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Elfstedentocht
- brettkromkamp 6y agoWe can only hope that maybe this year we will have another Elfstedentocht :)
- arp242 6y agoThe organizers have been pretty clear that they're not going to hold one during COVID, so I'd judge the chances to be extremely small, no matter what Thierry "GOAT IET OAN" Baudet says.
- sammorrowdrums 6y agoThey said they are ready to hold an elfstedentocht within 48 hours, if there is any change to the rules though, so it would need both full ice formation and government intervention. Not holding any hopes though.
- jillesvangurp 6y agoPolitical pressure will be enormous if the conditions are right in a week or so. With elections happening in a month or so, it's unlikely the rules won't change as political pressure mounts. You have to imagine covid being secondary to this news item in the Netherlands between now and when this decision needs to happen. The flip side is that for 10-15 centimeters of ice to happen over a 200km route, the freezing temperatures have to hold for quite a bit more time (a week plus). Current predictions are not inconsistent with that but of course a lot can happen in that time. That being said; it's been quite a while since we've seen these kinds of temperatures hold for this long.
- lcrz 6y ago> it's unlikely the rules won't change as political pressure mounts. No. It's extremely unlikely the rules WILL change. With curfew extended for another month, there is an as good as zero chance they will drop 1.5m rules (which is what the committee has based their decision on) before March.
- rocqua 6y agoAn exception being made for the event, perhaps with strong travel restrictions towards the event, seems within the realm of possibility. For better or for worse, the dutch government has shown pretty big flexibility and a willingness to deviate from stated plans based on new information and public pressure. I would say there's at least a 20% chance the government would change rules to allow this to happen.
- jacquesm 6y agoBaudet really is a cancer, he's now spread to HN. Ugh.
- roelschroeven 6y agoCertainly not this winter, but who knows, maybe in december. Not very likely though: december is generally not cold enough. There has been only one Elfstedentocht in december in its whole history.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoNah not going to happen; they need at least two weeks of serious frost for that, and as it stands, we'll get above zero weather again during the day next week. The sun seems to be melting a lot of the snow as well at the moment.
- armada651 6y agoThis is kind of the equivalent of the Superbowl for the Dutch, but due to global warming it hasn't been held in 24 years. The previous longest interval was 22 years, so some people are starting to doubt whether it will ever happen again. Imagine if the real Superbowl wasn't held in 24 years due to global warming and may never happen again, perhaps then it would be more of a priority.
- Tijdreiziger 6y ago> This is kind of the equivalent of the Superbowl for the Dutch Uh, I'm not too familiar with the Superbowl, but the title of 'most popular televised sporting event in the Netherlands' definitely goes to the football world championship.
- armada651 6y ago> 'most popular televised sporting event in the Netherlands' It's not hard to compete for that title when your competition hasn't had a televised event in 24 years...
- Tijdreiziger 6y agoMore generally, the national ice skating championships are also nowhere near as popular as the national football championship (Eredivisie).
- armada651 6y agoNot every sporting event that uses a football is the same, neither is every sporting event that uses ice skates.
- ramblerman 6y agoUr digging in your heels pretty hard, but most dutch are disagreeing with you (myself included). It's just not a very fitting analogy.
- janvdberg 6y agoThe organisation behind it has already ruled there wont be an event this year no matter how thick the ice gets. But people get the “fever” every time the temperature drops below 0 Celcius. This happens every year, it’s a thing. Also because of next month’s elections some opportunistic/populistic partys are using this event as the hill to die on, hoping to catch some votes and ignoring what people might really be catching in case of such an event.
- FriendlyNormie 6y agoOh no, not the flu! Die faggot.
- Freak_NL 6y agoAs some journalists have noted: the 'fever' shows up mostly below the imaginary line you get if you connect the cities of Alkmaar and Zwolle. That is, there is no 'fever' in the province of Fryslân (or Frisia in English) where the event is held and treasured most dearly. Here in the province people are resigned to the event not happening this year, due to a lack of decent ice and Covid. There will be plenty of skating this weekend, but nothing on the scale of the Elfstedentocht. And indeed, the brandishing of this event by the populist leaders of the two farright political parties in the Netherlands as something that absolutely must go on if the ice does shape up, leaves a sour taste in many a Frisian's mouth. (Source: I'm a born and bred Frisian living there.)
