4 ms·

National Rifle Association files for bankruptcy

46 points by rahimiali 6y ago

danesparza 6y ago
My understanding is this is a ploy to break contracts so they can move to Texas. Incidentally, the bankruptcy code is the only part of law that is able to break a contract legally.
- geofft 6y ago
  And it puts them outside the reach of the NY AG. Honestly I'm surprised you can file for bankruptcy while making public statements like these: https://www.nraforward.org/questionsanswers https://www.nraforward.org/questionsanswers Is the NRA going “bankrupt?” No. In fact, this move comes at a time when the NRA is in its strongest financial condition in years. To facilitate its reorganization, the NRA and one of its subsidiaries filed voluntary chapter 11 petitions in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division. The NRA is not insolvent.
  - ABeeSea 6y ago
    You can’t. The courts aren’t going to let this proceed.
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Either that, or the NRA's FAQ presents a more optimistic situation to potential donors than is actually the case.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - danesparza 6y ago
      I'm not sure. Here are the rules: https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptc...
jacquesm 6y ago
Where I live any kind of bankruptcy fraud is looked at with the most strict eye and is one of the few things that will get the corporate veil pierced, and moving assets or re-incorporating elsewhere would definitely rise to the level of attempted bankruptcy fraud. Is using bankruptcy and re-incorporating in another state to avoid a lawsuit a legal avenue or is that going to get you into more trouble? What's the penalty for bankruptcy fraud of this kind in the United States?
- erichocean 6y ago
  [deleted]
  - ABeeSea 6y ago
    The NRA served as a financial conduit to force the GOP to take more and more extreme positions on gun rights by threatening to fund primary challenges to any republicans who “stepped out of line.” The have successfully wielded this power to great effect for the last three decades.
    - syshum 6y ago
      This is a fantasy of Gun Grabbers. The NRA served as a Boogeyman for Gun Grabbers to point to so they would not have to face the reality that the vast majority of Americans support Gun Rights, this includes both Democrats and Republicans. The NRA actually only accounts for a very very small percentage of Americans that support Gun Rights.
      - kryogen1c 6y ago
        Most people i know own firearms or support firearm ownership or both, and no one i know is a part of the NRA. most people i know that are for gun reform also own firearms (also not in the NRA, if that needed saying).
        igetspam 6y ago
ABeeSea 6y ago
This bankruptcy will be blocked by New York as the NRA has publicly claimed their financial position is fine and they are only doing this to flee New York. The state AG: > While we review its bankruptcy filing, we will not allow the @NRA to use this or any other tactic to evade accountability and my office’s oversight.
- syshum 6y ago
  The state AG has very limited power over the Bankruptcy which is a Federal law. It is entirely possible the Federal Courts will reject it on the fact that the organization is not actually bankrupt but the State of New York can not "block" the Bankruptcy they can only petition the federal court to toss it
  - ABeeSea 6y ago
    > However, state laws are often applied to determine how bankruptcy affects the property rights of debtors. For example, laws governing the validity of liens or rules protecting certain property from creditors (known as exemptions), may derive from state law or federal law. Because state law plays a major role in many bankruptcy cases, it is often unwise to generalize some bankruptcy issues across state lines.
Daniel_sk 6y ago
"Damn the NRA couldn’t survive one year without school shootings" https://twitter.com/zachreinert0/status/1350205766737784832 https://twitter.com/zachreinert0/status/1350205766737784832
- profsnuggles 6y ago
  This comment made me curious about school shootings in 2020 considering that many schools were closed a lot of the time. First result for my search was https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2020/01 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year... So turns out that there have been fatal school shootings in 2020. Not a lot and I wouldn't really classify all of the items as school shootings. I was still a bit surprised though. The one about the ROTC accident I found especially strange. I don't know anything about ROTC. I for some reason assumed that learning to shoot was something they would do. Reading the article it seems that the weapon is contraband.
hammock 6y ago
Can someone explain why this belongs on HN? @dang
- rahimiali 6y ago
  I posted it because I thought it was 1) an interesting legal maneuver/hack on the NRA's part, and 2) social problems can sometimes be turned into tech problems. A lot of tech workers do tech in pursuit of a deeper social cause, and the NRA is tied to many such causes.
  - rahimiali 6y ago
    just saw this was flagged. it's worth revisiting my point, @dang
- s5300 6y ago
  If you're living in the U.S. - perhaps check the pictures I posted in another comment. If that doesn't make you slightly curious about what some heavily funded groups are doing in your own backyard... I guess I'm slightly envious.
s5300 6y ago
Around two weeks ago some completely unsolicited shit showed up in my mail from the NRA. I'm located in bumfuck Appalachia. Have never been slightly affiliated w/the NRA - but I purchased some ammunition online a few months back. Maybe that's how they got a hold of my info. Anyways - I'd highly advise anybody who isn't aware of the absolute horse shit they peddle to look at these three images. The highlighted bright red was the only thing readable through the transparent portion of the envelope. http://prntscr.com/wweheo http://prntscr.com/wweheo http://prntscr.com/wwexix http://prntscr.com/wwexix http://prntscr.com/wwf2eg http://prntscr.com/wwf2eg The most hilariously sad thing about NRA supporters is that they're either completely unaware of the Mulford Act, or completely deny how things actually went down, acting as if what was literally written into law was actually not written into law and that any document of the Mulford Act you can find online is actually a democratic hoax being propped by big tech. I've legitimately had these conversations with people. It's deeply saddening and outright fucked. They simply deny what was written into law. Anyways, fuck the NRA. Whether you are a fan of the 2nd amendment or not - the current state of gun affairs in California, a point that conservatives/gun lovers love to bring up and shit on everything about it, is literally only a thing because Republicans and the NRA didn't want black people to have the ability to open carry. When trying to simply explain what the Mulford Act actually was to some people - I was met with b-b-but bipartisanship is good! Why are you angry about it lib hahaha? - But completely lost their shit when bringing up the simple point that one party had tried to enact gun laws for many years and was met with an opposing "hurr durr don't fuck with our 2A" - an argument that was quite conveniently forgotten about something like the literal day after black people marched on the Capitol. Definitely not racism though - don't let anybody tell you that. Pure bipartisan agreementship. Also, don't forget to send the NRA money for this special membership that is oh-so specially at a discount, just for you, right now! Won't last so please send your money now so we can continue to be grifting pandering shitbags. But yeah. Final thoughts - if you've ever wondered about one of many thousands of reasons these people end up batshit fucking conspiracy crazy - here is one of them, peddled right to your doorstep unsolicited.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Explains why most of their 20 top unsecured creditors are ad/marketing agencies.
Scoundreller 6y ago
The filing is posted here: https://www.creditslips.org/files/show_temp.pl-37.pdf https://www.creditslips.org/files/show_temp.pl-37.pdf Their assets and liabilities are both between $100m and $500m. What I found interesting is: Are any bankruptcy cases pending or being filed by a business partner or an affiliate of the debtor?  No X Yes. List all cases. If more than 1, Debtor: Sea Girt LLC Relationship: Affiliate More is described about this <60d old affiliate here: https://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2021/01/nra-bankruptcy.html https://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2021/01/nra-bankrupt...

