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Tell HN: Dropbox now requires access to contacts for Google login

618 points by poxobloc 6y ago

I remember I was using Google login to login to my Dropbox and in the last year or so Dropbox started asking me to access my contacts in Google. I would always deny access and still manage to successfully login. Yesterday I tried the same but with no luck. I contacted Dropbox support and this is their reply: > I'm afraid that is not possible at the time. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Interesting that they chose this route when users are getting more and more privacy-aware.

godzillabrennus 6y ago
DropBox seems to have decided that the only way for them to grow is to turn their data sync platform into a collaborative platform. Makes a whole lot of sense to steal contacts from all your users. FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about.
- pornel 6y ago
  Sadly, you can't have a product that does one thing and does it well when you have to show never-ending growth to investors :(
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Even more sadly that same thing seems to be true of FOSS applications because people think an application you aren't constantly updating and adding features to is "abandoned". Software isn't allowed to just be done anymore.
    - henriquemaia 6y ago
      Well, fortunately, there are exceptions. Case in point being XFCE. It has remained the same for years. However, your point still stands, because exceptions are just that, exceptions.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  > FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. Interesting remark. I'm not objecting but it's interesting that this goes against what can one read here very often from people who comment on new products, which goes like this: "if you offered oauth sign up, I'd sign up but won't bother with creating an account". Just an observation.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    do you mean OpenID? I guess oauth is OK for signups if the tokens were expiring. But usually you naively give the credentials to a new startup, only to find out they abuse them months later.
    - dudul 6y ago
      Can you elaborate on that? How can they abuse it? Your oauth provider will show you which permissions the app is requesting when you grant them access. What kind of abuse have you seen?
  - malka 6y ago
    I'm the opposite. 'only Google and Facebook Auth ? Can't create account ? Bye.'
    - Tepix 6y ago
      It vastly increases the tracking that FB and Google can do. Bad idea. Also, knowing Google, perhaps they one day decide to discount the oauth login feature?
      - Tepix 6y ago
        not discount, discontinue of course
- beastman82 6y ago
  Not following. What's wrong with oauth?
  - merlinscholz 6y ago
    When Google's AI (=RNG) decides to terminate your account (maybe you typed a few too many comments on YouTube, this has happened to people), you'll lose every service for which you used Google to sign in with. Also, the usual tracking stuff.
    - arendtio 6y ago
      In addition, you are limited to the few providers which are being supported by the platform. So you can't simply create your own authentication provider as it was possible with OpenID.
    - switch007 6y ago
      Don't websites usually create an association between a local user (in their DB) and an oauth2 account, linked by the email address? And then all your data is linked to the local DB user. I guess it's a bigger threat if you don't use your own domain for email. EDIT: I'm talking about sites that also have their own local user db of course, so you could just do a password reset.
- Latty 6y ago
  Is there an oauth provider that offers what mobiles have started to do with permissions, where "deny" just gives empty data to to the requesting application instead of actually rejecting the claim? It'd be nice to see Google offer something like that.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Facebook does this with theirs for access to a user’s Pages. Just an empty array, which isn’t unusual for normal users. Makes it tough for third-party devs to debug a legit “I am not seeing Page X as an option” though.
- arendtio 6y ago
  I am not so sure if oauth is to blame alone. I mean, it is a technology that lets you control what you want to share. However, engaging in business with a partner who decides to change the rules, is something I see a lot more critical. So maybe the lesson should sound more like - 'Don't use Dropbox for anything you care about' or - 'Don't do business with large corporations for anything you care about' To clarify, I am not saying it to protect oauth (in its current state I am not a particular fan of it), but to show, that the technology doesn't change by itself and that someone decided to change it. So the company who decided to execute this unethical change should take its share of the blame too.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    Isnt the point here that you don't have control? Seems like you need to allow contact access to use google login at all. There is no fine grained control to permissions.
    - robertlagrant 6y ago
      That's not oauth, that's just the granularity the auth provider has decided to expose in its permissions system, and the granularity Dropbox have opted to request.
      - jeromegv 6y ago
        That's oauth in the sense that if you login with your own login/pass, this will never be something they can force on you. I never use oauth, always login/pass, and don't have to care about what permissions they ask me, it's easy, they have absolutely zero access to my gmail/facebook/twitter whatever.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. Or, "Then create a password and revoke oauth permissions from the provider"
  - mkr-hn 6y ago
    These days all browsers offer to generate and save a syncable password for you and fill in the email, so it's almost as easy to make a normal account as it is to use OAuth. It feels like OAuth/SSO is a tool for a different, less user-friendly era.
- tallanvor 6y ago
  > FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. I definitely agree with this. While it's true that Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and Apple are probably better at securing accounts than most other companies, there's always the possibility that they can be compromised. Another problem is that if your oauth provider decides to close your account for whatever reason, it may be difficult or impossible to unlink everything from it. Not only do I create real accounts for any service I want to use, I divide them up among multiple separate email accounts, so that if one account is compromised, I limit the associated services that are vulnerable as a result.
  - malka 6y ago
    My Spotify is broken since I deleted my Facebook. I can't even change the email in my profile.
    - tored 6y ago
      Contact Spotify support. Had a similar problem where I had a leftover Facebook-Spotify account after delinking that blocked my normal account from changing my email. Spotify support was quick to help me.
quantumofalpha 6y ago
Isn't that against GDPR for european users?
- rkangel 6y ago
  I was going to say no (and I've left my logic below for posterity), but maybe you have a point. The OP can't continue to use Dropbox without giving up some more privacy. They can't even get in to get their data out (although GDPR does take care of that). Previous logic: They've asked for permission, been clear about what data they and presumably haven't prechecked anything (because they don't have control over that UI). I don't think GDPR has any protection about a vendor locking you in and then asking to change the privacy policy.
  - pieno 6y ago
    Exactly. Consent must be freely given to be valid under GDPR. Here is some analysis on what this means by the European Data Protection Board:[0] “ 3.1 Free / freely given12 13. The element “free” implies real choice and control for data subjects. As a general rule, the GDPR prescribes that if the data subject has no real choice, feels compelled to consent or will endure negative consequences if they do not consent, then consent will not be valid.13 If consent is bundled up as a non-negotiable part of terms and conditions it is presumed not to have been freely given. Accordingly, consent will not be considered to be free if the data subject is unable to refuse or withdraw his or her consent without detriment.14 The notion of imbalance between the controller and the data subject is also taken into consideration by the GDPR.” [0] https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_guidelines_202005_consent_en.pdf https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_gui...
- JorgeGT 6y ago
  Follow-up question: are they notifying the scooped contacts that they now hold their personal data, as required by Art. 14 of the GDPR? https://gdpr-info.eu/art-14-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-14-gdpr/
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  It is but the GDPR isn't being enforced even against bigger and more blatant violations so there's no risk there. (please don't refute this with a link to enforcementtracker.com unless you can show me a fine that's even remotely close to being dissuasive)
lima 6y ago
Wow, this is awful. I just tried to log into my account and I can't unless I give them access to my contacts. This is completely unacceptable - feels like a ransom.
- paublyrne 6y ago
  You should be still able to log in with the same email with user/password, without being asked for a new permission.
  - lima 6y ago
    I don't even have a password, I think.
    - mcintyre1994 6y ago
      Does requesting a password reset work? Some websites will let you set a password on an OAuth account using that.
pgt 6y ago
Hmm. My Dropbox Pro subscription renewal is coming up. Is there an alternative to Dropbox that isn't iCloud or Google Drive? I would like to pay for Tarsnap but I don't understand 250 picodollars / byte-month.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  i switched to microsoft 1Drive a long time ago, works seamlessly on windows
  - pedro2 6y ago
    I am repeating myself from another thread but I'm 90% sure of the answer and no-one checks: are you sure OneDrive works well? Can you sync PST files? [1] [1] https://www.eejournal.com/article/onedrive-down-the-road-to-madness/ https://www.eejournal.com/article/onedrive-down-the-road-to-...
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      I haven't had problems with files , but that might be just me. I had an issue in the past that it would crash . i removed and reinstalled and it s fixed now
- overlord_tm 6y ago
  Check out https://koofr.eu/ https://koofr.eu/ Disclaimer: I work there :)
- Zhyl 6y ago
  I use SyncThing [0]. It can work without a server if your devices are often up at the same time. Otherwise you can get a small cheap server from the provider of your choice to suit your needs. [0] https://syncthing.net/ https://syncthing.net/
