15 ms·

Ford, Google form 'strategic partnership' on cloud services, Android

113 points by mfer 6y ago

fulafel 6y ago
How does this work with the short EOL times of Android devices? Is there some special arrangement to supply patches for the lifetime of the car?
- andrewia 6y ago
  Unfortunately many cars are already running Android for their infotainment (notable Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Honda), have Wi-Fi and cellular connections, and never get updated. From this point, securing infotainment systems (such as by using a system updated by Google that also supports updating individual system components, i.e. modern Android), is a step in the right direction.
mfer 6y ago
Android, in most setups, sends constant data to Google about what you do. Will this now happen with our cars? Google has an opportunity to collect even more data. This could help their data scrapping for surveillance capitalism. If you have your google account blocked, will features in your car stop working?
lostphilosopher 6y ago
Only partially on topic... The worst part of my 2020 Toyota is the “ETunes” infotainment system. This is my 4th Toyota and the only one that has felt like a step backwards due to how bad that system is. Cars have had working radios since before I was born. This car has a radio with a bad UI and a habit of showing error messages... This is a dumb way to lose a customer.
greesil 6y ago
I really enjoyed having Android Auto in my Chevy Bolt. It's just letting my phone display stuff on my screen, but not running Android. I could run Maps, play spotify as a I drive, and if I had root on my phone I could also play youtube videos for my kids :) I have to wonder, is having Android in my car going to lead to a situation where I'm stuck with some old, insecure version of Android, just like my shitty Verizon phone which they never bothered to upgrade from Oreo? Because if that's the case, no thank you.
- webkike 6y ago
  I would say it’s almost a certainty that will happen
- sithadmin 6y ago
  >is having Android in my car going to lead to a situation where I'm stuck with some old, insecure version of Android Of course it is. This plagues every single device that runs Android. And Ford already has an awful track record of inflicting infotainment software horrors on their customers.
  - anewaccount2021 6y ago
    > This plagues every single device that runs Android huh? My Samsung S20 is on the latest OS and security patches
    - sithadmin 6y ago
      So is mine. The point here is that it won't be 1-2 years from now when it gets abandoned just like every other Android device. Considering that the lifecycle of the average Ford is many years longer than that of any mobile device, this is clearly going to be problematic.
      - EvilEy3 6y ago
        No it won't. Samsung has 3 upgrades policy now. With security updates it is 4 years or more.
    - thekyle 6y ago
      Isn't the Galaxy S20 basically a brand-new phone? It hasn't even been out for a year yet.
    - maccard 6y ago
      My current car is 3 years old and us the newest on the street. There are dozens of phones and Android devices the same age that haven't received updates.
UI_at_80x24 6y ago
Anything has got to be better then the Microsoft Infotainment system in my old Ford. To be honest though, I wish all of these addons would stop. I don't think they improve anything related to driving, but infact make it worse by cramming all kinds of important interfaces behind a touch-screen.
- centimeter 6y ago
  Reassignable control surfaces (touch screen, multi-purpose dials, etc.) is by far the worst extant UI paradigm for anything that has to be operated without full attention. Cameras are another example where not having dedicated physical controls for each property is horrible for proficient operation.
- unixhero 6y ago
  Yeah. The ms infotainment really sucked.
- at-fates-hands 6y ago
  I used to pair the Microsoft SYNC system with my Windows phone in my Ford Fiesta and it was awesome. It would link immediately, the voice commands were straight forward and always worked quickly and accurately. I barely use the voice commands in my Corolla right now. It almost never works, takes forever to sync with my phone (Samsung Android) and the voice commands are total shit. It either doesn't understand me or the commands are so cumbersome just do something basic, its a waste of time compared to just grabbing my phone and pushing a few buttons. Compared the SYNC where I could say, "Call parents, home." and it just worked.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Agreed. My wife has the Microsoft one in her car, and it's such a disaster that she went back to listening to CDs.
blakesterz 6y ago
"Further improve customer experiences for customers with differentiated technology and personalized services;" I must say, from a privacy stand point, that does not sound good. I know most people out in the general public probably don't care, and maybe anyone walking around with an Android phone is already sending the same data back to Google, but something about "personalized services" being generated by my car... I dunno, just doesn't sound good.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Non-personalized Android Auto would be pretty dumb. I like that when I get in the car it puts my usual destinations on the map. Why would I want it to pretend it doesn't know?
  - Skunkleton 6y ago
    > Why would I want it to pretend it doesn't know? I (and I think OP) want it to not know in the first place.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      People who want their software to act stupid are a tiny minority, though. You can probably flip a bunch of switches to make it never remember anything but it sounds like you’re probably better off just not using it. I don’t want privacy derangement to break my favorite features of AA. I like that I can ask it to navigate to that Vietnamese restaurant I went to last week. Or “to school” and have that work correctly.
      - Skunkleton 6y ago
        I want my stuff to act smart, and I am happy to share my data to enable that. I just don't want the data I share to be used for anything other than making my software smart. I would be happy to pay, given the option. I am not ok with my data being used for advertisement.
decafninja 6y ago
CarPlay and Android Auto were gamechangers. Every built-in infotainment system I've seen so far has ranged from garbage to mediocre at best - in cars ranging from econoboxes to six figure cars. CP & AA blows them all out of the water. I don't care how crappy the infotainment is anymore in a car as long as I can plug in my phone.
