18 ms·

American Apathy: Our Declining Interest in Covid-19 Cases and Deaths

57 points by amoorthy 6y ago

guscost 6y ago
Think it has something to do with the ubiquitous breakdown of mental health, leading to cultural war and inevitable cultural Balkanization, at a minimum?
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Outrage/vigilance fatigue.
  - guscost 6y ago
    Sure, call it what you want. Maybe “social burnout”.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
throwarayes 6y ago
I question the supposition. We are interested. Since November, many I know went from occasionally seeing friends outside socially distant to keeping to themselves. People don’t need to google about it, we know it’s bad. Of courses search metrics will decline. Emotionally, I think we feel defeated. We’re counting down the days till a functional government can be put in place and forestall disaster. It feels like everyday we need to wait causes more needless death. But sadly there’s little we can do about this.
- bmj 6y ago
  I also wonder if there is better reporting of the data, so searches are not necessary. For example, I can read my local news online, and get the appropriate daily numbers for both the country and my county.
  - soylentcola 6y ago
    That's what I was wondering as well. I can't imagine it applies to everyone in every region, but after Jan/Feb 2020, I personally didn't need to search Google (or wherever) for this info because it became a prominent feature on the landing page of the NYT and other news outlets I check fairly frequently. The trend is pronounced enough that there's likely more at play than just "see on website instead of searching" but "I already know it's bad so I don't bother looking it up" and "I already see this data regularly on other outlets without specifically searching for it" surely combine to cause some of this result.
- shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  I'm not sure what a future government can do. Early on, some crucial things come to mind (Federal mask mandate, directing Federal funds to rapid testing and PPE), but, now, the wildfire rages everywhere. Making vaccines free, including for illegal immigrants (it's incredibly stupid and self-defeating to deny it to them, as some places have purportedly done), and directing a lot of resources toward distribution and education are the only obvious things to me. Like in an RPG, some countries put points into skill trees that lets them handle this kind of problem very well. If the U.S. has a weakness, culturally, legally, economically, and geographically, a pandemic is it; it's just not the kind of thing it ever specced to handle.
  - pdonis 6y ago
    > Federal mask mandate I'm not sure what difference that would make since masks are already mandated everywhere by state and local authorities. The real issue with masks is that (a) many people don't wear them properly (I routinely see people with it only over their mouth, not their nose, or with a huge gap between their face and the mask) and (b) anything that covers your face qualifies as a "mask", no matter how coarse the weave of whatever material it is made of.
    - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      People say this but the obvious point is that flu numbers are much lower if not vanishingly small, suggesting people are in fact largely complying with mitigation efforts. So the only argument I see otherwise is that there's some radical difference in the R number between the viruses such that masks only lower substantially enough for flu and not SARS-CoV-2. But that's a much more specific argument that I don't see being argued much less substantiated and proven.
      - pdonis 6y ago
        > flu numbers are much lower if not vanishingly small, suggesting people are in fact largely complying with mitigation efforts The flu viruses are a different class of virus (rhinovirus) from SARS-CoV-2 (coronavirus) and could be expected to be affected differently by mitigation efforts. I don't know that the much lower flu numbers tell us that people are wearing masks properly; they could be due simply to social distancing and people staying home. Also, AFAIK there is not significant evidence of transmission of flu by asymptomatic people, whereas there is for COVID-19, so it is easier for people to avoid transmitting flu by self-isolating if they have symptoms.
- sp332 6y ago
  Exactly, I already have my sources for updates and I don't need to search anymore.
klmadfejno 6y ago
Eh, count me in those stats I guess. I don't know if apathy is the right term though. I searched for stats fairly frequently but not anymore. We have a vaccine, the story isn't likely to change much for a while. I will continue distancing in relative isolation which has kept me from getting ill for a year now. Maybe it won't in the next few months, but I kind of doubt it. What exactly would I learn from searching about the latest COVID death stats? We're beyond the point of arguing with others about on takes on it. It's no longer a political issue of paramount importance. Things are likely to get worse for a month or two and then gradually get significantly better.
- soared 6y ago
  Agreed. Without looking at the stats I can tell you new cases and deaths are pretty much the highest they’ve ever been.
- moate 6y ago
  >>It's no longer a political issue of paramount importance. Found the guy who can afford to pay his rent/bills and buy food!
  - gowld 6y ago
    How does me debating COVID now help anyone pay their bills?
  - seankimdesign 6y ago
    I'd argue that if anything, people who have difficulties paying bills and buying groceries have even less capacity to perform daily online searches for COVID deaths.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    Something can be important without it being politically important. COVID was very politically important when we were choosing a president. Now the gameplan seems more or less settled.
grecy 6y ago
It's hard to grasp the fact 4,000 Americas are dying each and every day from COVID. When 3,000 died in 9/11 it was an outrage, but now it's more than that each and every day and everyone has become numb to it.
- throwarayes 6y ago
  Yeah I don’t need to google and stare at dashboards to have some situational awareness. Usually it comes up in texts or conversation “yeah we’re at 1.5 9/11s a day now”. Which sadly is likely to be true for some time and not change :(. It’s depressingly normal.
  - xur17 6y ago
    It's depressingly normal, and it doesn't feel like there's much you can do to help it. Wear a mask, avoid social gatherings, etc, but beyond that I'm at a loss as to what an individual can really do to help, hence the apathy.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  About 7,700 people die on any average day in America. Roughly 1,800 a day from heart disease, 1500 from cancer, and 450 from accidents. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm I imagine people would act a bit differently if we had heart disease charts and graphs plastered on the front of every major news site.
