite toward Turbo Tax. It was fine: https://www.creditkarma.com/tax https://www.creditkarma.com/tax
- temp0826 6y ago
  They’re both owned by intuit, fwiw
jsmith45 6y ago
The fact that Turbo tax has at least 2 totally different free products, only one of which is part of FreeFile[1], and the other of which has a whole slew of exclusion criteria, mainly tied to which tax forms you will need to file is completely absurd. The IRS should really tell the FFA members that their advertised free product must be the same as or a superset of their FreeFile offering.
Mountain_Skies 6y ago
I ran into that this year. After declining all of the mid return attempts to get me to upgrade to the paid service, when I got to the very end it told me that since I had purchased health insurance on the government marketplace for part of the year that I'd have to pay extra for that form. I went with Credit Karma instead. Turns out that my taxes weren't affected at all by my health insurance situation. Between the cost of the Deluxe version and now being required to pay for state filing, they wanted $67. I know they think these "free" offerings are a way to dissuade Congress from having the IRS offer tax filing directly but these games aren't helping their cause any. Credit Karma was free for filing both state and federal though they did make two attempts to get me to install Cash App, both of which I declined.

DavidPeiffer 6y ago

>And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the cost. I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. Federal is always free, and state taxes are ~12/state. I don't have anything obscure about my taxes, and their forms indicate they can handle much more complicated situations than I have. I've used them for 3 years now, with no issues. I will say their system is a bit clunky. I feel like I get in loops sometimes where I go through already filled in information and wish I could just jump to the next section. I wish they would give me more questions on each page so I can better understand how a response to one question filters through down the line.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Why not use the official IRS free file forms?
- judge2020 6y ago
  Based on this site[0], it looks like you have to use a 'partner' to file the forms if you make under $72,000 a year, is that right? 0: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
  - patentatt 6y ago
    The IRS site gives that impression, but I believe that's not the case. There is "IRS Free File" which is income limited as you mention, but there is also "Free File Fillable Forms" which appears to not be income limited. Intentionally misleading if you ask me.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Yes, and I presume it’s because some corrupt legislators are twisting the IRS’ arm on behalf of Intuit.
  - LocalH 6y ago
    I don’t feel like that’s required, more like if you make over $72,000 that you’re required to file the forms yourself
  - jandrese 6y ago
    The wording is confusing (I think this is an IRS requirement having read the documentation for many years now) but what it is saying is that if you make under $72,000/year there are a ton of free options available. If you make more than $72,000 this is supposedly the only free e-file option available. The whole thing is a mess because TurboTax and H&R Block and the like want to stay in business. If the process is too easy then the middlemen won't survive.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  I find it more approachable to use the question/answer format compared to reading all of the instructions on detail, determining if that particular section applies to me, and wondering if I found every form to cover every situation from the last year. An example is figuring out whether I would owe taxes on the gain from the sale of a primary residence I owned for less than 2 years. Figuring that out manually took some googling, finding an IRS guide, reading multiple pages of regulations along with exceptions and determining where I stood. Another is determining HSA contribution limits when my wife and I were in individual HDHP plans part of the year, and a family plan the remainder.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    If your tax situation doesn't change from year to year you don't need to scour the instructions. Just work through the forms using last year's return as a guide.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      Except things change from year to year so even if YOU don't change, the underlying tax laws move over time.
      - JadeNB 6y ago
        And there have been a lot of tax changes recently. Although my personal situation didn't change significantly, the filing experience changed more during the past administration than in the 10 years I'd been filing taxes before that, even though those previous 10 years included multiple moves and changes of jobs, and the purchase of a house.
    - astura 6y ago
      They changed form 1040 drastically a year or two ago. Plus tax law changes from year to year.
      - jxramos 6y ago
- JadeNB 6y ago
  Does the IRS allow direct e-filing? At least as of last year, it seemed that you still had to go through someone else to file electronically (although the forms are freely available).
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Yes, I’ve been using IRS free fillable forms for over 10 years, I think, with no middleman between me and the IRS. Similar with my state taxes on my state’s revenue website.
    - JadeNB 6y ago
      Sorry, so, just to be clear: you've been filing your forms electronically with the IRS, not printing out the filled forms and mailing them? How? I swear I've looked, and been unable to find a way to file electronically (although I agree it's easy to find the form), except if you fall into certain income categories. I've even been told that it's intentionally legally impossible, as a way for the IRS to avoid competing with private providers. (State taxes are a different matter; I've paid Illinois and Michigan taxes recently, and they do provide an easy and obvious way to e-file directly with the state.)
      - jsmith45 6y ago
        https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ is the site. It is technically not an IRS service, but one provided by the free file alliance as part of the IRS agreement not to build their own software. There are no income exclusions or anything. It is possible you will be unable to use it if you have to use some really obscure forms, but it does have all the forms that paid Turbo Tax can file for you. You also might not be able to use it if you have one of those weird tax situations where the IRS instructs you to write a message across the top of your 1040.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Yes, I use the link here: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... It’s all electronic. You get an email confirmation.
- vlunkr 6y ago
  As another freetaxusa user, I would rather pay a very small fee to have the tool walk me through the process than try to figure it out myself.
- dizzant 6y ago
