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It's a really worrying trend that these dangerous challenges gain so much popularity on social media. I wonder what's in the center of this trend. Are we someho

It's a really worrying trend that these dangerous challenges gain so much popularity on social media. I wonder what's in the center of this trend. Are we somehow getting dumber as a species or are some other factors at play.

simonh 6y ago
We're not getting dumber I'm afraid, it's just getting more visible.
simion314 6y ago
IMO children were always like this, not thinking about risks. I remember how many risky things I done with my bike and we never listen and always played football on the street, and now this feels to me like as children we are somehow blind to this risks.
- layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
  My parents were progressive - they considered me and my brother as little adults basically, and they’ve educated us on many serious topics early on (sex, contraception, drugs, death). Adults were always amazed how well-behaved and mature me and my brother were. But we still did stupid and dangerous stuff as adolescents, like playing with fireworks, making lighters explode, huffing nitrous crackers, smoking, cycling around drunk, painting graffiti, etc. There’s really nothing parents can do, other than pray for the best.
  - tremon 6y ago
    There’s really nothing parents can do, other than pray for the best. I wish this attitude was more prevalent, both among parents and lawmakers. More and more, it seems we're legislating against any possible turn of fate that could happen, and both personal freedom and a sense of personal responsibility suffer for it.
  - chokeartist 6y ago
    > But we still did stupid and dangerous stuff as adolescents, like playing with fireworks, making lighters explode, huffing nitrous crackers, smoking, cycling around drunk, painting graffiti, etc. Lol sounds like we had a common background. There were so many close calls looking back that I just shake my head and am thankful no one ever got seriously hurt.
- rgoulter 6y ago
  Sure. But I would believe social media exasperates this. With social media, you're not just showing how brave you are with a stupid dare compared to a few of your friends, but competing against the most dangerous thing you've seen.
  - simion314 6y ago
    I think the effects could be larger but the children are not more dumb because of the media. I am sure similar stupid things were done in the past but you would not known that some child in a far away country died because of a stupid challenge. Maybe off topic, but some of the risky stuff I done with my bike were when I was alone and were not to show of, it was all about going fast or going fast on dangerous path or just not paying attention.
- avereveard 6y ago
  > children were always like this however we're in a somewhat novel situation as mistake past will follow you in caches and meme dumps for years and years, well into adulthood. sure it's comparable to having had a bad reputation back in the days before internet, but you could just escape it by changing town or correct it if your social circle was small enough. with internet, no such luck, getting past one's young self mistake is going to be quite harder.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    The internet equivalent of skipping town is deleting all your accounts and signing up for new ones, perhaps on other platforms.
    - amelius 6y ago
      This might be a difficult thing to do, though, for someone who is addicted, and deeply invested in different online relationships.
    - avereveard 6y ago
      you're stuck at a 199x model of internet social interactions, these company are posing as stand in replacement for personal interactions and as such are trying their hardest (and succeeding, even, especially in the younger population with is the subject of this discussion) in registering people with their true identities.
      - yorwba 6y ago
        That makes the similarity to physical social interactions stronger, not weaker. Most people live their offline lives under their true identities.
        avereveard 6y ago
        The image you phisically project in other people head is a) ephemeral b) local c) not indexed and d) inaccessible from unrelated third parties I can't believe I've to explain this...
- matwood 6y ago
  I grew up mostly before the internet and we did lots of stupid things as kids, including this exact black out stunt. What I think social media has done though is push people beyond their normal internal brakes. You and your friends might push each other to do risky things, but friends tend to care about one another internally. Anonymous people on the internet don't know you or really care about you, so it's easier for them to push people into riskier situations.
danielrpa 6y ago
Social media algorithms can exploit weaknesses in our bodies and minds, presenting a threat for which evolution hasn't prepared us. The kids like it exactly because it's dangerous and can make them feel older and "cool". Ultimately, the powerful, data-driven algorithm discovered that and showed the video, among certainly others, to optimize some engagement metric for the poor little girl.
Out_of_Characte 6y ago
I think people need a reminder of what the internet really is. anyone anywhere can start a website with questionable content and people. It was your own responsibility to deal with the information you voluntarily searched in an apropriate manner. Now the internet feels like a honeytrap with how safe and moderated everything seems. The same goes for kids for example. It is normalised that they are allowed to be on the internet yet seemingly no one actually thought trough what the implications are.
djohnston 6y ago
This challenge was around in the early 2000's, probably before. I don't think anything has really changed it's just a new app so journalists can write new articles. Is there any evidence this challenge is more popular now than it was 15 years ago? This seems like another case of Politician's Syllogism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism
- usrusr 6y ago
  Well, pretty much everything you can do alone at home would be more popular now than 15 years ago. But the general pattern of kids bonding over imitation and acknowledging an informal hierarchy via imitation order is certainly not new at all.
- __s 6y ago
  For more info on how this activity has existed for awhile, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game
- psyc 6y ago
  We used to do this in middle school. That was 30 years ago. We used to do it a lot. You stumble around on autopilot talking gibberish. The world looks like that shadow world Frodo goes to when he puts the ring on. Then you come to on the ground with short term amnesia. You can see how 11 year olds would think it was awesome. I didn’t know it was dangerous until my dad found out and completely lost it with me.
- klyrs 6y ago
  I discovered the effect all by myself. I noticed that I could deliberately make my face beet red (as a ginger, the effect was quite drastic). It was hilarious to my peers, but I was always the wild one, so it was a spectator activity for them. One day, I clenched too hard, or too long, passed out, and fell to the ground. I got up quick as I could, brushed it off... but never did it again. So in a sense, yeah, I'd bet that kids have been doing this "forever." OTOH, what's missing from my story is the peer pressure (albeit their amusement encouraging me) and the network effect. Social media can transmit memetic disease faster than we've ever seen. Is social media to blame for this behavior? Hell no. Does social media aggravate the situation? Without question.
usrusr 6y ago
The ruthless attention economy on the networks. It's not inherently dangerous, many participants get by perfectly fine competing for attention with other things than outdoing each other in dangerous stupidity, but some don't know a better way. And the participatory nature of the "challenge" pattern spreads it to the less desperate. Remember "planking"?
amelius 6y ago
> Are we somehow getting dumber as a species or are some other factors at play. Perhaps one problem is that we now have a front row seat in Darwin's theater. When stuff like this happened in the past, it resulted in a small article in a local newspaper, at most. The internet makes us think that this stuff is happening all the time, when in fact it isn't really.
MayeulC 6y ago
To add to other replies, the population is growing. Also, there might be less children proportionately (is "peak children" behind us in absolute numbers?), and survivability is higher, making these dumb games proportionally more visible. Of course, social media doesn't help. Firstly, for visibility. Secondly, everyone now has more connections to "dumb" friends, and a direct window into their lives. Lastly, current attention-focused recommendation algorithms often promote shocking, attention-grabing content, which makes such things both more visible, and likely to go viral. It also rewards sharing such content: more prominently displayed, it is more likely to "get likes", and fuels the pool of attention-grabbing posts the platform can use. Today's social media is full of perverse incentives, for a very marginal benefit to its users (even if that might not be obvious to them, as they are led to believe the contrary).
powerapple 6y ago
On the contrary, this is exactly how each generation exceeds previous generation. As human, we were allowed to explore freely, risk taking and try different things. Sometimes the outlet of this exploration is this kind of game, sometimes it is something amazing, unfortunately you cannot separate them.