- PaulWaldman 6y ago
  Agreed, especially with the addition of wireless CarPlay/Android Auto AND wireless charging.
- heymijo 6y ago
  Yes! I've been in late model Porsche's, BMW's, GMC's, Honda's, and Ford's.* It's weird being in an $80k Porsche and thinking "this is garbage" because the infotainment system is so poorly designed. Just get me into Carplay and let me go cough Toyota [0]. *I don't own any of these [0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/29/carplay-toyota-2018-cars/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/29/carplay-toyota-2018-cars/
  - criddell 6y ago
    Porsche does one very cool thing - they released car play capable head units for cars going back to the 1960's: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32254313/1960s-porsche-911-touchscreens-apple-carplay/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32254313/1960s-porsche-91...
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      There have been lots of AA-compatible DIN-sized head units. It's a standard, hence the name.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - criddell 6y ago
bilal4hmed 6y ago
I would prefer a dumb terminal and then I can just plus my phone in and have the OS I prefer. This way the software is updated and moves with me as I change platforms With that said Android Auto is fantastic.
- pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
  > dumb terminal This is evoking imagery of a car whose mid console has been replaced with the tube of a VT100, maybe accoutremented with RoboCop-era keypads along the edge(s), and I like it.
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    ha ha
  - orbital-decay 6y ago
    Aston Martin Lagonda, then.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  Isn't that exactly what AA and CarPlay are? Proprietary signalling, which isn't ideal, but they're essentially just dumb terminals for the phone. Though there is some pass through of technology (e.g. the phone will utilize the vehicle GPS in some cases).
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    I think in this case it will have Android Auto built in like the polestar.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      I think in this case that is true. I sincerely hope they don't plan to do this in lieu of CarPlay/AA. I get that they want to have some kind of infotainment setup for people who don't have a smartphone to use for that, so this can serve that purpose.
amelius 6y ago
Read: spyware in all Ford cars.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  Yes, of course. Just don’t be deceived and think that it is only Ford, or only Android Auto. This is what you get when you buy a new Toyota, for example: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/
  - beervirus 6y ago
    How feasible is it to disable the hardware for this stuff?
    - crocodiletears 6y ago
      Nobody's even really bothered to aggregate and quantify what different cars are collecting, to my knowledge. I don't think anybody's done much real work into privacy-modding modern cars. I'd love to be proven wrong though. I was recently forced to buy a 2016 Kia, and all the smart features have me grinding my teeth.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      Search for manufacturer and disabling telematics/telemetrics Example: http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7954/related/1 http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7954/rela... I've heard that SOS collections can be turned off by activating it and telling them you want to opt out. It would be nice if someone documented where models wifi/cellular antennas are. Perhaps there's a market for faraday cages built by model.
- judge2020 6y ago
  from 2014: https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/ https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/
prower 6y ago
I'm WAY ot of the loop here but do these infotainment systems actually produce tangible, relevant and unquestionable benefits? I think most of it, based also on usage of people I know, comes down to "speak on the phone with the car speakers". That's it. I've personally just bought a car from 2012 with no infotainment systems at all, and I also only miss bluetooth with my phone. That's it. Am I missing something big or is it really just marketing?
- unixhero 6y ago
  Waze. You can run Waze.
- rblatz 6y ago
  it basically extends certain apps (music, maps, phone, messaging) to the car display. Allowing you to control them like they are native apps on the car.
  - prower 6y ago
    Dammit I'm old. I'm sorry if I do the old man barking at clouds. But. How's different or better than this 9$ smartphone mount? https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Car-Phone-Mount-Compatible/dp/B07W4Z4SMZ/ https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Car-Phone-Mount-Compatible/dp/B... All this compromises and costs just for a slightly bigger screen? While I'm driving?
    - jon-wood 6y ago
      The bigger screen is nice, but the benefit is more around proper integration with in-car controls such as the stalk on the wheel for changing tracks etc, and often in-car microphones for voice assistants and hands free which have been tuned to work in that specific vehicle.
    - PantaloonFlames 6y ago
      Yes, a bigger screen but not "slightly bigger". 15" diagonal screen is significantly larger than 6" diagonal. And it's built in, no goofy clamps or mounts protruding into the cabin.
spinchange 6y ago
Did Android become Ford's platform or did Ford become Google's?
- hootbootscoot 6y ago
  This is the best comment I've read in weeks!
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Polestar also runs Android.
sriku 6y ago
... and we'll have no idea who's getting access to our recorded location, and what other information about the driving systems is being transmitted where else.
- judge2020 6y ago
  2014: https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/ https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/
baskire 6y ago
So does this mean your car can be deprecated? 6 year deal is substantially less than the life of a car. I can’t say anything great about old android devices. Large numbers left on older versions with security flaws
rblatz 6y ago
Just another iteration of Ford not getting it. No one wants their crappy infotainment system, it doesn't matter if it is Microsoft or Google's code.
- tboyd47 6y ago
  This is the first comment I’ve read in this thread that sounds like a real HN user and not copy for a car advertisement.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tomp 6y ago
