22 ms·

Where are the comments about how awful it is for people's private messages to be leaked? Or is this okay because the media told me these guys are the bad guys.

TameAntelope 6y ago
I'm willing to own my belief these people are bad guys, no need to protect me by saying the media told me so.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  If you think every person on Parler is a bad person, you're mentally deranged, period.
boredumb 6y ago
Just call everyone a terrorist and absolve your soul of any uneasiness you have with this. Surely this hyperbole hasn't been used in recent history to push authoritarian and unethical measures by state and private actors paving a golden road to hell.
- deegles 6y ago
  Umm I'm not sure which group you're referring to!
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    Are they distinguishable by their terroristic activities alone?
- _red 6y ago
  Its also complete accident that there is now a 20000 page "Patriot Act 2.0" being pushed as a solution.
  - boredumb 6y ago
    The US Political class is just that good!
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    Links or is this FUD.
    - sonotmyname 6y ago
      Perhaps GlobalProtect was referring to HR 4192? https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-statement-opposing-hr-4192-confronting-threat-domestic-terrorism-act https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-statement-opposing-hr-4192-...
      - sonotmyname 6y ago
        darned auto-expansion. meant GP
- dmead 6y ago
  A bunch of assholes on here are trying to destabilize the country. what are you even on about?
- refurb 6y ago
  What I love about this comment is how politically ambiguous it is. You cant tell which “side” it’s arguing for which is exactly the point - the same argument can be used by both sides. That’s what makes it so dangerous.
  - simonh 6y ago
    It's trying to equate calling out actual terrorist acts carried by self-identified insurrectionists, with calling "Everyone" a terrorist. No, we're not calling everyone a terrorist. Not even everyone on Parler, though clearly some were, and the service rules were set up to facilitate them planning their atrocities. We're calling these terrorists what they are. Pipe bombs and a dead policeman for goodness sake. Where do we draw the line?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- racl101 6y ago
  Yeah, this precedent is very troubling to say the least. If or when things swing the other way, this will not go well for everybody.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  Well what is your suggested response? I think the lack of calling out terrorism and fascism in this country have already resulted four years of "pushing authoritarian and unethical measures" by the US executive.
  - ErikVandeWater 6y ago
    '"pushing authoritarian and unethical measures" by the US executive' has gone on _much_ longer than 4 years.
  - sb057 6y ago
    >Well what is your suggested response? If someone is committing crimes, then arrest and prosecute them.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    The response should be to pass $2k relief checks.
- libraryatnight 6y ago
  ...these people are the authoritarians. They want to usher in some sort of bizarre "law and order" where they define what those things mean. They were literally beating police offers and saying "we're on your side" at the same time.
- tw04 6y ago
  The amount of victimization through projection currently taking place is kind of shocking. I don't know of a single person that has been called a Terrorist for anything other than calling for violence against others. Why self-proclaimed "peaceful" conservatives continue to lump themselves in with white-supremacists and domestic terrorists is beyond me. You can pretend that people are being persecuted for being a Republican but 30 seconds of fact checking will disprove that. In fact the only ones calling for violence against Republicans are those very same white supremacists and domestic terrorists because it seems that anyone that doesn't align with Donald Trump is somehow not a conservative. Mike Pence isn't a Republican? Really? I can't think of a politician much further right, and somehow he's no longer acceptable. If your political belief system is "whatever Trump thinks this week" then maybe it's time to re-evaluate what you really stand for.
traveler01 6y ago
Yeah this is plain retarded and I see too many people cheering this up. And mostly many of these users are not even Trump supporters and are having their data leaked. Where people have their brains nowadays...?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nullc 6y ago
Don't worry, the "hacked material" rule on twitter will prevent anything derived from this being posted on twitter. Right???
- yalogin 6y ago
  Applying the rules uniformly means Twitter should wait 4 yrs and then ban them. I am sure you will agree to that.
  - nullc 6y ago
