16 ms·

Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago

945 points by ignoramous 6y ago

"Aaron is dead. Wanderers in this crazy world, we have lost a mentor, a wise elder. Hackers for right, we are one down, we have lost one of our own. Nurturers, carers, listeners, feeders, parents all, we have lost a child. Let us all weep." - Tim Berners Lee. Thank you for everything, Aaron. -- Discussions at the time: 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5048820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5048820 Blog post in 2016 by Noah, Aaron's brother: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10881413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10881413

lucasgonze 6y ago
I have thought of him several times lately. I keep coming across his work in one form or another - some typically excellent writing on his blog, a history of Markdown explaining his key contributions. He made so many kinds of contributions. He was the Erdos of his generation.
perfmode 6y ago
Thanks for this reminder. Miss you Aaron.
IncludeSecurity 6y ago
Having worked with all of the founders of SecureDrop (Aaron, James, and Kevin) to audit the alpha version it was tough to see Aaron go. Also super sad that we lost James a couple of years later too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dolan_(computer_security_expert) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dolan_(computer_security... Cheers to everybody out there working on Internet freedom software. Thank you all for everything you do, next time you're at FOSDEM or browsing around some issues on github for your fav secure comms projects, let them know they are appreciated and they aren't doing this difficult work in a vacuum. My .02 -Erik Cabetas-
- ainiriand 6y ago
  Some years ago I prepared a (very short) list of people whom I want my future kids to know about. The first name I put down was Aaron's.
  - tehlike 6y ago
    i would like to hear about that list. I have a one year old daughter, and i want her to know the good people.
    - ainiriand 6y ago
      Currently I have the ones that passed away during my adulthood that made a big impact in me: - Aaron Swartz - Carl Sagan - Stephen Hawking - Paul Allen
      - arnaldorobot 6y ago
        I was born in the same year that Carl Sagan died — in fact, just a few days earlier. Once a year people say "congratulations" to me without knowing that, precisely in that moment, inside, the thought coming to this mind in reaction of their comment is that I wish Carl Sagan were alive, and that I had died instead of him, or never have been born in the first place.
fsociety 6y ago
Wish you were here, RIP
immigrantsheep 6y ago
I think about him from time to time and it still makes me incredibly sad.
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
Driving someone to suicide because they acted against entrenched copyright interests was one of the most DoJ moments ever.
- cies 6y ago
  Hence I reflect on this as murder by the state. It happened before (like Gary Webb), and sadly I'm afraid it will happen again. They (govt) seems more interested in big corp's needs than people's needs. This democracy-thing is a big lie, a facade. RIP Aaron.
  - xadhominemx 6y ago
    He was offered a 6 month sentence in a low security prison. He could have served that sentence before the trial was even set to begin and resumed his life as programmer and activist. He was not murdered, he suffered from severe mentally illness.
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      Well, if they knew so much else about him, maybe they should have been aware of his illness and appropriately (ie Justly) addressed the situation rather than making an example of him.
      - xadhominemx 6y ago
        So your argument is that depressed people should be able to avoid trial altogether? He wasn’t even in custody when he took his own life.
        maerF0x0 6y ago
        no, just that policing needs to be made a good deal less scary. Also, at least as I understand it peripherally, it can be sufficiently punitive just to lay chargers and force the other person to prove their innocence. This includes lost time from legitimate activities (school/work), lost wealth (lawyers, opportunity cost), and the emotional trauma of fighting a near unlimited resource state versus your own very limited resources to prove they're the ones who are acting unjustly.
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
To some degree, this is on us as well - for our failing to hold a reasonable PotUS accountable for bad Gov behavior, in a meaningful consistent way.
newscracker 6y ago
Such a colossal loss! If you haven't watched it, I'd recommend watching "The Internet's Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Swartz". [1] It's a bit difficult to watch it more than once or twice. It'll leave you sad and angry. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet%27s_Own_Boy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet%27s_Own_Boy
- boraoztunc 6y ago
  + his blog: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/
  - mlok 6y ago
    And also on Peertube : https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%20boy&sort=-match&page=1 https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%2...
    - boraoztunc 6y ago
      edited my comment after yours, and removed the YT link. thank you.
- Jimmc414 6y ago
  >> It'll leave you sad and angry Indeed.
cbozeman 6y ago
Although Aaron made enormous contributions to many different technologies, I often think of reddit when I think of Aaron. I often wonder how he would feel, not just about censorship there, but about the direction the entire Internet has taken in regards to censoring of content. I can't - and wouldn't - speak for him, but I would be supremely interested in his thoughts.
- webXL 6y ago
  Aaron seemed very opposed to large corporations and their control of information. The increase of control seems to be timed and in favor with the incoming administration. Government using business to do its bidding is very troubling, and I'm sure Aaron would have been very concerned about that. Remember, this increase of power can be wielded by the next populist leader and there are plenty of dark possibilities outside of the current Overton Window.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    I've often spoken with my more left-leaning friends about the need to try and find middle ground with my more right-leaning friends, and quickly. Donald Trump was an incompetent, by almost any measure you want to use. However, he shifted the Overton Window dramatically. When the Republican version of Barack Obama bursts onto the scene - someone eloquent, competent, and thoroughly able to move effectively in the political sphere, there could be a very real problem for Democrats.
    - Dumblydorr 6y ago