  - vaduz 6y ago
    SyncThing is great when it works, but its platform support is spotty at best (notably lacks official iOS version, I found the Android one to be flaky and if you try to use it on a Chromebook, straight up does not work). It's great for serverless sync between Linux, freeBSD and Windows machines, though - it generally "just works". Didn't try it on macOS or Solaris, never had the need to.
Ensorceled 6y ago
I left dropbox when they changed the full page upsell to "dropbox business" so that I couldn't easily figure out how to skip it and get on with my work. I had a paid pro account at the time. I actually had a conversation with a product manager; I checked the yes you can contact me when I cancelled my account. They simply refused to admit that an upsell was a advertisement and that disrupting my workflow on my paid, professional account for an ad was wrong. The other interesting thing about that conversation, they could not understand how a sole proprietor would see no benefit from collaboration tools and kept making up bizarre scenarios where I could use them. I actually asked them if they were a product manager or a salesperson at one point. To Dropbox's credit, that product manager didn't try to retain me, they were genuinely trying to figure out why I had quit; they just couldn't grok the reason.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  > they just couldn't grok the reason It's hard to make someone understand something when their salary (and entire reputation - given that increasing engagement/retention by X% is a big selling point on a resume) depends on not understanding it.
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    Yes, but usually in that situation, the misunderstanding is intentional. This seemed a genuine inability to understand why I would quit over "a simple upsell". I am sure the inability to understand that it was a dark pattern to have no [X] or [SKIP] button was intentional :-)
    - mrjin 6y ago
      Well that was simply arrogance that can be see in almost every large organizations: they believe everyone would like their idea. The problem maybe most people do like their idea but there would be always someone does not.
saos 6y ago
For what???
madsbuch 6y ago
I recently moved away from Dropbox due to its increasing hostility. I am currently evaluating pCloud, though I am not sure they are the one I want to go with: They have some severe problems with consistency across syncs and they allow themselves to push advertisement through their desktop apps ie. they are highly intrusive. I guess I will give them the year I paid for and then move on.
- nothis 6y ago
  I tried about half a dozen cloud backup solutions and Dropbox, so far, is the only one who can deliver the only thing that matters to me: Consistency. Dropbox actually works and it works well. It can handle suddenly having thousands of tiny text files, it can handle a 5GB PDF, it handles foreign letters in file names and it has a sane way of determining which file version is the current one when switching between platforms. It gives me cold sweat to read headlines like this since there aren't enough alternatives to Dropbox that "just work". Similar to what happens to Apple. I have no idea why Dropbox is fucking around with their shit so much. I'd happily pay a dollar more here and there (and they just increased pricing!), just don't do bullshit in the background.
- ffpip 6y ago
  pCloud has terrible security. They don't even use https in all places. They also don't state what encryption they use. They rolled their own ig.
Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
Syncthing might be a good option for those that wish to migrate. It is a stable open-source solution for syncing a directory in many-to-many clients situation. The syncthing itself provides no servers. But if you wish to have a central server it could be as easy as just installing synchting on your main machine or a cheap VPS. The UI is good enough and it is stable.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  this. i was an old bittorrent sync user when it came up, continued to use it till they made it difficult. probably from day 1. then found out about syncthing and couldnt ask for more. it does take "understanding" to get everything hooked up but once done it just works without any issues
- tmslnz 6y ago
  Syncthing has been working very reliably for our agency, with multiple users reading/writing to shared projects, with a NAS elected as "master" (though ST doesn't care who's who). Frankly impressive for an OSS project. However setting up and managing Syncthing is far from self-explanatory for a non-technical audience. It's OK in our case as we can hand-hold and onboard people in-house, but not ideal. Syncthing's usability would benefit immensely from an updated front-end UX, consistent across platforms. Dropbox for all its recent dark patterns and upsells is still one of the most intuitive systems. Yes, the client UX has worsened, but the core service retains a very predictable behaviour. A folder is a folder. Shared with X and Y. When un-sharing or deleting a folder or file the options are clearly communicated. Compare this with Google Drive, where a "file" can become orphaned and keep existing in limbo, where it's invisible in the browser or filesystem, but it's discoverable by search. It drove us nuts multiple times making it very hard to track access to old documents without having to update settings one-by-one, etc. Google Drive feels like an afterthought to accompany the otherwise great Docs, Slides. and Sheets.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    That's because Syncthing is a different beast. If you want something closer to Dropbox, use Nextcloud, which does basically everything Dropbox does (and more) and has the simple sharing UI you're talking about.
danpalmer 6y ago
As a product focused company trying to create a great UX, it's really quite easy to justify something like this for creating a better UX. I can imagine a PM looking at the collaboration flow, UX researcher finding friction in initiating collaboration, testing mockups where Dropbox "magically" knows your colleagues, and it getting great reception from users. Most users still don't care about privacy, most users assume email addresses are essentially fully public. This part is a better UX for the majority of users. The problem comes when there's a data leak, or when the marketing team decide to email those contacts, or some time later that could really easily be argued as "this will never happen", and may often not, but it's possible. It's details like this that differentiate the "good" product companies from the "great" product companies, specifically because the detail of "not collecting email addresses" would never be noticed by those users, by construction.
redwood 6y ago
From my perspective, Dropbox was doomed to decline ever since they made a big splash about how proud they were of moving off of public cloud in to self manage data centers. While they no doubt reduced their operating costs with that move, I couldn't help it feel that this meant that they were investing so many of their precious mental cycles, hiring cycles, maintenance cycles, into plumbing instead of user-centered innovation which was their original sweet spot. What was celebrated at the time as a great example of how cloud is a big mistake for people to me is in fact the opposite and should be used in future as a good business case study. Folks never think about the opportunity cost; they get blinded by $$$ figures which are so misleading
- delfinom 6y ago
  There's no reason why an org can't multitask their future plans. They more or less were forced to cut their own costs because their competitors owned the infrastructure they run on, they could never run cheaper than their competitors. Any good business leaves business roadmaps to different executives. Infrastructure doesn't need to be the primary concern of sales and product managers who should be plotting the growth of the company externally while a CTO is left to handle the "internal growth" of the company to match. Their true problem regardless is staying relevant in a market where the competitors offer better value through bundling as entire IT and cloud platforms. There's no point for businesses to use Dropbox when Microsoft provides Onedrive for Windows businesses and Google provides gdrive with gsuite. Hell for consumers, Apple and Microsoft provide seamlessly integrated storage in their operating systems. Dropbox can spend years developing their own office suite tools but they'll never be able to breach the brainshare and stability that the titans provide. There's only so many ways you can "innovate" file handling before you are flogging a dead horse or repainting a car tire for the 50th time. Dropbox's only chance was to breach heavily into cloud office suites _before_ google and microsoft jumped in full speed, which they didn't and the ship has sailed. Does it mean they can't stay alive? Well, they are floundering and playing catch up is difficult. Even Box is eating their business lunch and carving a niche because they offer a true professional business interface for IT admins to configure everything, down to legal compliance requirements. Dropbox is a fucking toy in comparison too focused on minimal hipster UIs based on a design language they originally used for consumers and have tried to force it onto business for more years than they should have.
hatmatrix 6y ago
Do you need Google login though? I think for every platform I have created a separate account (and don't link them together).
- ytch 6y ago
  Me too. I buy a domain and setup a forward-all email server. For example, github@mydomain.dev for github. With a password manager, I won't confused at login. And most importantly, use fb@mydomain.dev at Facebook since I will see AD on Facebook about what I just browsed on another shopping site with the same email account.
  - YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
    "Facebook container" can be useful here
    - ytch 6y ago
      Facebook AD can target user by email /phone number: https://www.facebook.com/business/help/170456843145568?id=2469097953376494 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/170456843145568?id=24... Container is not work in this case. But I use it too, it is useful on prevent me being tracked on random website.
grishka 6y ago
I really wish mobile OSes would allow you to grant apps permissions but serve fake data, (that's important!) without giving the app the ability to tell the difference. Just so it appears to the app that you've given the permission, when you in fact have not. This would solve this entire class of problems and then some. So, for example: - App "has" access to contacts, but the system returns that you have none. - App "has" access to location, but the search for GPS satellites never completes. - App "has" access to storage, but it's actually /dev/null.
- tomsmeding 6y ago
