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Rather than the change in transistor design, I think the bigger news is the switch from silicon with dopants to silicon with germanium and dopants. The drop in

Rather than the change in transistor design, I think the bigger news is the switch from silicon with dopants to silicon with germanium and dopants. The drop in threshold voltage from ~0.7v to ~0.3v might be one of the last levers left in extracting even more performance; at the cost of making semi production and equipment even more hazardous.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
Would you mind explaining how the production becomes more hazardous?
- sitkack 6y ago
  I think parent might have confused Germanium with Cadmium? I am no chemist. It could also require other more toxic substances to control reactions or act a carrier. The whole area around Sunnyvale is littered with toxic waste dumps from semiconductor manufacturing. [1] From [2], it says, "Some reactive intermediate compounds of germanium are poisonous", when then references [3] but I can't find the specific citation. I think Germanium is getting lumped in with other toxic chemicals used in semiconductor manufacturing like gallium arsenide, cadmium, etc. [1] https://www.epa.gov/superfund-redevelopment-initiative/superfund-sites-reuse-california https://www.epa.gov/superfund-redevelopment-initiative/super... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Germanium_and_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Germanium_and_health [3] https://www.usgs.gov/centers/nmic/germanium-statistics-and-information https://www.usgs.gov/centers/nmic/germanium-statistics-and-i... https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/germanium#section=Toxicity https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/germanium#section=... https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/cadmium#section=Toxicity https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/cadmium#section=To...
  - amelius 6y ago
    > The whole area around Sunnyvale is littered with toxic waste dumps from semiconductor manufacturing. Makes me wonder how this is dealt with in Taiwan.
    - corty 6y ago
      There is a reason those kinds of industries avoid "the west".
  - bigmattystyles 6y ago
    Fairchild in south San Jose too. When I was at ST High School in the mid 90s calling other kids a Fairchild settlement kid was an insult. https://www.kqed.org/news/11630861/how-silicon-valley-industry-polluted-the-sylvan-california-dream https://www.kqed.org/news/11630861/how-silicon-valley-indust...
j_walter 6y ago
What do you mean "silicon with germanium and dopants"? Implanting germanium as a dopant is already done at much larger geometries than 2/3nm. It's also not any more hazardous than implanting any other ion.
amelius 6y ago
According to the article, the new transistor design offers the promise of lower leakage.
- bigmattystyles 6y ago
  Per transistor maybe, but the leakage goes down less than the amount of transistors you can pack per area, so in effect, per die/chip your leakage increases. Heat as well, but it’s the other side of the same coin.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

Would you mind explaining how the production becomes more hazardous?

sitkack 6y ago
I think parent might have confused Germanium with Cadmium? I am no chemist. It could also require other more toxic substances to control reactions or act a carrier. The whole area around Sunnyvale is littered with toxic waste dumps from semiconductor manufacturing. [1] From [2], it says, "Some reactive intermediate compounds of germanium are poisonous", when then references [3] but I can't find the specific citation. I think Germanium is getting lumped in with other toxic chemicals used in semiconductor manufacturing like gallium arsenide, cadmium, etc. [1] https://www.epa.gov/superfund-redevelopment-initiative/superfund-sites-reuse-california https://www.epa.gov/superfund-redevelopment-initiative/super... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Germanium_and_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium#Germanium_and_health [3] https://www.usgs.gov/centers/nmic/germanium-statistics-and-information https://www.usgs.gov/centers/nmic/germanium-statistics-and-i... https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/germanium#section=Toxicity https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/germanium#section=... https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/cadmium#section=Toxicity https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/cadmium#section=To...
- amelius 6y ago
  > The whole area around Sunnyvale is littered with toxic waste dumps from semiconductor manufacturing. Makes me wonder how this is dealt with in Taiwan.
  - corty 6y ago
    There is a reason those kinds of industries avoid "the west".
- bigmattystyles 6y ago
  Fairchild in south San Jose too. When I was at ST High School in the mid 90s calling other kids a Fairchild settlement kid was an insult. https://www.kqed.org/news/11630861/how-silicon-valley-industry-polluted-the-sylvan-california-dream https://www.kqed.org/news/11630861/how-silicon-valley-indust...

j_walter 6y ago

What do you mean "silicon with germanium and dopants"? Implanting germanium as a dopant is already done at much larger geometries than 2/3nm. It's also not any more hazardous than implanting any other ion.

amelius 6y ago

According to the article, the new transistor design offers the promise of lower leakage.

bigmattystyles 6y ago
Per transistor maybe, but the leakage goes down less than the amount of transistors you can pack per area, so in effect, per die/chip your leakage increases. Heat as well, but it’s the other side of the same coin.