  - grecy 6y ago
    Absolutely, though I think the numbers prove my point. What single cause has resulted in 4,000 daily deaths, day in and day out for weeks on end? (and likely for many more months to come)
    - cwhiz 6y ago
      I don't know of any, but I am also not sure that the distinction of "single cause" is important. The deaths above expected will tell the full story. How many days were there 4,000+ deaths above expected? Probably quite a few, but less than people think.
tathougies 6y ago
It's not surprising, and it's disingenuous to accuse people of apathy. In several flu seasons, hospitals have been overwhelmed, tent beds set up, etc, and most people don't care because the flu is 'normal'. COVID is becoming 'normal', which is good, because it's not going away, so we all need to learn to deal with it. This is like accusing those in the 50s for being apathetic about polio, because they didn't upend their entire life to protect their children from this incredibly deadly and disfiguring disease. When humans are confronted with a problem they simply cannot meaningfully prevent, they tend to ignore it and get on with their lives.
avgDev 6y ago
Everyone is tired of COVID. I stopped looking at the numbers daily, but still take a look at least once a week. We have a baby, it is hard to see doctors/dentists as we don't want to take him there. We never go to stores together and someone needs to watch him. Daycare doesn't seem safe yet for us, so we are doing our best. Majority of parents work, many kids now study from home. This is putting an insane pressure on the parents. I'm not suffering from "psychic numbing", by now I know the risks, I am just TIRED physically and mentally. What else can an average citizen do? Distance, wear a mask, suck it up and wait for your turn to get a vaccine. Searching COVID daily does nothing.
- reader_mode 6y ago
  My wife is pregnant so I want to avoid complications and that's why I've been stricter on social distancing - but assuming your baby is more mature and you don't have preexisting conditions/are in 30s why would you be avoiding doctor/dentist - it seems excessive. From what I understand under 30 there's a greater risk of complications from flu sideeffects than COVID. You shouldn't be visiting risk groups anyway and I'm not saying go out to party but avoiding useful activities seems excessive. My wife won't be vaccinated till she starts breastfeeding and neither will my infant buy I won't avoid doctor appointments because of it.
  - avgDev 6y ago
    We are not avoiding doctors or dentists. We just don't want to take our baby with this makes scheduling quite difficult. Covid can be dangerous with 0 pre-existing conditions. I'm not talking about survival rates here. Many are having ongoing issues with breathing months after covid. If every individual did only the essential things, and cut down on unnecessary contact, US would not be where it is today.
rhacker 6y ago
Well, all I can say is to the people about 6 months ago (on hacker news) that said the death rate was now under control because of things we were doing. I told you so. It was the natural vitamin D that helped during the summer. All we can do now is try to encourage doctors and hospitals to start administering cholecalciferol at large bolus doses. https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  In many European countries the infection curve literally plummeted in May, long before anyone could have possibly replenished their levels naturally, some being under strict lockdown.
- technothrasher 6y ago
  If the death rate was reduced due to sun exposure leading to more vitamin D in people's systems, then wouldn't the southern hemisphere show an opposite cycle to the northern hemisphere? I'm not seeing that in the current data.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    if was just Vitamin D, Brazil wouldn't be among the top 3 countries. Specially the Northeast from Brazil - where you have 365 days/year of Sun - has one of the highest numbers of COVID-19 infections. Unfortunately isn't so easy like that.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - subsubzero 6y ago
    Its because people are not getting enough vit. D. I take 2000iu daily, drink a glass of milk almost daily(along with a protein mix, for workouts). Eat Chicken|Beef|Fish daily and run almost 5 days a week in the middle of the day to get maximum sunlight in Southern California. I had a blood test a few weeks ago thinking I was over-doing it on vit. D and guess what, my levels were slightly lower than average(though not deficient). People are not getting enough in general, I would strongly suggest to request a blood test from your Dr. and up your levels via supplements or proper foods/sunlight exposure. I think in general humans are meant to be outside alot and being forced indoors has not been a good thing for us as a species.
benjohnson 6y ago
My apathy wore out once N95 masks became cheap and available - Costco will ship them to your door for $2.70 each. I wear N95 all the time in public, and if you don’t want to get this or spread it, it’s basically entirely in your power. The only excuse is that someone is mentally deficient or almost unable to draw breath.
- moate 6y ago
  1- Your first sentence implies you stopped being apathetic, which seems to run contrary to your implied point. 2- "if you don't want to get this or spread it..." that's fine, except untrue. If joe super-spreader is running around super-spreading, he's going to get kids. If you think kids suddenly stopped being high-spreading vectors, I don't think you understand children. People are stuck making tough choices (especially in the US) because they have little financial support in order to make spread-minimizing decisions. Blaming anyone who gets sick on stupidity isn't fair. A lot of people are being forced to make choices between going to a job that encourages spreading behavior or going into financial ruin. That said, a vast majority of spread is due to very stupid (or just plain reckless) people making decisions for their community.
  - benjohnson 6y ago
    Your correct - I should care more about people that need to put food on the table. However they too can wear an N95 resperator for less than $3. A supply of ten lasts about two months of rotated use. A good use of our tax dollars would be to supply them public with them.
- loblollyboy 6y ago
  I have a super snotty nose and live in a cold place so I don’t wear it outside. I walk away or cover mouth when someone gets close. But I’ve read articles that give numbers ie. x% chance of getting it if you are within y feet for z minutes in an enclosed room, so I think me walking outside without a mask is not an issue, despite the dirty looks from lots of people.