46 points by rahimiali 6y ago

My understanding is this is a ploy to break contracts so they can move to Texas. Incidentally, the bankruptcy code is the only part of law that is able to break a contract legally.

geofft 6y ago
And it puts them outside the reach of the NY AG. Honestly I'm surprised you can file for bankruptcy while making public statements like these: https://www.nraforward.org/questionsanswers https://www.nraforward.org/questionsanswers Is the NRA going “bankrupt?” No. In fact, this move comes at a time when the NRA is in its strongest financial condition in years. To facilitate its reorganization, the NRA and one of its subsidiaries filed voluntary chapter 11 petitions in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division. The NRA is not insolvent.
- ABeeSea 6y ago
  You can’t. The courts aren’t going to let this proceed.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Either that, or the NRA's FAQ presents a more optimistic situation to potential donors than is actually the case.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - danesparza 6y ago
    I'm not sure. Here are the rules: https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptc...

jacquesm 6y ago

Where I live any kind of bankruptcy fraud is looked at with the most strict eye and is one of the few things that will get the corporate veil pierced, and moving assets or re-incorporating elsewhere would definitely rise to the level of attempted bankruptcy fraud. Is using bankruptcy and re-incorporating in another state to avoid a lawsuit a legal avenue or is that going to get you into more trouble? What's the penalty for bankruptcy fraud of this kind in the United States?

erichocean 6y ago
[deleted]
- ABeeSea 6y ago
  The NRA served as a financial conduit to force the GOP to take more and more extreme positions on gun rights by threatening to fund primary challenges to any republicans who “stepped out of line.” The have successfully wielded this power to great effect for the last three decades.
  - syshum 6y ago
    This is a fantasy of Gun Grabbers. The NRA served as a Boogeyman for Gun Grabbers to point to so they would not have to face the reality that the vast majority of Americans support Gun Rights, this includes both Democrats and Republicans. The NRA actually only accounts for a very very small percentage of Americans that support Gun Rights.
    - kryogen1c 6y ago
      Most people i know own firearms or support firearm ownership or both, and no one i know is a part of the NRA. most people i know that are for gun reform also own firearms (also not in the NRA, if that needed saying).
      - igetspam 6y ago

ABeeSea 6y ago

This bankruptcy will be blocked by New York as the NRA has publicly claimed their financial position is fine and they are only doing this to flee New York. The state AG: > While we review its bankruptcy filing, we will not allow the @NRA to use this or any other tactic to evade accountability and my office’s oversight.

