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Tokyo public schools will stop forcing students to dye their hair black (2019)
- tyingq 6y agoI checked to make sure it wasn't somehow an Onion article. That's an interesting cultural quirk I'm surprised still exists.
- Hamuko 6y agoWhy stop at hair? https://soranews24.com/2016/10/27/tokyo-junior-high-school-demands-students-wear-white-underwear-as-part-of-dress-code/ https://soranews24.com/2016/10/27/tokyo-junior-high-school-d...
- leetcrew 6y agoI went to an american school that had its own strict requirements regarding hair. male students were required to keep their hair cut short enough so it would not touch their collar and to be clean shaven. repeat offenders would get a (sloppy) haircut from the dean or be required to shave on the spot, respectively. I don't find the hair color requirement to be any more unreasonable, though perhaps it has a racial subtext?
- Meerax 6y agoOr even genetic subtext perhaps?
- vmilner 6y agoRequiring naturally blonde people to dye their hair black seems significantly more unreasonable to me.
- mjw1007 6y agoThe parallel to requiring naturally bearded people to shave their facial hair off is very close. Both are potentially mildly damaging, and they take roughly similar amounts of time to reverse.
- novok 6y agoDying hair is a lot more work and chemicals than shaving, although you dont have to do it as frequently
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- fastball 6y agoRequiring someone to use a potentially damaging product on themselves is different from requiring a certain hair cut. That being said, I find hair requirements distasteful as well.
- leetcrew 6y agoperhaps I'm just wrong, but I thought dyes were mostly safe and the bleaching step was the damaging part. in any case, this was more of a "people who live in glass houses" post than a defense of the rule. imo we have a lot of arbitrary appearance requirements for school children that do more to distract from learning than anything else. the school I went to justified their strict dress code by claiming it was all to prepare us for our professional lives. I have to chuckle at that one when I show up to the office with hair that goes down to my bellybutton, a beard, and a tshirt, still looking more "presentable" than many of my peers.
- taylorfinley 6y agoIncreased breast cancer risks have recently been reported: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair-dye-straighteners-may-increase-breast-cancer-risk https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair...
- tartoran 6y agoI grew up under communism in E Europe and we had a similar standard and enforced sort of violently and humiliatingly. I remember having longish hair when a primary teacher from an adjacent class stepped in, put her hand in my hair (hair wasn’t supposed to go over finger girth in length for boys) and while dragging it she loudly said: is this a boy? Let’s check his private parts cause he looks like a girl. All other kids were either stupefied or laughing. They did not check my private parts but it was humiliating enough to leave an emotional scar to remember. My teacher liked me and let me have longer hair but when it was growing too long she’d gently tell me she’ll have problems for me, so not everybody was mean. But the mean teachers were very empowered and acting on a whim whenever they felt like. Corporal punishment was also common, they would slap put palms with wooden rulers, pull out hair, etc. I wasn’t roudy and I can say I didn’t get a lot of it but still, if one had ADHD they’d be constantly punished. I wonder what came of those kids eventually
- dehrmann 6y agoMy private Catholic high school had a policy that hair must be a natural hair color. Doesn't mean it can't be dyed, just can't be blue. I'm sure the Japanese policies have the same intent, they just weren't somewhere you'll see red, blond(e), brown, and black in a class of 100.
- klyrs 6y agoSeveral Sikhs went to my highschool, and men are forbidden from shaving or cutting their hair (kept in a turban, it was always above the collar). This wasn't a problem, as we were generally allowed to dress and style ourselves how we liked except for some rules around "decency" and "gang colors". But I've heard plenty of stories, even in the last few years, about Sikhs and black people getting punished for not adhering to various western norms
- dathinab 6y agoAren't their anti discrimination laws which should prevent such very obvious discrimination against some cultures??
- klyrs 6y agoIn the US, such laws provide students recourse after they've been punished, thrown out of sporting events, etc. Schools and sports associations often update their policies after such events get broadly publicized. But no, the law doesn't prevent it altogether.
- kube-system 6y agoOf course, literally speaking, the law doesn’t prevent any behavior, it simply deters it. I think the reason why we see these things still happen is because the laws are broad, continually improving, and education is administrated at a local level so you have different organizations rediscovering the same social issues over and over.
- klyrs 6y agoIt's not just preventing behavior -- there's a ton of places where there are still variously unconstitutional/illegal policies and laws. Unless schools, local lawmakers, etc. are proactive in bringing this up to date (like my high school) then the legal system demands its pound of flesh to show that harm was done to force a change to happen.