  - 6y ago
jibbit 6y ago
Out of interest, how much general awareness is there that a more infectious strain is now the dominant version in the Uk, and the situation is likely to get significantly worse in the US quite quickly?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  I don't get the sense that people realize how much more problematic it is. They've heard on the news that it spreads faster, but they haven't digested how much faster or what that means when health resources are already taxed.
rektide 6y ago
I think about the Vietnam war, my parents telling me the TV news used to broadcast the names of those who died. On the one hand, it was the first time the nation had the capability to do something like this, "the first televised war"[1]. At the same time I can't help but wonder if that was what it took, if that was the only way to get through people's me-ness, their smallness, their insular, far apart lives, and to inject some sense of the global massive proportion of what was afoot all around them, that their state was engaged in. The media took the time to attend, to focus the nation on what was happening, with the daily namings, running on and on and on, of lives lost. The media socialized the problem by _paying attention to it,_ in direct tribute to it, to the horrible costs. All these years of this administration, it has been constant relentless merciless assault on our _attention._ We talk about the attention economy? All media has been fixed on the ongoing cavalcade of schlock emitting from 1600 Pennsylvania, non stop lying[2] & affrontery right out of the gate. It makes it hard to sustain any kind of caring or thoughtfulness, when there's madcap bedlam & lying deceitful insanity working hand in hand with Senate to both pass incredible executive acts & bring in all kinds of wild completely unqualified public servants. The show keeps changing, breakneck pace of whatever three delusional soul crushing things are going to happen today. We passed the number of US military deaths of the Vietnam war in late April. Heavens, that is so long ago; it feels like we'd just started this long war then. By July we were up to a death count topping most modern wars excluding WWII[3]. But the slow rolling incremental nature of it, the jaw dropping antics & childishness & lying all about us... it's been hard. Real hard. I don't want to tell us to chin up, carry on, because this is dark days, dark material, truly a national disaster of the grandest scale. But with context, I understand some of why this our interests have not been as rapt & focused as they might have been. [1] https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2018/01/25/vietnam-the-first-television-war/ https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2018/01/25/vietnam-the-f... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/30/fact-check-us-covid-19-deaths-surpass-combat-fatalities-many-wars/5535450002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/30/fac...
ballenf 6y ago
> humans have a hard time comprehending large numbers ... the difference between no one dying and one person dying is quite large, but the difference between the 100th and 101st death is far less impactful. I think this data illustrates the exact opposite of what the researchers claim: people are actually pretty good at intuiting danger. A new danger that's never been seen is worthy of attention in a way that the 101st death is not. There's plenty of studies about the ways humans fail at assessing risk, I just think the above is not one of them. Also, news is just one type of item on everyone's data feed that's mixed with fake IG posts, fake news and dishonest ads. That approach makes as much sense as buying your groceries at the sewage treatment plant.
polka_haunts_us 6y ago
I'm just some guy, I wear a mask outside, I socially distance, all my friends and family do the same. Why EXACTLY am I supposed to continue to care about case numbers or death numbers? Am I supposed to be taking action here? Marching in the street? Arguing for hours on end with random strangers online who have already made up their mind in the contrary? Buying a gun and shooting someone for the greater good? At some point, everyone made up their mind, made their plans, voted for their politicians, what is the point of continuing to spin the wheels on this one?
- andybak 6y ago
  At one stage I was to some degree modulating the amount of caution I exhibited based on the case numbers both nationally and in my area. I was trying to do a rough cost/benefit analysis in my head whenever there was social pressue to do something other than stay the hell out of everyone's way. (Things have got bad enough in the UK since then that I'm now able to do the simpler thing - which is just stay the hell out of everyone's way. Much less taxing on the brain)
- subsubzero 6y ago
  I agree, I am totally drained of everything covid, its been 24/7 news saturation since March(exceptions being election, BLM protests). Once I get my shots and my family gets theirs I am going to take a much needed and extended break from the news.
  - adolph 6y ago
    The lack of major outbreaks post-BLM was something that made me go "Hmmm."
    - DanBC 6y ago
      B117 variant wasn't circulating then, and we've known for a while that while it's not "no risk" outdoor activity is "lower risk". (EDIT: I'm not suggesting that meeting people outside is a good idea, I think lockdowns are needed, especially with B117 around). Here's a respected not-idiot virologist talking about it. https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1348771251758784517?s=20 https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1348771251758784517?s=2...
meekmockmook 6y ago
It's not apathy, it's fatigue. It's been 10 months of terror and horror and people use whatever mental tricks they can to stay sane.
- war1025 6y ago
  > It's not apathy, it's fatigue. I absolutely agree. > It's been 10 months of terror and horror I blame this squarely on the saturation coverage it has been given by media networks. People need time to hear themselves think or they'll go nuts. Politicians haven't been terribly helpful either. I personally find it hard to get too worked up over it anymore. When my neighbor caught it in July, I was very concerned for him. He was the first person I knew personally to catch it and I was worried for his health. Thankfully him an his wife and kid got through it fine. Then in September another neighbor caught it, I checked in with him daily to make sure he was coming through it okay. In October, my 98 year old grandma caught it. I thought great, this is finally the time. She's going to die from it. And then she got over it just fine. In December, I had an aunt and uncle catch it, both in their late 60s. Both got over it just fine. I learned the other day the reason I hadn't heard much out of one of my best friends is that just before Christmas him and his wife caught it. They also got over it just fine. Heard this weekend that another of my neighbors had it in their house. Also getting over it perfectly fine. I don't say all that to discount the tragedy for those who have died from it. It's a terrible thing and I wish it hadn't happened. But we were sold Ebola by the media, and we got an unusually deadly seasonal flu.
