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The Dubai Lamp: The “World’s Most Efficient” LED Light Bulb
- anovikov 6y agoAnd what is the catch? That's almost 30% light efficiency. Hard to believe.
- MrGilbert 6y agoI think this one here appeared because it's been featured on hackaday recently[1], which got featured there because Youtube channel "bigclivedotcom" made a video about them[2], which blew through the roof because of some Youtube-algorithm-doodads? Compared to his recent other videos, this really stands out in terms of views. (Although I can really recommend the channel). Anyways, the main thing is that these lamps use more filament-strips than usual led bulb, thus allowing them to run cooler and last longer. Unfortunately, they are only available in Dubai (afaik). [1]: https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-lights-you-cant-buy/ https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-li... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4
- 51Cards 6y agoCost to manufacture, 4x the LED modules and better supply circuitry. Upsides: LEDs driven at very low current last "forever", more light, less waste heat. Downsides: price to manufacture, and manufacturers preferring to make the typical ones that over-drive and burn out the LEDs so you have to buy replacements.
- ars 6y ago> so you have to buy replacements. They are rated for 15,000 hours, and so are regular LEDs. The solution is very simple: Return any LED that doesn't last the specified time. Manufactures will very rapidly start making changes if everyone did that. You can just write the installation date with a Sharpie on the bulb, or keep track of them in a spreadsheet. I've been doing it for a couple years now, and based on my data I don't think I'll ever need to buy a bulb again. My bulbs last around 1,000 hours, not even remotely close to the promised 15,000 hours. So I just return them and get new ones.
- carlob 6y ago1,000 is really really low. Could it be something to do with your socket position and how they dissipate heat?
- ryan_j_naughton 6y agoHow do you return them? Through the manufacturer or the store? Wouldn't the return window be passed so it is now a warranty claim, right?
- muststopmyths 6y agoI had some FEIT brand LEDs stop working after a few months. I sent them email and promptly got a response. I had to answer some questions about the use, and they sent me a box of new bulbs. Never asked me for proof of purchase either. Replaced bulbs have worked fine for a few years now.
- gambiting 6y agoI've been returning bulbs to amazon for years this exact way, even if the bulb is out of "warranty". I just go on the chat, say "the bulb packaging says it will last 15k hours, it hasn't even been 15k hours since I bought it, much less 15k hours of use, so it's misleading advertising". They just accept a return&refund 100% of the time. Amazon is too big to care.
- oasisbob 6y ago> The solution is very simple: Return any LED that doesn't last the specified time. Manufactures will very rapidly start making changes if everyone did that. Agreed. I think this is why Energy Star rated LED lamps require such a long warranty. Eg, Philips Hue products have a two year warranty, unless they carry an Energy Star, in which case it's three.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago2 years is a pretty short warranty, it's the mandated minimum for electronics in EU law AIUI.
- baybal2 6y ago> 4x the LED modules LEDs themselves are very cheap. For individual LEDs, the cost of the package costs more than the LED itself.
- dasv 6y agoThey are much more expensive to manufacture, since they are achieving that level of efficiency by using more LEDs and undervolting them, around four times the amount of a normal lamp. Big Clive did a complete teardown and reverse engineering in his youtube channel, if you are interested.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoDidn't he say they cost £4-£7 in Dubai. That's pretty cheap for a bulb of it works for 30 years. See 6m55s in the video.
- emilecantin 6y agoThey're more expensive to manufacture. They basically triple the number of LED "filaments" you'd find in a similarly-rated bulb, allowing them to run everything well below "max" spec, reducing heat (increasing longevity) and allowing the LEDs to operate at a much more efficient point (less lumens per individual LED, but drastically lower consumption).
- gruez 6y ago>They basically triple the number of LED "filaments" you'd find in a similarly-rated bulb Does it last 3x longer?
- scotty79 6y agoMight last even longer because driving leds at 1/3 of the current might extend their lives more than 3 times (or less but unlikely).
- emilecantin 6y agoYes, but it's not a linear relationship. The gain in longevity is via thermal gains, which reduces the likelihood of component failure. It might be 3x, it might be 10x. You'd get the same (longevity) gains from taking a "regular" LED bulb and running it at lower power. You'd get less light output, though.
- minitoar 6y agoNominally yes, but they also use more expensive control circuitry.
- tialaramex 6y agoThey're more expensive to make as others explained. My guess is it's very difficult to make money with superior products in this sort of consumer market without government to force a level playing field where your competitors are obliged to offer a genuinely better product and/or better price to make the sale.
