5 ms·

The fact that even fox news was onboard with pardoning Julian Assange and then he pardons Levandowski is... well ironic is an understatement. I am failing to fi

The fact that even fox news was onboard with pardoning Julian Assange and then he pardons Levandowski is... well ironic is an understatement. I am failing to find a word that encapsulates my feelings.

thinkingemote 6y ago
I'm not entirely sure that it was possible to pardon Assange as he hasn't been convicted with anything yet? As in , I thought the extradition request was to be sent to USA for a trial.
- adventured 6y ago
  You can pardon people before they're convicted of anything. Trump pardoned Steve Bannon for example and he has not yet been convicted (he has been charged). Assange has been charged with various things by the Feds, which is what Trump would pardon. The floated theory went that Trump could plausibly pardon himself as well, for any likely future charges.
  - astrange 6y ago
    It's questionable if you can pardon yourself or your coconspirators, and you specifically can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. The pardon power is absolute, greater than laws that define specific crimes, and doesn't require accepting guilt or whatever.
    - vharuck 6y ago
      >It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. For a specific example, Jimmy Carter pardoned everyone who dodged the draft for Vietnam[1]. This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people. I think one of the only limits on the pardon power is that it can only apply to past behavior. [1] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/vietnam-war-era-pardon-instructions https://www.justice.gov/pardon/vietnam-war-era-pardon-instru...
      - ghaff 6y ago
        If a president were to do something really nutty like "Everyone now has a clean slate with respect to federal crimes" I suspect the Supreme Court would find some way to invalidate it. Carter's pardon, while controversial, fell into the category of these weren't exactly serial killers and a lot of people in the country were ready to move on.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people. It doesn't actually show that because the legal effect of thar pardon has never been challenged. If no one tries to charge someone subject to a pardon, or that pardon recipient never offers the pardon against the charges, nothing is resolved about the validity and effect of the pardon.
    - Supermancho 6y ago
      > can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for That's because impeachment is a political process, not a judicial proceeding. Clemency does not affect impeachment.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        That may be the rationale for the limit, but the legal reason is because the Constitution expressly limits the pardon power to exclude cases of impeachment.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > you specifically can’t pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. The pardon power applies to offenses against the US “except in cases of impeachment” (Art. II § 2 ¶ 1). This uncontroversially means a pardon cannot affect the process of impeachment in the House and trial on charges of impeachment in the Senate. It is disputed whether it also somehow prevents pardons for criminal charges relating to the same act for which the recipient was impeached. The issue has never come up in a nontheoretical sense, so an authoritative resolution hasn’t been handed down.
  - thinkingemote 6y ago
    Thanks!
  - libria 6y ago
    > You can pardon people before they're convicted of anything. Ford pardoning Nixon is the usual example.
- dabernathy89 6y ago
  The most famous pardon in history - Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon - involved no convictions or charges/indictments: > [I]... do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974. https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740061.asp https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740061.as...
adventured 6y ago
Trump isn't considered a Republican by any of the powerful people in the Republican Party, or most of its big traditional financial backers (the Kochs particularly dislike him). It's why people like Mitch McConnell turned on him when it was clear Trump's power was gone. It's why they did everything they could to prevent him from winning the party nomination in the first place. The other Republican candidates were very weak and Trump sensed that and proceeded to smash them one by one. The comedy of it all, is that Trump running was merely an arrangement with his former pals the Clintons (arranged in a phone conversation with Bill Clinton prior to declaring [1]). He was supposed to just target and knock off Jeb Bush as a favor. The reality TV style name attack gimmick (low energy Jeb, sleepy Joe, etc) worked so well that it became clear there was a runway to the Presidency and he took it. Trump is a populist opportunist narcissist, all in one. Party is irrelevant to him, he isn't a partisan at all. He would have happily run as a Democrat - which is what he was previously - if he could have gotten to the Presidency easier that way. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150819083634/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bill-clinton-called-donald-trump-ahead-of-republicans-2016-launch/2015/08/05/e2b30bb8-3ae3-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150819083634/https://www.washi...
- josefresco 6y ago
  "Trump running was merely an arrangement with his former pals the Clintons" You're reaching.
  - jshevek 6y ago
    I cannot reply to the dead comment, so I'm replying to Jose's. Adventure: if you have any evidence I'd like to see it.
- FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  Take your meds, schizo.
mhh__ 6y ago
I was expecting a pardon for Assange if purely because he did Trump a solid during the campaign. I'm guessing it was killed by the national security types in his administration
- kevinmchugh 6y ago
  > Trump is also not expected to pardon Edward Snowden or Julian Assange, whose roles in revealing US secrets infuriated official Washington. While he had once entertained the idea, Trump decided against it because he did not want to anger Senate Republicans who will soon determine whether he's convicted during his Senate trial. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-warning/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-wa...
masklinn 6y ago
> I am failing to find a word that encapsulates my feelings. I don't know if there's a specific word for it in any language, but it's completely in character for trump to always pick the worst of two choices.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  I believe it's called "4D Chess".
avs733 6y ago
I would imagine pardoning assange was seen as a large risk to trump.
odiroot 6y ago
Wait, but can't Biden pardon Assange now?
rasz 6y ago
Im sure Biden will pardon Assange as the first thing he dos in office. After all its a good change, right?