  While for contacts and location that would be a good feature (I agree!), I'm not so sure about storage. It may be nice for certain rogue apps (or ones that request permissions they don't actually need) to give them /dev/null without them knowing, but that may actually result in bugs and unstable behaviour if apps are written to expect working storage. Storage doesn't have a built-in failure mode like contacts and location have.
  - grishka 6y ago
    Okay, you're probably right. It might be a better option to give an app a sandboxed storage location instead, just so the files it put there remain there because it might expect to find them there later.
    - dmd 6y ago
      ... isn't that exactly what access to storage does? Do any (mobile) platforms give access to NON sandboxed storage?
      - Ensorceled 6y ago
        No, sandboxed means restricted to that application. Apps need permissions to access data outside of their sandbox. They are suggesting that there be another sandboxed storage for apps that pretends to be read data.
pmlnr 6y ago
People are still using dropbox in the age of one-click nextclouds in aws, freenas, digitalocean, etc? Interesting.
- piva00 6y ago
  And we've come full circle from Dropbox's initial announcement post [1] to this post, almost 14 years later. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
- bovermyer 6y ago
  You know, this could easily be taken in a condescending way. I choose to use <insert name of service provider here> instead of rolling my own because I don't want to deal with the hassle. And before you say "but it's a one-click install! what hassle?" I'll answer you: the hassle is not in launching it, the hassle is in keeping it online and operating well at all times. People always forget about maintenance when they spout these things...
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  Dropbox is dramatically cheaper per GB than the other cloud storage services, and it doesn't charge bandwidth fees.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  > nextclouds in aws Now make the owncloud/nextcloud a reliable experience for more than one user, handle updates and occassional migrations, etc.
- PUFFhPhEHo 6y ago
  For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software.
kmfrk 6y ago
iCloud Drive is actually pretty decent now, except it seems to be completely random when it wants to sync files on Windows. Even so, it can still easily cover 50% of use cases for Dropbox.
- PhantomGremlin 6y ago
  It's also "completely random" as to when it wants to sync files from MacOS to iOS. So at least it's consistent that way. :) It is often instantaneous for files to sync from my Macbook to my iPhone. Other times it takes many hours. I haven't found a GUI option to force a sync.
joshxyz 6y ago
Airtable too lol
- poxobloc 6y ago
  Ah! So that was the service where I was able to continue logging in by selecting Deny/Cancel! I believe in AirTable you can get around this. Not on Dropbox.
confiq 6y ago
why people would use oauth for services like this? I always use anonymous email
- ffpip 6y ago
  More convenient. No passwords, and better security. Everything is centralized (disadvantage too) Also, "why people would use anonymous email for services like this? I always use oauth"
  - confiq 6y ago
    as for password, I use password manager. Problem with oauth that I can't make e-mail unique and I can't know where spam is coming from. ex: user+dropbox@mydomain.com will be unique for that domain.
- chaz6 6y ago
  I miss when OpenID was a thing and I could run my own iDP, but that didn't catch on because everyone wanted to be the iDP and not an RP. These days it's a cabal of a few big companies.
  - confiq 6y ago
    yes, this could be designed much much better.
paride5745 6y ago
I've got a Synology NAS and I keep OneDrive for documents I might need in case of emergency. Dropbox has no reason to exists for me. Firstly, they want to force me which filesystem to use on my Linux box, secondly, I already have plenty of GBs on Google Drive and MS OneDrive, so why would I need another service is beyond me. I mean, it's not like Dropbox is a safe encrypted alternative to GDrive or OneDrive anyway...
- mtzet 6y ago
  They do provide provide first-party Linux support, which Google and Microsoft lack. What other reason should I have for trusting Microsoft or Google over Dropbox? (Serious question, I've been considering my cloud sync provider recently).
  - teraku 6y ago
    There are working open source clients for OneDrive. You can just encrypt the data you pump into OneDrive (or any cloud provider you don't trust) and just use it for quick online access and then sync everything into your local NAS/server.
    - paride5745 6y ago
      Exactly this. I have my data on my NAS and I keep on Onedrive and GDrive only what I might need while around.
beshrkayali 6y ago
As an alternative, I recently setup Nextcloud on an Ubuntu running vm using the snap package[1] and it took around 30 minutes in total. 1: https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud-snap https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud-snap
- frankzander 6y ago
  Nextcloud works quite well. And you have also a calendar and some other nice features which DropBox not provides. Also the desktop sync client as well as the android client(s) works quite well.
  - beshrkayali 6y ago
    Yeah, those little applets are pretty useful. It does feel somewhat slugish if you enable many tho. Sync works perfectly for my use case.
- avh02 6y ago
  I did the same some months ago - just a heads up that it's not without it's rough edges, but definitely does a near-enough-to-what-i-want job. I've noticed a few unsynced images and am currently struggling to get the android app to stop trying to sync a gigantic folder.
  - beshrkayali 6y ago
    I was using the docker image with my own ansible/nginx setup before but I found that maintaining required a little more attention that I'd like to give it, so I decided to give the snap package a go. One nice thing is that it self-updates automatically. What sort of issues did you encounter?
    - avh02 6y ago
      Server side's actually okay, I think the android app has a number of bugs. For example I tried to set a folder with several thousand pieces of media and a few other files to auto upload and it'd keep triggering "nextcloud is not responding" pop-ups on my phone. It's ~6 gigs but didn't complete for two painful days. It was almost impossible to open the app cos it's intensely trying to sync that folder. I thought I managed to cancel it yesterday and remove the folder from auto uploads but today it's trying to upload the contents of that folder again even though I can't find it in my auto upload setup. I've also felt it misses instant uploads once in a while but never investigated to prove that or the circumstances so take that with a grain of salt
poxobloc 6y ago
OP here. Just to clarify some confusion. I can still login using my username and password. I just liked the simplicity of logging in via Google, since I was already logged in there. Seems like I'm no longer able to do that and, from what I read here, some users might be completely locked out unless they give access to Google contacts.
- lsaferite 6y ago
  I stopped using Google login a while back after having a hard time moving an account to a different google account. I realized that the benefits do not outweigh the problems AND that I really didn't want Google being the gatekeeper to all these other accounts. It's also what has started me on the path of moving off of all Google products. I still like Google, but the honeymoon is certainly over.
DaWe 6y ago
Hi, I'm working on a Dropbox alternative where only you own your data. It's still in beta, but files are already stored on the decentralized Sia Skynet network and only you have access because all files are encrypted with your key! https://marstorage.hns.siasky.net/ https://marstorage.hns.siasky.net/
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  How does one register?
Timpy 6y ago
Thanks for sharing this, I've been trying to move away from Google Drive and I was about to go all in on Dropbox. The recent layoffs made me question Dropbox a little but this is the final nail in the coffin. I'm looking for something Linux friendly if anybody has a solution they're loving right now. Backblaze B2 maybe?
tmslnz 6y ago
Many of us here are taking the opportunity to suggest Syncthing. I second that. We have been using it for years in our studio, moving much more data than it would ever be possible or practical with Dropbox and never had a bad surprise. We were also pleasantly surprised to see it working flawlessly behind a fairly thick NAT/Firewall when working from home. It's very stable, resilient and easy to set up for anyone lurking on HN. However it is not as easy as Dropbox to set up for non-technical peeps, which is a bit of a shame as it hinders broader adoption.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  Also there's no iOS app.
a3n 6y ago
I dropped DropBox when they put Condoleezza Rice on the board. Thanks for reminding me that that was a good move.
- chinathrow 6y ago
  Same here, and I told everyone else. The site is still up. https://www.drop-dropbox.com/ https://www.drop-dropbox.com/
j45 6y ago
There are some easy to access alternatives not to use Dropbox. I'll be canceling my 10+ year subscription. Also this is an great example of why to always create accounts under an email address you type in, not an identity service through faang.
emaro 6y ago
> Interesting that they chose this route when users are getting more and more privacy-aware. Agreed. But it's also funny, because 'privacy-aware' and 'Google login' is a bit of a paradox.
donohoe 6y ago
*sigh* I would pay a lot of money for a service like the one Dropbox was in in its first few years. That is the service that I need now, not all this shiny crud. I've been a Dropbox user for 12+ years. I imagine it as buying a car 10 years ago because it solved all your mobility needs (shopping, occasional longer trips, dropping kids/family members to their events etc). You wander into the garage 12 years later and you have this monstrosity with five wheels, built-in backseat crayons, 20-feet long, flippers, and just two functional doors. I don't need that. I certainly don't want that, and I'm actively looking to move away when my annual renewal comes up.
- driverdan 6y ago
  The car analogy is a good one. Try finding a decent new car that doesn't come with a cell connection and respects your privacy.
  - nicbou 6y ago
    I'm more concerned by how they tie the car to short-lived services and technologies. A car shouldn't be obsoleted by the software that powers its dashboard.
- bryanmgreen 6y ago
  And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile... And you may find yourself paying for 5TB of cloud storage with feature bloat... And you may ask yourself, "Well... how did I get here?"
- sethhochberg 6y ago