    You're referring to 2024 when twitter will ban the NY Times for posting materials derived from the orange clown's taxes and the NY Post for posting materials derived from the President-elect's son's laptop? Ah. Wait. They took one of these actions within an hour of it going up. :P I suppose it'll be no time at all until they take down the account of the person hacking Parler and live tweeting the content being discussed in this article... which they've been doing for that past ... 48 hours.
- judge2020 6y ago
  Since it's WARC and is going to end up on archive.org (archive.org is going to host it, but a different org 'archive team' are the ones who downloaded it), twitter isn't going to stop it from being posted since it's just going to show up as a link to web.archive.org. Arguably this isn't 'hacked data' since it's stuff that was wget'd and no security measure circumvention took place.
  - nullc 6y ago
    > no security measure circumvention took place You don't consider exploiting 2fa fail-open being triggered by deplatforming by their 2fa provider being used to mass password reset accounts and vacuum up their private messages not a security circumvention? What about using a arbitrary content type upload on their video subdomain to implement an XSS attack to allow them to download all videos, including ones sent privately between users?
devwastaken 6y ago
"the media". You're not being honest, you either havent used the platform or are deliberately lying here. Either way a platform that freeley allows the organization of violent mobs has no place, and neither does anybody who supports it.
- guscost 6y ago
  So logically then, Twitter and all its users should be cancelled for freely allowing Antifa to organize there.
  - mountainb 6y ago
    Yes, correct. The users are fine, just change the law to make things like Twitter impractical to run.
  - bavent 6y ago
    Ah yes, Antifa, known for throwing milkshakes, is equivalent to pipe bombs, trucks filled with guns and explosives, and people walking around with zip ties looking for pols to kidnap inside a government building they killed a cop to break into. Right. I forgot.
    - boredumb 6y ago
      Correct, You obviously forgot the last 8 months where multiple people were killed, federal and private buildings were lit on fire, politicians were assaulted and they setup multiple "autonomous" zones. Perhaps I missed the latest phase of word games where the word 'milkshakes' encapsulates this sort of behavior?
    - guscost 6y ago
      25 people died in their riots last year.
    - rightoven9 6y ago
      You're pretty quick to forget the Autonomous zone in Seattle where people died, or the continuous destruction in Portland over the last few months. Either Parler and Twitter are both dangerous or neither of them are.
slothtrop 6y ago
I'm looking at one now.
LaMarseillaise 6y ago
You’re right: Parler’s negligence led to user data being taken. Parler should be punished for this.
coldtea 6y ago
People the "good people" disagree with politically and culturally are equivalent to nazis, and it's ok for them to have anything bad happen to them
- redflame8 6y ago
  Do you not understand that this logic leads to bigotry and genocide as people vie to out virtue signal one another out of fead
- cactus2093 6y ago
  Ermm, people who are trying to violently and undemocratically install an authoritarian government while using slogans like “6 million was not enough” are literally nazis. You’re gonna have to find another hyperbolically bad thing to accuse your opponents of fear mongering about.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >hyperbolically bad thing You mean like that these group was "violently and undemocratically install an authoritarian government"? Did you feel much scared of the possibility of some dictatorship (as opposed to an act of protest in the congress)? Second, even if they did seriously try to do that, heck, even if they succeeded in establishing an "authoritarian government", that wouldn't be enough to qualify them as "literally nazis". We don't call all authoritarian government nazis. Just the ones that actually are nazist. In fact, the most succesful ones we call "business as usual", with the Patriot Act, surveillance, several global wars, torture, etc...
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
      Do you, like, not get the “6 million...” reference? They also had functioning gallows, and a guy with a taser and zip ties running around in the Senate chamber just minutes after it was evacuated, and lots of “kill Mike Pence” shouting. Some people were there to take selfies. Others were there to take hostages.
    - 6y ago
beshrkayali 6y ago
The ramifications of this will absolutely set a record for the future as the inevitable reverse will happen. People are forgetting that if they're ok with this sort of behavior now, it'll be difficult for them to argue-against or prevent the same behavior when their opposites are in control.