      I'm bullish on Democrats due to demographic shifts, but they'll need to gain more senators from rural states if they want to pass major legislation. GOP has to somehow consolidate Trumpists with Never Trumpers, may be tricky to do. How will independents respond to GOP after Trump is finished? Will they forgive and forget? So, in my view, both parties need to adapt or they will not achieve that much. Imagine if Dems had 49 senators, how little would get done in Biden's term, indeed that may be the case after midterms.
howmayiannoyyou 6y ago
Aaron could have accomplished so much more had he not succumbed to depression. His voice would be most welcome now as tech has entered a bitter political conflict. To anyone suffering from depression at this time: You are needed. Your voice is needed. Aaron's end was a net negative, too early and robbed all of us of a brilliant and brave young soul. Improve on Aaron's accomplishments by following his lead but persisting through tough times.
- superkuh 6y ago
  >succumbed to depression Well, yeah, but he had perfectly valid external reasons to be extremely stressed and sad. He succumbed to the FBI ruining his life because they're mostly corrupt authoritarian assholes with their own agenda that has nothing to do with "justice" or even what the "wronged" in this case wanted.
- depneed 6y ago
  > Your voice is needed. I see that "anyone" to you is "any leftist". The internet has sent a very clear and unmistakable signal this past week that the voices of anyone else are not welcome.
  - breck 6y ago
    If we had all listened to Aaron none of this would have happened. He was for truth and education and equality and freedom. Too many people have been marginalized by the #ImaginaryPropertyRegime, left and right, and this was exactly one of the things Aaron was worried about and fighting against.
stefantalpalaru 6y ago
"On September 12, 2012, federal prosecutors filed a superseding indictment adding nine more felony counts, which increased Swartz's maximum criminal exposure to 50 years of imprisonment and $1 million in fines. During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison, if Swartz would plead guilty to 13 federal crimes." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Arrest_and_prosecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Arrest_and_prosec...
sillysaurusx 6y ago
From personal experience, Prozac can act as a suicide deterrent given the right conditions. It’s not true for everyone, and perhaps not even for most people, but there is so much stigma against it. Please, if you’re feeling anything along those lines, at least try some antidepressants. What have you got to lose? You have your whole life to gain. I miss Aaron. I ended up using some code by him a couple months ago, which made me smile. It’s still the best library for the job, nearly a decade later.
- rozab 6y ago
  Placebo controlled trials show that Prozac increases suicidal thoughts. https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i65 https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i65 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/ https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Antidepressants_and_suicide https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Antidepres... Eli Lilly notoriously buried the evidence of this from their own trials.
  - sillysaurusx 6y ago
    Interesting. I wasn’t aware of this. Perhaps I got lucky, but the effect was immediate and life changing. I’ve never quite experienced anything like it, so I try to at least mention it. Not really sure how to proceed knowing it can make the situation worse for some people though. Perhaps I’ll cite your comment in the future; thanks.
    - rozab 6y ago
      This is the issue with placebo controlled trials: the placebo effect is actually pretty damn useful. I don't mean to invalidate your experiences, and I don't doubt that without a placebo group the positive effect would be significant. It's a sticky situation for sure. Maybe it's unethical to tell people this, knowing it will worsen their clinical outcomes? I think HN can handle it, but I probably wouldn't tell this to somebody irl who is struggling with mental health issues and considering antidepressants.
  - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rglover 6y ago
Miss that guy a lot. When I was first starting out, I made a point to go and read his Raw Nerve series and it had a massive impact on my life: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve. One of those rare, brilliant lights in the world who left way, way, way too soon.
bobuk 6y ago
More than 10 years ago, I've asked Aaron about the best way to tell him "thanks for your job". He said what he has a big wishlist on Amazon, so I've chosen a couple of books and bought them to him. Since then, once a year I have an event in my calendar: "check out what's new on Aaron's wishlist". Don't know why I decide to write it today but this is a link for this wishlist, just for inspiration. I think it will help you to understand more about Aaron and his personality https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/2A6HM9B19FOPW/ https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/2A6HM9B19FOPW/
- OzzyB 6y ago
  Always reading, always learning. To the point when asked what reward can I give you, it's more learning and reading. Beautiful.
- hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
  “I” not “I’ve”
- john4532452 6y ago
  Thanks so much for posting this link. In the documentary "Internet's Own Boy" about Aaron( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85UvH0TRPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85UvH0TRPc ) some one made a insightful comment about Aaron. The insight is this, there are people who are highly technically capable and then there are people who live by high morals and sacrifice themselves for a political cause, but the intersection of the two in a same person is very very rare. And that very true. The only other person who fits in this category is probably Richard Stallman.
  - unwantedchild 6y ago
    RMS does not do anything that interacts with politics and I don't think he's high morals, though I use Emacs.
  - arnaldorobot 6y ago
    I find your comment very insightful, and quite moving. I had my own problems with mental health and one of the reasons is hopelessness; we lost ourselves — not just as individuals, but as species. Your mention about this particular characteristic of humans is very much aligned with our current understanding of neuroscience, namely, neurodiversity and the human super power called neuroplasticity, although, like western psychology, our neuroscience derives primarily of the current social norms — this explains the confusion that our psychology has about different ways of being, and levels of consciousness. Hence, scientists are categorizing contemplative, introspective and highly technical individuals as someone with disabilities (social disabilities). Which is ridiculous. These highly introspective individuals, if they were born in India and trained using buddhist meditation techniques (making use of neuroplasticity), they'd be called the next reincarnation of The Buda, by simply being very keen to see and understand reality using logical reasoning. So, concluding my train of thought, this insight about the intersection of technical beings with highly political, motivated by high morals... it is, indeed, very rare and fascinating.