  - fistfucker3000 6y ago
    It's the knock on effects we're concerned about. The extra strain on the healthcare system: - endangers the lives of healthcare workers (they're absolutely burnt out at this point) - makes people not go to the doctor for necessary health issues - causes other emergencies to not be serviced
  - belltaco 6y ago
    Thats a series of anectdata, which will happen in any data set. >But we were sold Ebola by the media, and we got an unusually deadly seasonal flu. The current death toll is after lockdowns, social distancing, mask wearing, staggered hospitalizations etc. Without those the death toll would be in the millions, how is that just a unusually deadly seasonal flu? A bad flu season is 65k deaths. Current death toll is ~400k.
coding123 6y ago
Can you imagine the thoughts going on in these people on their death beds. Fully aware there is a vaccine and there's nothing that can help them now, if only someone had thought of THEM, helping THEM. I know this doesn't really help anything. It's just super sad. I do feel it daily. Unfortunately too part of the problem is so little actually helpful information is being distributed. What your average Joe hears is 1. death count - useful. 2. Vaccine - useful up to a point - they won't be able to get it for a while. 3. Wear a mask - useful. I think beyond this we need to make sure people know that: 1. Most cases are because of contact with asymptomatic people (AND Before that one HN person replies with that doesn't exist - it absolutely does - antibody tests are also confirming this) https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-spread-asymptomatic-website-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-spread... 2. Vitamin D is NOT your Trump conspiracy cure. It actually works and is backed up by 2 gold standard studies. We don't have more research in this area because no one is funding it. There are many other studies (not randomized/placebo) but ones looking at old people that were already previously taking vitamin D (because of their existing regimen before the pandemic) with massively better outcomes. Someone posted this link that does a nice job summarizing: https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/
- gowld 6y ago
  Vitamin D is healthful (even outside of COVID), and many many people do not have adequate Vitamin D, and a person with COVID will most likely fare better with adequate Vitamin D than not. That doesn't make Vitamin D a cure or and end to the pandemic.
  - coding123 6y ago
    Totally, but the research in that link is suggesting that death rates would drop dramatically. I don't know what they're doing in the hospitals, but the research points to a helpful direction.
pelasaco 6y ago
IMO what the author call "Apathy" we call "focus in trying to survive" and "accepting the new normal". That's exactly the same feeling and reaction that people living in Syria and Iraq have after living years in a War environment.
JIBitator 6y ago
"Covid-19" doesn't exist. That's why there is not much interest.
corby 6y ago
Idiotic article with horrible conclusions. I stopped searching for COVID because I don't have to. Every page I visit, every news site I load, has COVID numbers and news at the top of the page. It's thrown in our face every where. Even the google home page has a COVID link. I'm not apathetic at all, idiot. I'm overloaded with COVID info and numbers and death, I can't escape it.
mikem170 6y ago
Some people look at the science and numbers, and aren't that worried about it. Nothing to do with politics. Death rates have just passed 1 in 1000 people, skewing older and with co-morbidities. Double or triple that and this should burn itself out [0]. For a lot of people that is not enough risk to justify wanting to upend their lives for a year or two. New diseases are part of nature. [0] https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-cor...
cwhiz 6y ago
News organizations bombard us with negative coverage 24/7 for months on end. Endless wall to wall coverage. And now journalists are writing about American apathy. Give me a break. The front page of virtually every major news site is littered with Covid data. On an individual level, what more do you want from me? I wear a mask, haven't visited elderly relatives, haven't traveled much, etc. It feels like journalists and news organization can only survive on constant outrage. And if we aren't outraged enough, they still complain.
bokohut 6y ago
Regardless of the topic is this not how interest in any such time duration based event works on the human level? Given everything in the world is now perceived as "real-time" most can only consume so much before having no more interest for any such topic. Foregoing listing other time duration based current events here, of which globally there are many, could it also be stated that people are showing 'fatigue' for several other major issues as well? A separate topic which comes to my mind and is applicable to what I stated above is that of cybersecurity.
JoeyBananas 6y ago
I believe a lot of the things that got cancelled due to covid-19 didn't really need to be. There is somewhat of a cult centered around shutting everything down without any sense of nuance. Not enough respect has been given to the ability of people to decide for themselves what is in their best interests.
- harambae 6y ago
  Even worse is when everything isn't shut down, but some places (probably politically connected) are inexplicably left open. If absolutely everything was shut down there'd be a certain (warped) sense of fairness at least. In my town the swimming pool in my condo complex was shut down when COVID-19 began and never reopened. I was the only one who ever used it. They could've just made it maximum capacity 2 or something. Meanwhile, the bar down the street was left open until it became a superspreader event. Anecdotally, I think we've all seen the idiocy and inconsistency at all levels of government which adds to the cynicism and apathy.
rubycon22 6y ago
Yes, I am almost totally apathetic after being forced to sacrifice myself to protect the very same class/group of people who when they were younger, voted for and made the policies that got us into the messes we are in today (climate change, unaffordable homes/land, wars, etc.) for their own benefit. I'm glad Boomer Joe and Mary got to live their last few years together, but also a bit miffed that I and many of my generation have no future to speak of.