- hutzlibu 6y ago"due to a lack of decent ice " Well, at least the ice should be there, soon?
- Freak_NL 6y agoSeems doubtful at this point. The quality of the ice is quite bad up North because of the snow (you get brittle snowy ice), and the weather predications note a 75% chance of thaw setting in come Monday: https://www.knmi.nl/nederland-nu/weer/verwachtingen https://www.knmi.nl/nederland-nu/weer/verwachtingen Some people might go skating in the weekend, but really, the thickness of the ice is pretty minimal. As the local ice master says: > Der sil hjir en dêr wol wat riden wurde, mar dat is de ferantwurdlikens fan minsken sels. Wy sille de sleatten en fearten noch net frij jaan. Dat sjoch ik der net fan kommen. Ik jou pas grien ljocht as der op bepaalde plakken in smak minsken oer it iis kin. (https://www.lc.nl/friesland/IJsmeester-acht-kans-op-schaatsen-op-natuurijs-dit-weekend-niet-zo-groot-Der-leit-noch-mar-in-skyltsje-26481776.html https://www.lc.nl/friesland/IJsmeester-acht-kans-op-schaatse...) That is: he won't green-light the ice for safe use by the public, and it is quite literally nowhere near the thickness required for a mass event.
- m463 6y agoWhen I was a kid, I grew up in the US where we had snow in the winter but we had to walk or take a bus to school. People would say folks in scandanavian countries were able to skate to school or work and we would all just dream how amazing it would be.
- codetrotter 6y agoI grew up in a Scandinavian country but have never been able to skate to school. We have a lot of snow and ice but only the ice on the lakes and the arenas has been appropriate for skating where I grew up. The ice on the roads between my home and my schools has not been skateable with skates. Short stretches of it maybe.
- Gravityloss 6y agoIf there's no sand, you could use a potkukelkka / kick sled. Back in the old times, old people especially could use this to get to the store when it was very slippery. https://retkirent.fi/listings/813151-esla-potkukelkka-taittuva-malli-tai-esla-kick-spark https://retkirent.fi/listings/813151-esla-potkukelkka-taittu...
- matsemann 6y agoYeah, skating is only applicable if there is a lake between where you are and where you're going. But what I did as a kid up in the mountains in Norway was using a kicksled if it was icy, or skiis if it was snowy. Full send down the 2 km hill to school, I think everyone in my neighborhood grew up learning to be adrenaline junkies.
- cr1895 6y agoPerhaps you are not implying so, but Netherlands is not Scandinavia and is located a fair bit further south.
- mobilemidget 6y agoKatie Couric is coming under fire for saying ice skating is an “important mode of transportation” for people who live in Amsterdam. :) I remember these clips, was funny :)
- aarchi 6y agoI've been using inline roller skates as my primary mode of transportation for the past month. The city I am currently in was clearly not designed for bike or skate traffic, but some newer areas are more accommodating. I've managed to do anything I would have used a car for, on skates. It certainly requires more logistical creativity, but it's a much more enjoyable experience and has no adverse environmental effects. I would be thrilled to participate in an Elfstedentocht. I am somewhat trained and have my own figure skates, though I'd want speed skates for this event. The 200km seems doable, especially since there would be no elevation changes.
- philshem 6y agoLake Zürich (Zürisee) last froze in 1963. Videos: https://youtu.be/eauucwl6C24 https://youtu.be/eauucwl6C24 Short docu-film (DE) https://youtu.be/3_N-wWNXdmQ https://youtu.be/3_N-wWNXdmQ More details (DE) https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich/gewaesser/impressionen_historisches/besondere_ereignisse/seegfroerni_1962_1963.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zueric... Previous years with a frozen lake: > 1223 / 1259 / 1262 / 1407 / 1491 / 1514 / 1517 / 1573 / 1600 / 1660 / 1684 /1695 / 1709 / 1716 / 1718 / 1740 / 1755 / 1763 / 1789 / 1830 / 1880 / 1891 / 1895 / 1929 / 1963 It’s something I expect to never experience - but life can be surprising! —- Edit: would be interesting if there was a correlation between the years above and volcanic winters throughout history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_winter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_winter
- sebmellen 6y agoDo you know if lake Zug froze over as well? Having lived in the area for a while some time ago those videos are really interesting, pretty surprising, and even quite funny!