- guscost 6y ago
  They are betting everything on the belief that they will win permanently this time, and their opponents will never get control again.
  - valvar 6y ago
    It reminds me of Pascal's wager. How confident can one be that one's chosen political team will definitely win out in the long run? 90%? That seems very high, but even if you're 99% sure, are you willing to act in a way that will surely warrant retribution in the unlikely adverse scenario? Seems like a pretty dumb wager to make.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- boredumb 6y ago
  Under the assumption people are remotely ingenuous I'd agree, but in recent years I think that ship has sailed. The means always justify the ends, and ideological consistency is apparently chalked up to a loser's game.
- scythe 6y ago
  >The ramifications of this will absolutely set a record for the future as the inevitable reverse will happen. Will happen? Try has happened. Partisan hacking has been a thing for a decade. Remember the DNC emails? Remember weev? >People are forgetting that if they're ok with this sort of behavior now What does it matter if I'm okay with it? Nobody consulted me before breaking into Parler. In fact, they didn't take my opinion into account at all. Sure, grey-hats are somewhat motivated by public opinion, but even Mitch McConnell gave a floor speech on Wednesday angry enough to incite a few keyboard taps. >it'll be difficult for them to argue-against or prevent the same behavior Because American politics consistently punishes hypocrisy, right?
Jedd 6y ago
Within 20m of this post being made, this <7d account is complaining about other people not complaining about the leak of private messages, without actually complaining about that specific problem.
caspper69 6y ago
I arrived at that conclusion all on my own. Something a disappointingly large portion of Trump supporters seem to be unable to do. And last I checked, the truth is that conservative media is a much larger slice of "the media" than it would have you believe, I mean, except when it touts its ratings to anyone who will listen.
ashtonkem 6y ago
There are several comments top level saying exactly that. I’m not sure what else you want from HN. Honestly, the speculative and proactive accusations of hypocrisy are getting really tiresome. I wish people would stop.
ulfw 6y ago
"the media told me these guys are the bad guys" and what do you think they are?
UncleMeat 6y ago
Most of the top level comments are mentioning that.
nkrisc 6y ago
I'm not gonna lie: I find it very difficult to be upset by this when the site was a haven for people who want to mass executions for people like me. For me, the world is a little more complex than "privacy at all costs." It's hard to decide where to draw the line.
- LunaSea 6y ago
  I would set the line at "following due process".
- sanedigital 6y ago
  Talk about hyperbole. In no way did even 1% of the population on Parler want mass executions for people like you.
  - muspimerol 6y ago
    There's no hyperbole in the comment. It can still be a safe haven for extremists even if most of the users are not.
    - simonh 6y ago
      An even if they didn't agree with the sentiment, many or even most of those on the platform were perfectly happy to fraternise with those that did.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Should we still have due process in the external world? After all, the United States is a "safe haven" for people who talk about killing pretty much every minority group under the sun. > the world is a little more complex than "privacy at all costs." The line doesn't have to do with the infringement of privacy, it's about whether that infringement is being done by publicly sanctioned power, or the whim of the arbitrary, domineering power of private (tech) actors. Elizabeth Anderson has written quite well on this topic in "Private Government."
      - deleted 6y ago
enkid 6y ago
I don't think it's fair to lump everyone into a pile like that. I agree with the decision of tech companies not to host Parler and disagree with leaking its contents. The comments section on any forum is made of a variety of people with a variety of views. You shouldn't be looking at a web forum for consistency.
eudajmonia 6y ago
The find the whole narrative of dehumanising Trump supporters to be sick. The memory of all the pathological mob like violence that occurred during the BLM movement which occurred worldwide should still be fresh in all of our memories. If only the actors who incited that violence were held to this same standard.
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  Quick question, how many BLM mobs beat two cops to death with flagpoles? How many built gallows and rushed into government buildings with handcuffs looking for politicians to execute? How many battered down the door to the room where the Vice President and Speaker of the House were hiding chanting "Hang Pence, Hang Pelosi"? And how many of them were inspired by prominent politicians telling them "We are never going to concede", "we are going to take our country back", "it's time for a trial by combat", "we are going together to the Capitol", "Mike Pence betrayed us", etc etc etc