thinkingemote 6y ago

I'm not entirely sure that it was possible to pardon Assange as he hasn't been convicted with anything yet? As in , I thought the extradition request was to be sent to USA for a trial.

adventured 6y ago
You can pardon people before they're convicted of anything. Trump pardoned Steve Bannon for example and he has not yet been convicted (he has been charged). Assange has been charged with various things by the Feds, which is what Trump would pardon. The floated theory went that Trump could plausibly pardon himself as well, for any likely future charges.
- astrange 6y ago
  It's questionable if you can pardon yourself or your coconspirators, and you specifically can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. The pardon power is absolute, greater than laws that define specific crimes, and doesn't require accepting guilt or whatever.
  - vharuck 6y ago
    >It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. For a specific example, Jimmy Carter pardoned everyone who dodged the draft for Vietnam[1]. This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people. I think one of the only limits on the pardon power is that it can only apply to past behavior. [1] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/vietnam-war-era-pardon-instructions https://www.justice.gov/pardon/vietnam-war-era-pardon-instru...
    - ghaff 6y ago
      If a president were to do something really nutty like "Everyone now has a clean slate with respect to federal crimes" I suspect the Supreme Court would find some way to invalidate it. Carter's pardon, while controversial, fell into the category of these weren't exactly serial killers and a lot of people in the country were ready to move on.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people. It doesn't actually show that because the legal effect of thar pardon has never been challenged. If no one tries to charge someone subject to a pardon, or that pardon recipient never offers the pardon against the charges, nothing is resolved about the validity and effect of the pardon.
  - Supermancho 6y ago
    > can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for That's because impeachment is a political process, not a judicial proceeding. Clemency does not affect impeachment.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      That may be the rationale for the limit, but the legal reason is because the Constitution expressly limits the pardon power to exclude cases of impeachment.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > you specifically can’t pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. The pardon power applies to offenses against the US “except in cases of impeachment” (Art. II § 2 ¶ 1). This uncontroversially means a pardon cannot affect the process of impeachment in the House and trial on charges of impeachment in the Senate. It is disputed whether it also somehow prevents pardons for criminal charges relating to the same act for which the recipient was impeached. The issue has never come up in a nontheoretical sense, so an authoritative resolution hasn’t been handed down.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  Thanks!
- libria 6y ago
  > You can pardon people before they're convicted of anything. Ford pardoning Nixon is the usual example.
dabernathy89 6y ago
The most famous pardon in history - Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon - involved no convictions or charges/indictments: > [I]... do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974. https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740061.asp https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740061.as...

adventured 6y ago

Trump isn't considered a Republican by any of the powerful people in the Republican Party, or most of its big traditional financial backers (the Kochs particularly dislike him). It's why people like Mitch McConnell turned on him when it was clear Trump's power was gone. It's why they did everything they could to prevent him from winning the party nomination in the first place. The other Republican candidates were very weak and Trump sensed that and proceeded to smash them one by one. The comedy of it all, is that Trump running was merely an arrangement with his former pals the Clintons (arranged in a phone conversation with Bill Clinton prior to declaring [1]). He was supposed to just target and knock off Jeb Bush as a favor. The reality TV style name attack gimmick (low energy Jeb, sleepy Joe, etc) worked so well that it became clear there was a runway to the Presidency and he took it. Trump is a populist opportunist narcissist, all in one. Party is irrelevant to him, he isn't a partisan at all. He would have happily run as a Democrat - which is what he was previously - if he could have gotten to the Presidency easier that way. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150819083634/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bill-clinton-called-donald-trump-ahead-of-republicans-2016-launch/2015/08/05/e2b30bb8-3ae3-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150819083634/https://www.washi...

josefresco 6y ago
"Trump running was merely an arrangement with his former pals the Clintons" You're reaching.
- jshevek 6y ago
  I cannot reply to the dead comment, so I'm replying to Jose's. Adventure: if you have any evidence I'd like to see it.
FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Take your meds, schizo.

mhh__ 6y ago

I was expecting a pardon for Assange if purely because he did Trump a solid during the campaign. I'm guessing it was killed by the national security types in his administration

kevinmchugh 6y ago
> Trump is also not expected to pardon Edward Snowden or Julian Assange, whose roles in revealing US secrets infuriated official Washington. While he had once entertained the idea, Trump decided against it because he did not want to anger Senate Republicans who will soon determine whether he's convicted during his Senate trial. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-warning/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-wa...

masklinn 6y ago

> I am failing to find a word that encapsulates my feelings. I don't know if there's a specific word for it in any language, but it's completely in character for trump to always pick the worst of two choices.

BitwiseFool 6y ago
I believe it's called "4D Chess".

avs733 6y ago

I would imagine pardoning assange was seen as a large risk to trump.

odiroot 6y ago

Wait, but can't Biden pardon Assange now?

rasz 6y ago

Im sure Biden will pardon Assange as the first thing he dos in office. After all its a good change, right?