Ah, can’t wait for Java’s GC to hit in the middle of my breaking manoeuvre.
- Grazester 6y ago
  Say what? You know only the infortainment system will be handled by Google Auto?
- rtkwe 6y ago
  The only connection between the infotainment system and your brakes is over the CAN bus, nothing happening on the infotainment should affect braking.
  - hootbootscoot 6y ago
    I'll take exception and note that many metrics are displayed on the infotainment system, to say nothing of GPS and phone calls. I know that laws are intended to mitigate this, but the basic issue is that Android has frustrating UI issues that will likely contribute to an unsafe motor vehicle environment. Distractions exist. Android nearly gets me killed on a daily basis as-is, without making my car into a glorified smart phone.
  - hootbootscoot 6y ago
    but back to your original topic, I'm semi-familiar with the buggy world of automation drivers and the shady industry practices after a brief foray into home and industrial automation. I'm not referring to CAN drivers, particularly. Doubtless there are industry standards and compliance etc. You surely must recognize that having any connection whatsoever between an automotive control network and an onboard infotainment system represents a potential attack vector, right? There are countless low-hanging fruit already on the market as far as automotive hacks, and this simply will enrich that supply...
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      It's a controllable risk that can enable some useful things like getting meaningful error messages instead of a single check engine light.
0xbadcafebee 6y ago
"Accelerate modernization of product development, manufacturing and supply chain management, including exploration of using vision AI for manufacturing employee training and even more reliable plant equipment performance;" Oh sweet baby Jesus they're doing digital transformation. Look for a billion in losses over the next few years from poorly executing a DevOps transition. Also there's this: "Further improve customer experiences for customers with differentiated technology and personalized services; "Fast track the implementation of data-driven business models resulting in customers receiving real-time notices such as maintenance requests or trade-in alerts." They're going to play you personalized ads in your car. "I see you're driving through Virginia! Stop by Crazy Larry's GM Dealership for a deal on an oil change! We both know you wait too long for that oil change, Phil."
Shivetya 6y ago
That last bullet point is key, Ford wants to advertise to you and likely sell your attention to others. Trade in alerts? Oh joy. In other words, they are jealous of OnStar and the only question remains is, how much will Ford charge for other than the most basic of services by incorporating Android into their cars. Do not assume what they are adding is free of a monthly charge
- tvjunky 6y ago
  Agree but this is bigger than an Onstar feature clone. This is data. Now there is always on driving data from everyone with a new ford, not just a Ford AND AA plugged in.
giantg2 6y ago
I like Android, but I really don't think it belongs as an integral part of a car. I also don't like cars having connectivity with other devices or the network, but that's another tangent. I like older car control panels - knobs, switches, buttons. You can feel what you're doing so you're not looking at a screen instead of the road. That's not to say I don't like technology in cars. Voice commands for playing songs and a HUD for critical data (speed, RPM, tires, warnings, etc) are awesome.
- dingaling 6y ago
  It's not really integral, at most it's a node on the CANBUS and usually it's not even that, just a head unit wired to the steering wheel controls and a built-in USB port. You can rip it out in an afternoon with a pair of DIN keys and a screwdriver.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I guess what I'm getting at is that if it's part of the CANBUS, it can be an enrtypoint for malicious software. Sure you can pull it out. I had OnStar in a car and I was able to disconnect it by pulling the connection between the cell/gps card and the reat of the car. It's still a pain to have to do that when buying a car.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Head units are extremely restricted in what they can do with CANBUS, generally it's a read-only arrangement so the head unit can lock out functions when the car is in motion, or show statistics. An example, in a modern car I recently purchased, there are settings in the head unit for a bunch of personalization aspects of the head unit... To change settings on the ADAS behavior, you have to use buttons on the wheel to control a menu that appears directly above the steering wheel: The entertainment unit has no ability to control settings for vehicle motion-related behaviors, so you have to deal with a less friendly menu that isn't touch capable to set them. This is also why Tesla is particularly unique (reckless?) in pushing OTA updates which can change the car's driving behavior. Nobody else would use OTAs that way, and most OTA-capable hardware in cars can't actually interact with driving behavior components.
hootbootscoot 6y ago
Wow, I guess I know which mark of cars to avoid in the future. I'll likely get downvoted for what amounts to a negative review of a popular Google product but I find that Android is frustrating to use, hangs in the middle of tasks like typing the word "the" and has extremely dark UI patterns, like the word "backup" in one's photos immediately starting a cloud upload of what could be gigabvtes that even a power cycle won't stop. (there's no "stop" nor "x" on this upload either, and one wonders where "backup to SD" card fits into this all...) Seriously, I can't tell if the ultimate Windows editions since XP were deliberately designed to throw away decades of power-user "ah yes, there's the Start Menu Button" knowledge, and by the same token, I can't tell if Google is merely incompetent or helping sling hardware and dataplans. "Sorry sir, this phone that has 6 processing cores and more ram than 4 90's computers that ran Skype and some IM clients just fine, along with an IDE, a music player etc. this phone just simply isn't advanced enough to handle our material design concepts" or?
- EvilEy3 6y ago
  > Android is frustrating to use, hangs in the middle of tasks like typing the word "the" and has extremely dark UI patterns, like the word "backup" in one's photos immediately starting a cloud upload of what could be gigabvtes that even a power cycle won't stop. Buy proper phone, this had nothing to do with Android.
