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Odd dynamic there as unfortunately, standing on principle means getting martyred, and the quote from the former CEO of, “Over the past few months, I’ve met cons

Odd dynamic there as unfortunately, standing on principle means getting martyred, and the quote from the former CEO of, “Over the past few months, I’ve met constant resistance to my product vision, my strong belief in free speech and my view of how the Parler site should be managed” is not CEO level strategic. His investors and board hired him to win, not to pick a principled hill to die on. Martyrs are cheap and nobody making investments can afford cheap things. The irony is Parler positioned itself as less radical than Gab, and it was that very position of bargaining with its platforms is what killed it. How can 4chan, Gab, and the even darker parts of the internet manage to persist online with hardly any money, but someone with Mercer level backing can't keep a site online? The lesson is an example of things we already know, which is that anyone who needs platform permission do to a disruptive startup is already dead. We absolutely need alternative platforms, and our societies need tools that can survive popular histrionics. Getting owned by some sanctimonious prick at Amazon is not pro level play.

newacct583 6y ago
> our societies need tools that can survive popular histrionics. Getting owned by some sanctimonious prick at Amazon is not pro level play. Seems like banning communities that led directly to an insurrection in congress should be one of those tools, no? I mean, that part was a bit more than just "histrionics" by "sanctimonious pricks". I know you won't buy this because of the environment that we find ourselves in, but I assure you that those of us on the left care JUST AS MUCH about civil liberties and free speech as you do. We do. I swear it. We just don't think that forum moderation is really that much an infringement on them (I mean, you're posting this on a heavily moderated forum right now). And we're less willing to forgive or excuse the spillovers from speech into action that we've seen. No one who posted on Parler should be denied a voice on other forums. They just need to do so in places where they can't get away with calling for real violence.
- 22c 6y ago
  A large amount of insurrection planning was performed in Facebook groups. If you're going to apply a standard, at least apply it fairly.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    Those groups all got closed, so far as I know, many of them long before the 6th. Do you have specific one's you're worrying about? It's fair to argue that Facebook should have done more, or did the wrong thing, but they were pretty transparently trying to clean things up at least. Parler wasn't banned retroactively as punishment, they were banned because they were continuing to do no meaningful moderation even days after the attack.
    - skynet-9000 6y ago
      So, the path to success for Parler would have been: Step 1: Hire huge moderation team. Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. Step 3: Build an app that explodes with all the users that are delighted with the moderation. Step 4: Profit! That's not how Facebook and Twitter ("the free speech wing of the free speech party") were launched, but maybe those wouldn't ever have been able to launch today anyway.
      - newacct583 6y ago
        > Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. No, just violent rhetoric associated with a real world violent movement. I don't understand why that keeps not registering in these discussions. I mean, even accepting your frame that we leftists have infested Big Tech and want nothing but to censor our political enemies: they've had years and years to do it, and didn't. And only when it got to the point where congress was actually attacked that a site had to be shut down. And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. I mean really, if conservatives are so terribly censored... how is it you guys are so loud about it?
        skynet-9000 6y ago
        > And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. Is this intentionally ironic? Or did you not actually know that Gab was completely deplatformed in exactly the same way, and it almost killed them by knocking them offline for months, just when they hit a big growth curve. Interesting, actually, that the timing was so similar, as well as some of the same players.
- motohagiography 6y ago
  I'd argue the insurrection narrative is as much of a farce as Kim Jong Il hitting 11 hole-in-one strokes on a golf course, because if you voice doubt about the absurdity of the claim, it marks you as a dangerous subversive. Everybody knows it, and they're just too afraid to say so because they're worried they will get put on a list. Some conspicuously unarmed people trespassed and even managed to bring camera crews. Tech companies make these grand unctuous gestures because it distracts from how awful they know they already are. Everybody knows. The Parler CEO failed to create an alternative platform because he thought he could bargain with people who are not only not-above mendacity and deception, but it is their stock in trade. He's just a coach who lost in the play-offs due to unforced errors.
  - seventytwo 6y ago
    Sympathizing with people trying to literally block the constitutional duty of congress engaging in carrying out the most fundamental aspect of a democracy? Smh
  - vkou 6y ago
    How do you think coups work? Look into the history of Greek city states. A mob of civilians storming the chambers of government is quite literally how tyrants have installed themselves. Some of those tyrants had to try multiple times, before the last attempt succeeded. They generally follow up by killing their political rivals, because people who come to power through violence rarely turn around and adopt a policy of pacifism.
    - stickfigure 6y ago
      There was no real threat to democracy here. It's not like the police and military are going to take commands from some nutjob cosplayer just because they're wielding Nancy Pelosi's lectern.
      - sterlind 6y ago