  Depending on your platforms of choice, iCloud Drive has been a great solution for me. I was an early Dropbox user who got out when they started limiting the number of syncing devices for free accounts a while back, and the $0.99 a month I pay to Apple for 50GB of storage in a folder that appears on all my devices works exactly like I want it to - I save stuff there, and then forget about it until I need it, and its magically on whatever device I'm using. Sync could be a feature, or sync could be a product. But the lesson seems to be that if your product is sync, and you grow big and take lots of outside money to do it, sync won't be your product for very long. You'll need to expand and try to do everything else that could use good sync as a feature.
jijji 6y ago
is Samba really that hard to setup?
- p_l 6y ago
  A lot of dropbox use cases are impossible for Samba (among other things, shared dropbox folders became popular alternative to badly setup FTP servers in DTP-adjacent media companies).
- protomyth 6y ago
  No, but Samba is not a replacement for DropBox.
Lio 6y ago
I find this sort of thing goes hand in hand with the "Maybe Later" culture. You want to say "No." but you can't, they've taken that option away from you. Instead you're forced to give them permission to bug you again later.
swiley 6y ago
There's syncthing now, no need for dropbox.
- F00Fbug 6y ago
  I'm happy to see so many people advocating Syncthing... Nothing like rolling your own!
  - swiley 6y ago
    Syncthing isn't rolling your own, it's just an app you run. Rolling your own would be shoving git in crontab or something crazy like that.
WanderPanda 6y ago
Am I the only one infinitely annoyed by dropbox hiding the download button in a context menu?!
- gus_massa 6y ago
  And if you right click on the link to the file, it downloads the html page that shows the file, using the name of the file. So when you open the file locally, you get a corrupt file message because you downloaded the wrong thing.
retox 6y ago
I was told a story about the Dropbox sales team a while back that swore me off using them. They contacted the company I worked at, that didn't have a business contract with Dropbox, offering a great deal and a meeting was quickly arranged. The meeting (which I only heard about secondhand from a good friend) quickly turned into a strong-arm operation. Dropbox had 'detected' that employees at our company were using Dropbox and it would be unfortunate if their stored files were no longer available and it would be in our best interest to sign up for a business account or we might legally be in breach of some terms of service. Some detective work later it was determined that people had been signed in to Dropbox from company machines, but there were no accounts opened with a company email and nothing business related was being synced. All Dropbox binaries and network connections have been blocked since.
- protomyth 6y ago
  Well, the tactic worked for Oracle, and I would assume some of those lawyers landed at other SV companies. Although, to be fair to Oracle, they didn't do dark pattern stuff when I used them.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    The problem for Dropbox is that social media makes these strong arm tactics harder, as the victims have an opportunity to put the company on blast publicly and trash their reputation. 20 years ago companies could do this repeatedly for a longer period of time before they’d gain a reputation for being scummy.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    But then look at how their "cloud" is doing. Is anyone anywhere in SV building new products on top of Oracle?
    - protomyth 6y ago
      Oracle isn't an SV focused company. There is plenty of money in all those non-tech businesses to be a big winner.
jo-m 6y ago
A year ago, I replaced Dropbox with Syncthing [1] for all my private use. It syncs directly between your devices without need for a central server (except for device discovery). I use it without an always-on instance (NAS, cloud server), so it only syncs when my Laptop and Phone are on at the same time. This is enough for me. It just works (TM). [1] https://syncthing.net/ https://syncthing.net/
- youbookface 6y ago
  > The Syncthing Foundation stands against racism! Read about what we're doing. Ugh, is anyone tired of every website's insistent virtue signaling?
  - Zelphyr 6y ago
    Yes, but I feel like in the end it'll do more good than harm.
    - youbookface 6y ago
      I'm sure all the racists that read that will change their views. No, it's really just obnoxious, imagine meeting a person for the first time and they say "Hi, my name is youbookface, and I'll have you know that I'm not a racist and here's a list of all the organization I've donated to!"
- F00Fbug 6y ago
  I did the same thing. I use Syncthing for a bunch of thing and it really works well. I'm in the process of rebuilding my offsite backup machine with it. I make a local backup of all my digital pictures and will soon use Syncthing to move a copy of that backup to a relative's house in another state. Even if my house burns down I'll have all my media. The offsite box is a 10 year old desktop running Debian with a 12Tb drive in it. Backup server is set to "send only" and offsite copy is set to "receive only" so it's a one-way pipe.
ismaildonmez 6y ago
This has been so since a year or so, still very annoying.
rightisleft 6y ago
I saw this a week ago and refused it as well...
mxuribe 6y ago
Upon hearing about this, my reflex was to wonder if google is in talks to acquire dropbox...but then i thought it through and just didn't see why the owner of google drive would want to acquire the owner of dropbox. To the original point, yeah, pretty crappy. My hope is that when i go file my taxes, or renew my auto registration, or interact with "real" official and important stuff, that i do not get asked for my FAANG credentials.
baggachipz 6y ago
Remember when this(1) was Dropbox? Remember how beloved it was because it did a thing and did it well, without complicating things or being actively user-hostile? Well, of course it's been fully MBA'd at this point, a true shame. (1) https://i.ibb.co/w6zcwYW/Screen-Shot-2021-01-15-at-10-49-22-AM.png https://i.ibb.co/w6zcwYW/Screen-Shot-2021-01-15-at-10-49-22-...
- Zelphyr 6y ago
  Kind-of sounds like Steve Jobs was right in what he told Drew Houston: Dropbox is a feature, not a product. Houston disagreed and they've spent all this time ever since trying to prove Jobs wrong. Meanwhile Apple built iCloud and Microsoft built OneDrive into their operating systems.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Link to answer: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Dropbox-more-popular-than-other-programs-with-similar-functionality/answer/Michael-Wolfe https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Dropbox-more-popular-than-other... I remember reading this when it was first written. Ironically, Quora was also much simpler and better back then before turning into a spammy bloated mess.
  - baggachipz 6y ago
    The reason I did a screenshot was because I couldn't reliably link to this answer on Quora. What a dumpster fire that site's become too.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Click on the timestamp for a direct link to the answer. Most social sites follow this UX pattern.
      - baggachipz 6y ago
        Even when I did that, it wouldn't reliably scroll to the correct location. Not sure if it's because of my ad blocking or what.
5988 6y ago
is anyone here?
Zelphyr 6y ago
Companies like Facebook with their demanding WhatsApp users provide access to private data, and now Dropbox demanding access to private data is highlighting an interesting phenomenon: These companies feel entitled to our private data and now are becoming hostile when they don't get it. I sincerely hope that the broader community outside of Hacker News pushes back severely on this behavior or else it will only get worse. Edit to add: These companies have such a feeling of entitlement to our data that their next move will be to try to convince legislatures to force us to give them access to it. Mark my words.
sneak 6y ago
I'm a little surprised that you don't want Dropbox to have your contacts, but store them at Google.
butz 6y ago
What is the best Dropbox alternative for Linux user? I do not want Electron based sync app and do not mind paying for secure file hosting. I'm using Dropbox as remote backup server, to complement local backups, but data size is only about 100GB.
- F00Fbug 6y ago
  Dropbox lost me (100% Linux user) when they decided that ext4 was the only file system they supported. I've very happily moved over to Syncthing. For a small installation you could use a VPS at Digital Ocean or Vultr. You could even get a Raspberry Pi and a cheap external hard drive.
rkalla 6y ago
Reading through these comments - sounds like the classic "let's squeeze blood out of this rock" behavior that tech companies like Yelp go through with the realities of "you must always be increasing profit" take hold. Anti-consumer behaviors out at the edge seem to always be the last throws for these companies.
random5634 6y ago
Damn - I was the one who fought for dropbox vs onedrive which comes with our Office 365 subscription at work. What a terrible sign! I'll try out onedrive again, and if its good enough will start the (slow) migration.
factsaresacred 6y ago
Airtable tries this too but you can still deny access, for now. Very off-putting first impressions for what is otherwise a solid app.
ukd1 6y ago
This is one of the many reasons why I prefer not use google to store contacts; you can grant the permissions, and not worry about it.
SavageBeast 6y ago
Dear Dropbox, I'm a paying customer and if you make sharing my google contacts a requirement I will cease to be a paying customer. I don't care why you did it. I don't care how great it is. I don't care how much more whatever it makes my "experience". I use Dropbox for cold storage and offsite backup - there are other ready options to serve this use case.
pengo 6y ago
My immediate thought is "why would anyone use Google or Facebook to log into other services?" I understand the desire to consolidate login credentials, but surely it's better to use a password manager than to give additional personal information to proven bad actors like Google and Facebook?
companyhen 6y ago
Check out https://ardrive.io https://ardrive.io new competitor in the storage space with an interesting model.
pan69 6y ago
This has been like this for a while, I tweeted to their support about this over a year ago. No response of course... It's a total dick-move by Dropbox since access to Contacts is clearly not necessary for Dropbox to work. However, the real problem here is obviously Google Login that only allows blanket permissions to either accept or reject. Permissions should be granular and as a user I should have the ability the "untick" access to Contacts if I don't want to give an app access to that data. If I untick a permission that is needed for app functionality, e.g. I deny camera access to a camera app, then the app simply would be able to do that feature.