rootusrootus 6y ago
As long as they continue to support CarPlay, then fine. But I am not going back to a homebrew infotainment that ages right along with the car. When I buy a car now, I won't buy anything that doesn't support CarPlay *. * Yeah, I bought a Tesla, I broke my own rule. That part I regret, even if it is otherwise a good car.
- dagmx 6y ago
  Fwiw Volvo shifted to integrated Android a little bit ago and continue to support CarPlay. Hopefully Ford follow suite
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Wow Tesla doesn't support CarPlay? That's crazy in such an expensive car. I had no idea.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    It makes sense since the car has a snappy, not-trash UI (at least with mcu2) and does most carplay stuff like maps well, but it sucks in terms of not being able to select music using the screen - if you don't have Spotify, you're treated as a second-rate listener and have to select your music using your phone which can be both dangerous and annoying (plus both BT and Spotify such for audiophile listening[0]). 0: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1295606564703748098 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1295606564703748098
julius 6y ago
It calms my mind to not have a complicated connected computer on my CANBUS. Old car + 10$ device channeling the phones audio via bluetooth to the radio + extra screen for parking cameras is a nice enough setup. Not sure what would make me choose a computer car. Besides drive-me-home-drunk mode, of course.
donretag 6y ago
I find it curious that the headline was written to say "Forc cars" when Ford has pretty much exited the car market and will focus (no pun intended) on the truck market. Ford vehicles would be more accurate. I forget the Ford lineup, but I do not think they have lower cost trucks.
- somerandomqaguy 6y ago
  Only in the US; the Focus and Fiesta are still being manufactured for the European market.
jaywalk 6y ago
Ford can't seem to figure out that their infotainment is a buggy mess because they insist on developing it in house and they are completely incapable of developing quality software. The last time Sync was good was when Microsoft handled the full stack. As soon as Ford decided to put their own software on top of Windows Automotive (MyFord Touch) was when it all fell apart.
causality0 6y ago
I might be an old fogie but I don't want car integration. I just want phone accommodation. I want a good place to mount it and I want its audio to come out my stereo. Maybe play controls on my steering wheel but that's it. The car doesn't need its own software. My car is fourteen years old. Hopefully my next car will last at least that long. Sundar Pichai himself could personally promise me that my car will receive security updates for twenty years and I'd still laugh in his face at the very idea.
- cobookman 6y ago
  This is why I like android auto / apple car play soo much. The car just becomes the speakers & display for your phone. Genius idea, and works great
aimor 6y ago
What are modern cars like with regard to needing a data connection? My car (2012) just stored all the data from North America locally and that's been incredibly useful when driving without cell service. The Google way in other products seems to assume an internet connection is available, and offline performance is an afterthought.
- Skunkleton 6y ago
  My car from 2016 had its own cellphone data and gps. It was unclear to me if the data connection was always on, or if I had to pay for something to enable it.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    It seems like even in base model cars, cellular connections are included and enabled for vehicle services. We recently bought a base model car, and without any sort of subscription, the car is connected to always-on cellular as such that the car can be started from a phone app. Another manufacturer I bought a few years ago had similar capabilities, but only included a couple years of access to it before a subscription fee was involved. My guess is car manufacturers can get a pretty special rate for cellular plans that are almost certainly IPv6 only and have extremely low/restricted usage for car telemetry.
    - Skunkleton 6y ago
      Seems like a good guess. I wonder what the privacy story is here?
williesleg 6y ago
They are so fucked. Tesla has years on them, at least 10+
vzaliva 6y ago
I see a dangerous trend of car manufactures aligning with mobile OS manufactures for "preffered" treatment. I am afraid in future battle lines will be drawn and some cards like Ford will support Android Auto while neglective Apple CarPlay while other manufactures will go another way around. So consumers will be forced to chose compatible phones and cars. To make it worse, some families use Android and Apple phones which would make them imposbile to find a car supporting both. I would prefer car manufactures to stay mobile-OS neutral, without showing any preferences and try to support major ones at the same level.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  This is exactly where this is going, and it will continue to do so until the DOJ breaks the back of vertical integration based tech monopolies.
- judge2020 6y ago
  At least for the near future, this new OS will support Carplay: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851021/general-motors-android-auto-google-infotainment#vwVIfG:~:text=.%20Cars%20outfitted%20with%20Android%20Automotive,Android%20Auto%2C%20GM%20tells%20The%20Verge https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851021/general-motors-an...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ivan1783 6y ago
Lots of people praising Android Auto in here. I used it once on a MY19 VW Polo a few years back (car was essentially brand new). I had a Nexus 4 at the time, now I dont know if it was the car or the phone or Spotify itself but the interface was terrible and slow. It would constantly hang and sometimes spotify would crash all together. The google maps navi worked reasonably well but after trying it for one day I switched it off and used the standard bluetooth pair which worked fine. Also, I will rage quit any car OEM that starts showing me ads in the car - because this totally sounds like the next logical jump after "Ford, Google form partnership"...
- judge2020 6y ago
  Google gets their money from ads in Google Maps which already show up as promoted pins[0] (although this might not have gotten into the car UIs yet). 0: https://9to5google.com/2020/06/17/google-maps-square-pins/ https://9to5google.com/2020/06/17/google-maps-square-pins/

