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AMD Launches Ryzen 5000 Mobile: Zen 3 and Cezanne for Notebooks
- xiphias2 6y agoRyzen 5000 Mobile: U Series (not all Zen 3) These things are so frustrating... 5700U probably performs worse than 5600U in real life scenarios. I liked that in the previous laptop generation I could just tell my girlfriend to look for a 4000x AMD CPU, and she got an amazing laptop deal at the end.
- other_herbert 6y agoNow you have to also make sure the 2nd digit is even... I feel like this has happened in the past, the odd / even signified a different architecture.. don't remember if it was Intel or Amd though
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kllrnohj 6y agoIt's so dumb that there's a few zen2 SKUs under the 5000 name. They skipped 4000 on the desktop so that mobile and desktop could have the same name for the same generation only to immediately screw it up.
- ChuckNorris89 6y agoMy thoughts exactly. Couldn't they have released those Zen2 parts as refreshed 4000 series, which they are? This feels like they're trying to scam less knowledgeable consumers. WTF is going on at AMD? Also, the Zen3 iGPU is still Vega not RDNA2. WTF AMD?! They could integrate RDNA2 in the console Zen2 APUs but the PC Zen3 chips are still running a GPU from 2017 which is based on an architecture from 2012! How is this possible, it just seems crazu to me.
- Latty 6y agoThis isn't a new practice, and it isn't specific to AMD: Here is an LTT video from years ago talking about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEileqxmags https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEileqxmags
- Jonnax 6y agoThe reason is time to market. Intel are releasing new laptop parts said to beat their 4000 series, so they need to continue being competitive out of the door. Also their highest margin chips are going to be pared with discrete GPUs.
- tehbeard 6y agoConsoles have more space for proper cooling solutions? That's the only reason I can think.
- neogodless 6y agoI don't know if "scam" is exactly the right word, though the sentiment is likely close enough. At those lower levels anyone buying those laptops is going to have much more power than they need. Someone buying a Ryzen 5 4500U to do regular spreadsheets, email, documents, video conferencing, etc. will have ample horsepower. And a Ryzen 5 5500U is not much different. The clocks (base, all-core turbo) might even be lower, though the GPU is slightly better. However, for that kind of user, they might get better battery life, and if they fire up games, a better experience. This isn't ideal if you upgrade every generation - that wouldn't be worth it. But in those $500-600 laptops, it probably doesn't hurt. I suspect they have Zen 2 chiplet supply and buyers in that price range will be plenty happy. If they really need more CPU power from Zen 3, they could step up to Ryzen 5 5600U. So you need to be better educated on those little nuances, but only if you really need the CPU power. Presumably anyone buying that doesn't dig into these details reads reviews and looks at the benchmarks on those reviews based on programs they run that are CPU intensive. Otherwise, they probably won't be affected greatly by the difference. It's not ideal but given supply chain issues, it might be a necessary evil.
- Out_of_Characte 6y ago
- nly 6y agoEquivalence between desktop and mobile chips is largely make-believe anyway given the different thermal and power envelopes.
- waheoo 6y agoIt's about knowing when you buy a "new laptop" in the store that it has current gen chips. The amount of times I find old gen Mac's sold at new gen Mac prices in stores is disturbing.
- soperj 6y agoDidn't most new gen Mac's have old cpus in them anyway? I remember the Air going like 5 years or something without a refresh.
- kllrnohj 6y agoThe difference in thermals and power really just impacts boost clocks. It's not a very significant difference otherwise, at least not in the CPU space and especially not in single-core performance. A max-draw zen3 desktop core is only 20w. You'll see that in these laptops, or near enough to make no difference.
- whatch 6y agoAMD hardware names look like a mess for me, but is it really different from Intel's i3-i9 cpus for both desktops and laptops?
- neogodless 6y agoIf you really want to be confused, try to figure out which laptops have Coffee/Ice/Tiger Lake and whether it's 10nm or 14nm. Take a look at 10th gen Intel mobile processors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors#Latest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors#Lates... (You'll have to scroll a page or two) 11th gen seems to be a mix of Tiger Lake and the upcoming Rocket Lake iterations.