        Not the mob directly, but a wicked power struggle could have ensued if they'd, say, succeeded in hanging Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi. For instance, martial law could have been declared, or an alt-right paramilitary could have formed, or the Federal government could have reacted so strongly that states defy orders and rulings. Probably the most realistic worry would be that political violence and domestic terrorism become normalized. It really did make the US government seem far more fragile than I even expected.
op03 6y ago
He is saying what he needs to say to get the next clubhouse of impatient, misguided rich people to fund "vision". Standing on principles my ass. The only thing I am happy about is how fast the cycle is operating these days ie how quickly mindlessly ambitious self important people who get propped up through pandering to the right clubhouse get discarded. Thats a good thing.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  It’s just too bad they keep getting recycled into the clubhouse. If investors really wanted to stop propping up mindlessly ambitious self important people, they need to stop giving them money and maybe look for entrepreneurs who actually know what they are doing.
  - fuzzfactor 6y ago
    >propping up mindlessly ambitious self important people >look for entrepreneurs who actually know what they are doing Um, with enough capital they usually make money either way and guess which kind are easiest to come by.
ashtonkem 6y ago
> I’ve met constant resistance to my product vision, my strong belief in free speech and my view of how the Parler site should be managed This is a lie, it’s just a question of whether or not he believes it or if he’s just saying what he needs to say to land another role. Parler moderated all kinds of people off the platform for a variety of reasons, including political speech. Anything they said to the contrary was no more than PR puffery, not reality.
dannyw 6y ago
Free legal speech usually stays online. It will be deplatformed from mobile stores, but even Cloudflare protects the reincarnation of TheDonald (patriots.win). Parler, OTOH, constantly had threats of harm to elected representatives, or just democrats in general.
- Fogest 6y ago
  Cloudflare even supports sites like thepiratebay if I recall correctly. It does make me respect them more and makes me happy to do business with them.
  - jiveturkey 6y ago
    except when they don’t!!! they have banned legal but distasteful sites before.
  - minsc__and__boo 6y ago
    Piratebay is just hosting the magnet links, right? That's not infringing copyright IIRC.
    - Fogest 6y ago
      Yes I believe they now only host magnet links. I believe they did used to have .torrent files. I am not sure if .torrent files actually make a huge difference in copyright though do they? Aren't they still almost the same as a magnet link just essentially a different format? I believe they switched to only magnet links as it made it easier for them to be mirrored and switch around providers to hide from authorities without having to worry about all those files. Also most people likely use magnet links anyway.
      - greenpresident 6y ago
        They used to run a large tracker in the past which facilitated the exchange of copyrighted material. iirc they don't do that any longer, as a result of their legal turmoils.
jiveturkey 6y ago
as always, spot on.
syshum 6y ago
>> Parler positioned itself as less radical than Gab .. How can 4chan, Gab, and the even darker parts of the internet manage to persist online Some of it has do with the fact that when it comes to political speech you can not be moderate. if you do you fall lock step in with one of the extreme's you painted by both extremes as the other... For example many times, in the same conversation or talking about the same topic with different groups I have been called a Socialist, Commie, Nazi White Supremacist, racist, etc... Political extremism seems to be the only political conversation left on the internet, this goes for both the "left" and the "right"
- Applejinx 6y ago
  You might consider the idea that Parler 'positioned' itself and was not in the least what it claimed itself to be. Some folks lie. Some platforms lie. If 'I promise I don't want to kill you' becomes the logical Kryptonite to get you out of any sort of jam, then it becomes nothing more than an exploit useful to people who want to kill you. All they have to do is say, 'no, you see, I'm telling you I don't and so you have to believe me' and then kill you, because they were lying. Law is based on the idea that people can intend all these negative things and then lie about them and then go through a process to be held accountable: it's never about just taking people at their word. Parler's just what AWS thought it was. Anyone trying really hard to obfuscate that is probably Parler-like themselves.
  - syshum 6y ago
    >>Anyone trying really hard to obfuscate that is probably Parler-like themselves. Thank you for proving my point.... If I do not agree with you then clearly I am alt-right extremist.. Sigh... there really is not point discussing politics in a rational way anymore. This is how extremism persists.
    - Applejinx 6y ago
      Ya know, if that's the banner you want to march under… then so be it. Nazis lie, and especially love to argue that 'oh, if you don't take me at face value and accept my word then that means I'm a nazi! You know you are just FORCING me to be a nazi, right? You're the real nazi, and when the revolution comes I won't be a bit sorry to gas you, because you're a MEANIE!' So, is that what you are, or not? :) How not alt-right extremist are you, and can you prove it in any way, or is your only (rapidly provided!) argument 'you're doubting my word, and that means you're the real extremist and there's no point talking to you because you're the real extremist and everybody else should shun you, you irrational person!' Is that not what you are? You're explicitly making that argument. I'm asserting that is a tainted argument and doubling down that I mistrust your arguments because this is how you're making them.

