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I hope then you can face the desperate residents who don't have the luxury of having a cushy data collection yuppie job like most of us here do then for missing
by dimitrios1 6y ago
I hope then you can face the desperate residents who don't have the luxury of having a cushy data collection yuppie job like most of us here do then for missing out on a decent wage like and tell them "no it was for your own good, trust me!"
- stjohnswarts 6y agoNo it sets a terrible precedent. Businesses need to support their community. I would willing to bet that the city council will not let it happen. They may cut a deal but it ain't gonna be 100%. More like on the order of 10-25% like other companies get. Corporations are too greedy. I contract for a living and through local contacts never go more than a month between contracts. The job market here is still pretty great for people who have solid backend/embedded skills, in general it's solid for most people. Those other people can go work for the other big guys or the new Tesla plant who actually cut a reasonable tax deal.
- f430 6y agodoesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen backend devs
- numbsafari 6y agoWhy should labor pay for all the externalities created by capital?
- f430 6y agoDid you not read the title? It's $17 billion dollar investment creating thousands of high paying jobs which in turn will create more jobs and create more capital in community. Why are you so against this? This isn't some VC backed zombie healthcare software company hiring a couple of developers per year and not getting to pay taxes. This is a major corporation investing billions with profound impact on the community.
- bildung 6y ago> Why are you so against this? Why should the people of Austin, Texas gift millions of dollars to a company that made a profit of over $8 billions in the last quarter alone?
- adriancr 6y agoI've seen places refuse to budge and lose out the investments I've also seen Intel refuse to negotiate price for chips with Apple for the original iPhone and look how great that turned out for them and TSMC
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoSometimes youve gotta show backbone. "I'be seen people refuse to give their boss a blowjob and lose out on promotions"
- imtringued 6y agoThe number of cities losing out does not change. If there are X competing cities X-1 cities will always lose out.
- hardolaf 6y agoThis is a company asking a city, that will see no income taxes from the at most 2,000 employees, permission to pay zero taxes at all to the city in exchange for the honor of housing a future EPA Super Fund site. Sure, the city will get some sales tax revenue from the 2,000 who will almost assuredly live outside of the city. So they'll get what, 6.25% of a $10 lunch from maybe 30% of workers per day? So they'll expect about $100k/yr in tax revenue in exchange for more road utilization and a future EPA Super Fund site. That doesn't seem like a good deal for the city. And that's assuming 100% of the sales tax goes to the city which it doesn't. Most of that goes to the county and state.
- adriancr 6y agoWhy no income taxes on the employees?, they are part of the community, why arent they paying in? How does the city even fund itself then?
- kristianp 6y agoIt's an interesting question: incentives. Samsung can't negotiate away wages like they can land taxes.
- barbacoa 6y agoLook at it from the local government prospective, they could get 0 in tax income or they can settle from the tax income of thousands of new high income jobs.
- didibus 6y agoDo gigafab manufactures like that really create high income jobs? I assumed it was mostly low income close to minimum wage kind of thing. On a similar tangeant, how are these able to compete with similar manufacturing done in Asia or Africa?
- valvar 6y agoI don't know anything about how they are run, but I would assume you need a large number of on-site engineers and process overseers. What are the low-income jobs? Security?
- didibus 6y agoI thought it was mostly assembly line workers putting parts together, with machines doing the rest. Kinda like what this photo shows: https://bit.ly/3a8uRFM https://bit.ly/3a8uRFM
- sgerenser 6y agoThat’s board assembly, not chip fabrication.
- f430 6y agoSo you admit you were ignorant. That's a rarity on here. People will defend their wrong views here because they don't want to hear they aren't a polymath.
- adriancr 6y agoThis is how it looks like now: https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/TSMC-Semiconductor.jpg https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/TSMC-... Machines feed each other via conveyor belts, everything automated, tight control loops check/move things around. Notice the difference in human presence.
- syshum 6y agoThe precedent was set long ago, and if Austin does not take it I can assure you some other city will.. Why, it is easy... a new factory (or a factory expansion) means more jobs, more jobs means more people, more people means more Home and more secondary businesses all of which the local government will get taxes from. In principle I agree, but in reality Austin will make more tax revenue from these other properties and business than the amount of the abatement
- chkaloon 6y agoSource? Just like this comment in the story - " Nonetheless, the deal still makes a lot of sense for the state". Numbers, please?
- tooltalk 6y agoSamsung has been around Austin, TX since the late 1990's and invested well over $15B. I think the state and county officials have enough dataset to evaluate whether Samsung's new expansion would benefit their community or not.
- ethbr0 6y agoIn this case, it seems like a viable investment by the state. We're talking about a leading node fab, not a nebulous "LCD manufacturing center." That's a bit harder to vaporware, and more importantly, why would you?
- notional 6y agoThat worked out great for Wisconsin residents recently
- dimitrios1 6y agoFor every one deal that went sour, there are hundreds of successes. Additionally, comparing a rushed Foxconn plant to a Samsung fab facility, in an area where Samsung already has roots, is dishonest to say the least.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoSource? How does one even begin to measure the opportunity costs of pitting politicians with short term incentives against each other? Many of the supposed benefits aren’t even able to be calculated.
- dimitrios1 6y agoThe source is the hundreds of large corporations that have came to a remote location away the already larger and established metro areas with international airports nearby, so your usual suspects of LA, SF, NYC and ATL. There almost always is some incentive package to attract the businesses. My city, Charlotte, has 10 examples alone. Neighboring Charleston and Columbia in SC have quite a few examples of theirs, namely in Aerospace and Auto Manufacturing.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoHow can one figure out if they would not have come anyway due to lower wages/land prices?
- hardolaf 6y agoWhat benefits? Every fab becomes an ecological disaster over time. They should be assessed penalty rates not given discount rates to cover the future cost of cleanup.
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- greesil 6y agoI'd like to sell you a car, since you're not the negotiating type.
- presentation 6y agoIt’s a prisoners dilemma situation - cities would be better off if across the board they just applied the rules evenly, but there’s always a place that’s willing to sacrifice that for its own benefit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoIts not just residents, its a complete violation of free market. How are startups and family businesses meant to compete when the megacorps get special deals, pay no taxes and get bailouts? This is how you get monopolies and oligopolies.
- sgarland 6y agoI worked at SAS a couple of years ago. The majority of jobs they will be offering are contractor positions with no benefits, and pay that in no way compensates for the crazy schedules they run. Starting pay was about $18/hr in 2018. They aim for ~2/3 of their technicians being contracted positions. A tech might work there for YEARS before a conversion spot finally opens up. It's an absolute travesty and should not be allowed, IMO. Why should a company be allowed to have people doing the exact same jobs but only offering benefits to a select few?