  - neartheplain 6y ago
    I've recapped the depths of last summer's BLM/antifa violence in previous threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 Objectively, the summer's riots (as opposed to the more numerous peaceful protests) caused more deaths, injuries, and property damage. At the same time, the assault on the capitol was an unprecedented attack on democracy and the peaceful transition of power, to which there is no direct BLM parallel. For now, I suggest we all stop comparing these things. I don't think many are receptive to either side of the argument. Emotions are still running high, and we're not through the transition of power just yet.
    - hannasanarion 6y ago
      ooOOOOOoooo a video of a molotov cocktail, some people standing around and shouting, and a fake guillotine with a plastic blade, very scary. That's totally the same as invading the center of government decked out in illegal guns and armor while most of the line of succession is there, chanting your intention to murder them while breaking down doors, stealing government laptops, building a gallows to hang the politicians you don't like with, dragging police officers outside to beat them to death, all the while declaring the start of a new civil war, and while sympathetic insiders feed them real-time information about the location of the politicians you intend to kill, etc etc etc.
davewritescode 6y ago
I do feel terrible for those people. Parler needs to be held civilly liable for what they've done. The real crime here is that Parler was collecting sensitive information above and beyond what most social providers were asking for and still made shoddy security decisions.
RIMR 6y ago
No. These guys ARE the bad guys. Not "because the media said so". They are objectively the bad guys. Parler's members are the rejects that couldn't survive on mainstream platforms due to their poor conduct. That userbase just planned and executed an attempt at insurrection against the US government. The market overwhelmingly has agreed that Parler violated ethical standards egregiously enough that severing business ties is appropriate. I fail to see the importance of these people's privacy in the wake of recent events. I also fail to have sympathy for people who trusted this hacked-together Twitter clone with their personal information. Leaking this information sends a clear message: Extremism and violence are intolerable, and every possible means is at our disposal to fight back against it. That includes exposing violent extremists to the light of day.
- cutitout 6y ago
  > I fail to see the importance of these people's privacy in the wake of recent events. I also fail to have sympathy for people who trusted this hacked-together Twitter clone with their personal information. Then I fail to have any sympathy and solidarity with you. You're just another violent extremist in my eyes, and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend by a long shot.
  - TomSwirly 6y ago
    > You're just another violent extremist in my eyes, Can you explain how not caring that a bunch of people got their data leaked makes you a "violent extremist"?
    - cutitout 6y ago
      I responded to someone who didn't even attempt to make the case how all users of Parler are "violent extremists", they just pulled out that broad brush to justify a transgression. That's intellectually so dishonest I see no functional difference between that and what one would criticize extremists for, and I don't see a meaningful difference between "not minding" a breach of someone's rights and committing it, so that's the violent bit. > He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. But if you don't mind their use of "violent extremists" apropos nothing, no, I don't particularly "care to" explain myself to you for using the same phrase in response to them -- I just do it because I can. You could simply remove or ignore my re-using that phrase and my point would stand unchanged. Address the core of an argument, don't just play "gotcha" while ignoring the context and the woods for the trees.
wpietri 6y ago
Where does it say private messages are being leaked?
- wpietri 6y ago
  Just to update, no private messages were leaked: https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832 https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832
intended 6y ago
Sure they are bad guys. This was also a bad thing to do, since, presumably - some of it was intended to be private or hidden. It will be interesting to see what the results of the content are. There have been many arguments implying that parler was "pretty normal". We can now empirically find out. As others have noted, this is also a lesson in design and code priorities.