mlok 6y ago
The Internet Own Boy on Peertube : https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%20boy&sort=-match&page=1 https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%2...
kgwxd 6y ago
Had never seen that quote from TBL. It's nice, but it falls real flat coming from the man that used his fame to push for DRM in browsers.
- neilv 6y ago
  The DRM thing is complicated. Before you condemn a person who wrote something kind and thoughtful, if it helps you to reconsider: Tim Berners-Lee's recent work seems to be driven by ideas with which Aaron Swartz (based on his own work) might agree. (And there's the whole thing of him earlier choosing to sit out the Web gold rush billions, and instead focus on stewardship of this tech platform for the world to communicate, from a university position.)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
reddotX 6y ago
feels like yesterday! :'(
throwawaygulf 6y ago
"Thanks Obama!" This was unfortunately one of the many casualties in the war the Obama DoJ raged on the country. It's unconscionable.
- stuckindider 6y ago
  Whether it is by drone strike your using you to make an example, the nobel peace prize winner will murder you somehow.
deenadayalan 6y ago
He didn't suicided. He was murdered by the overzealous prosecutor with her own personal agenda. RIP Aaron. You will be missed forever and it is a loss for humanity.
dilap 6y ago
Among all the many other things he did, he had a fantastic analysis of the end of Infinite Jest: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend Such a sad loss.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
iKevinShah 6y ago
Indeed lost a child. The thing which shocked me equally was Reddit removing him from the official "about us"[1] as a co founder. As if he never existed in Reddit's history. 1: https://www.redditinc.com/#section-4 https://www.redditinc.com/#section-4
- khazhoux 6y ago
  At some risk of stepping into a controversy I have nothing to do with... Aaron was not an original co-founder, and when his company merged into Reddit (with a "co-founder" title as per agreement) every indication is that that arrangement didn't work out for anyone. So I don't blame Reddit for not including Aaron in the company history, as it wasn't his idea, he didn't start it nor grow it, and his presence apparently never "clicked" with the others.
worker767424 6y ago
This hit me harder when it happened than now, but I was also in a weird relationship place back then, so some of those feelings got combined. I didn't know it then, but didn't have as big of a role in founding reddit as people usually think, and his activism was so obviously illegal.
rex_lupi 6y ago
> "We need to take information, wherever it is stored, make our copies and share them with the world. We need to take stuff that's out of copyright and add it to the archive. We need to buy secret databases and put them on the Web. We need to download scientific journals and upload them to file sharing networks. We need to fight for Guerilla Open Access." - The Guerrila Open Access Manifesto by Aaron Swartz: https://openbehavioralscience.org/manifesto https://openbehavioralscience.org/manifesto
at_a_remove 6y ago
I was thinking about this the other day. MIT is dead to me. Carmen Ortiz and Stephen Heymann should be ashamed for the rest of their lives.
- neilv 6y ago
  MIT is a big and complicated place, and you'd be throwing out some good, including people who are probably closer to Swartz in sentiment than our average dotcommer.
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    That sounds nice and all, but they have yet to issue a real mea culpa, although I think there was a "mistakes were made" noise later on. At some point, organizations have to accept accountability if they also want praise for their accomplishments. One without the other is a recipe for disaster.
- pseingatl 6y ago
  Neither suffered any consequences.
ancharm 6y ago
He was an important mind in our community. RIP.
pdevr 6y ago
Reddit's Lisp to Python port used web.py written by Aaron: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit web.py source code - a framework in a single file: https://web.archive.org/web/20060106081029/http://webpy.org:80/web.py https://web.archive.org/web/20060106081029/http://webpy.org:... RIP Aaron.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
breck 6y ago
Snippets of one of my conversations with aaronsw way back when talking about the reason I wanted to help with Open Library: me: If it wasn't for my free city library growing up I would have never gotten where I am today. aaronsw: Precisely. I got into it for the same reason you did. He was a genuinely good truth seeker. I wish I had been smarter and better able to help him more when he needed it. Please support people like him and Alexandra Elbakyan and others who are persecuted for doing the right thing for the right reasons.
trhway 6y ago
today people celebrate Aaron, at least when it comes to lip service. Back then though that "holier than thou" comment was at the top of HN response to Aaron asking for help https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 The HN as well as wider community's change toward Aaron was noted by others as well: https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-asking-for-help-119-days-ago/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-asking-for-he...
nojokes1 6y ago
Another (absolutely horrible) reminder that mental health is complex and almost invisible, "justice" seems to mean "money to lobby" more and more, and that the parasitical industry of academic publishing aims to gatekeep knowledge (that we paid for!) from those who are unable/unwilling to pay them again. So read, learn, do, and don't forget the failings of the mental health system, justice system, and academic publishing industry. And as a final question: How can we do better in each of these areas? What can be made to help out?
stevev 6y ago
A person with so much to live for and so much to accomplish; I don't believe he took his own life.
poxwole 6y ago
Died? No. Murdered. Murdered by MIT and JSTOR
- tzs 6y ago
  Can you point out what you think JSTOR did wrong? Here's what it looked like from their end: https://docs.jstor.org/summary.html https://docs.jstor.org/summary.html
fossuser 6y ago
