6 ms·

Every time this sort of thing comes up (the Fermi Paradox, the Great Silence) I like to point out that it says more about the person than the real world. To wi

Every time this sort of thing comes up (the Fermi Paradox, the Great Silence) I like to point out that it says more about the person than the real world. To wit: there is no time or culture in the history of the world where humans have not been in contact with some kind of "otherworldly" intelligence. Personally, (not that anyone asked) I think we're in quarantine. I think that most intelligent species rapidly reach a peaceful "win-win" equilibrium, that we humans are rare or even unique in our violence, that this is because of some specific but forgotten event (maybe the Younger Dryas, I don't know) that traumatized us and triggered the development of agriculture and cities, that those are degenerate forms of civilization that perpetrate the trauma that leads to our current malfunctions, and that we are essentially in a hospice-type situation vis-à-vis the little green men. So, um, there? Have a nice day y'all.

Izkata 6y ago
> I think that most intelligent species rapidly reach a peaceful "win-win" equilibrium, that we humans are rare or even unique in our violence This reminds me of a short story where Earth exists in a Bermuda Triangle-like sector of space, known as the Veil of Madness, that all other civilizations avoid: https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind
oli5679 6y ago
I was more open-minded to this type of argument a few decades ago. The quality of our sensors - both smartphones held by everyone, and telescopes, satellites and radar by governments has improved exponentially, without a corresponding increase in detection, so I think it's reasonably likely we are not currently in contact with otherworldly intelligence. Once I made this argument to a friend, and they sent me this xkcd comic. https://xkcd.com/1235/ https://xkcd.com/1235/
- shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  Unless the aliens stopped showing up because we've developed smartphones, and they were showing up so often in the 1900s because they knew it was their last shot of dorking around with plausible deniability before camera and telecomm tech became mainstream! The tin foil always finds a way.
- postalrat 6y ago
  > without a corresponding increase in detection How many detections have we had? The camera argument to me is ignorant of how hard it is to get a good picture of something small in the sky. People are constantly taking videos of dots they say was a UFO but it's impossible to identify what they captured.
- carapace 6y ago
  > without a corresponding increase in detection With respect, have you gone and looked? To me it feels like the folks who present that objection haven't actually gone and checked, they're making an unfounded assumption. About once or twice a year I lose a day to a youtube hole wherein I go through all the recent videos of {Bigfoot,UFOs,Cryptids,Ghosts} for fun. There's a lot of crap out there, fake videos and hoaxes, but there are more and more very good candidates for "real" videos. The US Navy just released video of UFOs buzzing jets off the coast, eh?
  - oli5679 6y ago
    The US navy videos it's hard to tell what these are. The picture is so grainy, a lot of the interest comes from the vivid eyewitness accounts. I have looked at some accounts, for example listened to Lex Fridman interview with one of the Navy pilots. To me, I need a photographic evidence that isn't some blurry smudge. If you start going down the eyewitness testimony route then you get some evidence for saints/miracles and also ghosts that meets similar criteria. The phenomena reported in eyewitness statements in the 60s-80s at least some seems possible to capture with satellite/phone camera. It's possible that UFOs more cautious now or government is surpressing this but I take the lack of clear photograpic evidence as a reason to update beliefs.
raldi 6y ago
Could you explain your second sentence a bit further?
- carapace 6y ago
  You mean this? > there is no time or culture in the history of the world where humans have not been in contact with some kind of "otherworldly" intelligence. If so, I'm just pointing out that communication with other non-human beings is common to all human cultures. Every culture has people who communicate with angels or spirits or people from the sky or under the ground or some other realm, sometimes those folks are central to the culture, other times they are peripheral. I think our modern rational materialist fundamentalists are the first to seriously posit the idea that humans are strictly alone in the Universe.
  - cgrealy 6y ago
    > Every culture has people who believe they communicate with angels or spirits or people from the sky... FTFY There is zero actual evidence of anyone communicating with any non-human intelligences.
    - carapace 6y ago
      > There is zero actual evidence of anyone communicating with any non-human intelligences. And that is your belief. Here's a whole documentary about interactions between Brazilian military and something weird: > In 1977, numerous UFOs were seen in the Brazilian city of Colares, Pará. The UFOs fired light beams at people, causing injuries and sucking blood from 400 witnesses. After a rise in local concern, the mayor of the city requested help from the Air Force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkmRsEBOY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkmRsEBOY0
      - unanswered 6y ago
        No no, you see, when a scientismist/materialist believes something, that makes it true. Unlike when anyone else believes anything! What else is "truth" supposed to mean?