618 points by poxobloc 6y ago

godzillabrennus 6y ago

DropBox seems to have decided that the only way for them to grow is to turn their data sync platform into a collaborative platform. Makes a whole lot of sense to steal contacts from all your users. FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about.

pornel 6y ago
Sadly, you can't have a product that does one thing and does it well when you have to show never-ending growth to investors :(
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Even more sadly that same thing seems to be true of FOSS applications because people think an application you aren't constantly updating and adding features to is "abandoned". Software isn't allowed to just be done anymore.
  - henriquemaia 6y ago
    Well, fortunately, there are exceptions. Case in point being XFCE. It has remained the same for years. However, your point still stands, because exceptions are just that, exceptions.
rad_gruchalski 6y ago
> FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. Interesting remark. I'm not objecting but it's interesting that this goes against what can one read here very often from people who comment on new products, which goes like this: "if you offered oauth sign up, I'd sign up but won't bother with creating an account". Just an observation.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  do you mean OpenID? I guess oauth is OK for signups if the tokens were expiring. But usually you naively give the credentials to a new startup, only to find out they abuse them months later.
  - dudul 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on that? How can they abuse it? Your oauth provider will show you which permissions the app is requesting when you grant them access. What kind of abuse have you seen?
- malka 6y ago
  I'm the opposite. 'only Google and Facebook Auth ? Can't create account ? Bye.'
  - Tepix 6y ago
    It vastly increases the tracking that FB and Google can do. Bad idea. Also, knowing Google, perhaps they one day decide to discount the oauth login feature?
    - Tepix 6y ago
      not discount, discontinue of course
beastman82 6y ago
Not following. What's wrong with oauth?
- merlinscholz 6y ago
  When Google's AI (=RNG) decides to terminate your account (maybe you typed a few too many comments on YouTube, this has happened to people), you'll lose every service for which you used Google to sign in with. Also, the usual tracking stuff.
  - arendtio 6y ago
    In addition, you are limited to the few providers which are being supported by the platform. So you can't simply create your own authentication provider as it was possible with OpenID.
  - switch007 6y ago
    Don't websites usually create an association between a local user (in their DB) and an oauth2 account, linked by the email address? And then all your data is linked to the local DB user. I guess it's a bigger threat if you don't use your own domain for email. EDIT: I'm talking about sites that also have their own local user db of course, so you could just do a password reset.
Latty 6y ago
Is there an oauth provider that offers what mobiles have started to do with permissions, where "deny" just gives empty data to to the requesting application instead of actually rejecting the claim? It'd be nice to see Google offer something like that.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Facebook does this with theirs for access to a user’s Pages. Just an empty array, which isn’t unusual for normal users. Makes it tough for third-party devs to debug a legit “I am not seeing Page X as an option” though.
arendtio 6y ago
I am not so sure if oauth is to blame alone. I mean, it is a technology that lets you control what you want to share. However, engaging in business with a partner who decides to change the rules, is something I see a lot more critical. So maybe the lesson should sound more like - 'Don't use Dropbox for anything you care about' or - 'Don't do business with large corporations for anything you care about' To clarify, I am not saying it to protect oauth (in its current state I am not a particular fan of it), but to show, that the technology doesn't change by itself and that someone decided to change it. So the company who decided to execute this unethical change should take its share of the blame too.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Isnt the point here that you don't have control? Seems like you need to allow contact access to use google login at all. There is no fine grained control to permissions.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    That's not oauth, that's just the granularity the auth provider has decided to expose in its permissions system, and the granularity Dropbox have opted to request.
    - jeromegv 6y ago
      That's oauth in the sense that if you login with your own login/pass, this will never be something they can force on you. I never use oauth, always login/pass, and don't have to care about what permissions they ask me, it's easy, they have absolutely zero access to my gmail/facebook/twitter whatever.
bayindirh 6y ago
> FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. Or, "Then create a password and revoke oauth permissions from the provider"
- mkr-hn 6y ago
  These days all browsers offer to generate and save a syncable password for you and fill in the email, so it's almost as easy to make a normal account as it is to use OAuth. It feels like OAuth/SSO is a tool for a different, less user-friendly era.
tallanvor 6y ago
> FYI - never use oauth to log into anything you care about. I definitely agree with this. While it's true that Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and Apple are probably better at securing accounts than most other companies, there's always the possibility that they can be compromised. Another problem is that if your oauth provider decides to close your account for whatever reason, it may be difficult or impossible to unlink everything from it. Not only do I create real accounts for any service I want to use, I divide them up among multiple separate email accounts, so that if one account is compromised, I limit the associated services that are vulnerable as a result.
- malka 6y ago
  My Spotify is broken since I deleted my Facebook. I can't even change the email in my profile.
  - tored 6y ago
    Contact Spotify support. Had a similar problem where I had a leftover Facebook-Spotify account after delinking that blocked my normal account from changing my email. Spotify support was quick to help me.

quantumofalpha 6y ago

Isn't that against GDPR for european users?

rkangel 6y ago
I was going to say no (and I've left my logic below for posterity), but maybe you have a point. The OP can't continue to use Dropbox without giving up some more privacy. They can't even get in to get their data out (although GDPR does take care of that). Previous logic: They've asked for permission, been clear about what data they and presumably haven't prechecked anything (because they don't have control over that UI). I don't think GDPR has any protection about a vendor locking you in and then asking to change the privacy policy.
- pieno 6y ago
  Exactly. Consent must be freely given to be valid under GDPR. Here is some analysis on what this means by the European Data Protection Board:[0] “ 3.1 Free / freely given12 13. The element “free” implies real choice and control for data subjects. As a general rule, the GDPR prescribes that if the data subject has no real choice, feels compelled to consent or will endure negative consequences if they do not consent, then consent will not be valid.13 If consent is bundled up as a non-negotiable part of terms and conditions it is presumed not to have been freely given. Accordingly, consent will not be considered to be free if the data subject is unable to refuse or withdraw his or her consent without detriment.14 The notion of imbalance between the controller and the data subject is also taken into consideration by the GDPR.” [0] https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_guidelines_202005_consent_en.pdf https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_gui...
JorgeGT 6y ago
Follow-up question: are they notifying the scooped contacts that they now hold their personal data, as required by Art. 14 of the GDPR? https://gdpr-info.eu/art-14-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-14-gdpr/
Nextgrid 6y ago
It is but the GDPR isn't being enforced even against bigger and more blatant violations so there's no risk there. (please don't refute this with a link to enforcementtracker.com unless you can show me a fine that's even remotely close to being dissuasive)

lima 6y ago

Wow, this is awful. I just tried to log into my account and I can't unless I give them access to my contacts. This is completely unacceptable - feels like a ransom.

paublyrne 6y ago
You should be still able to log in with the same email with user/password, without being asked for a new permission.
- lima 6y ago
  I don't even have a password, I think.
  - mcintyre1994 6y ago
    Does requesting a password reset work? Some websites will let you set a password on an OAuth account using that.

pgt 6y ago

Hmm. My Dropbox Pro subscription renewal is coming up. Is there an alternative to Dropbox that isn't iCloud or Google Drive? I would like to pay for Tarsnap but I don't understand 250 picodollars / byte-month.

cblconfederate 6y ago
i switched to microsoft 1Drive a long time ago, works seamlessly on windows
- pedro2 6y ago
  I am repeating myself from another thread but I'm 90% sure of the answer and no-one checks: are you sure OneDrive works well? Can you sync PST files? [1] [1] https://www.eejournal.com/article/onedrive-down-the-road-to-madness/ https://www.eejournal.com/article/onedrive-down-the-road-to-...
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    I haven't had problems with files , but that might be just me. I had an issue in the past that it would crash . i removed and reinstalled and it s fixed now
overlord_tm 6y ago
Check out https://koofr.eu/ https://koofr.eu/ Disclaimer: I work there :)
Zhyl 6y ago
I use SyncThing [0]. It can work without a server if your devices are often up at the same time. Otherwise you can get a small cheap server from the provider of your choice to suit your needs. [0] https://syncthing.net/ https://syncthing.net/
- vaduz 6y ago
  SyncThing is great when it works, but its platform support is spotty at best (notably lacks official iOS version, I found the Android one to be flaky and if you try to use it on a Chromebook, straight up does not work). It's great for serverless sync between Linux, freeBSD and Windows machines, though - it generally "just works". Didn't try it on macOS or Solaris, never had the need to.