I commented this recently on a similar post a few months ago, but it's relevant here (lightly edited for accuracy). Even now you see comments in this thread pretending it was succumbing to depression rather than admit our responsibility and the immense pressure that was placed on him - supremely irritating. ### I remember seeing later that his legal defense fund was posted here for help because the cost of the defense for a federal crime (even though he’d likely win) was 1.5M, and the first comment at the time was someone being nasty to him. (post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 , comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609) I remember the emails from MIT that showed the IT department going after him, and then when caught MIT choosing to do nothing rather than help. Even JSTOR backed down rather than move forward. It still makes me angry and MIT’s reputation was seriously harmed in my eyes because of it. Journals blocking access to publicly funded research by extorting desperate academics for prestige is what’s wrong. It’s a broken system due to bad incentives that’s worse for everyone except the journals that enrich themselves on the back of publicly funded research, by locking it away and charging enormous rent. The punishment was disproportionate to a crime that, while possibly illegal, was on the morally right side of a broken incentive structure. He didn’t even get the chance to put the articles up, he downloaded them from a network he had rightful access to. His main crime was leaving a laptop running in an open closet, and downloading more than they wanted. Luckily Sci-Hub continued his work. The legal thing and the right thing are often not the same: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html Maybe the worst part was after his suicide reading comments here about how you can only blame the person who committed suicide since no one else is responsible for the ultimate act. If you choose not to see a causal link between the pressure of this prosecution and his death, I think that says more about your own motivated reasoning than it does about reality. This was a failure of our community. ### On a meta note, one thing that bothered me about 'The Internet's Own Boy' were his interviews on Russia Today. He didn't understand the extent to which he was being used by foreign adversaries to push a narrative favorable to them. That doesn't mean his arguments are wrong, but they're in a quite misleading context. If you go on RT you should do it like Yascha Mounk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucX1IO78lM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucX1IO78lM In hindsight, wikileaks was more an arm of Russian propaganda than Aaron understood.
davidjnelson 6y ago
Really sad. Rest In Peace Aaron.
ljlolel 6y ago
Aaron inspired me so much with his clear ethos in his heart. I could feel his pain in his blog writing so clearly, almost as if he could feel the pain of the whole world and it crushed him.
elunico35 6y ago
A true patriot.
jason_slack 6y ago
Aaron's writing were often thought provoking for me. I often feel I should do more advocacy for the most important causes in this world.
SquareWheel 6y ago
I liked Swartz a lot. He was idealistic and brilliant. His death was as sad as it was unnecessary. After his death though, I always found it inappropriate when obituaries and memorials called him a reddit cofounder. He joined reddit as part of a merger and didn't stay on long before being let go. The original founders didn't consider him a cofounder, and until his death did not have the nicest things to say about him. Personally I think there's better things to remember him by than that rather negative chapter. He created a lot of good outside reddit. Personally I still use RSS to this day, and am occasionally reminded by that of his story.
- maga_maga 6y ago
  Reddit used web.py written by Arron Swartz as framework ever before.
selfishgene 6y ago
This article on WBUR's website hits the nail on the head: The crux of it is that MIT refused to disavow any kind of trespassing charge. (https://www.wbur.org/news/2013/01/15/swartz-attorney-ortiz https://www.wbur.org/news/2013/01/15/swartz-attorney-ortiz) For his deliberate mishandling of the Aaron Swartz case, as well as his cover-up of ballistic missile defense research misconduct at MIT Lincoln Laboratory, and his personally signed thank-you note to an alleged member of organized crime like Jeffrey Epstein which was intended as a form of reputation laundering in exchange for millions of dollars in gifts that MIT received from not just Epstein directly but also from several of his billionaire friends who allegedly owed him a "favor" (some of whom now also stand accused of abusing underage girls on properties which were allegedly outfitted with surveillance cameras for blackmail purposes), perhaps it's time to revisit once again the call for Rafael Reif's resignation from his position as president of MIT: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2020/01/12/after-epstein-affair-president-rafael-reif-should-not-running-mit/C3weZQW2qtw6qbEgFkNFJO/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2020/01/12/after-epstei...
selfishgene 6y ago
Nice to see Aaron Swartz' legacy live on in the recent recommendation of a former Department of Homeland Security director: https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/07/31/universities-should-commit-opening-their-research-everyone-opinion https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/07/31/universities...
alienlid 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25740259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25740259 https://twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670882037760 https://twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/13487046708820377... -- Aaron Swartz @aaronsw died by suicide eight years ago. He represents a kind of left-libertarian current that's lost among present technologists —our generation centers the debate on regulating the internet or, most radically, democratizing platforms. After @aaronsw attempted to communize academic intellectual property, the state destroyed Aaron, while Bush administration officials, Wall Street, and British Petroleum executives walked with impunity. And therefore, some have pointed out that, despite both MIT and JSTOR not wishing to press charges, the state slamming @aaronsw with 35 years in jail and $1M in fines was a prosecutorial overreach and a grotesque miscarriage of justice. No,@aaronsw committed a transgression intolerable in capitalist society. The state brutalized him not on the basis of legal injustice but because what he did struck at the heart of our society and property relations. What he did was like the digital version of burning down Target In a framework that is animated by capital, the state did the right thing: you can't just let people like @aaronsw vandalize and loot intellectual property. You have to go after him. If you don't, then there's nothing worth prosecuting.
the_resistence 6y ago
RIP, you were a genius and pioneer
alienlid 6y ago
Tweet thread on his death that was illuminating for me https://mobile.twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670882037760 https://mobile.twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670...