Izkata 6y ago

> I think that most intelligent species rapidly reach a peaceful "win-win" equilibrium, that we humans are rare or even unique in our violence This reminds me of a short story where Earth exists in a Bermuda Triangle-like sector of space, known as the Veil of Madness, that all other civilizations avoid: https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind

oli5679 6y ago

I was more open-minded to this type of argument a few decades ago. The quality of our sensors - both smartphones held by everyone, and telescopes, satellites and radar by governments has improved exponentially, without a corresponding increase in detection, so I think it's reasonably likely we are not currently in contact with otherworldly intelligence. Once I made this argument to a friend, and they sent me this xkcd comic. https://xkcd.com/1235/ https://xkcd.com/1235/

shrimp_emoji 6y ago
Unless the aliens stopped showing up because we've developed smartphones, and they were showing up so often in the 1900s because they knew it was their last shot of dorking around with plausible deniability before camera and telecomm tech became mainstream! The tin foil always finds a way.
postalrat 6y ago
> without a corresponding increase in detection How many detections have we had? The camera argument to me is ignorant of how hard it is to get a good picture of something small in the sky. People are constantly taking videos of dots they say was a UFO but it's impossible to identify what they captured.
carapace 6y ago
> without a corresponding increase in detection With respect, have you gone and looked? To me it feels like the folks who present that objection haven't actually gone and checked, they're making an unfounded assumption. About once or twice a year I lose a day to a youtube hole wherein I go through all the recent videos of {Bigfoot,UFOs,Cryptids,Ghosts} for fun. There's a lot of crap out there, fake videos and hoaxes, but there are more and more very good candidates for "real" videos. The US Navy just released video of UFOs buzzing jets off the coast, eh?
- oli5679 6y ago
  The US navy videos it's hard to tell what these are. The picture is so grainy, a lot of the interest comes from the vivid eyewitness accounts. I have looked at some accounts, for example listened to Lex Fridman interview with one of the Navy pilots. To me, I need a photographic evidence that isn't some blurry smudge. If you start going down the eyewitness testimony route then you get some evidence for saints/miracles and also ghosts that meets similar criteria. The phenomena reported in eyewitness statements in the 60s-80s at least some seems possible to capture with satellite/phone camera. It's possible that UFOs more cautious now or government is surpressing this but I take the lack of clear photograpic evidence as a reason to update beliefs.

raldi 6y ago

Could you explain your second sentence a bit further?

carapace 6y ago
You mean this? > there is no time or culture in the history of the world where humans have not been in contact with some kind of "otherworldly" intelligence. If so, I'm just pointing out that communication with other non-human beings is common to all human cultures. Every culture has people who communicate with angels or spirits or people from the sky or under the ground or some other realm, sometimes those folks are central to the culture, other times they are peripheral. I think our modern rational materialist fundamentalists are the first to seriously posit the idea that humans are strictly alone in the Universe.
- cgrealy 6y ago
  > Every culture has people who believe they communicate with angels or spirits or people from the sky... FTFY There is zero actual evidence of anyone communicating with any non-human intelligences.
  - carapace 6y ago
    > There is zero actual evidence of anyone communicating with any non-human intelligences. And that is your belief. Here's a whole documentary about interactions between Brazilian military and something weird: > In 1977, numerous UFOs were seen in the Brazilian city of Colares, Pará. The UFOs fired light beams at people, causing injuries and sucking blood from 400 witnesses. After a rise in local concern, the mayor of the city requested help from the Air Force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkmRsEBOY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkmRsEBOY0
    - unanswered 6y ago
      No no, you see, when a scientismist/materialist believes something, that makes it true. Unlike when anyone else believes anything! What else is "truth" supposed to mean?