  I tried Free File Fillable Forms last year on principal, but I ran into issues in two areas: 1. reporting scholarship income (goes on the line beside box 1 and nowhere else), and 2. state taxes are not supported, and my state does not have an equivalent service.
  - jxramos 6y ago
    It's really frustrating that states have not adopted an equivalent service. I actually filed paper forms for mine because their free service is a simplified approximation of the full form and leaves out certain workflows that limit its scope of complexity.
- carabiner 6y ago
  I did in college. If your tax situation is nontrival it can take a very long time and has lots of room for error. I made a mistake and owed a $200 penalty for it back then. Software walks you through it and automates all of the arithmetic, number copying, and prevents fat finger errors.
- astura 6y ago
  When my tax situation was very simple I was happy to do my taxes on paper, often using form 1040-EZ, which only took about 10 minutes. Now that they are complicated (lots of different 1099s and business income) I very much prefer to use software to guide me questions and answers style.
abaga129 6y ago
I'm using freetaxusa.com for the first time this year. I got fed up with TurboTax after being hit with a similar anti-pattern as the ones described above. Got almost to the end and was told I had to pay $80 to file. This was after spending hours on my taxes because there are some things that can't simply be updated.. no you have to completely start the process over from the beginning. This felt intentional so that I would just accept the cost to be done with it. After learning about how TurboTax lobbies to make filing more difficult, I swore I would not use them any longer. I also take everything opportunity to let people know about TurboTax's lobbying. So far freetaxusa.com seems better than TurboTax IMO. It's cleaner and to the point. No unnecessary animations or any of that nonsense.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  Every year I internally gripe about the UI improvements I'd prefer, but fully recognize it is better than TurboTax, and is approachable to people with a wide range of computer literacy.
cycomanic 6y ago
Here in Sweden I go to the tax office website, log in, have a brief look at that all my salary has been correctly entered (I have yet to encounter that it hasn't) add if I possibly want to deduct some extra things (also very uncomplicated), go to file and click send (the whole thing can even be done on mobile) . The process typically takes 20min max, Australia was quite similar. I'm always amazed by tax systems which seem to be so complicated that you almost always need an accountant (I know my parents in Germany always had one, even though their job did not imply more complex taxes than mine)
- ivalm 6y ago
  If all your taxes are just wages then you just fill out a two page form (1040). Literally just copy a couple of numbers from your w2 and you’re good. The problem is if you have non-salary sources of income (eg stock, non-employee compensation, etc) then things can rapidly become very complicated.
  - criddell 6y ago
    You're right, but I think cycomanic has a point. Why do you even have to fill out the 1040? Why isn't there a default option where you can review tax forms that have already been filled out with the the information the IRS has already received?
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      That has been proposed. But has been shot down by powerful lobbying groups. One being the tax prep software companies, but another being a conservative group that objects to making paying tax easier because then it will become too easy for the government to just keep raising taxes. The idea is that if you have to file your taxes every year, you have to acknowledge how much you are paying.
- spullara 6y ago
  If your taxes are easy in Sweden / Australia they would be easy in the US.
dizzant 6y ago
Let me add my recommendation for FreeTaxUSA.com. I am a newly married grad student on fellowship, which implies juggling estimated taxes, confusing withholding rules, scholarship income, a name change, and first-time joint filing. Needless to say, I am not a "simple" case. After TurboTax failed to prepare my forms correctly (!) and wanted to charge me for the displeasure, I went looking for an alternative. FreeTaxUSA.com is where I landed. The interface is fairly minimal. The workflow mirrors the questions/boxes on the IRS forms/instructions, a very helpful feature in my situation since I could easily cross-reference the relevant IRS publications when necessary. They provide excerpts from the documents as you go, which is all I needed in many instances. Unlike TurboTax, the prepared forms were actually correct (to the best of my knowledge, I am not a tax lawyer). Simple, cheap, reliable. Would and do recommend. EDIT: Story is related to last year, I plan to use them again this year.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  I also like their bookmark feature. I commonly realize I need a bit of information and can add a note about my questions I need to research more, or what form I'm waiting on. Once my bookmarks are clear, I know I'm good to submit.
gshubert17 6y ago
Another recommendation for FreeTaxUsa. Used it last year for filing and for an amended return. I am happy to pay the small cost (about $7) for unlimited support (didn't need any). Using it again this year.
carabiner 6y ago
How well does FreeTaxUSA work with investments and other complex tax situations? Can it parse PDFs or import data from brokerages in the same way?
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  No, but it’s not hard to fill in the few boxes of information from the 1099-B. I have 1099-B, Section 1256 contracts, and regulated futures statements and they’re all easy to input.
astura 6y ago
>I will say their system is a bit clunky. Interesting, I use TaxHawk (parent company to FreeTaxUSA, same software) and I find their UI excellent.
aorth 6y ago
> I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. LOL I just tried to sign up and they rejected me because my personal email is on a .ch domain: The Email Address can't be a foreign email address ending with .ch. Wowwwwww.
- simonh 6y ago
  And yet US citizens resident abroad still have to file US taxes, even if they are dual citizens and have never lived in the US.
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    But they have to file a 1040NR, which most of the tax software won't touch with a ten foot pole.
- dastx 6y ago
  Certainly is a weird requirement. Could this possibly a governmental requirement? I certainly know governments have some silly requirements.
  - aorth 6y ago
    I contacted their support and they said it was for security purposes. Hah...
AaronM 6y ago
+1 for them. I live in one of the few states with no state tax, so its totally free to file. They do ask if you want to pay, its only if you want some audit protection, and live support.
abstractbarista 6y ago
They are great! Use them every year. TurboTax is a scam in comparison. Use code FREETAXUSA10 to get 10% off that already-cheap state filing (federal is free).