- slezyr 6y agoThere are just two models with AMD and HiDPI displays: Microsoft Surface Laptop 3, Asus ROG Zephyrus G14. It seems that the laptop market simply ignores AMD's mobile CPUs for middle-, high- end laptops.
- u678u 6y agoI think its more they're in short supply. You look at Thinkpad AMD laptops and many are one month+ wait times.
- gjsman-1000 6y agoI'm wondering at this point whether it's TSMC supply constraints. Intel still wins in sheer number of fabs producing their product. If you can't actually get enough AMD chips to ship your laptop...
- NewLogic 6y agoPaper launches everywhere, as far as the eye can see.
- toast0 6y agoDesign is a pipeline and updated models are a large component of the pipeline. AMD CPUs weren't really compelling for high end in mobile until the Zen2 Ryzen 4000 APUs released last year. There weren't a lot of high end models to update to put that in, so it took a while to get those chips into nicer models. TSMC supply limitation and pandemic induced demand for computing devices doesn't help.
- IanCutress 6y agoLisa Su interview https://www.anandtech.com/show/16409/amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su-interview-on-2021-demand-supply-tariffs-xilinx-and-epyc https://www.anandtech.com/show/16409/amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su-inte...
- danieldk 6y agoNot HiDPI, but the ThinkPad T14 AMD is a pretty good business laptop with AMD Ryzen 7 Pro. Also with extensible memory and replaceable NVMe SSD as a cherry on top. There is also the less extendable but slimmer T14s. Source: I own a T14 AMD. I am pretty happy with it after 13 years of MacBooks and returning a MacBook Air M1. With 8 cores it's fast for development and the fan is not very loud (nowhere near as loud as Intel MacBooks),
- ylere 6y agoI really hope there will be more high quality non gaming laptops with good availability. Especially in the upper tier it seems most manufacturers kept their Intel designs (not sure if due to availability, costs of adapting to the AMD platform, pressure by Intel or a combination of these).
- acomjean 6y agoBased on some recent “previews” it seems that 2021 will have a lot more amd laptops. Dave2d previewed a pile of asus ones recently . Some are gaming but lots are multi use https://youtu.be/_o-D-bgXAKM https://youtu.be/_o-D-bgXAKM
- neogodless 6y agoIn January 2020 at CES, Lisa Su said AMD had 100+ laptop design wins. This year she said they had 150+. I am not sure how this compares to Intel, but I saw two slides for Intel's Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake, and one said 40+ design wins. The other said 40+ refreshed designs.
- rowanG077 6y agoTBH. The amount doesn't matter. It's about the quality. There isn't a single Ryzen 4000 laptop that I want to buy because all of them either have: 1. Shit screen. 2. Are not 13 inch I would pay premium for a Ryzen 5800u dell XPS.
- neogodless 6y agoOh I get that! I have different preferences (think HP Omen 15, Lenovo Legion 5) but those weren't available at a good price until late summer (and really only when sales occurred). Anyone wanting QHD or 4K was out of luck last year. Wanting Ryzen but also wanting a 500-nit screen is not a great feeling. I'm actually selling my HP Omen 15 to my brother because I discovered it uses PWM for brightness, and I have a very high sensitivity - if I turn brightness down from 100% I get a headache within an hour or two. (I mostly prefer 100% brightness but when on battery I'd like to turn it down.) Fingers crossed 2021 is a big improvement from 2020 for Ryzen laptops.
- Tsarbomb 6y agoThe crunch for space at TSMC must be much worse than we realize for AMD to still use Vega which is made at GlobalFoundries. With that said, this is some impressive logistical and supply chain juggling on AMDs part.
- ChuckNorris89 6y agoZen3 and Zen2 are monolithic. The Vega GPU is on the same die as the CPU, not a separately fabbed part.