113 points by mfer 6y ago

How does this work with the short EOL times of Android devices? Is there some special arrangement to supply patches for the lifetime of the car?

andrewia 6y ago
Unfortunately many cars are already running Android for their infotainment (notable Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Honda), have Wi-Fi and cellular connections, and never get updated. From this point, securing infotainment systems (such as by using a system updated by Google that also supports updating individual system components, i.e. modern Android), is a step in the right direction.

mfer 6y ago

Android, in most setups, sends constant data to Google about what you do. Will this now happen with our cars? Google has an opportunity to collect even more data. This could help their data scrapping for surveillance capitalism. If you have your google account blocked, will features in your car stop working?

lostphilosopher 6y ago

Only partially on topic... The worst part of my 2020 Toyota is the “ETunes” infotainment system. This is my 4th Toyota and the only one that has felt like a step backwards due to how bad that system is. Cars have had working radios since before I was born. This car has a radio with a bad UI and a habit of showing error messages... This is a dumb way to lose a customer.

greesil 6y ago

I really enjoyed having Android Auto in my Chevy Bolt. It's just letting my phone display stuff on my screen, but not running Android. I could run Maps, play spotify as a I drive, and if I had root on my phone I could also play youtube videos for my kids :) I have to wonder, is having Android in my car going to lead to a situation where I'm stuck with some old, insecure version of Android, just like my shitty Verizon phone which they never bothered to upgrade from Oreo? Because if that's the case, no thank you.

webkike 6y ago
I would say it’s almost a certainty that will happen
sithadmin 6y ago
>is having Android in my car going to lead to a situation where I'm stuck with some old, insecure version of Android Of course it is. This plagues every single device that runs Android. And Ford already has an awful track record of inflicting infotainment software horrors on their customers.
- anewaccount2021 6y ago
  > This plagues every single device that runs Android huh? My Samsung S20 is on the latest OS and security patches
  - sithadmin 6y ago
    So is mine. The point here is that it won't be 1-2 years from now when it gets abandoned just like every other Android device. Considering that the lifecycle of the average Ford is many years longer than that of any mobile device, this is clearly going to be problematic.
    - EvilEy3 6y ago
      No it won't. Samsung has 3 upgrades policy now. With security updates it is 4 years or more.
  - thekyle 6y ago
    Isn't the Galaxy S20 basically a brand-new phone? It hasn't even been out for a year yet.
  - maccard 6y ago
    My current car is 3 years old and us the newest on the street. There are dozens of phones and Android devices the same age that haven't received updates.

UI_at_80x24 6y ago

Anything has got to be better then the Microsoft Infotainment system in my old Ford. To be honest though, I wish all of these addons would stop. I don't think they improve anything related to driving, but infact make it worse by cramming all kinds of important interfaces behind a touch-screen.

centimeter 6y ago
Reassignable control surfaces (touch screen, multi-purpose dials, etc.) is by far the worst extant UI paradigm for anything that has to be operated without full attention. Cameras are another example where not having dedicated physical controls for each property is horrible for proficient operation.
unixhero 6y ago
Yeah. The ms infotainment really sucked.
at-fates-hands 6y ago
I used to pair the Microsoft SYNC system with my Windows phone in my Ford Fiesta and it was awesome. It would link immediately, the voice commands were straight forward and always worked quickly and accurately. I barely use the voice commands in my Corolla right now. It almost never works, takes forever to sync with my phone (Samsung Android) and the voice commands are total shit. It either doesn't understand me or the commands are so cumbersome just do something basic, its a waste of time compared to just grabbing my phone and pushing a few buttons. Compared the SYNC where I could say, "Call parents, home." and it just worked.
reaperducer 6y ago
Agreed. My wife has the Microsoft one in her car, and it's such a disaster that she went back to listening to CDs.

blakesterz 6y ago

"Further improve customer experiences for customers with differentiated technology and personalized services;" I must say, from a privacy stand point, that does not sound good. I know most people out in the general public probably don't care, and maybe anyone walking around with an Android phone is already sending the same data back to Google, but something about "personalized services" being generated by my car... I dunno, just doesn't sound good.

jeffbee 6y ago
Non-personalized Android Auto would be pretty dumb. I like that when I get in the car it puts my usual destinations on the map. Why would I want it to pretend it doesn't know?
- Skunkleton 6y ago
  > Why would I want it to pretend it doesn't know? I (and I think OP) want it to not know in the first place.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    People who want their software to act stupid are a tiny minority, though. You can probably flip a bunch of switches to make it never remember anything but it sounds like you’re probably better off just not using it. I don’t want privacy derangement to break my favorite features of AA. I like that I can ask it to navigate to that Vietnamese restaurant I went to last week. Or “to school” and have that work correctly.
    - Skunkleton 6y ago
      I want my stuff to act smart, and I am happy to share my data to enable that. I just don't want the data I share to be used for anything other than making my software smart. I would be happy to pay, given the option. I am not ok with my data being used for advertisement.

decafninja 6y ago

CarPlay and Android Auto were gamechangers. Every built-in infotainment system I've seen so far has ranged from garbage to mediocre at best - in cars ranging from econoboxes to six figure cars. CP & AA blows them all out of the water. I don't care how crappy the infotainment is anymore in a car as long as I can plug in my phone.

