14 ms·

I see a lot of people in this thread who don't really know much about Samsung's semiconductor presence in the USA. This expansion has been in the works for year

I see a lot of people in this thread who don't really know much about Samsung's semiconductor presence in the USA. This expansion has been in the works for years. Samsung has a 100k wafer per month fab in austin texas. They are negotiating for tax abatements for expansion and using alternative sites as leverage. They are not building a new fab they are expanding their S2 fab in austin texas. There was a permit application that was released a few years back that shows the true scale of their expansion plans. https://www.swf.usace.army.mil/Portals/47/docs/regulatory/publicnotices/2014/PN_SWF-2014-00170.pdf https://www.swf.usace.army.mil/Portals/47/docs/regulatory/pu... If this goes through it could made Samsung's S2 fab larger than even TSMC's monster gigafabs.

pwdisswordfish0 6y ago
If anyone has seen the Austin S2 campus before, you'd know that it has a massive blacktop to provide parking for its thousands of personnel. It would be nice if as part of the conditions for application approval, Samsung were asked to commit to erect awnings for solar collectors integrated into covered parking and strongly encouraged to invest in making solar more cost effective.
- barbacoa 6y ago
  As a side note. SAS recently bought 100s of acres around their property probably to expand parking.
  - renerthr 6y ago
    Sorry for the ignorance, but what's SAS? DDGing that word might not get the appropriate result.
    - fnord77 6y ago
      assuming SAS software, an analytics software company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute
      - renerthr 6y ago
        Thank you! It says it's the largest privately held software business. Why is it that it doesn't go public?
        hulahoof 6y ago
        Why go public if you already have money?
        Spare_account 6y ago
        Why _should_ they go public?
      - Reason077 6y ago
        I once visited the SAS campus in North Carolina, when I was working for another well-known North Carolina headquartered software company. Very nice place. Made me quite jealous.
    - barbacoa 6y ago
      Samsung austin semiconductor (the name of the fab)
- KirillPanov 6y ago
  and a pony too.
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    Free range chicken farm, dammit!
- ericmay 6y ago
  Idk why I see downvotes here for a legit comment and concern. Parking lots are absolutely awful. First, cars. Enough said. Second, they take up a lot of space with low utilization. Third, heat.
  - KirillPanov 6y ago
    > Idk why I see downvotes here discussion derailment turning every thread into a debate about your pet sociopolitical issue is unhelpful.
  - mandis 6y ago
    >First, cars. Enough said. No not really. Cars are wonderful, not everyone who lives on this planet wants to share space with strangers.
    - nine_k 6y ago
      Cars are wonderful and useful when moving, less so, when stationary. Allowing a second way to use the area taken by the cars is reasonable — a car parking does not need access to the sky, until we have the fabled flying cars.
    - kbenson 6y ago
      Nobody said cars have no benefits. But they do have very real drawbacks that are obvious at this point, they just aren't borne by the owner exclusively. Cars as the exist today for the most part are the best method we have for increasing mobility and economic independence for those that don't live near or can't leverage public transportation (and sometimes in those cases too). They are still objectively awful in many other aspects though.
    - km3r 6y ago
      Not everyone wants to pay taxes either, but sometimes sacrifices will need to be made so that we don't ruin this planet. Sure having personal space and full autonomy in movement is nice, but it may have to be realized in different ways as we start to see the damage we are doing to this planet.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  If the long-term return from solar cells were higher than the cost involved, Samsung would do it themselves. Since they don't do it, that means it is not efficient enough. So why force them?
  - ghouse 6y ago
    There are plenty of requirements in Conditional Use Permits that force entities to do things they wouldn't otherwise do themselves. These are generally to mitigate the negative impacts on others. For example, onsite stormwater retention and traffic mitigation. > Since they don't do it, that means it is not efficient enough. This assumes perfect market efficiency -- that everyone has perfect information and is perfectly rational. In my experience, that isn't the case. Additionally, Samsung is asking for a 25 year property tax waiver. It's a negotiation.
    - perryizgr8 6y ago
      > There are plenty of requirements in Conditional Use Permits that force entities to do things they wouldn't otherwise do themselves. Ah, let's remove those requirements. > For example, onsite stormwater retention and traffic mitigation. Why do you think "entities" would not do these things without being forced? Do these "entities" not benefit from better traffic and managed stormwater? > This assumes perfect market efficiency -- that everyone has perfect information and is perfectly rational. In my experience, that isn't the case. OK, then let's fix that. > Additionally, Samsung is asking for a 25 year property tax waiver. It's a negotiation. No, it's not a negotiation. Negotiation can occur between similarly empowered entities. There is no negotiation when one side has the power to lock the other up at gunpoint.
