4 ms·

What do you have to implement?

datejfktn 6y ago
For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it. This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation. Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU backlash. And then you have the UK problem. Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit.
- iso1631 6y ago
  > For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change The consultation had 4.6 million responses. > Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit. So?
  - iggldiggl 6y ago
    > The consultation had 4.6 million responses. A disproportionate amount of which were from Germany (2/3 of the responses, even though Germany only is only ~ 16 % of the EU-population pre-Brexit).
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >it makes laws without popular consultation That's not accurate. >This online consultation, which ran from 4 July to 16 August 2018, received 4.6 million responses from all 28 Member States, the highest number of responses ever received in any Commission public consultation. According to the preliminary results (see annex), 84% of respondents are in favour of putting an end to the bi-annual clock change.
  - datejfktn 6y ago
    Selection effect. Those who really cared about this commented. But what about the 99% rest of population? It's a mistake thinking that because they dont realllly care they will accept either way. Resistance to change is huge, especially when it plays into the narrative "Bruxelles demanded it" And what I meant by lack of popular consultation is that if you go on EU streets and ask about this change 95% of people will have no idea what you are talking about.
    - majewsky 6y ago
      No representative democracy is asking the electorate to vote on each and every bill. It defeats the purpose of having a parliament in the first place.
      - datejfktn 6y ago
        I agree with you. I was just pointing out that it's wrong to say this this decision had ample consultation, because overwhelmingly the population is not aware of it.
        disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        And almost all the respondents were German (apparently this is a big deal in Germany).
    - iggldiggl 6y ago
      > Selection effect. Those who really cared about this commented. And a disproportionate proportion of those (more than two thirds) were from Germany, were that topic was an especially hot issue for some reason or other.
  - andrepd 6y ago
    In other words, an internet poll in which less than 1% of the population participated, 2/3 of which were from Germany.
- kjakm 6y ago
  >> And then you have the UK problem. Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit. It's worse than just EU/UK offset. You would have Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in different timezones.
  - Macha 6y ago
    Portugal and Spain manage it, but it would be extremely contentius among around half of the NI community.
    - andrepd 6y ago
      Issues with the NI/IE border are always delicate, due to obvious reasons in the recent past. Let's say Portugal and Spain's quarrels are much much farther in the past!
corty 6y ago
The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal (edit: and Finland, Greece, Baltic states) has the same timezone. But actually it should be 3 or 4 timezones if you want to be close to solar time. Also, there are people who would prefer having solar zone time +1 (so e.g. UTC+2 in Germany instead of UTC+1). The EU decided to chicken out and let the members decide for themselves. So now each country has to decide which timezone it would like to implement, and of course if a neighbour does it differently, you also got yourself a timezone boundary at your border, which people dislike. So now all the politicians are caught in a state of indecision, keeping the status quo.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal has the same timezone. That's definitely not accurate.
  - corty 6y ago
    Oh, you are right, sorry. The Baltic states, Finland and Greece are UTC+2/3
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    A good portion of the EU is in CET when they probably shouldn't be when it comes to solar time: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Europe France should probably, AFAICT, be in WET (like the UK) and Spain definitely should be. Solar time offsets are quite off for them: * http://blog.poormansmath.net/how-much-is-time-wrong-around-the-world/ http://blog.poormansmath.net/how-much-is-time-wrong-around-t... * https://github.com/stefano-maggiolo/solar-time-vs-standard-time https://github.com/stefano-maggiolo/solar-time-vs-standard-t... * https://24timezones.com/world-time-zones#toc-0 https://24timezones.com/world-time-zones#toc-0
    - kevincox 6y ago
      I hope that we can stop trying to sync noon to the local sun at some point. I think it made sense when communicating over distances was hard and rare. In that case giving local time some meaning (ex: "People tend to wake up around 8") had some value. However now that communicating with people around the word is commonplace I think that benefit is outweighed by the value of knowing what time people are talking about. Because if you try to schedule something before I want to wake up it is incredibly obvious to me. However if we mess up the timezone math by and hour no one will notice unless they think to explicitly check. The only real downside I see is that if the day number changes during your "day" it could be confusing. However I think we will quickly learn to deal with it (overnight shifts have been a thing forever and doctors seem to manage). Plus we already have a weaker form of this when we are talking about late-night activities so I think we will figure it out.
marcosdumay 6y ago
Brazil spent 3 years talking to everybody, publishing the change, and making sure everybody was on the same page. Yet, all the companies providing software got it wrong at least once (some more than 3 times). The only software that got it right were community based FOSS distributions (not raspbmc... that got me). At least all the institutions got it right, so it was enough to announce "Windows|Red Hat|iOS|Android|whatever is wrong today, ignore it and use some other clock".