57 points by amoorthy 6y ago

Think it has something to do with the ubiquitous breakdown of mental health, leading to cultural war and inevitable cultural Balkanization, at a minimum?

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Outrage/vigilance fatigue.
- guscost 6y ago
  Sure, call it what you want. Maybe “social burnout”.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

throwarayes 6y ago

I question the supposition. We are interested. Since November, many I know went from occasionally seeing friends outside socially distant to keeping to themselves. People don’t need to google about it, we know it’s bad. Of courses search metrics will decline. Emotionally, I think we feel defeated. We’re counting down the days till a functional government can be put in place and forestall disaster. It feels like everyday we need to wait causes more needless death. But sadly there’s little we can do about this.

bmj 6y ago
I also wonder if there is better reporting of the data, so searches are not necessary. For example, I can read my local news online, and get the appropriate daily numbers for both the country and my county.
- soylentcola 6y ago
  That's what I was wondering as well. I can't imagine it applies to everyone in every region, but after Jan/Feb 2020, I personally didn't need to search Google (or wherever) for this info because it became a prominent feature on the landing page of the NYT and other news outlets I check fairly frequently. The trend is pronounced enough that there's likely more at play than just "see on website instead of searching" but "I already know it's bad so I don't bother looking it up" and "I already see this data regularly on other outlets without specifically searching for it" surely combine to cause some of this result.
shrimp_emoji 6y ago
I'm not sure what a future government can do. Early on, some crucial things come to mind (Federal mask mandate, directing Federal funds to rapid testing and PPE), but, now, the wildfire rages everywhere. Making vaccines free, including for illegal immigrants (it's incredibly stupid and self-defeating to deny it to them, as some places have purportedly done), and directing a lot of resources toward distribution and education are the only obvious things to me. Like in an RPG, some countries put points into skill trees that lets them handle this kind of problem very well. If the U.S. has a weakness, culturally, legally, economically, and geographically, a pandemic is it; it's just not the kind of thing it ever specced to handle.
- pdonis 6y ago
  > Federal mask mandate I'm not sure what difference that would make since masks are already mandated everywhere by state and local authorities. The real issue with masks is that (a) many people don't wear them properly (I routinely see people with it only over their mouth, not their nose, or with a huge gap between their face and the mask) and (b) anything that covers your face qualifies as a "mask", no matter how coarse the weave of whatever material it is made of.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    People say this but the obvious point is that flu numbers are much lower if not vanishingly small, suggesting people are in fact largely complying with mitigation efforts. So the only argument I see otherwise is that there's some radical difference in the R number between the viruses such that masks only lower substantially enough for flu and not SARS-CoV-2. But that's a much more specific argument that I don't see being argued much less substantiated and proven.
    - pdonis 6y ago
      > flu numbers are much lower if not vanishingly small, suggesting people are in fact largely complying with mitigation efforts The flu viruses are a different class of virus (rhinovirus) from SARS-CoV-2 (coronavirus) and could be expected to be affected differently by mitigation efforts. I don't know that the much lower flu numbers tell us that people are wearing masks properly; they could be due simply to social distancing and people staying home. Also, AFAIK there is not significant evidence of transmission of flu by asymptomatic people, whereas there is for COVID-19, so it is easier for people to avoid transmitting flu by self-isolating if they have symptoms.
sp332 6y ago
Exactly, I already have my sources for updates and I don't need to search anymore.

klmadfejno 6y ago

Eh, count me in those stats I guess. I don't know if apathy is the right term though. I searched for stats fairly frequently but not anymore. We have a vaccine, the story isn't likely to change much for a while. I will continue distancing in relative isolation which has kept me from getting ill for a year now. Maybe it won't in the next few months, but I kind of doubt it. What exactly would I learn from searching about the latest COVID death stats? We're beyond the point of arguing with others about on takes on it. It's no longer a political issue of paramount importance. Things are likely to get worse for a month or two and then gradually get significantly better.

soared 6y ago
Agreed. Without looking at the stats I can tell you new cases and deaths are pretty much the highest they’ve ever been.
moate 6y ago
>>It's no longer a political issue of paramount importance. Found the guy who can afford to pay his rent/bills and buy food!
- gowld 6y ago
  How does me debating COVID now help anyone pay their bills?
- seankimdesign 6y ago
  I'd argue that if anything, people who have difficulties paying bills and buying groceries have even less capacity to perform daily online searches for COVID deaths.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  Something can be important without it being politically important. COVID was very politically important when we were choosing a president. Now the gameplan seems more or less settled.

grecy 6y ago

It's hard to grasp the fact 4,000 Americas are dying each and every day from COVID. When 3,000 died in 9/11 it was an outrage, but now it's more than that each and every day and everyone has become numb to it.

throwarayes 6y ago
Yeah I don’t need to google and stare at dashboards to have some situational awareness. Usually it comes up in texts or conversation “yeah we’re at 1.5 9/11s a day now”. Which sadly is likely to be true for some time and not change :(. It’s depressingly normal.
- xur17 6y ago
  It's depressingly normal, and it doesn't feel like there's much you can do to help it. Wear a mask, avoid social gatherings, etc, but beyond that I'm at a loss as to what an individual can really do to help, hence the apathy.
cwhiz 6y ago
About 7,700 people die on any average day in America. Roughly 1,800 a day from heart disease, 1500 from cancer, and 450 from accidents. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm I imagine people would act a bit differently if we had heart disease charts and graphs plastered on the front of every major news site.
- grecy 6y ago
  Absolutely, though I think the numbers prove my point. What single cause has resulted in 4,000 daily deaths, day in and day out for weeks on end? (and likely for many more months to come)
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    I don't know of any, but I am also not sure that the distinction of "single cause" is important. The deaths above expected will tell the full story. How many days were there 4,000+ deaths above expected? Probably quite a few, but less than people think.