avs733 6y ago
most of us are trying to reflect on whether this is 'private messages' or 'evidence of crimes' I doubt anyone on HN would take seriously any other service turning over evidence of a crime to authorities because its 'private messages'. We might not like that it is there policy but we damn well would know it is their policy and not use services where it is technically possible to plan crimes?
newacct583 6y ago
> the media told me these guys are the bad guys. They sacked the capitol and cheered it on (yes, almost exclusively as far as the people on Parler are concerned). They are indeed the bad guys.
go13 6y ago
I'm surprised to see how many people can not think for themselves but follow what media is telling them. I hope I don't do that myself but try to understand the matter and follow principles rather than sides. What I'm surprised the most is that with these complex and not obvious questions (at least to me) people without any shadow of a doubt are certain that it is right for big tech to censor Trump, shut down parler and take political sides like it happened. Maybe Trump is bad but at least i want to see his stupidity or his wrongdoing rather than other people to chew the news and feed me like im an infant. To me these questions require philosophical debates and dialogue (even with myself) to understand f it is right for a company to impose their political worldview on their clients - I don't feel it is right. But if others take these positions very easily, to me that is an indication that they got these ideas from somebody else rather than thought them through.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  You are currently witnessing the result of defunding humanities in favor of technical education.
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    I have a feeling most of the professors in the Humanities departments would be not at all sympathetic to Parler or all the deplatforming happening around Donald Trump and his supporters. If anything they'd be broadcasting the Karl Popper "Paradox of Tolerance" as justification for everything that's been happening this week.
    - ceilingcorner 6y ago
      Humanities students do not and should not merely repeat their professors’ opinions. To do so almost entirely misses the point of being educated.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
mr_overalls 6y ago
> media told me I create a Parler account myself out of curiosity's sake. The platform had basically no moderation, and was rife with open calls to violence. It was absolutely serving as a recruitment & coordination site for domestic terrorism.
- astrea 6y ago
  Didn't we learn from 4/8chan that letting people post whatever they want (semi-)anonymously leads to disgusting behavior?
  - abvdasker 6y ago
    I think it's also that unmoderated forums become a magnet for people who want to spew hate, rather than anonymity inherently leading regular people into such behavior (though maybe the former causes some of the latter).
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    Older than that, here’s a take from 2004: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
  - foolfoolz 6y ago
    reddit is the same thing. not all of 4chan is bad. not all of reddit is bad. but there is bad on both. it has nothing to do with the website it’s the format
    - dvlsg 6y ago
      The difference is that reddit at least tries to moderate calls to violence and hate speech. They don't always do a good job of it, though.
      - foolfoolz 6y ago
        4chan is moderated
driverdan 6y ago
Why is it awful? If something you say isn't end-to-end encrypted you should assume it could be made public. I wouldn't be upset if PMs from Twitter or FB were leaked either.
ahoy 6y ago
There are lots of those types of comments. Did you read?
cactus2093 6y ago
Why did you include that “the media told me” part? It dramatically weakens your argument. If you think you’re right and are arguing in good faith, why add this throwaway strawman to imply that everybody who disagrees with you must be brainwashed by the media and not thinking for themselves?
varvar 6y ago
It's amazing isn't it? Principles, ethics.. all talk for a lot of people, situations like these show it. Watch them spin it as a good thing for humanity as a whole. Amazing.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Which side are you talking about in this?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I am reading this comment and I can't help but to chuckle. The reason I am saying is that can be read in several different ways and so does parent's post. We can just barely communicate with one another clearly so our proxy becomes 'who are you talking about exactly'. We need better communication tools -- language seems to be failing us.
salawat 6y ago