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        "Why do you think "entities" would not do these things without being forced? Do these "entities" not benefit from better traffic and managed stormwater?" Before you advocate muh free market, read about history of urban panning - we tried it, most houses didn't even have sewers. I don't want poop on the streets. More recently in UK over 100 people burned to death because a massive skyscraper was built with violations of fire safety, and then plasteres with more flamable material. Do these entities not benefit from not having the building they manage burn to the ground?
- elipsey 6y ago
  the urban heat island is real, and austin is hot enough already, so thanks for the very humane suggestion! the screen on my phone used to turn black if i forgot it in my car at work. sometimes i left frozen tamales on my dashboard and came back for them at lunchtime. in my student coop, i once looked up from my studies to see that my clock/thermometer said it was 110F on my desk. so yeah, if you're going to cut down all the shade, can a bro at least get some awnings?
  - samstave 6y ago
    I have only been to Austin once to consult on an OpenStack install - Cray was in the same building as my client... But when I was packing for the trip - I was like "I am going to texas - so I don't need a jacket and only packed short sleeve shirts and brought a pair of shorts! When I arrived in Austin, IT WAS FUCKING SNOWING I was so damn cold.
    - throwawaygimp 6y ago
      Me too! I got stuck there because taxis weren't running to the airport due to snow. Had a rad time... everything was covered in snow, not a car on the road. Apparently the locals hadn't seen anything like it, so maybe a freak one. This was late 2000's, can't remember exactly when
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
        We had a good snow last month - about 6 inches. But yes that kind of thing is so exceedingly rare (about once every 10 years) that the entire city economy basically grinds to a halt so everyone can go outside and play in the snow. The last time that happened was probably the incident you are describing.
- Reason077 6y ago
  Such vast, paved, surface-level parking lots are a distinctively American thing. In Europe, for example, you’re much more likely to find covered, multi-level parking structures once a parking lot exceeds a given size.
  - chrisrogers 6y ago
    If Europe had the space that exists in and around Austin, they would do the same thing. It's simply far less expensive to build surface lots.
    - ovi256 6y ago
      Yes, this is commonly done in areas where land is cheap, I'm thinking of rural train station parking lots, regional and small airport parking lots.
    - namdnay 6y ago
      Exactly. It’s not like you see massive flat lots in Manhattan
      - sampo 6y ago
        There is this fairly efficient 10-level parking garage in Philadelphia, Arch Street. It is essentially two 10-floor towers connected at the top. They saved room by making driveways one-way. So you enter, you have to drive 10 floors up, drive across the roof, and then drive 10 floors down to the exit. You can park wherever along the way, but you always end up driving all the way up and down.
        namrog84 6y ago
        That sounds terrible. I feel like I'd get nausea or dizzy. Thats essentially driving in a circle 20 times. Itd be okay if there were 2 mid level cross connections
        6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 6y ago
They are trying to strong arm the locals into basically saying they (Samsung) pays zero property taxes to the next 25 years. https://www.statesman.com/story/business/2021/02/04/samsung-austin-expansion-chip-plant-seeks-1-billion-taxpayer-incentives/4309503001/ https://www.statesman.com/story/business/2021/02/04/samsung-... . I hope Austin passes on it if Samsung can't do any better than that.
- dimitrios1 6y ago
  I hope then you can face the desperate residents who don't have the luxury of having a cushy data collection yuppie job like most of us here do then for missing out on a decent wage like and tell them "no it was for your own good, trust me!"
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    No it sets a terrible precedent. Businesses need to support their community. I would willing to bet that the city council will not let it happen. They may cut a deal but it ain't gonna be 100%. More like on the order of 10-25% like other companies get. Corporations are too greedy. I contract for a living and through local contacts never go more than a month between contracts. The job market here is still pretty great for people who have solid backend/embedded skills, in general it's solid for most people. Those other people can go work for the other big guys or the new Tesla plant who actually cut a reasonable tax deal.
    - f430 6y ago
      doesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen backend devs
      - numbsafari 6y ago
        Why should labor pay for all the externalities created by capital?
cscurmudgeon 6y ago
One of my favorite things to do when I am depressed due to negativity is to read Hacker News comments when Dropbox launched and the NYTimes story on space flight being impossible. I am going to add this submission to that list.
simonh 6y ago
That fab in Texas was the one used to manufacture the early Apple A-series processors. The media and most pundits generally assumed they were made in South Korea, because Samsung.
tooltalk 6y ago
It's kind of odd that Anandtech seems to make a lot of fuss about Samsung's tax break whereas Anandtech's recent article on TSMC's Arizon plant mentions virtually none of the same tax break highlighted for Samsung there. Is Apple still hiring away Anandtech's key editors? https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-arizona-for-2024 https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-a...
- IanCutress 6y ago
  Comparing an article by a different author from a year ago. gg