tathougies 6y ago

It's not surprising, and it's disingenuous to accuse people of apathy. In several flu seasons, hospitals have been overwhelmed, tent beds set up, etc, and most people don't care because the flu is 'normal'. COVID is becoming 'normal', which is good, because it's not going away, so we all need to learn to deal with it. This is like accusing those in the 50s for being apathetic about polio, because they didn't upend their entire life to protect their children from this incredibly deadly and disfiguring disease. When humans are confronted with a problem they simply cannot meaningfully prevent, they tend to ignore it and get on with their lives.

avgDev 6y ago

Everyone is tired of COVID. I stopped looking at the numbers daily, but still take a look at least once a week. We have a baby, it is hard to see doctors/dentists as we don't want to take him there. We never go to stores together and someone needs to watch him. Daycare doesn't seem safe yet for us, so we are doing our best. Majority of parents work, many kids now study from home. This is putting an insane pressure on the parents. I'm not suffering from "psychic numbing", by now I know the risks, I am just TIRED physically and mentally. What else can an average citizen do? Distance, wear a mask, suck it up and wait for your turn to get a vaccine. Searching COVID daily does nothing.

reader_mode 6y ago
My wife is pregnant so I want to avoid complications and that's why I've been stricter on social distancing - but assuming your baby is more mature and you don't have preexisting conditions/are in 30s why would you be avoiding doctor/dentist - it seems excessive. From what I understand under 30 there's a greater risk of complications from flu sideeffects than COVID. You shouldn't be visiting risk groups anyway and I'm not saying go out to party but avoiding useful activities seems excessive. My wife won't be vaccinated till she starts breastfeeding and neither will my infant buy I won't avoid doctor appointments because of it.
- avgDev 6y ago
  We are not avoiding doctors or dentists. We just don't want to take our baby with this makes scheduling quite difficult. Covid can be dangerous with 0 pre-existing conditions. I'm not talking about survival rates here. Many are having ongoing issues with breathing months after covid. If every individual did only the essential things, and cut down on unnecessary contact, US would not be where it is today.

rhacker 6y ago

Well, all I can say is to the people about 6 months ago (on hacker news) that said the death rate was now under control because of things we were doing. I told you so. It was the natural vitamin D that helped during the summer. All we can do now is try to encourage doctors and hospitals to start administering cholecalciferol at large bolus doses. https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/

hocuspocus 6y ago
In many European countries the infection curve literally plummeted in May, long before anyone could have possibly replenished their levels naturally, some being under strict lockdown.
technothrasher 6y ago
If the death rate was reduced due to sun exposure leading to more vitamin D in people's systems, then wouldn't the southern hemisphere show an opposite cycle to the northern hemisphere? I'm not seeing that in the current data.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  if was just Vitamin D, Brazil wouldn't be among the top 3 countries. Specially the Northeast from Brazil - where you have 365 days/year of Sun - has one of the highest numbers of COVID-19 infections. Unfortunately isn't so easy like that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- subsubzero 6y ago
  Its because people are not getting enough vit. D. I take 2000iu daily, drink a glass of milk almost daily(along with a protein mix, for workouts). Eat Chicken|Beef|Fish daily and run almost 5 days a week in the middle of the day to get maximum sunlight in Southern California. I had a blood test a few weeks ago thinking I was over-doing it on vit. D and guess what, my levels were slightly lower than average(though not deficient). People are not getting enough in general, I would strongly suggest to request a blood test from your Dr. and up your levels via supplements or proper foods/sunlight exposure. I think in general humans are meant to be outside alot and being forced indoors has not been a good thing for us as a species.

benjohnson 6y ago

My apathy wore out once N95 masks became cheap and available - Costco will ship them to your door for $2.70 each. I wear N95 all the time in public, and if you don’t want to get this or spread it, it’s basically entirely in your power. The only excuse is that someone is mentally deficient or almost unable to draw breath.

moate 6y ago
1- Your first sentence implies you stopped being apathetic, which seems to run contrary to your implied point. 2- "if you don't want to get this or spread it..." that's fine, except untrue. If joe super-spreader is running around super-spreading, he's going to get kids. If you think kids suddenly stopped being high-spreading vectors, I don't think you understand children. People are stuck making tough choices (especially in the US) because they have little financial support in order to make spread-minimizing decisions. Blaming anyone who gets sick on stupidity isn't fair. A lot of people are being forced to make choices between going to a job that encourages spreading behavior or going into financial ruin. That said, a vast majority of spread is due to very stupid (or just plain reckless) people making decisions for their community.
- benjohnson 6y ago
  Your correct - I should care more about people that need to put food on the table. However they too can wear an N95 resperator for less than $3. A supply of ten lasts about two months of rotated use. A good use of our tax dollars would be to supply them public with them.
loblollyboy 6y ago
I have a super snotty nose and live in a cold place so I don’t wear it outside. I walk away or cover mouth when someone gets close. But I’ve read articles that give numbers ie. x% chance of getting it if you are within y feet for z minutes in an enclosed room, so I think me walking outside without a mask is not an issue, despite the dirty looks from lots of people.
- 6y ago

jibbit 6y ago

Out of interest, how much general awareness is there that a more infectious strain is now the dominant version in the Uk, and the situation is likely to get significantly worse in the US quite quickly?