RIMR 6y ago

There are numerous detailed guides online, including by the IRS, illustrating how to do your own taxes. Unless your finances are extremely complicated, it's fairly easy to do it yourself.

deleted 6y ago
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rndmize 6y ago

> And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. At least look into the options. Credit Karma Tax, FreeTaxUSA, 1040.com - there's a bunch of stuff out there made by companies that don't actively try to make the IRS less functional.

mywittyname 6y ago

Credit Karma is free. Works great, and has no discernable dark patterns. They even have import features from major payroll companies like ADP. I had to quit turbotax because one year I was a 1099 worker and every year since, it pushes me to go with their "small business edition." Each year it got harder to avoid "upgrading." Seriously, just do it. Quitting TT is so much easier than quitting anything else.

kemitche 6y ago
> Credit Karma is free. That just makes me wonder what Credit Karma is getting out of the deal.
- minitoar 6y ago
  They tell you. Advertising dollars for financial products.
- vmception 6y ago
  “wonder” The DOJ forced them to sell that whole unit if they wanted to be acquired because of the super obvious data mining consolidation
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- isoskeles 6y ago
  They use your data (income, financial situation (do you have a mortgage, etc.)) to determine what financial products (which credit cards, personal loans, mortgages, etc.) to offer you. This would all be in addition to what they knew about your credit score or anything else you input on the other parts of their platform. But as others pointed out, that part of CK got split off when Intuit bought them.
- burkaman 6y ago
  It's extremely up-front, the home page is offers for credit cards and loans and such. It's also explained here: https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks In several years of using it, they've never emailed me advertising anything, and while they're obviously sharing my info with credit card companies and banks, I haven't gotten any marketing from them either. If you don't care about the recommendations, as I don't, you can use it for your taxes and never think about it the rest of the year.

asavadatti 6y ago

Unless your taxes are really simple I’d suggest hiring a professional to do it for you. It is money well spent

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I would hope anyone who made it through A US K-12 education would be able to do their own taxes if all they have is W-2. Even 1099/student loan interest deductions/etc is pretty easy. I would say it only gets really complicated once you venture into dealing with equity and AMT and stuff. It’s funny though that people will scour the web and clip coupons to save money, but they won’t research how their biggest expense (tax) is calculated.
- em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
  Researching how taxes are calculated takes up valuable time and mental capacity, and you have to reeducate yourself every couple years on whatever new tweaks to the tax system happened.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Yes, and hopefully it would spur the political will to streamline it so that it doesn’t take up valuable time and mental capacity.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    > Researching how taxes are calculated takes up valuable time and mental capacity So does deal finding and coupon clipping, which is what the parent was comparing to. If you have just a salary, no mortgage, and no stock/equity transactions, nothing has changed in 20 years, and it takes all of 10 minutes to fill the Federal form out (and I'm being generous). Every once in a while there is some extra credit, but it's usually prominently advertised. A simple hack is to look at the previous year's tax form and compare to see if anything has changed, and look up the guide related to those entries. If you do basic stock transactions (RSU, SPP, buy and sell), then it's a bit more pain, but still easy. Deductions are things one can easily miss, but even then, once you figure it out, you just have to keep an eye out for changes to deductions. The recent tax changes screwed it all up (although they also made taxes overall easier for those not in high COL states), but the usual deductions to watch out for are mortgage interest, state taxes, property taxes, and charitable donations. If you have other things going on (side business, etc), then I would suggest paying for a CPA. Worst case, just plug the numbers into TT and see if what you get is the same. If they imply you can get more, then pay someone to do it for you. I know people like to think it will take a lot of effort, but at least for my salary, if I count the hours it takes for me to do all this, it's always cheaper than paying a CPA.