PaulWaldman 6y ago
Agreed, especially with the addition of wireless CarPlay/Android Auto AND wireless charging.
heymijo 6y ago
Yes! I've been in late model Porsche's, BMW's, GMC's, Honda's, and Ford's.* It's weird being in an $80k Porsche and thinking "this is garbage" because the infotainment system is so poorly designed. Just get me into Carplay and let me go cough Toyota [0]. *I don't own any of these [0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/29/carplay-toyota-2018-cars/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/29/carplay-toyota-2018-cars/
- criddell 6y ago
  Porsche does one very cool thing - they released car play capable head units for cars going back to the 1960's: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32254313/1960s-porsche-911-touchscreens-apple-carplay/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32254313/1960s-porsche-91...
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    There have been lots of AA-compatible DIN-sized head units. It's a standard, hence the name.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - criddell 6y ago

bilal4hmed 6y ago

I would prefer a dumb terminal and then I can just plus my phone in and have the OS I prefer. This way the software is updated and moves with me as I change platforms With that said Android Auto is fantastic.

pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
> dumb terminal This is evoking imagery of a car whose mid console has been replaced with the tube of a VT100, maybe accoutremented with RoboCop-era keypads along the edge(s), and I like it.
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  ha ha
- orbital-decay 6y ago
  Aston Martin Lagonda, then.
rootusrootus 6y ago
Isn't that exactly what AA and CarPlay are? Proprietary signalling, which isn't ideal, but they're essentially just dumb terminals for the phone. Though there is some pass through of technology (e.g. the phone will utilize the vehicle GPS in some cases).
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  I think in this case it will have Android Auto built in like the polestar.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    I think in this case that is true. I sincerely hope they don't plan to do this in lieu of CarPlay/AA. I get that they want to have some kind of infotainment setup for people who don't have a smartphone to use for that, so this can serve that purpose.

amelius 6y ago

Read: spyware in all Ford cars.

OldHand2018 6y ago
Yes, of course. Just don’t be deceived and think that it is only Ford, or only Android Auto. This is what you get when you buy a new Toyota, for example: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/
- beervirus 6y ago
  How feasible is it to disable the hardware for this stuff?
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    Nobody's even really bothered to aggregate and quantify what different cars are collecting, to my knowledge. I don't think anybody's done much real work into privacy-modding modern cars. I'd love to be proven wrong though. I was recently forced to buy a 2016 Kia, and all the smart features have me grinding my teeth.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    Search for manufacturer and disabling telematics/telemetrics Example: http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7954/related/1 http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7954/rela... I've heard that SOS collections can be turned off by activating it and telling them you want to opt out. It would be nice if someone documented where models wifi/cellular antennas are. Perhaps there's a market for faraday cages built by model.
judge2020 6y ago
from 2014: https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/ https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/

prower 6y ago

I'm WAY ot of the loop here but do these infotainment systems actually produce tangible, relevant and unquestionable benefits? I think most of it, based also on usage of people I know, comes down to "speak on the phone with the car speakers". That's it. I've personally just bought a car from 2012 with no infotainment systems at all, and I also only miss bluetooth with my phone. That's it. Am I missing something big or is it really just marketing?

unixhero 6y ago
Waze. You can run Waze.
rblatz 6y ago
it basically extends certain apps (music, maps, phone, messaging) to the car display. Allowing you to control them like they are native apps on the car.
- prower 6y ago
  Dammit I'm old. I'm sorry if I do the old man barking at clouds. But. How's different or better than this 9$ smartphone mount? https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Car-Phone-Mount-Compatible/dp/B07W4Z4SMZ/ https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Car-Phone-Mount-Compatible/dp/B... All this compromises and costs just for a slightly bigger screen? While I'm driving?
  - jon-wood 6y ago
    The bigger screen is nice, but the benefit is more around proper integration with in-car controls such as the stalk on the wheel for changing tracks etc, and often in-car microphones for voice assistants and hands free which have been tuned to work in that specific vehicle.
  - PantaloonFlames 6y ago
    Yes, a bigger screen but not "slightly bigger". 15" diagonal screen is significantly larger than 6" diagonal. And it's built in, no goofy clamps or mounts protruding into the cabin.

spinchange 6y ago

Did Android become Ford's platform or did Ford become Google's?

hootbootscoot 6y ago
This is the best comment I've read in weeks!
speedgoose 6y ago
Polestar also runs Android.

sriku 6y ago

... and we'll have no idea who's getting access to our recorded location, and what other information about the driving systems is being transmitted where else.

judge2020 6y ago
2014: https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/ https://mashable.com/2014/02/12/ford-gps-privacy-practices/

baskire 6y ago

So does this mean your car can be deprecated? 6 year deal is substantially less than the life of a car. I can’t say anything great about old android devices. Large numbers left on older versions with security flaws

rblatz 6y ago

Just another iteration of Ford not getting it. No one wants their crappy infotainment system, it doesn't matter if it is Microsoft or Google's code.

tboyd47 6y ago
This is the first comment I’ve read in this thread that sounds like a real HN user and not copy for a car advertisement.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tomp 6y ago

Ah, can’t wait for Java’s GC to hit in the middle of my breaking manoeuvre.

