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NRA bankruptcy lets critics peer into gun lobby’s inner workings
- aardvarkr 6y ago“We have a technical term for this. It’s called Open Kimono.” That’s such a weird thing to be a technical term. Is there some history to this phrase? Technical terms in my field tend to be more technical in nature and less focused on one’s schlong.
- airstrike 6y agoPeople say that all of the time in Investment Banking and I cringe on every instance... Always such an uncomfortable mental image. Why not say "lay down the cards" or something like that?
- 74d-fe6-2c6 6y agoSimilar to German expression "die Hose runterlassen" (pulling down the pants).
- Evidlo 6y agoWhat mental image? It's not like you're naked under there.
- airstrike 6y agoI think the idea is that the one opening the kimono is doing so to reveal everything that is beneath it, so they are, in fact, "naked under there"
- LatteLazy 6y agohttps://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp I think its more management bullshit speak than actual technical term. Apparently it comes from feudal Japan when people would open their kimonos to should there were no weapons hidden there (may be BS). I guess it like shaking hands in that sense.
- _puk 6y agoOr the origin of the salute [0] - raising one's visor to show that you're friendly. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute
- pimlottc 6y agoNot to defend the term itself, but like with many items of culturally historic clothing that have since become fetishized, people normally wore practical underclothes underneath kimonos. That way, you don't have to change or wash your bulky, elaborate outerwear so often, just the layers that touch your skin. It's also more comfortable and easier to customize the inner layers to suit your particular body.
- diab0lic 6y agoI had also understood it as a feudal Japanese term referring to revealing you have no blades hidden underneath. A reveal that must happen before a civil conversation can begin. Also I don’t think people are naked beneath their kimonos.
- dmingod666 6y agomade me laugh out loud
- dboreham 6y agoNo true Scotsman of course.
- LatteLazy 6y agoThe article is something of a nothing sandwich imho. No new news, no deep analysis. I'm still unclear how the bankruptcy is meant to dispel fraud charges. Or how they can close in New York and reopen in Texas (or anywhere else under US law) and escape their liabilities. It would be very entertaining if someone bought the rights to the name and ran the NRA as a campaign group for safety and education...
- howfoss 6y agoThey're facing charges as an organization at the state level for laws that don't exist in Texas. The organization in New York will cease to exist and New York will have no jurisdiction over a Texan organization. Did you like it when the SCOTUS threw out the claim Texas made against Pennsylvania's election laws because the claim had "no standing"? That will be the same situation if New York tries to sue the Texas organization Also the NRA _is_ a safety and education organization in addition to a lobbyist organization. As a child I learned gun safety from Eddie the Eagle. I still remember the song "If you find a gun, stop! Don't touch! Find an adult!" The NRA's biggest failings in late years have been capitulating to anti-gunners (they supported no fly no buy! which of course was a policy supported by both Clinton and Trump and is designed to disarm minorities) and generally siding with the GOP instead of staying on the side of gun owners' rights, which is why I give money to Gun Owners of America instead. But I'm a crazy person. I think marksmanship and gun safety should be taught in high schools.
- wavefunction 6y agoI disagree with your assessment of the NRA. They appear to me to be first and foremost acting on the behalf of gun manufacturers and the most extreme firearms owners. If they were truly interested in standing up for responsible firearms owners they would have made a public statement about the murder of Philando Castile yet they've remained completely silent. I own firearms and enjoy hunting but the NRA is not a positive force in the US.
- LatteLazy 6y agoThanks for this comment. I'm not a gun owner (I'm actually a limey brit) am I'm never sure how much the NRA are "crazy gun nuts" and how much they're just demonised as such.
- mhh__ 6y agohttps://youtu.be/Kw1evJgGwtw https://youtu.be/Kw1evJgGwtw some background from a lawyer
- NotChina 6y agoNot Relevant Anymore
- ajb 6y agoNot sure I believe the thesis of this article: in a bankruptcy the creditors get to delve into financial details. Okay, but how does this play into the hands of the NRA's opponents? They are the last people likely to be creditors of the NRA. Not seeing the mechanism here.
- Scoundreller 6y agoIt’s a public process, it will all be on a website somewhere. Here: https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/37938179/National_Rifle_Association_of_America https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/37938179/National_R... http://www.Courtlistener.com http://www.Courtlistener.com is another non-profit resource but their website appears down Edit here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/29112859/national-rifle-association-of-america/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/29112859/national-rifle...
- ajb 6y agoOnly creditors have standing to dig though, right? Or do we expect any inquiry to hit dirt?
- Scoundreller 6y agoDig through what? The financial statements and affidavits about what led to the bankruptcy will be made public. It could all wrap up quickly if the creditors all agree to something. Or get drawn out if they start arguing with eachother.
- ajb 6y agoThe article talks about making internal discussions public. I imagine that only creditors have the standing to ask for that, is all I meant.
- Scoundreller 6y agoIt probably won’t be transcripts of meetings, but could include summaries of nra’s discussions with bankers or its business models. Some of their biggest creditors were ad agencies, so that will be interesting.
- exabrial 6y agoAs far as preserving civil liberties in America, I much preferred GOA over the NRA. While the NRA traditionally has been a great organization in preserving the heritage of marksmanship in America, somewhere in the late 90s or early 2000s the wheels came off. I don't think the CEO of such an organization should be making $800k/year.
- AtlasBarfed 6y agoOnce paranoia-based gun sales became a pervasive and profitable, it was my impression that manufacturers and their funding took over the NRA. Although causality may be reversed there. I would also be curious to see if the left's accusations of foreign funding / interference had any truth.
- pjc50 6y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_Association https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_... : truth enough for wikipedia.