- destitude 6y agoLast time this came up it sounded like they were only allowed to sell them within Dubai itself? Are they available in North America yet?
- g051051 6y agoRecent Big Clive video discussing this lamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago> These lamps are currently only available in Dubai. The likelihood of them appearing elsewhere is limited by the fact that they are designed to last a long time, which isn't profitable for the manufacturers. Just incredibly sad.
- lodi 6y agoIsn't this already a "problem" with ordinary LED's though? For instance, I have the following first world problem: I bought a set of (newer, nicer) LED's to replace older bulbs as they burn out, but they've just been sitting in my closet for 4 years because not a single bulb has burned out since I moved in!
- destitude 6y agoThere are plenty of junk LED bulbs on Amazon for instance. I got some Amazon Basic LED bulbs and a couple of them didn't even last a year.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoI'm going to guess you didn't send them back for free replacements? And, guess again that the reason is "it's not worth the hassle [ie cost is greater than my time is worth]". We should be punishing product manufacturers whose products fall in the bottom quartile of life expectancy - returns by Freepost (receiver pays the postage) and get £10 compensation + money back or replacement. Perhaps then we could start addressing some of the planned obsolescence in low value goods.
- smolder 6y agoIMHO, you should have moved the existing bulbs to the closet for if/when the new ones fail, so you can enjoy your upgrade. :) To answer your question, it really depends. If they run cool, are a good design, and aren't defective, they will last incredibly long. Often, one or more of those things isn't true.
- noisy_boy 6y agoWhere I live, the lowest I've seen in 10 watts and that's too bright for my taste - hopefully these are widely available soon.
- abhinav22 6y agoI am from Dubai, this is great to see.
- Torkel 6y agoThe reliability of LED lights is, from my experience, crazy bad. We installed all-LED lighting in the office. Over the past two years way over 50% of the LED lamps have died. Yesterday I ordered yet another batch of 25 new LED lamps. The office isn't even all that big, just four rooms. And this is without dimmers. In the hallway, where there is a dimmer, the LED lamps (that are marked as supporting use with dimmer) dies after only a few months. Our hallway is dark at the moment, because it is just too much effort to replace the lamps. IMHO the biggest boost for LED lamps would be for the longevity ratings to at least somewhat correlate with real world life time...
- destitude 6y agoYou have to be careful of all the LED lights being produced as cheaply as possible by many manufacturers. I would think somewhere there is a website listing reliability of some of these manufacturer's LED lights.
- kevindong 6y agoOut of curiosity, what's the exact product you bought? And do you keep your bulbs on 24/7? The mass market, "budget" (really, the baseline bulbs that most people buy; ~$1.25/bulb) LED bulbs are usually rated for around 10,000 hours of on-time (which is ~1.14 years). The mass market, higher end bulbs (namely from Cree; ~$2.50/bulb) are rated for around 20,000-25,000 hours of on-time (~2.28 and ~2.85 years, respectively).
- quickthrowman 6y agoCommercial grade LED fixtures that don’t have replaceable lamps are generally rated for 50,000 hours. Swapping fixtures is the best way to do it, imo.
- phil21 6y agoYep. Especially for can lighting. Don't bother buying PAR13 LED bulbs, you will likely have a medium time at best. I have about 50+ el-cheapo Feit LED can fixtures from Costco installed in my house now for over 3 years without a single failure. Previously there would be a PAR13 bulb failure at least once a month. The downside of course is no bulb-change-with-a-stick, but since we're talking 20 minutes of pulling a ladder out every 4 (or more!) years to replace a $20 fixture vs. 5 minutes once a month for a $5 bulbs I'm pretty happy.
- mrpopo 6y agoRe. "commitment of sustainability" Dubai is a city of over 3-million in the middle of the Arabian desert. They have air-conditioned bus stops, even though they are under-utilized because everyone drives. Nothing in Dubai is sustainable. Changing LED lamps is Dubai in the name of sustainability is the very embodiment of greenwashing. This is cool tech, but it's absolutely pointless. Edit: I didn't mention the elephant in the room that the entire country's economy is based on cheap fossil fuel extraction.
- samstave 6y agoThey are more than likely just trying to lower the overall power sink that the city pulls as it grows. Obviously the massive buildings and projects are going to be using a shit-ton of power and I don't know where dubai gets its power from - but it is most likely limited... so this is a good thing for that infrastructure. I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. I wonder how many datacenters are in dubai. We bought a new house this year, and replaced all the lights with LED lights - and our power bill is really low. in 2001 when the Enron fiasco happened, I received a power bill for $900 for one month, and my usage behavior didn't change from previous months. It was during the dot com crash and I wasn't working - and I couldnt pay the bill had my power shut off and had to borrow money from my parents to pay the criminals. So I am very power conscious...
