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If I were running something likely to be deplatformed, I would never consider anything but a multi-cloud solution where no single provider is a single point of
by api 6y ago
If I were running something likely to be deplatformed, I would never consider anything but a multi-cloud solution where no single provider is a single point of failure.
It's not that hard to do.
- andomar 6y agoIf you were refused by Amazon, Microsoft, Google and Cloudflare, what alternatives are there?
- justapassenger 6y ago10 years ago no one was running in cloud. Internet still works outside of big tech data centers.
- jasonjayr 6y agoSure, but frequently whole netblocks we blocked because spammers or IP ranges hosting + sending content undesired by the larger community. Peering ISPs would frequently drop routes + messages from whole data centers that would blatantly ignore spam complaints, which would force their hand to kick the offending customers off their platforms that caused harm to their other non-offending customers.
- shiftpgdn 6y agoThere are thousands of colo centers out there that will take your business. Sure you have to buy the hardware up front but in the long run it'll be less expensive. The scary part would be fiber/backbone providers denying you a connection.
- drivingmenuts 6y agoUltimately, this will come down to public vs. private rights. If infrastructure, no matter how vital, is privately funded, what rights are there vs infrastructure that is publicly funded. Further complications are infrastructure that is a mix of the two. Personally, I lean toward private infrastructure being able to set their own rules and if it’s public, then the public sets the rules. I am not sure when it gets to be a mix of the two.
- shiftpgdn 6y agoWhat about peering agreements? What happens when cogent gets de-peered because they host a website accused of thought crimes?
- drivingmenuts 6y agoThe same thing that would happen in other situations. If you and I can’t come to terms, we part ways and don’t do business with each other. If one of us is affected because of that, then one of us needs to reconsider how best to remedy or work around that issue.
- gameswithgo 6y agoepik, apparently. at some point too when you notice that everyone thinks you are horrible maybe the problem is you.
- zarkov99 6y agoYeah, that is a great mental heuristic: the majority is always fair and right. I am sure the Jews thought that back in 1930’s Germany. And the Christians in Rome, the Kolacks in Russia, the intellectuals in Mao's China, the wealthy Cubans when Castro took over and blacks in the US before the civil rights movement.
- yanderekko 6y agoYou grant too much. The people who are making these deplatforming decisions do not represent a majority or anything close to it. Perhaps they believe they will when their cultural revolution is complete and the dust has settled, but that has yet to be seen.
- zarkov99 6y agoUnfortunately they do represent an overwhelming majority of the power in this particular domain.
- klyrs 6y agoFalse equivalence. Freedom to persecute is not equal to freedom from persecution.
- zarkov99 6y agoThe equivalence is not in the persecution but on the validity of an heuristic that that dictates you are an asshole if a powerful majority says you are.
- imwillofficial 6y agoI see Facebook getting right on that.
- nixgeek 6y agoOracle, IBM, Alibaba. On the smaller but still “millions of virtual machines” end of the scale: DigitalOcean, Vultr, Linode. Still have APIs and can give you instances in minutes. Hetzner and OVH also an option for the scale of infrastructure that Parler appears to require, although their “Dedicated Server” offerings (Bare Metal) often take 24-72 hours to deliver to customers. Or one of a thousand places to rent a rack and “DIY” with hardware from a vendor like Dell, HP, Supermicro, Lenovo, ZT, ... Plenty of examples exist of sites which have spent years or even decades online despite being unpopular or illegal, e.g. The Pirate Bay.
- stephankoelle 6y agoHetzner has usually 10 minutes for bare metal.
- nixgeek 6y agoIn all the years I’ve been using them they’ve never hit 10 minutes for my orders. Usually > 4 hours and < 6 hours though on AX and other “standard specification” boxes. On PX where you can specify NVME and other configuration, more like 2-3 days (particularly if the order was placed on a weekend).
- joezydeco 6y agoPeter from The Pirate Bay recently commented on the Parler situation. TLDR: what a bunch of lightweight crybabies... https://twitter.com/brokep/status/1348194329005875203 https://twitter.com/brokep/status/1348194329005875203
- millzlane 6y agoSomeone should ask Peter Sunde. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3an7pn/pirate-bay-founder-thinks-parlers-inability-to-stay-online-is-embarrassing https://www.vice.com/en/article/3an7pn/pirate-bay-founder-th...
- bhhaskin 6y agoIf you still want to remain in the cloud? Shell game. Contract another company to setup and run everything on the cloud side and mask the traffic. Hiding the traffic can be as simple as front end proxies into a VPN to AWS. Or even just SSL traffic. AWS or what ever cloud provider would be none the wiser unless they are actively looking inside everyone's boxes. Which I highly doubt they are.