- 6y ago
- dathinab 6y agoIt has: a) a racial subtext, through maybe unintended b) damages your hair, potentially permanent c) tells you you are less good because you don't have natural black hair
- rowanG077 6y agoHow does dyeing your hair damage it permanently? Doesn't seem possible to me since it just regrows.
- filmgirlcw 6y agoWell, the structure of the follicle is altered. So if you want to truly remove all damage, you need to cut it all off and regrow it. That’s a lengthy process, particularly for women or men who prefer to wear their hair long. Moreover, there ARE things chemicals can do to your scalp that can prevent hair from growing or growing the same way. People who have chemotherapy and lose all their hair often find that their hair grows back differently (texture, elasticity) than it was before. Hair dye isn’t going to do that, but chemicals absolutely can alter your scalp and the follicle permanently.
- rowanG077 6y agoI somehow doubt that over the counter hair dye can alter your scalp permanently like that. Do you have a source for that?
- filmgirlcw 6y agoI explicitly said hair dye won’t do that, but that chemicals can impact your scalp permanently, i.e. chemotherapy or radiation. Acne can impact your scalp permanently (scar tissue from acne can prevent new growth in those areas). Using too many extensions (particularly if sewn into the scalp) can damage your scalp permanently (again, scar tissue). Having said that, over the counter stuff absolutely affects the the health of your hair and dying too frequently, leaving dye on too long, using a poor quality of dye (of which over the counter almost always is), too much peroxide (which is often needed so the color can stick) can absolutely damage the hair on your head permanently (until that hair is cut off and regrows). The only way to truly recover from the damage due to hair dye is to cut it all off and regrow, which for people with long hair, can take a tremendous amount of time.
- grogenaut 6y agoMy school had these requirements. Vice principal carried around disposable razors and made you dry shave. It was a (catholic) religious school so there were religious exemptions but they also talked with the parents a ton so no one could pull that.
- newacct583 6y agoExactly. Every culture has conformity standards, they just differ in the details. The reasoning largely reduces to "kids who stand out are 'distractions' and need to conform". It's not any different from rules in US schools about bare shoulders, pants vs. skirts (and length of skirt), buttons on shirts, etc...
- Closi 6y agoI agree, it’s a weird cultural quirk that you think wouldn’t exist with the longstanding trend towards acceptance of difference. It’s a bit like Zwarte Piet in The Netherlands, where from an outsiders perspective it looks clearly problematic, but if you have grown up in The Netherlands you likely don’t see anything wrong.
- arpa 6y agoThis is just sad and a good reminder that intolerance to any deviation is inherent to any society or organization.
- snemvalts 6y agoMaybe it's just the weird intolerances - but Japan seems to have much worse and bigger intolerances than anywhere else.
- Taek 6y agoJapan is pretty damn racist, any white who has there for an extended period of time knows that their skin color means they have a much harder time in certain establishments, or even just aren't allowed at all.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- birdyrooster 6y agoIf you are white in Japan they will perpetually treat you like a tourist, which when you are a tourist is great bc they are super helpful, but I could see it becoming demeaning if one wanted to reside there permanently. If you are black in Japan people treat you like an oddity and take pictures of you without asking, comment on your skin color, etc bc they rarely see black people in person. It’s quite rude and I agree racist.
- bena 6y agoThe thing I've heard about Japan is that they're incredibly racist, but so polite it's hard to notice.
- cbozeman 6y agoThe only people downvoting you are people who haven't spent any time there. I was there for over a year, and most Americans can't pick up on the racism initially because its subtle, but like every Oz behind a curtain, once you slow down and pay attention, its glaringly obvious. There are entirely too many idiots - and I don't care what anyone here says, they are idiots - who think only Americans can be racist.
- alphazino 6y ago(2019)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Meerax 6y agoI had absolutely no idea this was part of the dress code. "The ostensible reason for the rule is that almost all Japanese people have naturally black hair, and so they’ll only have non-black hair if they’ve chosen to dye it a different color." Are there any children currently enrolled in Tokyo public schools that are of say european ancestry with blonde hair that needed to follow this rule?
- Hamuko 6y agohttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_nail_that_sticks_out_gets_hammered_down https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_nail_that_sticks_out_gets...
- asutekku 6y agoI know that at least a bald friend of mine had to get black wig to get employed / taken seriously in Japan.