945 points by ignoramous 6y ago

lucasgonze 6y ago

I have thought of him several times lately. I keep coming across his work in one form or another - some typically excellent writing on his blog, a history of Markdown explaining his key contributions. He made so many kinds of contributions. He was the Erdos of his generation.

perfmode 6y ago

Thanks for this reminder. Miss you Aaron.

IncludeSecurity 6y ago

Having worked with all of the founders of SecureDrop (Aaron, James, and Kevin) to audit the alpha version it was tough to see Aaron go. Also super sad that we lost James a couple of years later too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dolan_(computer_security_expert) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dolan_(computer_security... Cheers to everybody out there working on Internet freedom software. Thank you all for everything you do, next time you're at FOSDEM or browsing around some issues on github for your fav secure comms projects, let them know they are appreciated and they aren't doing this difficult work in a vacuum. My .02 -Erik Cabetas-

ainiriand 6y ago
Some years ago I prepared a (very short) list of people whom I want my future kids to know about. The first name I put down was Aaron's.
- tehlike 6y ago
  i would like to hear about that list. I have a one year old daughter, and i want her to know the good people.
  - ainiriand 6y ago
    Currently I have the ones that passed away during my adulthood that made a big impact in me: - Aaron Swartz - Carl Sagan - Stephen Hawking - Paul Allen
    - arnaldorobot 6y ago
      I was born in the same year that Carl Sagan died — in fact, just a few days earlier. Once a year people say "congratulations" to me without knowing that, precisely in that moment, inside, the thought coming to this mind in reaction of their comment is that I wish Carl Sagan were alive, and that I had died instead of him, or never have been born in the first place.

fsociety 6y ago

Wish you were here, RIP

immigrantsheep 6y ago

I think about him from time to time and it still makes me incredibly sad.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

Driving someone to suicide because they acted against entrenched copyright interests was one of the most DoJ moments ever.

cies 6y ago
Hence I reflect on this as murder by the state. It happened before (like Gary Webb), and sadly I'm afraid it will happen again. They (govt) seems more interested in big corp's needs than people's needs. This democracy-thing is a big lie, a facade. RIP Aaron.
- xadhominemx 6y ago
  He was offered a 6 month sentence in a low security prison. He could have served that sentence before the trial was even set to begin and resumed his life as programmer and activist. He was not murdered, he suffered from severe mentally illness.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    Well, if they knew so much else about him, maybe they should have been aware of his illness and appropriately (ie Justly) addressed the situation rather than making an example of him.
    - xadhominemx 6y ago
      So your argument is that depressed people should be able to avoid trial altogether? He wasn’t even in custody when he took his own life.
      - maerF0x0 6y ago
        no, just that policing needs to be made a good deal less scary. Also, at least as I understand it peripherally, it can be sufficiently punitive just to lay chargers and force the other person to prove their innocence. This includes lost time from legitimate activities (school/work), lost wealth (lawyers, opportunity cost), and the emotional trauma of fighting a near unlimited resource state versus your own very limited resources to prove they're the ones who are acting unjustly.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

To some degree, this is on us as well - for our failing to hold a reasonable PotUS accountable for bad Gov behavior, in a meaningful consistent way.

newscracker 6y ago

Such a colossal loss! If you haven't watched it, I'd recommend watching "The Internet's Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Swartz". [1] It's a bit difficult to watch it more than once or twice. It'll leave you sad and angry. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet%27s_Own_Boy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet%27s_Own_Boy

boraoztunc 6y ago
+ his blog: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/
- mlok 6y ago
  And also on Peertube : https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%20boy&sort=-match&page=1 https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%2...
  - boraoztunc 6y ago
    edited my comment after yours, and removed the YT link. thank you.
Jimmc414 6y ago
>> It'll leave you sad and angry Indeed.

cbozeman 6y ago

Although Aaron made enormous contributions to many different technologies, I often think of reddit when I think of Aaron. I often wonder how he would feel, not just about censorship there, but about the direction the entire Internet has taken in regards to censoring of content. I can't - and wouldn't - speak for him, but I would be supremely interested in his thoughts.

webXL 6y ago
Aaron seemed very opposed to large corporations and their control of information. The increase of control seems to be timed and in favor with the incoming administration. Government using business to do its bidding is very troubling, and I'm sure Aaron would have been very concerned about that. Remember, this increase of power can be wielded by the next populist leader and there are plenty of dark possibilities outside of the current Overton Window.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I've often spoken with my more left-leaning friends about the need to try and find middle ground with my more right-leaning friends, and quickly. Donald Trump was an incompetent, by almost any measure you want to use. However, he shifted the Overton Window dramatically. When the Republican version of Barack Obama bursts onto the scene - someone eloquent, competent, and thoroughly able to move effectively in the political sphere, there could be a very real problem for Democrats.
  - Dumblydorr 6y ago
    I'm bullish on Democrats due to demographic shifts, but they'll need to gain more senators from rural states if they want to pass major legislation. GOP has to somehow consolidate Trumpists with Never Trumpers, may be tricky to do. How will independents respond to GOP after Trump is finished? Will they forgive and forget? So, in my view, both parties need to adapt or they will not achieve that much. Imagine if Dems had 49 senators, how little would get done in Biden's term, indeed that may be the case after midterms.