- Tsarbomb 6y agoOh damn you are correct. Okay, then I don't understand the continued use of Vega unless RDNA2 doesn't scale well to low voltage yet.
- pedrocr 6y agoMaybe they skipped 7nm and are going straight to 5nm for RDNA2 in CPUs. Zen4 based mobile chips will probably be a very interesting release.
- enragedcacti 6y agoMy understanding is that there is little benefit in upgrading the iGPU to RDNA2 because of the bandwidth limitations imposed by sharing ddr4 with the CPU. We should see some real improvements in iPGU performance once ddr5 rolls out late 2021/early 2022.
- kllrnohj 6y agoProbably just a no need type of thing. The Vega 8 is plenty fine for normal desktop usage, and they already had it integrated into Zen2. So just plop in the new Zen3 CPU and call it a day? Which is for comparison basically what they did on the desktop side. The Ryzen 5000 desktop CPUs use the exact same IO die as the Ryzen 3000 line.
- cbozeman 6y agoYour initial idea is still correct though, the crunch for space at TSMC is truly awful.
- hehehaha 6y agoThink AMD was too slow to capitalize on Intel’s mistakes and arrived a year too late. I expect them to lose momentum from here on out.
- cbozeman 6y agoBased on what. Lay out your case. Anyone can make a "hot take". Not anyone can back it up.
- bevenky 6y agoWould it be fair to compare these with M1s and if yes how would they compare side by side?
- 6d65 6y agoGeekbench M1 single threaded ~= 1720 M1 multi threaded ~= 7400 Ryzen 5900h single threaded = 1520 Ryzen 5900h multithreaded = 9325 Ryzen is consuming 45W, M1 is said to consume 13. Ryzen is on TSMC 7nm, M1 on 5nm. It's said that TSMCs 5nm is 1.8x more dense than 7nm, 30% more efficient and 15% faster. So if both were on 5nm, one could extrapolate that the single threaded performance would be similar, but ryzen would still lose on battery life. But it's a speculation. As to whether it's fair, Apple can pay premium for 5nm exclusive access, and then charge the users hundreds of dollars per 8GB of RAM or storage upgrades. AMD is selling the chips to the OEMs which have to make money themselves, which means that using cutting edge nodes might not make sense economically. But that doesn't matter, both are businesses, it's AMDs fault that they didn't rush to 5nm and are comfortable at staying behind. The ones to lose will be the premium laptop manufactures, that sell laptops at 1000+ usd. As the agressive Apple marketing will most likely cut into their sales. It would be interesting to see if the rumors, about Intel using TSMC 5nm this year, are true. Intel had the single threaded perf lead, even on their less dense 14nm node, vs AMD on TSMCs 7nm. Could be that on TSMCs nodes they would be faster than both Apple and AMD, but still probably at a higher TDP than Apple chips.
- em500 6y agoSince people are probably curious: the Ryzen 7 5800U (8-core, 15W TDP) will probably be close to (but not equal to or better than) Apple's M1 in performance (based on specs and desktop Zen3 Geekbench scores). But they will probably have significantly worse efficiency. With idle / low-CPU workload, it's probably not too bad (17-21hr on 53Wh battery), but if you're compiling on your laptop all day I'd expect much worse battery life than Apple's M1 laptops.
- Findeton 6y agoI will get a 5800U nevertheless and avoid Apple's walled garden.
- SXX 6y agoNow we only need proper laptops with AMD hardware. Mostly everything I seen before in dreadful state and Intel monopoly on the market doesn't help.
- hmottestad 6y agoI really hope they can compete. As much as I would love Apple to pull ahead by a mile, it’s not going to help the computer space that much. I have some Android friends who are super happy with their phones. When they ask why I’m upgrading my iPhone again and I say “it’s got a lot better performance” they usually say something like “why do you need a faster phone....my midrange 3 year old android phone is blazingly fast”. It’s not until we lift all users in general that we will be able to create new and innovative software. I like to compare an old school project where they had to create a spell checker...but this was back when you didn’t have enough ram to keep the dictionary in memory. More memory and faster CPUs make yesterday’s challenges trivial for today’s developers.