maxerickson 6y ago
I don't get the sense that people realize how much more problematic it is. They've heard on the news that it spreads faster, but they haven't digested how much faster or what that means when health resources are already taxed.

rektide 6y ago

I think about the Vietnam war, my parents telling me the TV news used to broadcast the names of those who died. On the one hand, it was the first time the nation had the capability to do something like this, "the first televised war"[1]. At the same time I can't help but wonder if that was what it took, if that was the only way to get through people's me-ness, their smallness, their insular, far apart lives, and to inject some sense of the global massive proportion of what was afoot all around them, that their state was engaged in. The media took the time to attend, to focus the nation on what was happening, with the daily namings, running on and on and on, of lives lost. The media socialized the problem by _paying attention to it,_ in direct tribute to it, to the horrible costs. All these years of this administration, it has been constant relentless merciless assault on our _attention._ We talk about the attention economy? All media has been fixed on the ongoing cavalcade of schlock emitting from 1600 Pennsylvania, non stop lying[2] & affrontery right out of the gate. It makes it hard to sustain any kind of caring or thoughtfulness, when there's madcap bedlam & lying deceitful insanity working hand in hand with Senate to both pass incredible executive acts & bring in all kinds of wild completely unqualified public servants. The show keeps changing, breakneck pace of whatever three delusional soul crushing things are going to happen today. We passed the number of US military deaths of the Vietnam war in late April. Heavens, that is so long ago; it feels like we'd just started this long war then. By July we were up to a death count topping most modern wars excluding WWII[3]. But the slow rolling incremental nature of it, the jaw dropping antics & childishness & lying all about us... it's been hard. Real hard. I don't want to tell us to chin up, carry on, because this is dark days, dark material, truly a national disaster of the grandest scale. But with context, I understand some of why this our interests have not been as rapt & focused as they might have been. [1] https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2018/01/25/vietnam-the-first-television-war/ https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2018/01/25/vietnam-the-f... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/30/fact-check-us-covid-19-deaths-surpass-combat-fatalities-many-wars/5535450002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/30/fac...

ballenf 6y ago

> humans have a hard time comprehending large numbers ... the difference between no one dying and one person dying is quite large, but the difference between the 100th and 101st death is far less impactful. I think this data illustrates the exact opposite of what the researchers claim: people are actually pretty good at intuiting danger. A new danger that's never been seen is worthy of attention in a way that the 101st death is not. There's plenty of studies about the ways humans fail at assessing risk, I just think the above is not one of them. Also, news is just one type of item on everyone's data feed that's mixed with fake IG posts, fake news and dishonest ads. That approach makes as much sense as buying your groceries at the sewage treatment plant.

polka_haunts_us 6y ago

I'm just some guy, I wear a mask outside, I socially distance, all my friends and family do the same. Why EXACTLY am I supposed to continue to care about case numbers or death numbers? Am I supposed to be taking action here? Marching in the street? Arguing for hours on end with random strangers online who have already made up their mind in the contrary? Buying a gun and shooting someone for the greater good? At some point, everyone made up their mind, made their plans, voted for their politicians, what is the point of continuing to spin the wheels on this one?

andybak 6y ago
At one stage I was to some degree modulating the amount of caution I exhibited based on the case numbers both nationally and in my area. I was trying to do a rough cost/benefit analysis in my head whenever there was social pressue to do something other than stay the hell out of everyone's way. (Things have got bad enough in the UK since then that I'm now able to do the simpler thing - which is just stay the hell out of everyone's way. Much less taxing on the brain)
subsubzero 6y ago
I agree, I am totally drained of everything covid, its been 24/7 news saturation since March(exceptions being election, BLM protests). Once I get my shots and my family gets theirs I am going to take a much needed and extended break from the news.
- adolph 6y ago
  The lack of major outbreaks post-BLM was something that made me go "Hmmm."
  - DanBC 6y ago
    B117 variant wasn't circulating then, and we've known for a while that while it's not "no risk" outdoor activity is "lower risk". (EDIT: I'm not suggesting that meeting people outside is a good idea, I think lockdowns are needed, especially with B117 around). Here's a respected not-idiot virologist talking about it. https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1348771251758784517?s=20 https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1348771251758784517?s=2...

meekmockmook 6y ago

It's not apathy, it's fatigue. It's been 10 months of terror and horror and people use whatever mental tricks they can to stay sane.