Grazester 6y ago
Say what? You know only the infortainment system will be handled by Google Auto?
rtkwe 6y ago
The only connection between the infotainment system and your brakes is over the CAN bus, nothing happening on the infotainment should affect braking.
- hootbootscoot 6y ago
  I'll take exception and note that many metrics are displayed on the infotainment system, to say nothing of GPS and phone calls. I know that laws are intended to mitigate this, but the basic issue is that Android has frustrating UI issues that will likely contribute to an unsafe motor vehicle environment. Distractions exist. Android nearly gets me killed on a daily basis as-is, without making my car into a glorified smart phone.
- hootbootscoot 6y ago
  but back to your original topic, I'm semi-familiar with the buggy world of automation drivers and the shady industry practices after a brief foray into home and industrial automation. I'm not referring to CAN drivers, particularly. Doubtless there are industry standards and compliance etc. You surely must recognize that having any connection whatsoever between an automotive control network and an onboard infotainment system represents a potential attack vector, right? There are countless low-hanging fruit already on the market as far as automotive hacks, and this simply will enrich that supply...
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    It's a controllable risk that can enable some useful things like getting meaningful error messages instead of a single check engine light.

0xbadcafebee 6y ago

"Accelerate modernization of product development, manufacturing and supply chain management, including exploration of using vision AI for manufacturing employee training and even more reliable plant equipment performance;" Oh sweet baby Jesus they're doing digital transformation. Look for a billion in losses over the next few years from poorly executing a DevOps transition. Also there's this: "Further improve customer experiences for customers with differentiated technology and personalized services; "Fast track the implementation of data-driven business models resulting in customers receiving real-time notices such as maintenance requests or trade-in alerts." They're going to play you personalized ads in your car. "I see you're driving through Virginia! Stop by Crazy Larry's GM Dealership for a deal on an oil change! We both know you wait too long for that oil change, Phil."

Shivetya 6y ago

That last bullet point is key, Ford wants to advertise to you and likely sell your attention to others. Trade in alerts? Oh joy. In other words, they are jealous of OnStar and the only question remains is, how much will Ford charge for other than the most basic of services by incorporating Android into their cars. Do not assume what they are adding is free of a monthly charge

tvjunky 6y ago
Agree but this is bigger than an Onstar feature clone. This is data. Now there is always on driving data from everyone with a new ford, not just a Ford AND AA plugged in.

giantg2 6y ago

I like Android, but I really don't think it belongs as an integral part of a car. I also don't like cars having connectivity with other devices or the network, but that's another tangent. I like older car control panels - knobs, switches, buttons. You can feel what you're doing so you're not looking at a screen instead of the road. That's not to say I don't like technology in cars. Voice commands for playing songs and a HUD for critical data (speed, RPM, tires, warnings, etc) are awesome.

dingaling 6y ago
It's not really integral, at most it's a node on the CANBUS and usually it's not even that, just a head unit wired to the steering wheel controls and a built-in USB port. You can rip it out in an afternoon with a pair of DIN keys and a screwdriver.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I guess what I'm getting at is that if it's part of the CANBUS, it can be an enrtypoint for malicious software. Sure you can pull it out. I had OnStar in a car and I was able to disconnect it by pulling the connection between the cell/gps card and the reat of the car. It's still a pain to have to do that when buying a car.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Head units are extremely restricted in what they can do with CANBUS, generally it's a read-only arrangement so the head unit can lock out functions when the car is in motion, or show statistics. An example, in a modern car I recently purchased, there are settings in the head unit for a bunch of personalization aspects of the head unit... To change settings on the ADAS behavior, you have to use buttons on the wheel to control a menu that appears directly above the steering wheel: The entertainment unit has no ability to control settings for vehicle motion-related behaviors, so you have to deal with a less friendly menu that isn't touch capable to set them. This is also why Tesla is particularly unique (reckless?) in pushing OTA updates which can change the car's driving behavior. Nobody else would use OTAs that way, and most OTA-capable hardware in cars can't actually interact with driving behavior components.

hootbootscoot 6y ago

Wow, I guess I know which mark of cars to avoid in the future. I'll likely get downvoted for what amounts to a negative review of a popular Google product but I find that Android is frustrating to use, hangs in the middle of tasks like typing the word "the" and has extremely dark UI patterns, like the word "backup" in one's photos immediately starting a cloud upload of what could be gigabvtes that even a power cycle won't stop. (there's no "stop" nor "x" on this upload either, and one wonders where "backup to SD" card fits into this all...) Seriously, I can't tell if the ultimate Windows editions since XP were deliberately designed to throw away decades of power-user "ah yes, there's the Start Menu Button" knowledge, and by the same token, I can't tell if Google is merely incompetent or helping sling hardware and dataplans. "Sorry sir, this phone that has 6 processing cores and more ram than 4 90's computers that ran Skype and some IM clients just fine, along with an IDE, a music player etc. this phone just simply isn't advanced enough to handle our material design concepts" or?