- philshem 6y agoYes, seems in 1929 and 1963 as well. https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/staatskanzlei/staatsarchiv/publikationen/geschichte-n/downloads-personalziitig/downloads/personalziitig-47-2008/@@download/file/staatsarchiv_erzaehlt_47.pdf https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/staatskanzlei/staatsarchiv/publi... Here’s a funny old video from the Bodensee (Lake Constance): https://youtu.be/FX6HrNxYdd4 https://youtu.be/FX6HrNxYdd4
- azepoi 6y agoLakes can also be subject to tsunamis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauredunum_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauredunum_event
- philshem 6y agoWow, fascinating to learn
- rollulus 6y agoSome context: the Elfstedentocht has become pretty rare due to climate change. Now guess what, while currently being in lockdown, the possibility for an Elfstedentocht is increasing since it's pretty cold to our standards right now. This Elfstedentocht typically attracts hundred thousands of people. Interesting times.
- mcv 6y agoIf the weather allowed it, it would be a real shame to ban it due to Corona. Maybe it's possible to restrict the number of participants and spread them out more. And maybe also restrict or spread out the spectators. Of course it takes place over such a large area that it's impossible to police everything, but they can probably address the hotspots. But at the same time, it's such an iconic event, it may be hard to stop people if it does take place. Is it worth risking a Corona super-spreader event for possibly the last Elfstedentocht ever?
- Freak_NL 6y agoIt's not worth the risk. The organising committee has ruled out the event happening this year because of Covid and the risk of creating a super-spreader event.
- holoduke 6y agoThere is no risk. Corona hysteria has gone out of hand. Even here on hacker news. Elfstedentocht is a perfect moment to say goodbye to all Corona measures and get back to normal life and accept that the virus is amongst us.
- mcv 6y agoIt would be a shame to overwhelm hospitals and have thousands more die just when the end is within reach through vaccination.
- arp242 6y agoIn a hypothetical alternative universe where there is no vaccine in sight I might agree with this, but now we are just on the cusp of rolling out wide-spread vaccinations. It would waste all of the last years' measures.
- jelv 6y agoThe current situation https://www.friescheijsbond.frl/schaatskaart https://www.friescheijsbond.frl/schaatskaart Blue = water or ice <15cm Green = ice >15cm
- polytely 6y agoWow I didn't know Fryslan (Friesland) has its own tld, that pretty cool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.frl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.frl
- Freak_NL 6y agoIt's pretty cool. About the province's name though: it's Fryslân (West Frisian (a language spoken in the province) and official Dutch), Frisia (English), or Friesland (Dutch vernacular). The reason it is called 'Friesland' on English language Wikipedia has to with the fact that there are (seemingly) no acceptable sources that can prove that Frisia is what most Frisian folk call their province in English, and what English speaking folk that have some dealings with the province do too. Of course, often the official West Frisian and Dutch name of 'Fryslân' is used as well in various documents and publications, but due to a number of non-Frisian Dutch Wikipedians who hate that the official name can be used in English instead of the Dutch vernacular 'Friesland' (language politics, often bordering on rather nasty nationalistic sentiments), English Wikipedia uses the vernacular Dutch name that is neither the common exonym (Frisia) nor the official name and endonym (Fryslân).
- polytely 6y ago> no acceptable sources that can prove that Frisia is what most Frisian folk call their province in English That is fascinating, I get why Wikipedia has to be careful with what sources are acceptable, but it produces the weirdest conflicts sometimes. Thanks for correcting me and sharing this!