- paulryanrogers 6y agoIs baldness uncommon in Japan? What about naturally graying hair?
- asutekku 6y agoBoth are uncommon for young people.
- Meerax 6y agoSo pairing this with a quote from the article “Students are encouraged to have black hair to serve as a visible signal that they are willing to adapt to society,” makes it feel like accepting societal norms isn't just encouraged it's almost a fascist doctrine? I'm assuming then that phrases like "celebrate diversity" are frowned upon. Edit: I just wanted to add that having not grown up in a non-individualistic society these things feel very unusual to me. My comparison to fascism is a bit hyperbolic and not meant to offend, apologies all round. I'm leaving it instead of deleting purely for the sake of discussion.
- HeavenFox 6y agoMany schools in China require girls to cut their hairs short, so they don’t spend all their time on it and can study instead.
- behnamoh 6y agoTo think that many of them then end up in big tech makes me wonder if their oppressed needs causes them to make decisions that impose the same oppression of ideas/joy on their customers (basically, the rest of the world). Edit: Not saying that it would, I'm just questioning the possibility of it.
- rusabd 6y agoIt is more like high school pressure to conform
- interactivecode 6y agoIf you think people have “oppressed” needs caused by the rules around them, perhaps you should reassess which aspects of your own life are oppressed.
- elefanten 6y agoThat's a pretty good idea. Has anyone explored the option of disallowing friendships and romance? I think kids waste far too much time socializing and pursuing young love. That's a tremendous amount of wasted study time.
- naniwaduni 6y ago"Celibacy" might be a relevant keyword?
- jandrese 6y agoThere's probably some study of highly successful people that shows that the sociopaths with no friends tend to become CEOs so people want to follow in their footsteps to get the maximum score in life.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- quercusa 6y agoA consideration of the Japanese saying "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down": https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/
- didibus 6y agoThis makes me feel very privileged for my mostly liberal and progressive society, for which it seems I take a lot for granted, like the right to dye my hair. Also, I was surprised to hear this, because, in anime, characters very often have colorful hair.
- jbay808 6y agoThis is actually one of the reasons that anime characters have colourful hair. It helps serve as a creative outlet and an escape from the conformity, rather than to depict it. (Conformity at work and school, that is. Walk through somewhere like Harajuku, and even anime hair might start to seem tame).
- heavyset_go 6y agoIn the US public schools I'm familiar with, they had strict rules about hair color and length, dress codes and rules about piercings and tattoos.
- vmilner 6y agoAnd the right to NOT dye your hair, apparently.
- MichaelZuo 6y agoA humorous way of showing that negative rights are indeed more fundamental.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- clcuc 6y agoLinks to Japanese articles: [0]: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20190905/k00/00m/040/210000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20190905/k00/00m/040/210000c [1]: https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO47985000Q9A730C1000000 https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO47985000Q9A730C1000000 Edit: structure.
- diveanon 6y agoI wonder what impact this has on Japanese students willingness to take risks and express themselves once they leave the educational system.
- ku-man 6y agoMaybe you are not aware but Japan has a bunch of weirdos (cosplay anyone?). I understand that in Japan you can be as flamboyant/odd as you want as long as you are in the 18 to 25 bracket age (definition of young in Japan)
- resoluteteeth 6y agoSome of the comments seem to be suggesting that this is because of some Japanese quirk of requiring extreme uniformity far above what is required in other countries but it really isn't; it's essentially just laziness on the part of schools. The real reason for these rules is that (as with schools in many other countries for better or worse) Japanese schools don't want their students, who mostly have black hair, to dye their hair brown or other colors. However, since the vast majority of the students naturally have black hair it's just MUCH easier to write the rules to say that in the rare cases where a student has another hair color they have to dye it black rather than trying to argue with students who have dyed "chapatsu" brown hair but then claim that that's really their natural hair color when it isn't. Some schools like high schools in Osaka have a system where students with natural colors other than black are supposed to register so the school can record their natural hair color to know that they aren't dying it. It's pretty dumb and it sucks for the students who naturally have brown hair but it's easy for the school to be lazy and take the approach of just requiring all the students to have black hair.
- nobodyandproud 6y agoNah. Japan has a very insular attitude towards culture. e.g., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilians_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilians_in_Japan Wikipedia mostly talks about Brazilian nikkei (fascinating). However, and I can’t find it now, last decade Japan was in the process of pushing out Brazilian “migrant” workers, leaving the workers’ children (born and raised in Japan) in a cultural & language limbo.