- Havoc 6y ago> I have a friend who lives in dubai, Ill ask her about where their power comes from as well.. Oil as well I believe. Also the water is reverse osmosis derived. Which also requires a fair bit of power
- kissickas 6y agoOne underreported angle of the blockade of Qatar was the fact that Qatar continued to supply the UAE with natural gas throughout the several-year affair. > It pumps around 2 Bcm of gas per day to the UAE. http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-shut-dolphin-gas-pipeline-to-uae-despite-rift.aspx http://www.gasprocessingnews.com/news/qatar-has-no-plan-to-s...
- maxekman 6y agoI would suggest we all contact Philips and asks them to make these bulbs wider available. https://www.usa.philips.com/c-w/support-home/support-contact-page https://www.usa.philips.com/c-w/support-home/support-contact... Go to products->lighting. Here is a direct link to the Swedish form: https://www.lighting.philips.se/support/kontakt/kontakta-oss/kontakta-oss https://www.lighting.philips.se/support/kontakt/kontakta-oss...
- Sunspark 6y agoI don't use a single LED or CCFL in my home as a lightbulb replacement. The reason is because I like a more natural color spectrum not one with spikes in specific bands. The other reason is because they flicker. Flickering can be addressed by running LEDs in DC mode and CCFLs with electronic ballasts, but both costs a little bit more money and our current society is geared for the cheapest possible product which means you have to skimp on components. Color spectrum can be addressed by adding more phosphors (more expensive) to CCFLs. With LEDs it can be addressed by not using only blue leds with a yellow phosphor and calling it "white". True RGB LEDs are more expensive. Every time I visit my folks place which doesn't use incandescent anymore, I am always struck by how dull and desaturated it looks because of the energy-efficient lighting. There is more to lighting than energy-efficiency, there is also health to consider. Our bodies didn't evolve under a flickering light source and they also didn't evolve under narrowband color spectrums.
- beervirus 6y agoIs this comment from a decade ago? If you buy a nice LED bulb these days, it doesn't flicker, and its spectrum is indistinguishable from incandescent to the human eye.
- lodi 6y agoI've been happy with these dimmable, warm LEDs. No flicker that I can detect, and they look really nice at a low setting. https://www.amazon.com/Philips-536532-Dimmable-X-Filament-Effect/dp/B07KQSGXS4/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=philips+soft+white+led&qid=1610984791&sr=8-7 https://www.amazon.com/Philips-536532-Dimmable-X-Filament-Ef...
- llampx 6y agoFirst of all, CRI can be measured and you can buy lamps with high CRI. Secondly, sorry but even if an incandescent or halogen has high CRI, it makes everything look yellow and consumes a lot of energy. It is much easier to make high CRI LED fixtures than to make incandescent lamps more energy-efficient.
- crmd 6y agoThis does not match my experience. I bought 12 Philips Hue bulbs in June of 2013. They run an average of 15 hours per day across three color/brightness profiles, and in these 7.5 years only one has failed.
- ashtonkem 6y agoI suspect we’re starting to hit diminishing returns when it comes to lighting. Probably better if we start pouring research into how to better electrify our heating and transit needs (AC is already electrified and very efficient).
- opensmtpd 6y agoLED light bulbs are pretty efficient at this point, so what I would really like to see is LED light bulbs that produce higher quality light. Due to how they work, most LED lights have color rendering index[1] of 80 or below. We have the technology, and there are some that have CRI above 95 within a reasonable price, but they are not so easy to find. It would be nice if there were more LED lights with CRI above 95 especially in the 4000K to 5500K range. I have one at home and the light is just beautiful. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
- Namari 6y agoWhat a shame we can't buy them!
- droopyEyelids 6y agoLooks like these are CRI 80 bulbs (on the big Clive video), which means they're bad enough at reproducing colors that many people will end up noticing it without even knowing what they're looking for. He says 80 is "ok" but I'm not aware of consumer lamp manufacturers that will dare go lower. I'm glad these exist, but personally I wouldn't want them in my house. Maybe would be good for lighting prison cells or something.
- trasz 6y agoI wonder... If I set a smart lightbulb to reduced intensity, would it have the same effect on its life expectancy?