EvilEy3 6y ago
> Android is frustrating to use, hangs in the middle of tasks like typing the word "the" and has extremely dark UI patterns, like the word "backup" in one's photos immediately starting a cloud upload of what could be gigabvtes that even a power cycle won't stop. Buy proper phone, this had nothing to do with Android.

rootusrootus 6y ago

As long as they continue to support CarPlay, then fine. But I am not going back to a homebrew infotainment that ages right along with the car. When I buy a car now, I won't buy anything that doesn't support CarPlay *. * Yeah, I bought a Tesla, I broke my own rule. That part I regret, even if it is otherwise a good car.

dagmx 6y ago
Fwiw Volvo shifted to integrated Android a little bit ago and continue to support CarPlay. Hopefully Ford follow suite
chrisseaton 6y ago
Wow Tesla doesn't support CarPlay? That's crazy in such an expensive car. I had no idea.
- judge2020 6y ago
  It makes sense since the car has a snappy, not-trash UI (at least with mcu2) and does most carplay stuff like maps well, but it sucks in terms of not being able to select music using the screen - if you don't have Spotify, you're treated as a second-rate listener and have to select your music using your phone which can be both dangerous and annoying (plus both BT and Spotify such for audiophile listening[0]). 0: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1295606564703748098 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1295606564703748098

julius 6y ago

It calms my mind to not have a complicated connected computer on my CANBUS. Old car + 10$ device channeling the phones audio via bluetooth to the radio + extra screen for parking cameras is a nice enough setup. Not sure what would make me choose a computer car. Besides drive-me-home-drunk mode, of course.

donretag 6y ago

I find it curious that the headline was written to say "Forc cars" when Ford has pretty much exited the car market and will focus (no pun intended) on the truck market. Ford vehicles would be more accurate. I forget the Ford lineup, but I do not think they have lower cost trucks.

somerandomqaguy 6y ago
Only in the US; the Focus and Fiesta are still being manufactured for the European market.

jaywalk 6y ago

Ford can't seem to figure out that their infotainment is a buggy mess because they insist on developing it in house and they are completely incapable of developing quality software. The last time Sync was good was when Microsoft handled the full stack. As soon as Ford decided to put their own software on top of Windows Automotive (MyFord Touch) was when it all fell apart.

causality0 6y ago

I might be an old fogie but I don't want car integration. I just want phone accommodation. I want a good place to mount it and I want its audio to come out my stereo. Maybe play controls on my steering wheel but that's it. The car doesn't need its own software. My car is fourteen years old. Hopefully my next car will last at least that long. Sundar Pichai himself could personally promise me that my car will receive security updates for twenty years and I'd still laugh in his face at the very idea.

cobookman 6y ago
This is why I like android auto / apple car play soo much. The car just becomes the speakers & display for your phone. Genius idea, and works great

aimor 6y ago

What are modern cars like with regard to needing a data connection? My car (2012) just stored all the data from North America locally and that's been incredibly useful when driving without cell service. The Google way in other products seems to assume an internet connection is available, and offline performance is an afterthought.

Skunkleton 6y ago
My car from 2016 had its own cellphone data and gps. It was unclear to me if the data connection was always on, or if I had to pay for something to enable it.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  It seems like even in base model cars, cellular connections are included and enabled for vehicle services. We recently bought a base model car, and without any sort of subscription, the car is connected to always-on cellular as such that the car can be started from a phone app. Another manufacturer I bought a few years ago had similar capabilities, but only included a couple years of access to it before a subscription fee was involved. My guess is car manufacturers can get a pretty special rate for cellular plans that are almost certainly IPv6 only and have extremely low/restricted usage for car telemetry.
  - Skunkleton 6y ago
    Seems like a good guess. I wonder what the privacy story is here?

williesleg 6y ago

They are so fucked. Tesla has years on them, at least 10+

vzaliva 6y ago

I see a dangerous trend of car manufactures aligning with mobile OS manufactures for "preffered" treatment. I am afraid in future battle lines will be drawn and some cards like Ford will support Android Auto while neglective Apple CarPlay while other manufactures will go another way around. So consumers will be forced to chose compatible phones and cars. To make it worse, some families use Android and Apple phones which would make them imposbile to find a car supporting both. I would prefer car manufactures to stay mobile-OS neutral, without showing any preferences and try to support major ones at the same level.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
This is exactly where this is going, and it will continue to do so until the DOJ breaks the back of vertical integration based tech monopolies.
judge2020 6y ago
At least for the near future, this new OS will support Carplay: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851021/general-motors-android-auto-google-infotainment#vwVIfG:~:text=.%20Cars%20outfitted%20with%20Android%20Automotive,Android%20Auto%2C%20GM%20tells%20The%20Verge https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851021/general-motors-an...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ivan1783 6y ago

Lots of people praising Android Auto in here. I used it once on a MY19 VW Polo a few years back (car was essentially brand new). I had a Nexus 4 at the time, now I dont know if it was the car or the phone or Spotify itself but the interface was terrible and slow. It would constantly hang and sometimes spotify would crash all together. The google maps navi worked reasonably well but after trying it for one day I switched it off and used the standard bluetooth pair which worked fine. Also, I will rage quit any car OEM that starts showing me ads in the car - because this totally sounds like the next logical jump after "Ford, Google form partnership"...

judge2020 6y ago
Google gets their money from ads in Google Maps which already show up as promoted pins[0] (although this might not have gotten into the car UIs yet). 0: https://9to5google.com/2020/06/17/google-maps-square-pins/ https://9to5google.com/2020/06/17/google-maps-square-pins/