newacct583 6y ago

> our societies need tools that can survive popular histrionics. Getting owned by some sanctimonious prick at Amazon is not pro level play. Seems like banning communities that led directly to an insurrection in congress should be one of those tools, no? I mean, that part was a bit more than just "histrionics" by "sanctimonious pricks". I know you won't buy this because of the environment that we find ourselves in, but I assure you that those of us on the left care JUST AS MUCH about civil liberties and free speech as you do. We do. I swear it. We just don't think that forum moderation is really that much an infringement on them (I mean, you're posting this on a heavily moderated forum right now). And we're less willing to forgive or excuse the spillovers from speech into action that we've seen. No one who posted on Parler should be denied a voice on other forums. They just need to do so in places where they can't get away with calling for real violence.

22c 6y ago
A large amount of insurrection planning was performed in Facebook groups. If you're going to apply a standard, at least apply it fairly.
- newacct583 6y ago
  Those groups all got closed, so far as I know, many of them long before the 6th. Do you have specific one's you're worrying about? It's fair to argue that Facebook should have done more, or did the wrong thing, but they were pretty transparently trying to clean things up at least. Parler wasn't banned retroactively as punishment, they were banned because they were continuing to do no meaningful moderation even days after the attack.
  - skynet-9000 6y ago
    So, the path to success for Parler would have been: Step 1: Hire huge moderation team. Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. Step 3: Build an app that explodes with all the users that are delighted with the moderation. Step 4: Profit! That's not how Facebook and Twitter ("the free speech wing of the free speech party") were launched, but maybe those wouldn't ever have been able to launch today anyway.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      > Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. No, just violent rhetoric associated with a real world violent movement. I don't understand why that keeps not registering in these discussions. I mean, even accepting your frame that we leftists have infested Big Tech and want nothing but to censor our political enemies: they've had years and years to do it, and didn't. And only when it got to the point where congress was actually attacked that a site had to be shut down. And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. I mean really, if conservatives are so terribly censored... how is it you guys are so loud about it?
      - skynet-9000 6y ago
        > And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. Is this intentionally ironic? Or did you not actually know that Gab was completely deplatformed in exactly the same way, and it almost killed them by knocking them offline for months, just when they hit a big growth curve. Interesting, actually, that the timing was so similar, as well as some of the same players.
motohagiography 6y ago
I'd argue the insurrection narrative is as much of a farce as Kim Jong Il hitting 11 hole-in-one strokes on a golf course, because if you voice doubt about the absurdity of the claim, it marks you as a dangerous subversive. Everybody knows it, and they're just too afraid to say so because they're worried they will get put on a list. Some conspicuously unarmed people trespassed and even managed to bring camera crews. Tech companies make these grand unctuous gestures because it distracts from how awful they know they already are. Everybody knows. The Parler CEO failed to create an alternative platform because he thought he could bargain with people who are not only not-above mendacity and deception, but it is their stock in trade. He's just a coach who lost in the play-offs due to unforced errors.
- seventytwo 6y ago
  Sympathizing with people trying to literally block the constitutional duty of congress engaging in carrying out the most fundamental aspect of a democracy? Smh
- vkou 6y ago
  How do you think coups work? Look into the history of Greek city states. A mob of civilians storming the chambers of government is quite literally how tyrants have installed themselves. Some of those tyrants had to try multiple times, before the last attempt succeeded. They generally follow up by killing their political rivals, because people who come to power through violence rarely turn around and adopt a policy of pacifism.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    There was no real threat to democracy here. It's not like the police and military are going to take commands from some nutjob cosplayer just because they're wielding Nancy Pelosi's lectern.
    - sterlind 6y ago
      Not the mob directly, but a wicked power struggle could have ensued if they'd, say, succeeded in hanging Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi. For instance, martial law could have been declared, or an alt-right paramilitary could have formed, or the Federal government could have reacted so strongly that states defy orders and rulings. Probably the most realistic worry would be that political violence and domestic terrorism become normalized. It really did make the US government seem far more fragile than I even expected.