simonh 6y ago

We're not getting dumber I'm afraid, it's just getting more visible.

simion314 6y ago

IMO children were always like this, not thinking about risks. I remember how many risky things I done with my bike and we never listen and always played football on the street, and now this feels to me like as children we are somehow blind to this risks.

layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
My parents were progressive - they considered me and my brother as little adults basically, and they’ve educated us on many serious topics early on (sex, contraception, drugs, death). Adults were always amazed how well-behaved and mature me and my brother were. But we still did stupid and dangerous stuff as adolescents, like playing with fireworks, making lighters explode, huffing nitrous crackers, smoking, cycling around drunk, painting graffiti, etc. There’s really nothing parents can do, other than pray for the best.
- tremon 6y ago
  There’s really nothing parents can do, other than pray for the best. I wish this attitude was more prevalent, both among parents and lawmakers. More and more, it seems we're legislating against any possible turn of fate that could happen, and both personal freedom and a sense of personal responsibility suffer for it.
- chokeartist 6y ago
  > But we still did stupid and dangerous stuff as adolescents, like playing with fireworks, making lighters explode, huffing nitrous crackers, smoking, cycling around drunk, painting graffiti, etc. Lol sounds like we had a common background. There were so many close calls looking back that I just shake my head and am thankful no one ever got seriously hurt.
rgoulter 6y ago
Sure. But I would believe social media exasperates this. With social media, you're not just showing how brave you are with a stupid dare compared to a few of your friends, but competing against the most dangerous thing you've seen.
- simion314 6y ago
  I think the effects could be larger but the children are not more dumb because of the media. I am sure similar stupid things were done in the past but you would not known that some child in a far away country died because of a stupid challenge. Maybe off topic, but some of the risky stuff I done with my bike were when I was alone and were not to show of, it was all about going fast or going fast on dangerous path or just not paying attention.
avereveard 6y ago
> children were always like this however we're in a somewhat novel situation as mistake past will follow you in caches and meme dumps for years and years, well into adulthood. sure it's comparable to having had a bad reputation back in the days before internet, but you could just escape it by changing town or correct it if your social circle was small enough. with internet, no such luck, getting past one's young self mistake is going to be quite harder.
- yorwba 6y ago
  The internet equivalent of skipping town is deleting all your accounts and signing up for new ones, perhaps on other platforms.
  - amelius 6y ago
    This might be a difficult thing to do, though, for someone who is addicted, and deeply invested in different online relationships.
  - avereveard 6y ago
    you're stuck at a 199x model of internet social interactions, these company are posing as stand in replacement for personal interactions and as such are trying their hardest (and succeeding, even, especially in the younger population with is the subject of this discussion) in registering people with their true identities.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      That makes the similarity to physical social interactions stronger, not weaker. Most people live their offline lives under their true identities.
      - avereveard 6y ago
        The image you phisically project in other people head is a) ephemeral b) local c) not indexed and d) inaccessible from unrelated third parties I can't believe I've to explain this...
matwood 6y ago
I grew up mostly before the internet and we did lots of stupid things as kids, including this exact black out stunt. What I think social media has done though is push people beyond their normal internal brakes. You and your friends might push each other to do risky things, but friends tend to care about one another internally. Anonymous people on the internet don't know you or really care about you, so it's easier for them to push people into riskier situations.