syshum 6y ago
The state AG has very limited power over the Bankruptcy which is a Federal law. It is entirely possible the Federal Courts will reject it on the fact that the organization is not actually bankrupt but the State of New York can not "block" the Bankruptcy they can only petition the federal court to toss it
- ABeeSea 6y ago
  > However, state laws are often applied to determine how bankruptcy affects the property rights of debtors. For example, laws governing the validity of liens or rules protecting certain property from creditors (known as exemptions), may derive from state law or federal law. Because state law plays a major role in many bankruptcy cases, it is often unwise to generalize some bankruptcy issues across state lines.

Daniel_sk 6y ago

"Damn the NRA couldn’t survive one year without school shootings" https://twitter.com/zachreinert0/status/1350205766737784832 https://twitter.com/zachreinert0/status/1350205766737784832

profsnuggles 6y ago
This comment made me curious about school shootings in 2020 considering that many schools were closed a lot of the time. First result for my search was https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2020/01 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year... So turns out that there have been fatal school shootings in 2020. Not a lot and I wouldn't really classify all of the items as school shootings. I was still a bit surprised though. The one about the ROTC accident I found especially strange. I don't know anything about ROTC. I for some reason assumed that learning to shoot was something they would do. Reading the article it seems that the weapon is contraband.

hammock 6y ago

Can someone explain why this belongs on HN? @dang

rahimiali 6y ago
I posted it because I thought it was 1) an interesting legal maneuver/hack on the NRA's part, and 2) social problems can sometimes be turned into tech problems. A lot of tech workers do tech in pursuit of a deeper social cause, and the NRA is tied to many such causes.
- rahimiali 6y ago
  just saw this was flagged. it's worth revisiting my point, @dang
s5300 6y ago
If you're living in the U.S. - perhaps check the pictures I posted in another comment. If that doesn't make you slightly curious about what some heavily funded groups are doing in your own backyard... I guess I'm slightly envious.

s5300 6y ago

Around two weeks ago some completely unsolicited shit showed up in my mail from the NRA. I'm located in bumfuck Appalachia. Have never been slightly affiliated w/the NRA - but I purchased some ammunition online a few months back. Maybe that's how they got a hold of my info. Anyways - I'd highly advise anybody who isn't aware of the absolute horse shit they peddle to look at these three images. The highlighted bright red was the only thing readable through the transparent portion of the envelope. http://prntscr.com/wweheo http://prntscr.com/wweheo http://prntscr.com/wwexix http://prntscr.com/wwexix http://prntscr.com/wwf2eg http://prntscr.com/wwf2eg The most hilariously sad thing about NRA supporters is that they're either completely unaware of the Mulford Act, or completely deny how things actually went down, acting as if what was literally written into law was actually not written into law and that any document of the Mulford Act you can find online is actually a democratic hoax being propped by big tech. I've legitimately had these conversations with people. It's deeply saddening and outright fucked. They simply deny what was written into law. Anyways, fuck the NRA. Whether you are a fan of the 2nd amendment or not - the current state of gun affairs in California, a point that conservatives/gun lovers love to bring up and shit on everything about it, is literally only a thing because Republicans and the NRA didn't want black people to have the ability to open carry. When trying to simply explain what the Mulford Act actually was to some people - I was met with b-b-but bipartisanship is good! Why are you angry about it lib hahaha? - But completely lost their shit when bringing up the simple point that one party had tried to enact gun laws for many years and was met with an opposing "hurr durr don't fuck with our 2A" - an argument that was quite conveniently forgotten about something like the literal day after black people marched on the Capitol. Definitely not racism though - don't let anybody tell you that. Pure bipartisan agreementship. Also, don't forget to send the NRA money for this special membership that is oh-so specially at a discount, just for you, right now! Won't last so please send your money now so we can continue to be grifting pandering shitbags. But yeah. Final thoughts - if you've ever wondered about one of many thousands of reasons these people end up batshit fucking conspiracy crazy - here is one of them, peddled right to your doorstep unsolicited.

Scoundreller 6y ago
Explains why most of their 20 top unsecured creditors are ad/marketing agencies.

Scoundreller 6y ago

The filing is posted here: https://www.creditslips.org/files/show_temp.pl-37.pdf https://www.creditslips.org/files/show_temp.pl-37.pdf Their assets and liabilities are both between $100m and $500m. What I found interesting is: Are any bankruptcy cases pending or being filed by a business partner or an affiliate of the debtor?  No X Yes. List all cases. If more than 1, Debtor: Sea Girt LLC Relationship: Affiliate More is described about this <60d old affiliate here: https://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2021/01/nra-bankruptcy.html https://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2021/01/nra-bankrupt...