Was about to ask the same thing. My, how the story changes when it's on the other foot. This type of thing is exactly why we can't have noce things. Regardless of how you feel about the people in question, the fact is you've got people on the side of throwing even more fuel 9n the fire for stoking divisiveness and chaos. The sheer fraction of HN posters who show no apparent awareness of this is a bit offputting.
sj3k 6y ago
You can pretty easily see for yourself they are THE bad guys. There are calls for violence and white supremacist rhetoric ever way you turn. You really have to try hard to find the non horrible parts of that site.
- kbelder 6y ago
  You're slightly wrong by stressing "THE". They are SOME of the bad guys. Those weren't the only racially charged and violent riots that happened this year.
MattGaiser 6y ago
The 2nd most upvoted comment is about that. The most is about how the Parler developers are inept.
ipsocannibal 6y ago
Remember to blame the media, right. It helps flood the zone with misleading accusations. Racist fascists attacking a democratic institution while calling for blood are objectively bad guys. Full stop. If any of their private messages were used in planning and execution of that crime that is evidence on which they should be charged. That evidence will mostly be made public in the course of a trial. Everything else just delete.
hehehaha 6y ago
We’re you complaining when Snowden leaked? Or the Panama Papers?
electrondood 6y ago
I think most Americans have already judged for themselves. https://www.ipsos.com/en/american-reaction-pro-trump-mob-assaulting-capitol https://www.ipsos.com/en/american-reaction-pro-trump-mob-ass...
arbitrage 6y ago
A lot of this "what about their rights" bullshit is likely a covert misinformation campaign by botters and operatives. Hate speech is not protected. Plotting and committing treason against the United States government is not protected. Say unimaginably hateful shit, see how fast it takes to get punched in the mouth. Simple as that.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  > Hate speech is not protected. Yes it is. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment. The most recent Supreme Court case on the issue was in 2017, when the justices unanimously reaffirmed that there is effectively no "hate speech" exception to the free speech rights protected by the First Amendment. [1] > Say unimaginably hateful shit, see how fast it takes to get punched in the mouth. Simple as that. This is incredibly dangerous and short-sighted. I can tell you've likely never been in a fight, or very, very few. People who think this way need to be very fucking careful with their rhetoric here, because while they think they might be the Billy Badass who'll set the world 'right', there's a lot of other Billy Badasses out there who might just jerk a knot in their ass, either temporarily or permanently. You might want to take a more reasonable approach and figure out why someone feels the way they feel first. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat...
  - MrMan 6y ago
    i am really sad that hate speech is allowed in the US. i think it is shameful and dangerous. I have no comment on you telling that other guy to be very fucking careful
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      > i am really sad that hate speech is allowed in the US. i think it is shameful and dangerous. Fortunately our founders realized how necessary speech is, especially speech we don't like. I'm waiting to see Noam Chomsky get canceled for saying, “Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.” > I have no comment on you telling that other guy to be very fucking careful He should be thankful, because I'm trying to save him from getting seriously injured - perhaps even killed one day. People who have a lot of experience fighting, especially having either seen or participated in fights outside of a controlled environment, will tell you just how incredibly dangerous it is to fight someone for whom you have no idea of their capabilities. You might have just picked a fight with someone with advanced combat training who will hand you your ass... even worse, you might have come upon someone with enough training you to seriously harm you, but not enough training to know how to exercise restraint. You are far better served to try to de-escalate a situation than to actively jump in like your John Wick... because you're not. John Wicks of the world are only fighting when they have no other option.
andrewclunn 6y ago
Account created 12 days ago... Will they make it a full 14 before they get shadow banned? A new user who doesn't understand what "hacker news" is really about, or somebody who knows exactly what it is and made an alt account to post stuff like this while protecting their main one? Ah the joys of modern censorship.
ibrault 6y ago
Everything that was "hacked" is just publicly-available information on Parler that was archived: https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832 https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832