Ensorceled 6y ago

I left dropbox when they changed the full page upsell to "dropbox business" so that I couldn't easily figure out how to skip it and get on with my work. I had a paid pro account at the time. I actually had a conversation with a product manager; I checked the yes you can contact me when I cancelled my account. They simply refused to admit that an upsell was a advertisement and that disrupting my workflow on my paid, professional account for an ad was wrong. The other interesting thing about that conversation, they could not understand how a sole proprietor would see no benefit from collaboration tools and kept making up bizarre scenarios where I could use them. I actually asked them if they were a product manager or a salesperson at one point. To Dropbox's credit, that product manager didn't try to retain me, they were genuinely trying to figure out why I had quit; they just couldn't grok the reason.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Nextgrid 6y ago
> they just couldn't grok the reason It's hard to make someone understand something when their salary (and entire reputation - given that increasing engagement/retention by X% is a big selling point on a resume) depends on not understanding it.
- Ensorceled 6y ago
  Yes, but usually in that situation, the misunderstanding is intentional. This seemed a genuine inability to understand why I would quit over "a simple upsell". I am sure the inability to understand that it was a dark pattern to have no [X] or [SKIP] button was intentional :-)
  - mrjin 6y ago
    Well that was simply arrogance that can be see in almost every large organizations: they believe everyone would like their idea. The problem maybe most people do like their idea but there would be always someone does not.

saos 6y ago

For what???

madsbuch 6y ago

I recently moved away from Dropbox due to its increasing hostility. I am currently evaluating pCloud, though I am not sure they are the one I want to go with: They have some severe problems with consistency across syncs and they allow themselves to push advertisement through their desktop apps ie. they are highly intrusive. I guess I will give them the year I paid for and then move on.

nothis 6y ago
I tried about half a dozen cloud backup solutions and Dropbox, so far, is the only one who can deliver the only thing that matters to me: Consistency. Dropbox actually works and it works well. It can handle suddenly having thousands of tiny text files, it can handle a 5GB PDF, it handles foreign letters in file names and it has a sane way of determining which file version is the current one when switching between platforms. It gives me cold sweat to read headlines like this since there aren't enough alternatives to Dropbox that "just work". Similar to what happens to Apple. I have no idea why Dropbox is fucking around with their shit so much. I'd happily pay a dollar more here and there (and they just increased pricing!), just don't do bullshit in the background.
ffpip 6y ago
pCloud has terrible security. They don't even use https in all places. They also don't state what encryption they use. They rolled their own ig.

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago

Syncthing might be a good option for those that wish to migrate. It is a stable open-source solution for syncing a directory in many-to-many clients situation. The syncthing itself provides no servers. But if you wish to have a central server it could be as easy as just installing synchting on your main machine or a cheap VPS. The UI is good enough and it is stable.

2Gkashmiri 6y ago
this. i was an old bittorrent sync user when it came up, continued to use it till they made it difficult. probably from day 1. then found out about syncthing and couldnt ask for more. it does take "understanding" to get everything hooked up but once done it just works without any issues
tmslnz 6y ago
Syncthing has been working very reliably for our agency, with multiple users reading/writing to shared projects, with a NAS elected as "master" (though ST doesn't care who's who). Frankly impressive for an OSS project. However setting up and managing Syncthing is far from self-explanatory for a non-technical audience. It's OK in our case as we can hand-hold and onboard people in-house, but not ideal. Syncthing's usability would benefit immensely from an updated front-end UX, consistent across platforms. Dropbox for all its recent dark patterns and upsells is still one of the most intuitive systems. Yes, the client UX has worsened, but the core service retains a very predictable behaviour. A folder is a folder. Shared with X and Y. When un-sharing or deleting a folder or file the options are clearly communicated. Compare this with Google Drive, where a "file" can become orphaned and keep existing in limbo, where it's invisible in the browser or filesystem, but it's discoverable by search. It drove us nuts multiple times making it very hard to track access to old documents without having to update settings one-by-one, etc. Google Drive feels like an afterthought to accompany the otherwise great Docs, Slides. and Sheets.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  That's because Syncthing is a different beast. If you want something closer to Dropbox, use Nextcloud, which does basically everything Dropbox does (and more) and has the simple sharing UI you're talking about.

danpalmer 6y ago

As a product focused company trying to create a great UX, it's really quite easy to justify something like this for creating a better UX. I can imagine a PM looking at the collaboration flow, UX researcher finding friction in initiating collaboration, testing mockups where Dropbox "magically" knows your colleagues, and it getting great reception from users. Most users still don't care about privacy, most users assume email addresses are essentially fully public. This part is a better UX for the majority of users. The problem comes when there's a data leak, or when the marketing team decide to email those contacts, or some time later that could really easily be argued as "this will never happen", and may often not, but it's possible. It's details like this that differentiate the "good" product companies from the "great" product companies, specifically because the detail of "not collecting email addresses" would never be noticed by those users, by construction.

redwood 6y ago

From my perspective, Dropbox was doomed to decline ever since they made a big splash about how proud they were of moving off of public cloud in to self manage data centers. While they no doubt reduced their operating costs with that move, I couldn't help it feel that this meant that they were investing so many of their precious mental cycles, hiring cycles, maintenance cycles, into plumbing instead of user-centered innovation which was their original sweet spot. What was celebrated at the time as a great example of how cloud is a big mistake for people to me is in fact the opposite and should be used in future as a good business case study. Folks never think about the opportunity cost; they get blinded by $$$ figures which are so misleading

delfinom 6y ago
There's no reason why an org can't multitask their future plans. They more or less were forced to cut their own costs because their competitors owned the infrastructure they run on, they could never run cheaper than their competitors. Any good business leaves business roadmaps to different executives. Infrastructure doesn't need to be the primary concern of sales and product managers who should be plotting the growth of the company externally while a CTO is left to handle the "internal growth" of the company to match. Their true problem regardless is staying relevant in a market where the competitors offer better value through bundling as entire IT and cloud platforms. There's no point for businesses to use Dropbox when Microsoft provides Onedrive for Windows businesses and Google provides gdrive with gsuite. Hell for consumers, Apple and Microsoft provide seamlessly integrated storage in their operating systems. Dropbox can spend years developing their own office suite tools but they'll never be able to breach the brainshare and stability that the titans provide. There's only so many ways you can "innovate" file handling before you are flogging a dead horse or repainting a car tire for the 50th time. Dropbox's only chance was to breach heavily into cloud office suites _before_ google and microsoft jumped in full speed, which they didn't and the ship has sailed. Does it mean they can't stay alive? Well, they are floundering and playing catch up is difficult. Even Box is eating their business lunch and carving a niche because they offer a true professional business interface for IT admins to configure everything, down to legal compliance requirements. Dropbox is a fucking toy in comparison too focused on minimal hipster UIs based on a design language they originally used for consumers and have tried to force it onto business for more years than they should have.

hatmatrix 6y ago

Do you need Google login though? I think for every platform I have created a separate account (and don't link them together).

ytch 6y ago
Me too. I buy a domain and setup a forward-all email server. For example, github@mydomain.dev for github. With a password manager, I won't confused at login. And most importantly, use fb@mydomain.dev at Facebook since I will see AD on Facebook about what I just browsed on another shopping site with the same email account.
- YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
  "Facebook container" can be useful here
  - ytch 6y ago
    Facebook AD can target user by email /phone number: https://www.facebook.com/business/help/170456843145568?id=2469097953376494 https://www.facebook.com/business/help/170456843145568?id=24... Container is not work in this case. But I use it too, it is useful on prevent me being tracked on random website.

grishka 6y ago

I really wish mobile OSes would allow you to grant apps permissions but serve fake data, (that's important!) without giving the app the ability to tell the difference. Just so it appears to the app that you've given the permission, when you in fact have not. This would solve this entire class of problems and then some. So, for example: - App "has" access to contacts, but the system returns that you have none. - App "has" access to location, but the search for GPS satellites never completes. - App "has" access to storage, but it's actually /dev/null.

tomsmeding 6y ago
While for contacts and location that would be a good feature (I agree!), I'm not so sure about storage. It may be nice for certain rogue apps (or ones that request permissions they don't actually need) to give them /dev/null without them knowing, but that may actually result in bugs and unstable behaviour if apps are written to expect working storage. Storage doesn't have a built-in failure mode like contacts and location have.
- grishka 6y ago
  Okay, you're probably right. It might be a better option to give an app a sandboxed storage location instead, just so the files it put there remain there because it might expect to find them there later.
  - dmd 6y ago
    ... isn't that exactly what access to storage does? Do any (mobile) platforms give access to NON sandboxed storage?
    - Ensorceled 6y ago
      No, sandboxed means restricted to that application. Apps need permissions to access data outside of their sandbox. They are suggesting that there be another sandboxed storage for apps that pretends to be read data.

pmlnr 6y ago

People are still using dropbox in the age of one-click nextclouds in aws, freenas, digitalocean, etc? Interesting.

piva00 6y ago
And we've come full circle from Dropbox's initial announcement post [1] to this post, almost 14 years later. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
bovermyer 6y ago
You know, this could easily be taken in a condescending way. I choose to use <insert name of service provider here> instead of rolling my own because I don't want to deal with the hassle. And before you say "but it's a one-click install! what hassle?" I'll answer you: the hassle is not in launching it, the hassle is in keeping it online and operating well at all times. People always forget about maintenance when they spout these things...
dreamcompiler 6y ago
Dropbox is dramatically cheaper per GB than the other cloud storage services, and it doesn't charge bandwidth fees.
durnygbur 6y ago
> nextclouds in aws Now make the owncloud/nextcloud a reliable experience for more than one user, handle updates and occassional migrations, etc.
PUFFhPhEHo 6y ago
For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software.

kmfrk 6y ago

iCloud Drive is actually pretty decent now, except it seems to be completely random when it wants to sync files on Windows. Even so, it can still easily cover 50% of use cases for Dropbox.