- Out_of_Characte 6y agoBut really, What do you need more cpu power on the phone for? email, whatsapp and a browser is about everything I can envision my phone for. Nothing innovative I can think of is going to change anything about what people use and need their phone for. Not that I'm against progress, better screens, lower latencies and faster loading are always appreciated.
- foolmeonce 6y agoNo updates in the area of GPU might be a good thing for me, can anyone share experiences regarding Linux with the 4000?
- scns 6y agoCheck phoronix.com, there should be several articles about it.
- toolz 6y agoI have a 4700u, some device issues at first (touchpad, namely) that work now (as is the case with all brand new laptop models) - AMD cpus are beasts though - can't wait until they start putting them in higher build quality laptops.
- hydroxideOH- 6y agoI run Arch on the HP Envy x360 with a ryzen 4500u and it's a very smooth experience, I've had no issues. I did have Ubuntu on it at first and it may have been a bad install, but it was terrible. Half the time I'd turn on the laptop and something different would be broken.
- flatiron 6y agoIs it just me or does it feel like in the past 5-7 years it doesn't really make that much of a difference when new CPUs come out? My laptop is a i7-4800MQ and it still feels incredibly snappy. Anything I need to do for work I just farm out to AWS. All of my gaming is on Stadia. Personally its just easier for me to use the cloud for all of these things instead of cycling through devices all the time.
- gameswithgo 6y agoYes, cpu performance no longer increasing by factors of 2 with new generations, so a CPU stays relevant for a lot longer, unless you have compute heavy jobs that can leverage the new core counts. (compilation sometimes fits that description)
- hmottestad 6y agoIt’s been quite a few years since we had a 2x improvement between generations. I get a feeling it’s probably 5-10 years ago.
- gameswithgo 6y agoyes, that is why the person I replied to can have an old cpu and it is still fine today.
- nicoburns 6y agoAnyone multitasking can use the core counts. I feel like 2 -> 4 cores will make a difference for most users. 4 -> 8 for heavy users like developers.
- gameswithgo 6y agoYes, but 4 cores has been the standard for a long time already. Recently thanks to AMD heavy users often are grabbing 8, 12, 16 or more.
- 6y ago
- ginko 6y agoMeanwhile I still have problems getting my hands on a mini-pc with a Ryzen 4000 mobile APU.
- hocuspocus 6y agoI assume they cannot even supply enough parts to fill the demand from laptop OEMs . I also wish I could replace my desktop PC with an H-class CPU setup. The iGPU is enough for my needs, but I could definitely use the 8C/16T in a reasonable power envelope. Intel might do it, but it's probably be going to be a very expensive NUC platform targeted at gamers that also want a dGPU. In the end it's cheaper and easier to build a mini-ITX setup using desktop parts...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- slantyyz 6y agoIf you're not dead set on the mobile chip, Lenovo makes a ThinkCenter M75q Tiny Gen2 with a Ryzen 4750GE [1], although the ship dates look ridiculously far out at 5 weeks or more. I just ordered the larger SFF model (M75s Gen 2) this week with a Ryzen 7 4750G and it is scheduled to arrive within 14d. MSRP is pricey, but in Canada, I was able to score mine for less than half of MSRP due to a sale and some other promos. [1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/ThinkCentre-M75q-Gen-2/p/11TC1MTM7G2 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkc...
- po1nter 6y agoI wonder how they will tackle the availability issue since on the desktop side, it's close to impossible to get a 5900x/5950x CPU at MSRP or close to MSRP price.
- acd 6y agoWill be nice of there will be Mini ITX/media HTPC variants of this CPU. You can play games and media on 14-45W CPU TDP which should be very quiet from fan noise.
- pimeys 6y agoAnd with two nics, so you could build a home router and server with freebsd and jails serving all your needs. One can dream...