- ipsocannibal 6y agoPick any country without an extradition treaty with the US and buy rack space there. Parler was easily nuked because its tech was amateur hour not because US cloud providers rule the internet.
- kondro 6y agoGood luck getting your 100Gbps+ sustained (from their actual requirements) of bandwidth in a non-extradition country to your primary audience in the USA.
- ipsocannibal 6y agoCan you link to that requirements doc? I find it hard to believe that Parler required 100Gbps to run and meet a reasonable SLA. Also you can leverage multiple non-extradition jurisdictions to help offload bandwidth requirements while providing a hot spare cell.
- xiphias2 6y agoYandex Cloud, Alibaba, CloudSigma, Hetzner....maywhen it comes to US politics, any non-US country allows more free speech than US itself.
- rvz 6y agoSelf-hosting was a thing 10 - 15 years ago before the cloud hype and it is still an option today especially for those who have no choice but to do it.
- bdcravens 6y agoInvesting in all the infrastructure to build a globally distributed architecture that is resilient? It's almost like we forgot that the web existed before the big cloud vendors. https://techcrunch.com/2012/10/20/facebooks-first-server-cost-85month/ https://techcrunch.com/2012/10/20/facebooks-first-server-cos...
- BlackPlot 6y agoDigital Ocean, VMware,..
- zarkov99 6y agoHindsight and all that. Parler has hosted content no worse than Twitter or Facebook or thousands of other sites. Their banning from AWS could not have been reasonably anticipated. It was an unprecedented act of censorship in response to an unprecedented moment in American history. The world will learn and AWS will likely loose a few customers though not enough to change its policies.
- mschuster91 6y ago> Parler has hosted content no worse than Twitter or Facebook or thousands of other sites. I disagree. There were open calls for murder on the platform where Parler was notified by Apple, by Google, by Amazon - and nothing happened. Which is the key thing here. Twitter and Facebook are extremely fast with the ban-hammer, in contrast.
- imwillofficial 6y agoThis is not true. Not even close.
- cbg0 6y agohttps://www.theverge.com/2021/1/13/22228675/amazon-parler-takedown-violent-threats-moderation-content-free-speech https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/13/22228675/amazon-parler-ta...
- ogre_codes 6y agoAmazon has this documented extensively in their court filings.
- ogre_codes 6y ago> Twitter and Facebook are extremely fast with the ban-hammer, in contrast. Twitter and Facebook have recently grudgingly picked up the ban hammer and use it, often too late or ineffectively. But yes, they will eventually act which is the big difference.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
- threatofrain 6y agoAccording to the CEO of Parler, banks and payment vendors, law firms, text and mail services also cancelled on them. This is why Parler also motivates discussion of alternative currency.
- daniellarusso 6y agoWhat is the product? What do they take payment for?
- Acrobatic_Road 6y agopremium subscriptions, donations, etc
- BlackPlot 6y agoExactly, it's crucial using multi-clouds because you never know when you will breach any clause of ToS. It's not so difficult to manage multiclouds with management tools as Anthos, Azure Arc, of course I would suggest independent like Openshift or CAST AI which pros would be one cluster
- kondro 6y agoI'm not going to go into all the reasons why a multi-cloud solution probably isn't and why multi-cloud is stupendously difficult (and expensive as you move all that data around) for a scaling business. But in a situation like this, a company that's likely to be deplatformed, is likely to be deplatformed everywhere. I've seen a screenshot recently of Parler's hardware requirements (when searching new vendors) and it's somewhere in the vicinity of 15,000 cores with more than 400Gbps (sustained) of internal and 100Gbps of external bandwidth (from memory). The big cloud providers are the only place you can move to when you have those types of requirements (and are still actively growing).
- api 6y agoThat's about 250 bare metal 64-core servers. You can get that elsewhere, and keep in mind per-core performance on bare metal is going to be higher than you get per-core on shared tenant VMs in the cloud (for several reasons). Those bandwidth needs would constrain you only to larger scale bare metal providers though, which would leave you with fewer options. The problem sounds like it would have been database sync between locations, which is a major issue in multi-cloud. Most replicated databases are pretty chatty. You're right though about deplatforming, and the problem is if you are providing a safe haven for a bunch of Nazis like Parler is you are going to be constantly DDOSed. That means you need a lot of DDOS protection, and high end DDOS protection is a significantly smaller market with fewer players than just raw rack-em-and-stack-em hosting.
- Traubenfuchs 6y agoMulticloud? The cool kids call it polynimbus.