PhantomGremlin 6y ago
It's also "completely random" as to when it wants to sync files from MacOS to iOS. So at least it's consistent that way. :) It is often instantaneous for files to sync from my Macbook to my iPhone. Other times it takes many hours. I haven't found a GUI option to force a sync.

joshxyz 6y ago

Airtable too lol

poxobloc 6y ago
Ah! So that was the service where I was able to continue logging in by selecting Deny/Cancel! I believe in AirTable you can get around this. Not on Dropbox.

confiq 6y ago

why people would use oauth for services like this? I always use anonymous email

ffpip 6y ago
More convenient. No passwords, and better security. Everything is centralized (disadvantage too) Also, "why people would use anonymous email for services like this? I always use oauth"
- confiq 6y ago
  as for password, I use password manager. Problem with oauth that I can't make e-mail unique and I can't know where spam is coming from. ex: user+dropbox@mydomain.com will be unique for that domain.
chaz6 6y ago
I miss when OpenID was a thing and I could run my own iDP, but that didn't catch on because everyone wanted to be the iDP and not an RP. These days it's a cabal of a few big companies.
- confiq 6y ago
  yes, this could be designed much much better.

paride5745 6y ago

I've got a Synology NAS and I keep OneDrive for documents I might need in case of emergency. Dropbox has no reason to exists for me. Firstly, they want to force me which filesystem to use on my Linux box, secondly, I already have plenty of GBs on Google Drive and MS OneDrive, so why would I need another service is beyond me. I mean, it's not like Dropbox is a safe encrypted alternative to GDrive or OneDrive anyway...

mtzet 6y ago
They do provide provide first-party Linux support, which Google and Microsoft lack. What other reason should I have for trusting Microsoft or Google over Dropbox? (Serious question, I've been considering my cloud sync provider recently).
- teraku 6y ago
  There are working open source clients for OneDrive. You can just encrypt the data you pump into OneDrive (or any cloud provider you don't trust) and just use it for quick online access and then sync everything into your local NAS/server.
  - paride5745 6y ago
    Exactly this. I have my data on my NAS and I keep on Onedrive and GDrive only what I might need while around.

beshrkayali 6y ago

As an alternative, I recently setup Nextcloud on an Ubuntu running vm using the snap package[1] and it took around 30 minutes in total. 1: https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud-snap https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud-snap

frankzander 6y ago
Nextcloud works quite well. And you have also a calendar and some other nice features which DropBox not provides. Also the desktop sync client as well as the android client(s) works quite well.
- beshrkayali 6y ago
  Yeah, those little applets are pretty useful. It does feel somewhat slugish if you enable many tho. Sync works perfectly for my use case.
avh02 6y ago
I did the same some months ago - just a heads up that it's not without it's rough edges, but definitely does a near-enough-to-what-i-want job. I've noticed a few unsynced images and am currently struggling to get the android app to stop trying to sync a gigantic folder.
- beshrkayali 6y ago
  I was using the docker image with my own ansible/nginx setup before but I found that maintaining required a little more attention that I'd like to give it, so I decided to give the snap package a go. One nice thing is that it self-updates automatically. What sort of issues did you encounter?
  - avh02 6y ago
    Server side's actually okay, I think the android app has a number of bugs. For example I tried to set a folder with several thousand pieces of media and a few other files to auto upload and it'd keep triggering "nextcloud is not responding" pop-ups on my phone. It's ~6 gigs but didn't complete for two painful days. It was almost impossible to open the app cos it's intensely trying to sync that folder. I thought I managed to cancel it yesterday and remove the folder from auto uploads but today it's trying to upload the contents of that folder again even though I can't find it in my auto upload setup. I've also felt it misses instant uploads once in a while but never investigated to prove that or the circumstances so take that with a grain of salt

poxobloc 6y ago

OP here. Just to clarify some confusion. I can still login using my username and password. I just liked the simplicity of logging in via Google, since I was already logged in there. Seems like I'm no longer able to do that and, from what I read here, some users might be completely locked out unless they give access to Google contacts.

lsaferite 6y ago
I stopped using Google login a while back after having a hard time moving an account to a different google account. I realized that the benefits do not outweigh the problems AND that I really didn't want Google being the gatekeeper to all these other accounts. It's also what has started me on the path of moving off of all Google products. I still like Google, but the honeymoon is certainly over.

DaWe 6y ago

Hi, I'm working on a Dropbox alternative where only you own your data. It's still in beta, but files are already stored on the decentralized Sia Skynet network and only you have access because all files are encrypted with your key! https://marstorage.hns.siasky.net/ https://marstorage.hns.siasky.net/

kwhitefoot 6y ago
How does one register?

Timpy 6y ago

Thanks for sharing this, I've been trying to move away from Google Drive and I was about to go all in on Dropbox. The recent layoffs made me question Dropbox a little but this is the final nail in the coffin. I'm looking for something Linux friendly if anybody has a solution they're loving right now. Backblaze B2 maybe?

tmslnz 6y ago

Many of us here are taking the opportunity to suggest Syncthing. I second that. We have been using it for years in our studio, moving much more data than it would ever be possible or practical with Dropbox and never had a bad surprise. We were also pleasantly surprised to see it working flawlessly behind a fairly thick NAT/Firewall when working from home. It's very stable, resilient and easy to set up for anyone lurking on HN. However it is not as easy as Dropbox to set up for non-technical peeps, which is a bit of a shame as it hinders broader adoption.

benhurmarcel 6y ago
Also there's no iOS app.

a3n 6y ago

I dropped DropBox when they put Condoleezza Rice on the board. Thanks for reminding me that that was a good move.

chinathrow 6y ago
Same here, and I told everyone else. The site is still up. https://www.drop-dropbox.com/ https://www.drop-dropbox.com/

j45 6y ago

There are some easy to access alternatives not to use Dropbox. I'll be canceling my 10+ year subscription. Also this is an great example of why to always create accounts under an email address you type in, not an identity service through faang.

emaro 6y ago

> Interesting that they chose this route when users are getting more and more privacy-aware. Agreed. But it's also funny, because 'privacy-aware' and 'Google login' is a bit of a paradox.

donohoe 6y ago

*sigh* I would pay a lot of money for a service like the one Dropbox was in in its first few years. That is the service that I need now, not all this shiny crud. I've been a Dropbox user for 12+ years. I imagine it as buying a car 10 years ago because it solved all your mobility needs (shopping, occasional longer trips, dropping kids/family members to their events etc). You wander into the garage 12 years later and you have this monstrosity with five wheels, built-in backseat crayons, 20-feet long, flippers, and just two functional doors. I don't need that. I certainly don't want that, and I'm actively looking to move away when my annual renewal comes up.

driverdan 6y ago
The car analogy is a good one. Try finding a decent new car that doesn't come with a cell connection and respects your privacy.
- nicbou 6y ago
  I'm more concerned by how they tie the car to short-lived services and technologies. A car shouldn't be obsoleted by the software that powers its dashboard.
bryanmgreen 6y ago
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile... And you may find yourself paying for 5TB of cloud storage with feature bloat... And you may ask yourself, "Well... how did I get here?"
sethhochberg 6y ago
Depending on your platforms of choice, iCloud Drive has been a great solution for me. I was an early Dropbox user who got out when they started limiting the number of syncing devices for free accounts a while back, and the $0.99 a month I pay to Apple for 50GB of storage in a folder that appears on all my devices works exactly like I want it to - I save stuff there, and then forget about it until I need it, and its magically on whatever device I'm using. Sync could be a feature, or sync could be a product. But the lesson seems to be that if your product is sync, and you grow big and take lots of outside money to do it, sync won't be your product for very long. You'll need to expand and try to do everything else that could use good sync as a feature.

jijji 6y ago

is Samba really that hard to setup?

p_l 6y ago
A lot of dropbox use cases are impossible for Samba (among other things, shared dropbox folders became popular alternative to badly setup FTP servers in DTP-adjacent media companies).
protomyth 6y ago
No, but Samba is not a replacement for DropBox.