howmayiannoyyou 6y ago

Aaron could have accomplished so much more had he not succumbed to depression. His voice would be most welcome now as tech has entered a bitter political conflict. To anyone suffering from depression at this time: You are needed. Your voice is needed. Aaron's end was a net negative, too early and robbed all of us of a brilliant and brave young soul. Improve on Aaron's accomplishments by following his lead but persisting through tough times.

superkuh 6y ago
>succumbed to depression Well, yeah, but he had perfectly valid external reasons to be extremely stressed and sad. He succumbed to the FBI ruining his life because they're mostly corrupt authoritarian assholes with their own agenda that has nothing to do with "justice" or even what the "wronged" in this case wanted.
depneed 6y ago
> Your voice is needed. I see that "anyone" to you is "any leftist". The internet has sent a very clear and unmistakable signal this past week that the voices of anyone else are not welcome.
- breck 6y ago
  If we had all listened to Aaron none of this would have happened. He was for truth and education and equality and freedom. Too many people have been marginalized by the #ImaginaryPropertyRegime, left and right, and this was exactly one of the things Aaron was worried about and fighting against.

stefantalpalaru 6y ago

"On September 12, 2012, federal prosecutors filed a superseding indictment adding nine more felony counts, which increased Swartz's maximum criminal exposure to 50 years of imprisonment and $1 million in fines. During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison, if Swartz would plead guilty to 13 federal crimes." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Arrest_and_prosecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Arrest_and_prosec...

sillysaurusx 6y ago

From personal experience, Prozac can act as a suicide deterrent given the right conditions. It’s not true for everyone, and perhaps not even for most people, but there is so much stigma against it. Please, if you’re feeling anything along those lines, at least try some antidepressants. What have you got to lose? You have your whole life to gain. I miss Aaron. I ended up using some code by him a couple months ago, which made me smile. It’s still the best library for the job, nearly a decade later.

rozab 6y ago
Placebo controlled trials show that Prozac increases suicidal thoughts. https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i65 https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i65 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/ https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Antidepressants_and_suicide https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Antidepres... Eli Lilly notoriously buried the evidence of this from their own trials.
- sillysaurusx 6y ago
  Interesting. I wasn’t aware of this. Perhaps I got lucky, but the effect was immediate and life changing. I’ve never quite experienced anything like it, so I try to at least mention it. Not really sure how to proceed knowing it can make the situation worse for some people though. Perhaps I’ll cite your comment in the future; thanks.
  - rozab 6y ago
    This is the issue with placebo controlled trials: the placebo effect is actually pretty damn useful. I don't mean to invalidate your experiences, and I don't doubt that without a placebo group the positive effect would be significant. It's a sticky situation for sure. Maybe it's unethical to tell people this, knowing it will worsen their clinical outcomes? I think HN can handle it, but I probably wouldn't tell this to somebody irl who is struggling with mental health issues and considering antidepressants.
- 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rglover 6y ago

Miss that guy a lot. When I was first starting out, I made a point to go and read his Raw Nerve series and it had a massive impact on my life: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve. One of those rare, brilliant lights in the world who left way, way, way too soon.

bobuk 6y ago

More than 10 years ago, I've asked Aaron about the best way to tell him "thanks for your job". He said what he has a big wishlist on Amazon, so I've chosen a couple of books and bought them to him. Since then, once a year I have an event in my calendar: "check out what's new on Aaron's wishlist". Don't know why I decide to write it today but this is a link for this wishlist, just for inspiration. I think it will help you to understand more about Aaron and his personality https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/2A6HM9B19FOPW/ https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/2A6HM9B19FOPW/

OzzyB 6y ago
Always reading, always learning. To the point when asked what reward can I give you, it's more learning and reading. Beautiful.
hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
“I” not “I’ve”
john4532452 6y ago
Thanks so much for posting this link. In the documentary "Internet's Own Boy" about Aaron( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85UvH0TRPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85UvH0TRPc ) some one made a insightful comment about Aaron. The insight is this, there are people who are highly technically capable and then there are people who live by high morals and sacrifice themselves for a political cause, but the intersection of the two in a same person is very very rare. And that very true. The only other person who fits in this category is probably Richard Stallman.
- unwantedchild 6y ago
  RMS does not do anything that interacts with politics and I don't think he's high morals, though I use Emacs.
- arnaldorobot 6y ago
  I find your comment very insightful, and quite moving. I had my own problems with mental health and one of the reasons is hopelessness; we lost ourselves — not just as individuals, but as species. Your mention about this particular characteristic of humans is very much aligned with our current understanding of neuroscience, namely, neurodiversity and the human super power called neuroplasticity, although, like western psychology, our neuroscience derives primarily of the current social norms — this explains the confusion that our psychology has about different ways of being, and levels of consciousness. Hence, scientists are categorizing contemplative, introspective and highly technical individuals as someone with disabilities (social disabilities). Which is ridiculous. These highly introspective individuals, if they were born in India and trained using buddhist meditation techniques (making use of neuroplasticity), they'd be called the next reincarnation of The Buda, by simply being very keen to see and understand reality using logical reasoning. So, concluding my train of thought, this insight about the intersection of technical beings with highly political, motivated by high morals... it is, indeed, very rare and fascinating.