- jelliclesfarm 6y agoI went to a school with a strict uniform code. The hall monitor would check for well polished shoes(white canvas shoes on mondays, black leather/faux leather rest of the days. The faux leather was a religious exemption, but they didn’t care as long as the girls wore Mary Jane type shoes. Boys had a different design), nails(no long untrimmed nails or polish). Having said that..we had free rein over hair. As long as it was not loose and plaited neatly, any style is fine. We could wear flowers in our hair and earrings as this was in India and there were social/cultural/religious reasons for girls wearing jewelery, flowers and even henna on our hands. Also: Fridays were non uniform days for grades 5 and lower. And you can wear anything you want on your birthday..all grades. We still had to march to class and up the stairs from daily outdoor morning assembly(20-30 minutes or so) everyday to the music of a band! Prayer, reading of daily news, thought of the day, school announcements, school sports team announcements and national anthem before dispersing in ‘an orderly fashion’. And by that, I mean..we had to march to class in a line(class lines were in height order) When I tell this to kids these days, they think I am pulling their legs. And I thought my school was being strict!!
- ajkjk 6y agoI wonder: how unpleasant was all of that, as a kid at the time? From an outsider's perspective it sounds tyrannical, but there's also something appealing about a codified environment that looks very different than my own life; it would be an alien adventure to get used to it. Well, for a while, until it starts to feel oppressive. I would certainly have a much greater emotional association with band music if I had been made to march to it as a child.
- jelliclesfarm 6y agoI loved it! I never thought of my school days as oppressive. They were the best days of my life. I had no worries. I could focus on what I wanted and study without distractions. I had adults I could trust. My friends were all like me and there were few squabbles. If anything, it was a tad protective that it was a little bit jarring when I went to college. I never realised that this wasn’t the norm for many until after my school years. I think I missed out on other people skills and didn’t know how to read cues about people who were different than me. I owe everything that I like about myself to my school teachers. They gave me space to explore..the wiggle room was monitored tho’. They gave me structure and expected discipline. Is that tyrannical? I still talk to my old teachers and am in touch with many of my school friends. It’s been almost 30 years and my math teacher still calls me. Another of my favourite teacher just told me on WhatsApp the other day that I shouldn’t waste my idle time during covid. She has given me exercises for vocal music and I have to sing for her every weekend. I will never be old. I am in California now and a healthy number of my classmates are in the Bay Area. We meet often. I am not under any illusion that my life was perfect, but I only remember the good parts. It was certainly not unpleasant. College was different. I went to a Jesuit institution run by Irish Catholic nuns that unfortunately happened to be the same one my mother went to...and the same nuns were still around and kept calling my mother who ended up being in a bad mood after one or the other would complain about me. Otoh, it amused me to see my mother so rattled because they were able to get that adult in my life so uncomfortable and squirmy with just one unblinking glance. I still laugh out loud when I think about it. My mother..on the other hand..remains unamused.
- umvi 6y agoIs it just me, or is this a counter to the HN article earlier that "Japan isn't homogeneous"? Reminds me of other quirks in Japan like when customer-facing women were banned from wearing glasses[0] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50342714 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50342714
- 0dayz 6y agoDon't know which article were talking about since there is a couple of articles saying that. Ethnically Japan isn't homogeneous (almost no country is), culturally it depends. I think their stance on LGBT says it all, no one cares if you're gay/trans, until you announce that you intend to have a long standing relationship, then people especially family will care a lot (negatively). Because you go against societies own mandate, of family before yourself. China has a more extreme version of that.
- umvi 6y agoThis was the HN thread I was referring to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25883680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25883680
- sthnblllII 6y agoBackground on the business organizing this. Sounds like a daycare facility: >In Japan, NPO Florence has profited from competent business models and reinvested that profit into solving children’s social issues, all while still providing decent remuneration to its staff. https://globisinsights.com/mba-essentials/critical-questioning-qa3/ https://globisinsights.com/mba-essentials/critical-questioni... >Our Vision - Society fulfilled with smiles of diverse families >Zero waiting children for nursery school. All the mothers can continue their work. >Assist parents (mothers in particular) to remain in the workforce https://florence.or.jp/english/ https://florence.or.jp/english/
- bdz 6y agoYet I'd still rather live in Japan then in the US