For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it. This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation. Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU backlash. And then you have the UK problem. Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit.

iso1631 6y ago
> For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change The consultation had 4.6 million responses. > Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit. So?
- iggldiggl 6y ago
  > The consultation had 4.6 million responses. A disproportionate amount of which were from Germany (2/3 of the responses, even though Germany only is only ~ 16 % of the EU-population pre-Brexit).
Hamuko 6y ago
>it makes laws without popular consultation That's not accurate. >This online consultation, which ran from 4 July to 16 August 2018, received 4.6 million responses from all 28 Member States, the highest number of responses ever received in any Commission public consultation. According to the preliminary results (see annex), 84% of respondents are in favour of putting an end to the bi-annual clock change.
- datejfktn 6y ago
  Selection effect. Those who really cared about this commented. But what about the 99% rest of population? It's a mistake thinking that because they dont realllly care they will accept either way. Resistance to change is huge, especially when it plays into the narrative "Bruxelles demanded it" And what I meant by lack of popular consultation is that if you go on EU streets and ask about this change 95% of people will have no idea what you are talking about.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    No representative democracy is asking the electorate to vote on each and every bill. It defeats the purpose of having a parliament in the first place.
    - datejfktn 6y ago
      I agree with you. I was just pointing out that it's wrong to say this this decision had ample consultation, because overwhelmingly the population is not aware of it.
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        And almost all the respondents were German (apparently this is a big deal in Germany).
  - iggldiggl 6y ago
    > Selection effect. Those who really cared about this commented. And a disproportionate proportion of those (more than two thirds) were from Germany, were that topic was an especially hot issue for some reason or other.
- andrepd 6y ago
  In other words, an internet poll in which less than 1% of the population participated, 2/3 of which were from Germany.
kjakm 6y ago
>> And then you have the UK problem. Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit. It's worse than just EU/UK offset. You would have Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in different timezones.
- Macha 6y ago
  Portugal and Spain manage it, but it would be extremely contentius among around half of the NI community.
  - andrepd 6y ago
    Issues with the NI/IE border are always delicate, due to obvious reasons in the recent past. Let's say Portugal and Spain's quarrels are much much farther in the past!

corty 6y ago

The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal (edit: and Finland, Greece, Baltic states) has the same timezone. But actually it should be 3 or 4 timezones if you want to be close to solar time. Also, there are people who would prefer having solar zone time +1 (so e.g. UTC+2 in Germany instead of UTC+1). The EU decided to chicken out and let the members decide for themselves. So now each country has to decide which timezone it would like to implement, and of course if a neighbour does it differently, you also got yourself a timezone boundary at your border, which people dislike. So now all the politicians are caught in a state of indecision, keeping the status quo.

Hamuko 6y ago
>The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal has the same timezone. That's definitely not accurate.
- corty 6y ago
  Oh, you are right, sorry. The Baltic states, Finland and Greece are UTC+2/3
- throw0101a 6y ago
  A good portion of the EU is in CET when they probably shouldn't be when it comes to solar time: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Europe France should probably, AFAICT, be in WET (like the UK) and Spain definitely should be. Solar time offsets are quite off for them: * http://blog.poormansmath.net/how-much-is-time-wrong-around-the-world/ http://blog.poormansmath.net/how-much-is-time-wrong-around-t... * https://github.com/stefano-maggiolo/solar-time-vs-standard-time https://github.com/stefano-maggiolo/solar-time-vs-standard-t... * https://24timezones.com/world-time-zones#toc-0 https://24timezones.com/world-time-zones#toc-0
  - kevincox 6y ago
    I hope that we can stop trying to sync noon to the local sun at some point. I think it made sense when communicating over distances was hard and rare. In that case giving local time some meaning (ex: "People tend to wake up around 8") had some value. However now that communicating with people around the word is commonplace I think that benefit is outweighed by the value of knowing what time people are talking about. Because if you try to schedule something before I want to wake up it is incredibly obvious to me. However if we mess up the timezone math by and hour no one will notice unless they think to explicitly check. The only real downside I see is that if the day number changes during your "day" it could be confusing. However I think we will quickly learn to deal with it (overnight shifts have been a thing forever and doctors seem to manage). Plus we already have a weaker form of this when we are talking about late-night activities so I think we will figure it out.

marcosdumay 6y ago

Brazil spent 3 years talking to everybody, publishing the change, and making sure everybody was on the same page. Yet, all the companies providing software got it wrong at least once (some more than 3 times). The only software that got it right were community based FOSS distributions (not raspbmc... that got me). At least all the institutions got it right, so it was enough to announce "Windows|Red Hat|iOS|Android|whatever is wrong today, ignore it and use some other clock".