war1025 6y ago
> It's not apathy, it's fatigue. I absolutely agree. > It's been 10 months of terror and horror I blame this squarely on the saturation coverage it has been given by media networks. People need time to hear themselves think or they'll go nuts. Politicians haven't been terribly helpful either. I personally find it hard to get too worked up over it anymore. When my neighbor caught it in July, I was very concerned for him. He was the first person I knew personally to catch it and I was worried for his health. Thankfully him an his wife and kid got through it fine. Then in September another neighbor caught it, I checked in with him daily to make sure he was coming through it okay. In October, my 98 year old grandma caught it. I thought great, this is finally the time. She's going to die from it. And then she got over it just fine. In December, I had an aunt and uncle catch it, both in their late 60s. Both got over it just fine. I learned the other day the reason I hadn't heard much out of one of my best friends is that just before Christmas him and his wife caught it. They also got over it just fine. Heard this weekend that another of my neighbors had it in their house. Also getting over it perfectly fine. I don't say all that to discount the tragedy for those who have died from it. It's a terrible thing and I wish it hadn't happened. But we were sold Ebola by the media, and we got an unusually deadly seasonal flu.
- fistfucker3000 6y ago
  It's the knock on effects we're concerned about. The extra strain on the healthcare system: - endangers the lives of healthcare workers (they're absolutely burnt out at this point) - makes people not go to the doctor for necessary health issues - causes other emergencies to not be serviced
- belltaco 6y ago
  Thats a series of anectdata, which will happen in any data set. >But we were sold Ebola by the media, and we got an unusually deadly seasonal flu. The current death toll is after lockdowns, social distancing, mask wearing, staggered hospitalizations etc. Without those the death toll would be in the millions, how is that just a unusually deadly seasonal flu? A bad flu season is 65k deaths. Current death toll is ~400k.

coding123 6y ago

Can you imagine the thoughts going on in these people on their death beds. Fully aware there is a vaccine and there's nothing that can help them now, if only someone had thought of THEM, helping THEM. I know this doesn't really help anything. It's just super sad. I do feel it daily. Unfortunately too part of the problem is so little actually helpful information is being distributed. What your average Joe hears is 1. death count - useful. 2. Vaccine - useful up to a point - they won't be able to get it for a while. 3. Wear a mask - useful. I think beyond this we need to make sure people know that: 1. Most cases are because of contact with asymptomatic people (AND Before that one HN person replies with that doesn't exist - it absolutely does - antibody tests are also confirming this) https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-spread-asymptomatic-website-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-spread... 2. Vitamin D is NOT your Trump conspiracy cure. It actually works and is backed up by 2 gold standard studies. We don't have more research in this area because no one is funding it. There are many other studies (not randomized/placebo) but ones looking at old people that were already previously taking vitamin D (because of their existing regimen before the pandemic) with massively better outcomes. Someone posted this link that does a nice job summarizing: https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/

gowld 6y ago
Vitamin D is healthful (even outside of COVID), and many many people do not have adequate Vitamin D, and a person with COVID will most likely fare better with adequate Vitamin D than not. That doesn't make Vitamin D a cure or and end to the pandemic.
- coding123 6y ago
  Totally, but the research in that link is suggesting that death rates would drop dramatically. I don't know what they're doing in the hospitals, but the research points to a helpful direction.

pelasaco 6y ago

IMO what the author call "Apathy" we call "focus in trying to survive" and "accepting the new normal". That's exactly the same feeling and reaction that people living in Syria and Iraq have after living years in a War environment.

JIBitator 6y ago

"Covid-19" doesn't exist. That's why there is not much interest.

corby 6y ago

Idiotic article with horrible conclusions. I stopped searching for COVID because I don't have to. Every page I visit, every news site I load, has COVID numbers and news at the top of the page. It's thrown in our face every where. Even the google home page has a COVID link. I'm not apathetic at all, idiot. I'm overloaded with COVID info and numbers and death, I can't escape it.

mikem170 6y ago

Some people look at the science and numbers, and aren't that worried about it. Nothing to do with politics. Death rates have just passed 1 in 1000 people, skewing older and with co-morbidities. Double or triple that and this should burn itself out [0]. For a lot of people that is not enough risk to justify wanting to upend their lives for a year or two. New diseases are part of nature. [0] https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-cor...

cwhiz 6y ago

News organizations bombard us with negative coverage 24/7 for months on end. Endless wall to wall coverage. And now journalists are writing about American apathy. Give me a break. The front page of virtually every major news site is littered with Covid data. On an individual level, what more do you want from me? I wear a mask, haven't visited elderly relatives, haven't traveled much, etc. It feels like journalists and news organization can only survive on constant outrage. And if we aren't outraged enough, they still complain.

bokohut 6y ago

Regardless of the topic is this not how interest in any such time duration based event works on the human level? Given everything in the world is now perceived as "real-time" most can only consume so much before having no more interest for any such topic. Foregoing listing other time duration based current events here, of which globally there are many, could it also be stated that people are showing 'fatigue' for several other major issues as well? A separate topic which comes to my mind and is applicable to what I stated above is that of cybersecurity.

JoeyBananas 6y ago

I believe a lot of the things that got cancelled due to covid-19 didn't really need to be. There is somewhat of a cult centered around shutting everything down without any sense of nuance. Not enough respect has been given to the ability of people to decide for themselves what is in their best interests.

harambae 6y ago
Even worse is when everything isn't shut down, but some places (probably politically connected) are inexplicably left open. If absolutely everything was shut down there'd be a certain (warped) sense of fairness at least. In my town the swimming pool in my condo complex was shut down when COVID-19 began and never reopened. I was the only one who ever used it. They could've just made it maximum capacity 2 or something. Meanwhile, the bar down the street was left open until it became a superspreader event. Anecdotally, I think we've all seen the idiocy and inconsistency at all levels of government which adds to the cynicism and apathy.

rubycon22 6y ago

Yes, I am almost totally apathetic after being forced to sacrifice myself to protect the very same class/group of people who when they were younger, voted for and made the policies that got us into the messes we are in today (climate change, unaffordable homes/land, wars, etc.) for their own benefit. I'm glad Boomer Joe and Mary got to live their last few years together, but also a bit miffed that I and many of my generation have no future to speak of.