pwdisswordfish0 6y ago

If anyone has seen the Austin S2 campus before, you'd know that it has a massive blacktop to provide parking for its thousands of personnel. It would be nice if as part of the conditions for application approval, Samsung were asked to commit to erect awnings for solar collectors integrated into covered parking and strongly encouraged to invest in making solar more cost effective.

barbacoa 6y ago
As a side note. SAS recently bought 100s of acres around their property probably to expand parking.
- renerthr 6y ago
  Sorry for the ignorance, but what's SAS? DDGing that word might not get the appropriate result.
  - fnord77 6y ago
    assuming SAS software, an analytics software company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute
    - renerthr 6y ago
      Thank you! It says it's the largest privately held software business. Why is it that it doesn't go public?
      - hulahoof 6y ago
        Why go public if you already have money?
      - Spare_account 6y ago
        Why _should_ they go public?
    - Reason077 6y ago
      I once visited the SAS campus in North Carolina, when I was working for another well-known North Carolina headquartered software company. Very nice place. Made me quite jealous.
  - barbacoa 6y ago
    Samsung austin semiconductor (the name of the fab)
KirillPanov 6y ago
and a pony too.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  Free range chicken farm, dammit!
ericmay 6y ago
Idk why I see downvotes here for a legit comment and concern. Parking lots are absolutely awful. First, cars. Enough said. Second, they take up a lot of space with low utilization. Third, heat.
- KirillPanov 6y ago
  > Idk why I see downvotes here discussion derailment turning every thread into a debate about your pet sociopolitical issue is unhelpful.
- mandis 6y ago
  >First, cars. Enough said. No not really. Cars are wonderful, not everyone who lives on this planet wants to share space with strangers.
  - nine_k 6y ago
    Cars are wonderful and useful when moving, less so, when stationary. Allowing a second way to use the area taken by the cars is reasonable — a car parking does not need access to the sky, until we have the fabled flying cars.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    Nobody said cars have no benefits. But they do have very real drawbacks that are obvious at this point, they just aren't borne by the owner exclusively. Cars as the exist today for the most part are the best method we have for increasing mobility and economic independence for those that don't live near or can't leverage public transportation (and sometimes in those cases too). They are still objectively awful in many other aspects though.
  - km3r 6y ago
    Not everyone wants to pay taxes either, but sometimes sacrifices will need to be made so that we don't ruin this planet. Sure having personal space and full autonomy in movement is nice, but it may have to be realized in different ways as we start to see the damage we are doing to this planet.
perryizgr8 6y ago
If the long-term return from solar cells were higher than the cost involved, Samsung would do it themselves. Since they don't do it, that means it is not efficient enough. So why force them?
- ghouse 6y ago
  There are plenty of requirements in Conditional Use Permits that force entities to do things they wouldn't otherwise do themselves. These are generally to mitigate the negative impacts on others. For example, onsite stormwater retention and traffic mitigation. > Since they don't do it, that means it is not efficient enough. This assumes perfect market efficiency -- that everyone has perfect information and is perfectly rational. In my experience, that isn't the case. Additionally, Samsung is asking for a 25 year property tax waiver. It's a negotiation.
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    > There are plenty of requirements in Conditional Use Permits that force entities to do things they wouldn't otherwise do themselves. Ah, let's remove those requirements. > For example, onsite stormwater retention and traffic mitigation. Why do you think "entities" would not do these things without being forced? Do these "entities" not benefit from better traffic and managed stormwater? > This assumes perfect market efficiency -- that everyone has perfect information and is perfectly rational. In my experience, that isn't the case. OK, then let's fix that. > Additionally, Samsung is asking for a 25 year property tax waiver. It's a negotiation. No, it's not a negotiation. Negotiation can occur between similarly empowered entities. There is no negotiation when one side has the power to lock the other up at gunpoint.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      "Why do you think "entities" would not do these things without being forced? Do these "entities" not benefit from better traffic and managed stormwater?" Before you advocate muh free market, read about history of urban panning - we tried it, most houses didn't even have sewers. I don't want poop on the streets. More recently in UK over 100 people burned to death because a massive skyscraper was built with violations of fire safety, and then plasteres with more flamable material. Do these entities not benefit from not having the building they manage burn to the ground?
elipsey 6y ago
the urban heat island is real, and austin is hot enough already, so thanks for the very humane suggestion! the screen on my phone used to turn black if i forgot it in my car at work. sometimes i left frozen tamales on my dashboard and came back for them at lunchtime. in my student coop, i once looked up from my studies to see that my clock/thermometer said it was 110F on my desk. so yeah, if you're going to cut down all the shade, can a bro at least get some awnings?
- samstave 6y ago
  I have only been to Austin once to consult on an OpenStack install - Cray was in the same building as my client... But when I was packing for the trip - I was like "I am going to texas - so I don't need a jacket and only packed short sleeve shirts and brought a pair of shorts! When I arrived in Austin, IT WAS FUCKING SNOWING I was so damn cold.
  - throwawaygimp 6y ago
    Me too! I got stuck there because taxis weren't running to the airport due to snow. Had a rad time... everything was covered in snow, not a car on the road. Apparently the locals hadn't seen anything like it, so maybe a freak one. This was late 2000's, can't remember exactly when
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
      We had a good snow last month - about 6 inches. But yes that kind of thing is so exceedingly rare (about once every 10 years) that the entire city economy basically grinds to a halt so everyone can go outside and play in the snow. The last time that happened was probably the incident you are describing.
Reason077 6y ago
Such vast, paved, surface-level parking lots are a distinctively American thing. In Europe, for example, you’re much more likely to find covered, multi-level parking structures once a parking lot exceeds a given size.
- chrisrogers 6y ago
  If Europe had the space that exists in and around Austin, they would do the same thing. It's simply far less expensive to build surface lots.
  - ovi256 6y ago
    Yes, this is commonly done in areas where land is cheap, I'm thinking of rural train station parking lots, regional and small airport parking lots.
  - namdnay 6y ago
    Exactly. It’s not like you see massive flat lots in Manhattan
    - sampo 6y ago
      There is this fairly efficient 10-level parking garage in Philadelphia, Arch Street. It is essentially two 10-floor towers connected at the top. They saved room by making driveways one-way. So you enter, you have to drive 10 floors up, drive across the roof, and then drive 10 floors down to the exit. You can park wherever along the way, but you always end up driving all the way up and down.
      - namrog84 6y ago
        That sounds terrible. I feel like I'd get nausea or dizzy. Thats essentially driving in a circle 20 times. Itd be okay if there were 2 mid level cross connections
        6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