- HideousKojima 6y agoThe NRA receives relatively little funding from gun manufacturers, and most of what it does receive from gun manufacturers is in the form of advertisments in the NRA's official publications, etc. The vast majority of the NRA's funding is from individual members. The gun industry has its own well-funded lobby, the NSSF. They don't really need the NRA.
- Rebelgecko 6y agoUnless the NRA is straight-up lying on their IRS paperwork, they get a fairly small amount of money from manufacturers. The majority comes from individual donations and membership dues
- wl 6y agoI can envision an NRA where paying the CEO $800k/year is warranted. But this NRA isn't it. This NRA has tied its fortunes to the Trumpist GOP and promoting tired culture war narratives, seriously harming their political influence and their ability to advance gun policy favored by gun owners.
- jdhn 6y agoGood! Maybe we can determine how much money was spent on slush funds for the leadership instead of, you know, promoting pro 2A laws.
- jorblumesea 6y agoIt's sad how much the modern NRA is used as a slush fund for campaign contributions and not advocating on behalf of gun rights at all. Good riddance.
- COGlory 6y agoThere was a recent ballot measure in Montana designed to prevent individual cities from establishing their own gun law and regulations[1]. In support of this ballot measure, the NRA Big Sky Self-Defense Committee spent $52,632.37. In opposition, the Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund spent $208,357.84, the Alliance for Gun Responsibility spent 15,400.00, I was personally very surprised because I had always been lead by the media to understand that the financials played out in the opposite manner, with huge funding coming from the big bad out of state NRA, and small local governments getting trampled. [1] https://ballotpedia.org/Montana_LR-130,_Limit_Local_Government_Authority_to_Regulate_Firearms_Measure_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/Montana_LR-130,_Limit_Local_Governme...
- postpawl 6y agoOpen secrets still shows quite a bit more spending on gun rights overall: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns Is that really even a surprise? Gun rights has an entire industry behind it.
- COGlory 6y agoOpen secrets is an obviously biased source that believes there should be more gun control. Their compiled numbers could easily exclude anti-gun spending, and I'm inclined to believe their do. For instance, they say that in 2020, there was $1,540,000 spent on gun control[1]. The Montana ballot initiative referenced above had $1,629,596.12 spent in opposition to in in 2020 alone[2]. [1] Committees in opposition to LR-130 https://ballotpedia.org/Montana_LR-130,_Limit_Local_Government_Authority_to_Regulate_Firearms_Measure_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/Montana_LR-130,_Limit_Local_Governme... [2]TABLE: Gun rights vs. gun control lobbying, 1998-2020 https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns
- woodruffw 6y ago> Open secrets is an obviously biased source that believes there should be more gun control. Do you have a source for this claim? They're listed as a nonpartisan organization online[1], and it seems as though their founders were a pair of Democratic and Republican senators. Their current lead project appears to be tracing the Biden administration's money, which doesn't feel like towing the line to me. Edit: I found this conservative source[2], which refers to them as performing "left-wing" campaign finance advocacy. I think they're referring to the Citizens United decision, which has been a rallying point for every government watchdog that I know of. It occurs to me that (1) you could label just about anything as "left-wing" in this manner, and (2) campaign finance reform isn't something that most self-identified leftists would consider "left-wing" (being firmly in the "make government more transparent" category of political activity). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Responsive_Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Responsive_Politics [2]: https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/center-for-responsive-politics/ https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/center-for-respons...
- RyJones 6y agoI’m a Benefactor Life member of the NRA, have been for years. I interact daily with one of the Board of Directors[0]. I agree with the people that are grayed out on the bottom of this page. Wayne and Marion have soaked the membership for decades. The NRA is distinct from the NRA-ILA. Money for politics doesn’t directly come NRA dues. [0]: http://nraontherecord.org/knight-timothy-board-member/ http://nraontherecord.org/knight-timothy-board-member/
- aerostable_slug 6y agoNRA Life Member here. I and everyone I know agree with you on Wayne and Marion and look forward to the kimono being ripped off.
- jakebasile 6y agoAs one of those who believe that self defense is an inalienable human right, I left the NRA years ago along with many in the gun community. They're a laughing stock among the younger crowd (Negotiating Rights Away is a common epithet). They are seen as much more focused on fundraising and slush funds for executives, while being far too open to yet more compromise with too few successes. Meanwhile other organizations seem to be getting things done even if progress is slow. All my "gun advocacy" money goes to: - Gun Owners of America - Second Amendment Foundation - Firearms Policy Coalition - Texas State Rifle Association (technically an NRA affiliate, but most infringements are state level and there are a number of important measures this legislative session in Texas).
- lostapathy 6y agoI don't disagree with you, but let me offer an alternate viewpoint on the broader picture. The NRA has become, for better or worse, the media's lightning rod for the media on gun rights. Could the SAF accomplish what they have the last 15-20 years if they had to be the media's lightning rod instead?
- jakebasile 6y agoI have had some thoughts that even though the NRA is no longer the organization I want, it's name-awareness serves a purpose. I hadn't thought of it serving another purpose by "drawing the fire" so to speak. It will be interesting to see how things shake out as the NRA falls by the wayside. Unfortunately it's hard to remove the threat to the things I value from the situation, so I can't look at it passively.
- TrispusAttucks 6y agoJust to be clear and brief. The NRA financials are solid. This bankruptcy is the response to a politically motivated attack to (illegally?) dissolve the NRA by the AG of New York since historically the NRA is registered in New York. NRA is using bankruptcy as a method to remove itself from NY and reestablish in Texas where there is solid support for second amendment rights from the state government. Decide for yourself which actor is in the wrong.