- teekert 6y agoI wanted a Ryzen 4000 (for a home server), it was never available anywhere. I got an i3. I feel a bit said.
- voidmain0001 6y agoI have been waiting for Lenovo to release the Legion 7 Slim with the 4900H to replace my aged Lenovo Thinkpad 540p, but a 7 Slim with a 5000 series would be drool worthy for me.
- chrismorgan 6y agoI have three requirements that I would like to satisfy in a new laptop: 1. AMD Ryzen, Zen 2 or later (meaning 3000 desktop, 4000 mobile or 5000 any). At this point assume that I’m not concerned about class of processor, though I think H-class is probably my ideal. 2. Minimum screen resolution of 2560×1440, preferably 4K or similar. (And since I’m talking, ideally a squarer aspect ratio like 3:2, but those are so rare I won’t even bother looking. But I do really like my Surface Book’s 3000×2000 display.) 3. No NVIDIA GPU, because I want to use Linux and NVIDIA hates Linux, and I want to be able to run Wayland also. So either integrated graphics only (with a U-class or H-class APU), or an AMD dGPU (which would be the only option on the higher-end desktop CPUs). Sure, with U-class or H-class I could just disable the NVIDIA GPU, but the dead weight and giving money to NVIDIA for something I will never use galls, quite apart from the mild nuisance of figuring out how to disable it. I looked through all the manufacturers I could find in Australia, and all the Clevo OEMs I could find worldwide. I have not found a single device that satisfies all three of these requirements. Any two, sure, but not all three. A related peeve lies with the H-class APUs: why can’t I get one without an NVIDIA GPU? I have found only one place selling laptops with H-class APUs and no dedicated NVIDIA GPU: TUXEDO, in their Pulse 14 and Pulse 15. But even then, they’re only available on paper—order now and you won’t get it for over three months since they’re currently out of both 4600H and 4800H APUs. (For myself, I rule TUXEDO out for not shipping to Australia, anyway; any forwarding service arrangement would be a bother and probably expensive, and leave me with a useless warranty.) But you’d think that more than one manufacturer would look at how light yet powerful a laptop they can make this way and do one without a discrete GPU. Look, the Pulse 15 with its 91Wh battery even advertises over 20 hours of battery life when idling at minimum brightness (and the Pulse 14’s 47Wh battery, 12 hours). These things make me sad. I hope the portfolio expansion mentioned here will include something to satisfy me.
- ohyes 6y agoSo, I looked on the AMD shop online and it looks like the MSI Bravo 15 satisfies all of these requirements, it is surprising that there was only one laptop in the AMD store that seems to satisfy this. I'm in the USA, maybe that makes a difference.
- 6y ago
- ncmncm 6y agoI am seeing hints that Ryzen 5000 RDRAND is busted again, on e.g. systemd and wireguard lists. Is it confusion, or is there really a problem?
- brnt 6y agoIs there any word on slower desktop variants? A followup to the 1300/3100?
- neogodless 6y agoRyzen 3 3100 was launched in May 2020 about ten months after the Ryzen 7 3700X, so I would expect a pretty long lead time following the Ryzen 7 5800X launch. Still if you're shopping in this category, I'm not sure it's worth it to wait for next generation.
- crispycrafter2 6y agoNo troubles this side. Ryzen 5, RTX2080 daily driver on Ubuntu 20. Even use steam for Linux mostly in the off hour. Very little noticeable diff with game performance on win10
- a012 6y agoIt's frustrated me is their mobile CPUs are gamer centric, I still can't find an interesting/decent/ready-to-ship notebook for developing since 4000 series APU launched. I appreciate if somebody can point me one to buy.
- neogodless 6y agoThis might fit your bill? https://www.eluktronics.com/THINN-15 https://www.eluktronics.com/THINN-15 $1000 USD Ryzen 7 4800H (with no dedicated GPU) 16GB/512GB 15.6" 1080p 60Hz Wifi 6 91 Wh 3 lbs 2 oz