op03 6y ago

He is saying what he needs to say to get the next clubhouse of impatient, misguided rich people to fund "vision". Standing on principles my ass. The only thing I am happy about is how fast the cycle is operating these days ie how quickly mindlessly ambitious self important people who get propped up through pandering to the right clubhouse get discarded. Thats a good thing.

ryandrake 6y ago
It’s just too bad they keep getting recycled into the clubhouse. If investors really wanted to stop propping up mindlessly ambitious self important people, they need to stop giving them money and maybe look for entrepreneurs who actually know what they are doing.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  >propping up mindlessly ambitious self important people >look for entrepreneurs who actually know what they are doing Um, with enough capital they usually make money either way and guess which kind are easiest to come by.

ashtonkem 6y ago

> I’ve met constant resistance to my product vision, my strong belief in free speech and my view of how the Parler site should be managed This is a lie, it’s just a question of whether or not he believes it or if he’s just saying what he needs to say to land another role. Parler moderated all kinds of people off the platform for a variety of reasons, including political speech. Anything they said to the contrary was no more than PR puffery, not reality.

dannyw 6y ago

Free legal speech usually stays online. It will be deplatformed from mobile stores, but even Cloudflare protects the reincarnation of TheDonald (patriots.win). Parler, OTOH, constantly had threats of harm to elected representatives, or just democrats in general.

Fogest 6y ago
Cloudflare even supports sites like thepiratebay if I recall correctly. It does make me respect them more and makes me happy to do business with them.
- jiveturkey 6y ago
  except when they don’t!!! they have banned legal but distasteful sites before.
- minsc__and__boo 6y ago
  Piratebay is just hosting the magnet links, right? That's not infringing copyright IIRC.
  - Fogest 6y ago
    Yes I believe they now only host magnet links. I believe they did used to have .torrent files. I am not sure if .torrent files actually make a huge difference in copyright though do they? Aren't they still almost the same as a magnet link just essentially a different format? I believe they switched to only magnet links as it made it easier for them to be mirrored and switch around providers to hide from authorities without having to worry about all those files. Also most people likely use magnet links anyway.
    - greenpresident 6y ago
      They used to run a large tracker in the past which facilitated the exchange of copyrighted material. iirc they don't do that any longer, as a result of their legal turmoils.

jiveturkey 6y ago

as always, spot on.

syshum 6y ago

>> Parler positioned itself as less radical than Gab .. How can 4chan, Gab, and the even darker parts of the internet manage to persist online Some of it has do with the fact that when it comes to political speech you can not be moderate. if you do you fall lock step in with one of the extreme's you painted by both extremes as the other... For example many times, in the same conversation or talking about the same topic with different groups I have been called a Socialist, Commie, Nazi White Supremacist, racist, etc... Political extremism seems to be the only political conversation left on the internet, this goes for both the "left" and the "right"

Applejinx 6y ago
You might consider the idea that Parler 'positioned' itself and was not in the least what it claimed itself to be. Some folks lie. Some platforms lie. If 'I promise I don't want to kill you' becomes the logical Kryptonite to get you out of any sort of jam, then it becomes nothing more than an exploit useful to people who want to kill you. All they have to do is say, 'no, you see, I'm telling you I don't and so you have to believe me' and then kill you, because they were lying. Law is based on the idea that people can intend all these negative things and then lie about them and then go through a process to be held accountable: it's never about just taking people at their word. Parler's just what AWS thought it was. Anyone trying really hard to obfuscate that is probably Parler-like themselves.
- syshum 6y ago
  >>Anyone trying really hard to obfuscate that is probably Parler-like themselves. Thank you for proving my point.... If I do not agree with you then clearly I am alt-right extremist.. Sigh... there really is not point discussing politics in a rational way anymore. This is how extremism persists.
  - Applejinx 6y ago
    Ya know, if that's the banner you want to march under… then so be it. Nazis lie, and especially love to argue that 'oh, if you don't take me at face value and accept my word then that means I'm a nazi! You know you are just FORCING me to be a nazi, right? You're the real nazi, and when the revolution comes I won't be a bit sorry to gas you, because you're a MEANIE!' So, is that what you are, or not? :) How not alt-right extremist are you, and can you prove it in any way, or is your only (rapidly provided!) argument 'you're doubting my word, and that means you're the real extremist and there's no point talking to you because you're the real extremist and everybody else should shun you, you irrational person!' Is that not what you are? You're explicitly making that argument. I'm asserting that is a tainted argument and doubling down that I mistrust your arguments because this is how you're making them.