- Freak_NL 6y agoDon't get me started. There is a town in this province called Grou, which was called Grouw (extra 'w') in Dutch until the Frisian (which was always 'Grou') and Dutch names were made the same thirty years ago. It's only a small town (a village really), so the further you get away from the province, the less known it is. This is fine. In the province of Fryslân many people speak Dutch as the first (or only) language, and many people Frisian. The town is called 'Grou' in nearly all Dutch language publications. That includes tourist sites in Dutch, newspapers in Dutch, municipal records in Dutch, the local train station, the bus stops, and most importantly, what the inhabitants of the village call themselves, in Frisian, as well as is in Dutch. This is fine. So on the Dutch language Wikipedia, the village is stubbornly called 'Grouw', because that is its Dutch name (it isn't). And the Wikipedians whose hobby it is to defend such choices go to extreme lengths to defend this choice. It doesn't matter that the ground-truth is that the old Dutch name is no longer used (in Dutch!), but only that there are no sources that are not government sources (because these are biased to the formal name, which might not be what people use), and is not a local source, because, hey, the locals are all Frisians (who often speak Dutch as their first language), and this is the Dutch Wikipedia. There is however, an academic source from the official Dutch language institute that lists the old name as the Dutch name of that village, and until that list is changed, Wikipedia will bravely defend the use of a name no one uses. I think the relevant Wikipedia policy that makes this possible will change some time soon, which in local Wikipedia time means a few more years of this nonsense. The village itself mostly doesn't care, and just goes on calling itself whatever it bloody well pleases them (which is, barring some odd exceptions, Grou). I live in the same municipality and find this Wikipedia situation amusing/annoying/disturbing, because Wikipedia is the first thing anyone writing about the village grabs for the bare facts. That the name there is simply and plainly wrong is noted by many, but not by all, which is, incidentally, also why Facebook and Instragram automatically tag posts and addresses from Grou as 'Grouw', thus further perpetuating an untruth. Sorry for the rant. :)
- yread 6y agoAs wiki says the current king took part in the last one (he wasn't a king yet back then). And he is very proud of it - all participants get a pin (elfstedenkruisje) and he wears it next to the other "medals" he has even for official occasions https://www.omropfryslan.nl/nieuws/248240-koning-draagt-elfstedenkruisje https://www.omropfryslan.nl/nieuws/248240-koning-draagt-elfs... EDIT: just to add: I'm not a royal bootlicker. I just think it's one of a funny wacky things he does. Like participating in the "throw the toilet" competition
- the-dude 6y agoWe are so proud. A real man of the peoples.
- Freak_NL 6y agoAnd as our prime minister strongly advised his fellow countrymen to avoid travelling abroad unnecessarily last October as the virus spread and our economy took a hit, our king and his royal family sat on their royal arses in a government plane en-route to the private royal holiday home in Greece for a well-deserved royal holiday break. He was already aware of the prime minister's message before he left; he just didn't think it applied to him nor did he think about the example he was setting. They were back the very next day due to the resulting commotion. Another swathe of Dutchmen turned republican that day. Their popularity has taken a dive the past few years. (The sooner we get rid of this outdated institution the better.)
- namenotrequired 6y agoAny HNers ever participated and want to share their experience?
- tobyhinloopen 6y agoMy last name (see username) is similar to one of the cities. Many people spell my name wrong because they know the city and write it the way the city is spelled. Hinloopen (my name) vs Hindeloopen (the city)
- ragebol 6y agoAs a Dutch guy, I'm just curious to hear everyone just butcher the pronounciation :-)
- Cthulhu_ 6y agobonus points if they go for the Frisian pronunciation, "Alvestêdetocht".
- aarchi 6y agoAccording to Wikipedia, Elfstedentocht is pronounced [ɛlf'steːdə(n)tɔxt] and Alvestêdetocht [ɔlvəˈstɛːdətɔχt]. Elfstedentocht is close to how I'd pronounce it as a non-native German speaker, except I was pronouncing ‹st› as [ʃ] and ‹o› as [o] (my native dialect has the cot-caught merger, so I don't use ɔ). Alvestêdetocht isn't much different, except for the ‹A› as [ɔ] that I wasn't expecting.
- trhway 6y agoin the Dutch movie "Kenau" about the 1572 siege of Haarlem and the city women who fought there, there is a scene where the women attack Spanish supply convoy in the fog and they do it riding on skates which naturally afforded them high speed of movement.