danielrpa 6y ago

Social media algorithms can exploit weaknesses in our bodies and minds, presenting a threat for which evolution hasn't prepared us. The kids like it exactly because it's dangerous and can make them feel older and "cool". Ultimately, the powerful, data-driven algorithm discovered that and showed the video, among certainly others, to optimize some engagement metric for the poor little girl.

Out_of_Characte 6y ago

I think people need a reminder of what the internet really is. anyone anywhere can start a website with questionable content and people. It was your own responsibility to deal with the information you voluntarily searched in an apropriate manner. Now the internet feels like a honeytrap with how safe and moderated everything seems. The same goes for kids for example. It is normalised that they are allowed to be on the internet yet seemingly no one actually thought trough what the implications are.

djohnston 6y ago

This challenge was around in the early 2000's, probably before. I don't think anything has really changed it's just a new app so journalists can write new articles. Is there any evidence this challenge is more popular now than it was 15 years ago? This seems like another case of Politician's Syllogism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

usrusr 6y ago
Well, pretty much everything you can do alone at home would be more popular now than 15 years ago. But the general pattern of kids bonding over imitation and acknowledging an informal hierarchy via imitation order is certainly not new at all.
__s 6y ago
For more info on how this activity has existed for awhile, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game
psyc 6y ago
We used to do this in middle school. That was 30 years ago. We used to do it a lot. You stumble around on autopilot talking gibberish. The world looks like that shadow world Frodo goes to when he puts the ring on. Then you come to on the ground with short term amnesia. You can see how 11 year olds would think it was awesome. I didn’t know it was dangerous until my dad found out and completely lost it with me.
klyrs 6y ago
I discovered the effect all by myself. I noticed that I could deliberately make my face beet red (as a ginger, the effect was quite drastic). It was hilarious to my peers, but I was always the wild one, so it was a spectator activity for them. One day, I clenched too hard, or too long, passed out, and fell to the ground. I got up quick as I could, brushed it off... but never did it again. So in a sense, yeah, I'd bet that kids have been doing this "forever." OTOH, what's missing from my story is the peer pressure (albeit their amusement encouraging me) and the network effect. Social media can transmit memetic disease faster than we've ever seen. Is social media to blame for this behavior? Hell no. Does social media aggravate the situation? Without question.

usrusr 6y ago

The ruthless attention economy on the networks. It's not inherently dangerous, many participants get by perfectly fine competing for attention with other things than outdoing each other in dangerous stupidity, but some don't know a better way. And the participatory nature of the "challenge" pattern spreads it to the less desperate. Remember "planking"?

amelius 6y ago

> Are we somehow getting dumber as a species or are some other factors at play. Perhaps one problem is that we now have a front row seat in Darwin's theater. When stuff like this happened in the past, it resulted in a small article in a local newspaper, at most. The internet makes us think that this stuff is happening all the time, when in fact it isn't really.

MayeulC 6y ago

To add to other replies, the population is growing. Also, there might be less children proportionately (is "peak children" behind us in absolute numbers?), and survivability is higher, making these dumb games proportionally more visible. Of course, social media doesn't help. Firstly, for visibility. Secondly, everyone now has more connections to "dumb" friends, and a direct window into their lives. Lastly, current attention-focused recommendation algorithms often promote shocking, attention-grabing content, which makes such things both more visible, and likely to go viral. It also rewards sharing such content: more prominently displayed, it is more likely to "get likes", and fuels the pool of attention-grabbing posts the platform can use. Today's social media is full of perverse incentives, for a very marginal benefit to its users (even if that might not be obvious to them, as they are led to believe the contrary).

powerapple 6y ago

On the contrary, this is exactly how each generation exceeds previous generation. As human, we were allowed to explore freely, risk taking and try different things. Sometimes the outlet of this exploration is this kind of game, sometimes it is something amazing, unfortunately you cannot separate them.