stjohnswarts 6y ago

They are trying to strong arm the locals into basically saying they (Samsung) pays zero property taxes to the next 25 years. https://www.statesman.com/story/business/2021/02/04/samsung-austin-expansion-chip-plant-seeks-1-billion-taxpayer-incentives/4309503001/ https://www.statesman.com/story/business/2021/02/04/samsung-... . I hope Austin passes on it if Samsung can't do any better than that.

dimitrios1 6y ago
I hope then you can face the desperate residents who don't have the luxury of having a cushy data collection yuppie job like most of us here do then for missing out on a decent wage like and tell them "no it was for your own good, trust me!"
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  No it sets a terrible precedent. Businesses need to support their community. I would willing to bet that the city council will not let it happen. They may cut a deal but it ain't gonna be 100%. More like on the order of 10-25% like other companies get. Corporations are too greedy. I contract for a living and through local contacts never go more than a month between contracts. The job market here is still pretty great for people who have solid backend/embedded skills, in general it's solid for most people. Those other people can go work for the other big guys or the new Tesla plant who actually cut a reasonable tax deal.
  - f430 6y ago
    doesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen backend devs
    - numbsafari 6y ago
      Why should labor pay for all the externalities created by capital?

cscurmudgeon 6y ago

One of my favorite things to do when I am depressed due to negativity is to read Hacker News comments when Dropbox launched and the NYTimes story on space flight being impossible. I am going to add this submission to that list.

simonh 6y ago

That fab in Texas was the one used to manufacture the early Apple A-series processors. The media and most pundits generally assumed they were made in South Korea, because Samsung.

tooltalk 6y ago

It's kind of odd that Anandtech seems to make a lot of fuss about Samsung's tax break whereas Anandtech's recent article on TSMC's Arizon plant mentions virtually none of the same tax break highlighted for Samsung there. Is Apple still hiring away Anandtech's key editors? https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-arizona-for-2024 https://www.anandtech.com/show/15803/tsmc-build-5nm-fab-in-a...

IanCutress 6y ago
Comparing an article by a different author from a year ago. gg