Lio 6y ago

I find this sort of thing goes hand in hand with the "Maybe Later" culture. You want to say "No." but you can't, they've taken that option away from you. Instead you're forced to give them permission to bug you again later.

swiley 6y ago

There's syncthing now, no need for dropbox.

F00Fbug 6y ago
I'm happy to see so many people advocating Syncthing... Nothing like rolling your own!
- swiley 6y ago
  Syncthing isn't rolling your own, it's just an app you run. Rolling your own would be shoving git in crontab or something crazy like that.

WanderPanda 6y ago

Am I the only one infinitely annoyed by dropbox hiding the download button in a context menu?!

gus_massa 6y ago
And if you right click on the link to the file, it downloads the html page that shows the file, using the name of the file. So when you open the file locally, you get a corrupt file message because you downloaded the wrong thing.

retox 6y ago

I was told a story about the Dropbox sales team a while back that swore me off using them. They contacted the company I worked at, that didn't have a business contract with Dropbox, offering a great deal and a meeting was quickly arranged. The meeting (which I only heard about secondhand from a good friend) quickly turned into a strong-arm operation. Dropbox had 'detected' that employees at our company were using Dropbox and it would be unfortunate if their stored files were no longer available and it would be in our best interest to sign up for a business account or we might legally be in breach of some terms of service. Some detective work later it was determined that people had been signed in to Dropbox from company machines, but there were no accounts opened with a company email and nothing business related was being synced. All Dropbox binaries and network connections have been blocked since.

protomyth 6y ago
Well, the tactic worked for Oracle, and I would assume some of those lawyers landed at other SV companies. Although, to be fair to Oracle, they didn't do dark pattern stuff when I used them.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  The problem for Dropbox is that social media makes these strong arm tactics harder, as the victims have an opportunity to put the company on blast publicly and trash their reputation. 20 years ago companies could do this repeatedly for a longer period of time before they’d gain a reputation for being scummy.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  But then look at how their "cloud" is doing. Is anyone anywhere in SV building new products on top of Oracle?
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Oracle isn't an SV focused company. There is plenty of money in all those non-tech businesses to be a big winner.

jo-m 6y ago

A year ago, I replaced Dropbox with Syncthing [1] for all my private use. It syncs directly between your devices without need for a central server (except for device discovery). I use it without an always-on instance (NAS, cloud server), so it only syncs when my Laptop and Phone are on at the same time. This is enough for me. It just works (TM). [1] https://syncthing.net/ https://syncthing.net/

youbookface 6y ago
> The Syncthing Foundation stands against racism! Read about what we're doing. Ugh, is anyone tired of every website's insistent virtue signaling?
- Zelphyr 6y ago
  Yes, but I feel like in the end it'll do more good than harm.
  - youbookface 6y ago
    I'm sure all the racists that read that will change their views. No, it's really just obnoxious, imagine meeting a person for the first time and they say "Hi, my name is youbookface, and I'll have you know that I'm not a racist and here's a list of all the organization I've donated to!"
F00Fbug 6y ago
I did the same thing. I use Syncthing for a bunch of thing and it really works well. I'm in the process of rebuilding my offsite backup machine with it. I make a local backup of all my digital pictures and will soon use Syncthing to move a copy of that backup to a relative's house in another state. Even if my house burns down I'll have all my media. The offsite box is a 10 year old desktop running Debian with a 12Tb drive in it. Backup server is set to "send only" and offsite copy is set to "receive only" so it's a one-way pipe.

ismaildonmez 6y ago

This has been so since a year or so, still very annoying.

rightisleft 6y ago

I saw this a week ago and refused it as well...

mxuribe 6y ago

Upon hearing about this, my reflex was to wonder if google is in talks to acquire dropbox...but then i thought it through and just didn't see why the owner of google drive would want to acquire the owner of dropbox. To the original point, yeah, pretty crappy. My hope is that when i go file my taxes, or renew my auto registration, or interact with "real" official and important stuff, that i do not get asked for my FAANG credentials.

baggachipz 6y ago

Remember when this(1) was Dropbox? Remember how beloved it was because it did a thing and did it well, without complicating things or being actively user-hostile? Well, of course it's been fully MBA'd at this point, a true shame. (1) https://i.ibb.co/w6zcwYW/Screen-Shot-2021-01-15-at-10-49-22-AM.png https://i.ibb.co/w6zcwYW/Screen-Shot-2021-01-15-at-10-49-22-...

Zelphyr 6y ago
Kind-of sounds like Steve Jobs was right in what he told Drew Houston: Dropbox is a feature, not a product. Houston disagreed and they've spent all this time ever since trying to prove Jobs wrong. Meanwhile Apple built iCloud and Microsoft built OneDrive into their operating systems.
manigandham 6y ago
Link to answer: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Dropbox-more-popular-than-other-programs-with-similar-functionality/answer/Michael-Wolfe https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Dropbox-more-popular-than-other... I remember reading this when it was first written. Ironically, Quora was also much simpler and better back then before turning into a spammy bloated mess.
- baggachipz 6y ago
  The reason I did a screenshot was because I couldn't reliably link to this answer on Quora. What a dumpster fire that site's become too.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Click on the timestamp for a direct link to the answer. Most social sites follow this UX pattern.
    - baggachipz 6y ago
      Even when I did that, it wouldn't reliably scroll to the correct location. Not sure if it's because of my ad blocking or what.

5988 6y ago

is anyone here?

Zelphyr 6y ago

Companies like Facebook with their demanding WhatsApp users provide access to private data, and now Dropbox demanding access to private data is highlighting an interesting phenomenon: These companies feel entitled to our private data and now are becoming hostile when they don't get it. I sincerely hope that the broader community outside of Hacker News pushes back severely on this behavior or else it will only get worse. Edit to add: These companies have such a feeling of entitlement to our data that their next move will be to try to convince legislatures to force us to give them access to it. Mark my words.

sneak 6y ago

I'm a little surprised that you don't want Dropbox to have your contacts, but store them at Google.

butz 6y ago

What is the best Dropbox alternative for Linux user? I do not want Electron based sync app and do not mind paying for secure file hosting. I'm using Dropbox as remote backup server, to complement local backups, but data size is only about 100GB.

F00Fbug 6y ago
Dropbox lost me (100% Linux user) when they decided that ext4 was the only file system they supported. I've very happily moved over to Syncthing. For a small installation you could use a VPS at Digital Ocean or Vultr. You could even get a Raspberry Pi and a cheap external hard drive.

rkalla 6y ago

Reading through these comments - sounds like the classic "let's squeeze blood out of this rock" behavior that tech companies like Yelp go through with the realities of "you must always be increasing profit" take hold. Anti-consumer behaviors out at the edge seem to always be the last throws for these companies.

random5634 6y ago

Damn - I was the one who fought for dropbox vs onedrive which comes with our Office 365 subscription at work. What a terrible sign! I'll try out onedrive again, and if its good enough will start the (slow) migration.

factsaresacred 6y ago

Airtable tries this too but you can still deny access, for now. Very off-putting first impressions for what is otherwise a solid app.

ukd1 6y ago

This is one of the many reasons why I prefer not use google to store contacts; you can grant the permissions, and not worry about it.

SavageBeast 6y ago

Dear Dropbox, I'm a paying customer and if you make sharing my google contacts a requirement I will cease to be a paying customer. I don't care why you did it. I don't care how great it is. I don't care how much more whatever it makes my "experience". I use Dropbox for cold storage and offsite backup - there are other ready options to serve this use case.

pengo 6y ago

My immediate thought is "why would anyone use Google or Facebook to log into other services?" I understand the desire to consolidate login credentials, but surely it's better to use a password manager than to give additional personal information to proven bad actors like Google and Facebook?

companyhen 6y ago

Check out https://ardrive.io https://ardrive.io new competitor in the storage space with an interesting model.

pan69 6y ago

This has been like this for a while, I tweeted to their support about this over a year ago. No response of course... It's a total dick-move by Dropbox since access to Contacts is clearly not necessary for Dropbox to work. However, the real problem here is obviously Google Login that only allows blanket permissions to either accept or reject. Permissions should be granular and as a user I should have the ability the "untick" access to Contacts if I don't want to give an app access to that data. If I untick a permission that is needed for app functionality, e.g. I deny camera access to a camera app, then the app simply would be able to do that feature.