mlok 6y ago

The Internet Own Boy on Peertube : https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%20boy&sort=-match&page=1 https://sepiasearch.org/search?search=the%20internet%20own%2...

kgwxd 6y ago

Had never seen that quote from TBL. It's nice, but it falls real flat coming from the man that used his fame to push for DRM in browsers.

neilv 6y ago
The DRM thing is complicated. Before you condemn a person who wrote something kind and thoughtful, if it helps you to reconsider: Tim Berners-Lee's recent work seems to be driven by ideas with which Aaron Swartz (based on his own work) might agree. (And there's the whole thing of him earlier choosing to sit out the Web gold rush billions, and instead focus on stewardship of this tech platform for the world to communicate, from a university position.)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

reddotX 6y ago

feels like yesterday! :'(

throwawaygulf 6y ago

"Thanks Obama!" This was unfortunately one of the many casualties in the war the Obama DoJ raged on the country. It's unconscionable.

stuckindider 6y ago
Whether it is by drone strike your using you to make an example, the nobel peace prize winner will murder you somehow.

deenadayalan 6y ago

He didn't suicided. He was murdered by the overzealous prosecutor with her own personal agenda. RIP Aaron. You will be missed forever and it is a loss for humanity.

dilap 6y ago

Among all the many other things he did, he had a fantastic analysis of the end of Infinite Jest: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend Such a sad loss.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

iKevinShah 6y ago

Indeed lost a child. The thing which shocked me equally was Reddit removing him from the official "about us"[1] as a co founder. As if he never existed in Reddit's history. 1: https://www.redditinc.com/#section-4 https://www.redditinc.com/#section-4

khazhoux 6y ago
At some risk of stepping into a controversy I have nothing to do with... Aaron was not an original co-founder, and when his company merged into Reddit (with a "co-founder" title as per agreement) every indication is that that arrangement didn't work out for anyone. So I don't blame Reddit for not including Aaron in the company history, as it wasn't his idea, he didn't start it nor grow it, and his presence apparently never "clicked" with the others.

worker767424 6y ago

This hit me harder when it happened than now, but I was also in a weird relationship place back then, so some of those feelings got combined. I didn't know it then, but didn't have as big of a role in founding reddit as people usually think, and his activism was so obviously illegal.

rex_lupi 6y ago

> "We need to take information, wherever it is stored, make our copies and share them with the world. We need to take stuff that's out of copyright and add it to the archive. We need to buy secret databases and put them on the Web. We need to download scientific journals and upload them to file sharing networks. We need to fight for Guerilla Open Access." - The Guerrila Open Access Manifesto by Aaron Swartz: https://openbehavioralscience.org/manifesto https://openbehavioralscience.org/manifesto

at_a_remove 6y ago

I was thinking about this the other day. MIT is dead to me. Carmen Ortiz and Stephen Heymann should be ashamed for the rest of their lives.

neilv 6y ago
MIT is a big and complicated place, and you'd be throwing out some good, including people who are probably closer to Swartz in sentiment than our average dotcommer.
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  That sounds nice and all, but they have yet to issue a real mea culpa, although I think there was a "mistakes were made" noise later on. At some point, organizations have to accept accountability if they also want praise for their accomplishments. One without the other is a recipe for disaster.
pseingatl 6y ago
Neither suffered any consequences.

ancharm 6y ago

He was an important mind in our community. RIP.

pdevr 6y ago

Reddit's Lisp to Python port used web.py written by Aaron: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit web.py source code - a framework in a single file: https://web.archive.org/web/20060106081029/http://webpy.org:80/web.py https://web.archive.org/web/20060106081029/http://webpy.org:... RIP Aaron.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

breck 6y ago

Snippets of one of my conversations with aaronsw way back when talking about the reason I wanted to help with Open Library: me: If it wasn't for my free city library growing up I would have never gotten where I am today. aaronsw: Precisely. I got into it for the same reason you did. He was a genuinely good truth seeker. I wish I had been smarter and better able to help him more when he needed it. Please support people like him and Alexandra Elbakyan and others who are persecuted for doing the right thing for the right reasons.

trhway 6y ago

today people celebrate Aaron, at least when it comes to lip service. Back then though that "holier than thou" comment was at the top of HN response to Aaron asking for help https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 The HN as well as wider community's change toward Aaron was noted by others as well: https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-asking-for-help-119-days-ago/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-asking-for-he...

nojokes1 6y ago

Another (absolutely horrible) reminder that mental health is complex and almost invisible, "justice" seems to mean "money to lobby" more and more, and that the parasitical industry of academic publishing aims to gatekeep knowledge (that we paid for!) from those who are unable/unwilling to pay them again. So read, learn, do, and don't forget the failings of the mental health system, justice system, and academic publishing industry. And as a final question: How can we do better in each of these areas? What can be made to help out?

stevev 6y ago

A person with so much to live for and so much to accomplish; I don't believe he took his own life.