afrojack123 6y ago

https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ That is the good site you want to use.

vmception 6y ago

> And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort That’s so cute how everyone is afraid of the IRS boogeyman Everyone believes whichever way they first became comfortable with is saving them money and their freedom I know people that would say the exact same thing except they are referring to their table full of printed out forms Literally everyone with a super wrong and very human CPA says “my CPA is really good they know what they’re doing I trust them” “I have a tax guy [I wont use independent thought]”

steverb 6y ago
Having lived through my parents being audited multiple times I am definitely afraid of the IRS boogey man. Merely dealing with an audit (even if everything you id was correct and above board) can be extremely stressful and time consuming. My parents also thought their CPA was really good an knew what they were doing. Turns out that even CPAs screw up sometimes. :-)
- dcolkitt 6y ago
  I don't know how long ago this was, but in the past couple decades the likelihood of a regular Joe getting audited has plummeted. IRS enforcement has pretty much been gutted by Congress. For everyone but high earners, it all comes down to automated checks that run at file time. If you don't have any obvious flags (e.g. not reporting income that was on a W2), then the IRS doesn't have time for you.
  - andrewflnr 6y ago
    That's how it should be.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  I've dealt with the IRS. It was a major pain. Ridiculous pain. They were contesting some education credits some years after graduation. Showed proof of payments to the university, but they responded with "Well how do we know you were paying for education - you could have been paying for things like parking?" They kept saying "Send us this doc and you'll be good." We'd get the doc, send it to them, and they'd say it's not enough. Called the university. They said they'd never heard the IRS contest the form that universities provide (1098 or whatever it is). I had to beg them to find my actual bill for that year, so I could show them that what I paid match what was billed. Finally the IRS relented. Jokes on them, though. I found some unused deductions, amended my tax form, and got back an additional $400. Having said all that, I still do all my taxes myself. Neither Turbotax nor a CPA would have spared me this headache - they would have filed it exactly as I did - just slap on the form the university provides. My wife used to use a CPA in the past - relatively cheap ($150 for both federal and state). I found issues with his work - he didn't take as many deductions as he could. I amended and got back extra money. He also messed something up which the IRS (rightly) contested. We contacted the CPA so he could fix it and he went AWOL. We had to deal with it. If your financial situation doesn't change from year to year, I suggest paying a CPA once to do your taxes, figure out everything he/she did, and just do it yourself next year.

yardie 6y ago

I got snagged in one of their dark patterns. American living abroad, start with turbotax, include foreign bank information and schedule 2555. Get all the way to then end. "we see you're filing income from abroad. You will need to upgrade to TT Deluxe for $60" After that been using CreditKarmaTax; no shenanigans.

ptrklly 6y ago

I had this same experience, and switched to Credit Karma out of spite toward Turbo Tax. It was fine: https://www.creditkarma.com/tax https://www.creditkarma.com/tax

temp0826 6y ago
They’re both owned by intuit, fwiw

jsmith45 6y ago

The fact that Turbo tax has at least 2 totally different free products, only one of which is part of FreeFile[1], and the other of which has a whole slew of exclusion criteria, mainly tied to which tax forms you will need to file is completely absurd. The IRS should really tell the FFA members that their advertised free product must be the same as or a superset of their FreeFile offering.

Mountain_Skies 6y ago

I ran into that this year. After declining all of the mid return attempts to get me to upgrade to the paid service, when I got to the very end it told me that since I had purchased health insurance on the government marketplace for part of the year that I'd have to pay extra for that form. I went with Credit Karma instead. Turns out that my taxes weren't affected at all by my health insurance situation. Between the cost of the Deluxe version and now being required to pay for state filing, they wanted $67. I know they think these "free" offerings are a way to dissuade Congress from having the IRS offer tax filing directly but these games aren't helping their cause any. Credit Karma was free for filing both state and federal though they did make two attempts to get me to install Cash App, both of which I declined.