poxwole 6y ago

Died? No. Murdered. Murdered by MIT and JSTOR

tzs 6y ago
Can you point out what you think JSTOR did wrong? Here's what it looked like from their end: https://docs.jstor.org/summary.html https://docs.jstor.org/summary.html

fossuser 6y ago

I commented this recently on a similar post a few months ago, but it's relevant here (lightly edited for accuracy). Even now you see comments in this thread pretending it was succumbing to depression rather than admit our responsibility and the immense pressure that was placed on him - supremely irritating. ### I remember seeing later that his legal defense fund was posted here for help because the cost of the defense for a federal crime (even though he’d likely win) was 1.5M, and the first comment at the time was someone being nasty to him. (post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 , comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529609) I remember the emails from MIT that showed the IT department going after him, and then when caught MIT choosing to do nothing rather than help. Even JSTOR backed down rather than move forward. It still makes me angry and MIT’s reputation was seriously harmed in my eyes because of it. Journals blocking access to publicly funded research by extorting desperate academics for prestige is what’s wrong. It’s a broken system due to bad incentives that’s worse for everyone except the journals that enrich themselves on the back of publicly funded research, by locking it away and charging enormous rent. The punishment was disproportionate to a crime that, while possibly illegal, was on the morally right side of a broken incentive structure. He didn’t even get the chance to put the articles up, he downloaded them from a network he had rightful access to. His main crime was leaving a laptop running in an open closet, and downloading more than they wanted. Luckily Sci-Hub continued his work. The legal thing and the right thing are often not the same: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html Maybe the worst part was after his suicide reading comments here about how you can only blame the person who committed suicide since no one else is responsible for the ultimate act. If you choose not to see a causal link between the pressure of this prosecution and his death, I think that says more about your own motivated reasoning than it does about reality. This was a failure of our community. ### On a meta note, one thing that bothered me about 'The Internet's Own Boy' were his interviews on Russia Today. He didn't understand the extent to which he was being used by foreign adversaries to push a narrative favorable to them. That doesn't mean his arguments are wrong, but they're in a quite misleading context. If you go on RT you should do it like Yascha Mounk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucX1IO78lM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cucX1IO78lM In hindsight, wikileaks was more an arm of Russian propaganda than Aaron understood.

davidjnelson 6y ago

Really sad. Rest In Peace Aaron.

ljlolel 6y ago

Aaron inspired me so much with his clear ethos in his heart. I could feel his pain in his blog writing so clearly, almost as if he could feel the pain of the whole world and it crushed him.

elunico35 6y ago

A true patriot.

jason_slack 6y ago

Aaron's writing were often thought provoking for me. I often feel I should do more advocacy for the most important causes in this world.

SquareWheel 6y ago

I liked Swartz a lot. He was idealistic and brilliant. His death was as sad as it was unnecessary. After his death though, I always found it inappropriate when obituaries and memorials called him a reddit cofounder. He joined reddit as part of a merger and didn't stay on long before being let go. The original founders didn't consider him a cofounder, and until his death did not have the nicest things to say about him. Personally I think there's better things to remember him by than that rather negative chapter. He created a lot of good outside reddit. Personally I still use RSS to this day, and am occasionally reminded by that of his story.

maga_maga 6y ago
Reddit used web.py written by Arron Swartz as framework ever before.

selfishgene 6y ago

This article on WBUR's website hits the nail on the head: The crux of it is that MIT refused to disavow any kind of trespassing charge. (https://www.wbur.org/news/2013/01/15/swartz-attorney-ortiz https://www.wbur.org/news/2013/01/15/swartz-attorney-ortiz) For his deliberate mishandling of the Aaron Swartz case, as well as his cover-up of ballistic missile defense research misconduct at MIT Lincoln Laboratory, and his personally signed thank-you note to an alleged member of organized crime like Jeffrey Epstein which was intended as a form of reputation laundering in exchange for millions of dollars in gifts that MIT received from not just Epstein directly but also from several of his billionaire friends who allegedly owed him a "favor" (some of whom now also stand accused of abusing underage girls on properties which were allegedly outfitted with surveillance cameras for blackmail purposes), perhaps it's time to revisit once again the call for Rafael Reif's resignation from his position as president of MIT: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2020/01/12/after-epstein-affair-president-rafael-reif-should-not-running-mit/C3weZQW2qtw6qbEgFkNFJO/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2020/01/12/after-epstei...

selfishgene 6y ago

Nice to see Aaron Swartz' legacy live on in the recent recommendation of a former Department of Homeland Security director: https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/07/31/universities-should-commit-opening-their-research-everyone-opinion https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/07/31/universities...

alienlid 6y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25740259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25740259 https://twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670882037760 https://twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/13487046708820377... -- Aaron Swartz @aaronsw died by suicide eight years ago. He represents a kind of left-libertarian current that's lost among present technologists —our generation centers the debate on regulating the internet or, most radically, democratizing platforms. After @aaronsw attempted to communize academic intellectual property, the state destroyed Aaron, while Bush administration officials, Wall Street, and British Petroleum executives walked with impunity. And therefore, some have pointed out that, despite both MIT and JSTOR not wishing to press charges, the state slamming @aaronsw with 35 years in jail and $1M in fines was a prosecutorial overreach and a grotesque miscarriage of justice. No,@aaronsw committed a transgression intolerable in capitalist society. The state brutalized him not on the basis of legal injustice but because what he did struck at the heart of our society and property relations. What he did was like the digital version of burning down Target In a framework that is animated by capital, the state did the right thing: you can't just let people like @aaronsw vandalize and loot intellectual property. You have to go after him. If you don't, then there's nothing worth prosecuting.

the_resistence 6y ago

RIP, you were a genius and pioneer

alienlid 6y ago

Tweet thread on his death that was illuminating for me https://mobile.twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670882037760 https://mobile.twitter.com/hides_minimally/status/1348704670...