TameAntelope 6y ago

I'm willing to own my belief these people are bad guys, no need to protect me by saying the media told me so.

cbozeman 6y ago
If you think every person on Parler is a bad person, you're mentally deranged, period.

boredumb 6y ago

Just call everyone a terrorist and absolve your soul of any uneasiness you have with this. Surely this hyperbole hasn't been used in recent history to push authoritarian and unethical measures by state and private actors paving a golden road to hell.

deegles 6y ago
Umm I'm not sure which group you're referring to!
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  Are they distinguishable by their terroristic activities alone?
_red 6y ago
Its also complete accident that there is now a 20000 page "Patriot Act 2.0" being pushed as a solution.
- boredumb 6y ago
  The US Political class is just that good!
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  Links or is this FUD.
  - sonotmyname 6y ago
    Perhaps GlobalProtect was referring to HR 4192? https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-statement-opposing-hr-4192-confronting-threat-domestic-terrorism-act https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-statement-opposing-hr-4192-...
    - sonotmyname 6y ago
      darned auto-expansion. meant GP
dmead 6y ago
A bunch of assholes on here are trying to destabilize the country. what are you even on about?
refurb 6y ago
What I love about this comment is how politically ambiguous it is. You cant tell which “side” it’s arguing for which is exactly the point - the same argument can be used by both sides. That’s what makes it so dangerous.
- simonh 6y ago
  It's trying to equate calling out actual terrorist acts carried by self-identified insurrectionists, with calling "Everyone" a terrorist. No, we're not calling everyone a terrorist. Not even everyone on Parler, though clearly some were, and the service rules were set up to facilitate them planning their atrocities. We're calling these terrorists what they are. Pipe bombs and a dead policeman for goodness sake. Where do we draw the line?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
racl101 6y ago
Yeah, this precedent is very troubling to say the least. If or when things swing the other way, this will not go well for everybody.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ipsocannibal 6y ago
Well what is your suggested response? I think the lack of calling out terrorism and fascism in this country have already resulted four years of "pushing authoritarian and unethical measures" by the US executive.
- ErikVandeWater 6y ago
  '"pushing authoritarian and unethical measures" by the US executive' has gone on _much_ longer than 4 years.
- sb057 6y ago
  >Well what is your suggested response? If someone is committing crimes, then arrest and prosecute them.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  The response should be to pass $2k relief checks.
libraryatnight 6y ago
...these people are the authoritarians. They want to usher in some sort of bizarre "law and order" where they define what those things mean. They were literally beating police offers and saying "we're on your side" at the same time.
tw04 6y ago
The amount of victimization through projection currently taking place is kind of shocking. I don't know of a single person that has been called a Terrorist for anything other than calling for violence against others. Why self-proclaimed "peaceful" conservatives continue to lump themselves in with white-supremacists and domestic terrorists is beyond me. You can pretend that people are being persecuted for being a Republican but 30 seconds of fact checking will disprove that. In fact the only ones calling for violence against Republicans are those very same white supremacists and domestic terrorists because it seems that anyone that doesn't align with Donald Trump is somehow not a conservative. Mike Pence isn't a Republican? Really? I can't think of a politician much further right, and somehow he's no longer acceptable. If your political belief system is "whatever Trump thinks this week" then maybe it's time to re-evaluate what you really stand for.

traveler01 6y ago

Yeah this is plain retarded and I see too many people cheering this up. And mostly many of these users are not even Trump supporters and are having their data leaked. Where people have their brains nowadays...?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nullc 6y ago

Don't worry, the "hacked material" rule on twitter will prevent anything derived from this being posted on twitter. Right???

yalogin 6y ago
Applying the rules uniformly means Twitter should wait 4 yrs and then ban them. I am sure you will agree to that.
- nullc 6y ago
  You're referring to 2024 when twitter will ban the NY Times for posting materials derived from the orange clown's taxes and the NY Post for posting materials derived from the President-elect's son's laptop? Ah. Wait. They took one of these actions within an hour of it going up. :P I suppose it'll be no time at all until they take down the account of the person hacking Parler and live tweeting the content being discussed in this article... which they've been doing for that past ... 48 hours.
judge2020 6y ago
Since it's WARC and is going to end up on archive.org (archive.org is going to host it, but a different org 'archive team' are the ones who downloaded it), twitter isn't going to stop it from being posted since it's just going to show up as a link to web.archive.org. Arguably this isn't 'hacked data' since it's stuff that was wget'd and no security measure circumvention took place.
- nullc 6y ago
  > no security measure circumvention took place You don't consider exploiting 2fa fail-open being triggered by deplatforming by their 2fa provider being used to mass password reset accounts and vacuum up their private messages not a security circumvention? What about using a arbitrary content type upload on their video subdomain to implement an XSS attack to allow them to download all videos, including ones sent privately between users?

devwastaken 6y ago

"the media". You're not being honest, you either havent used the platform or are deliberately lying here. Either way a platform that freeley allows the organization of violent mobs has no place, and neither does anybody who supports it.

guscost 6y ago
So logically then, Twitter and all its users should be cancelled for freely allowing Antifa to organize there.
- mountainb 6y ago
  Yes, correct. The users are fine, just change the law to make things like Twitter impractical to run.
- bavent 6y ago
  Ah yes, Antifa, known for throwing milkshakes, is equivalent to pipe bombs, trucks filled with guns and explosives, and people walking around with zip ties looking for pols to kidnap inside a government building they killed a cop to break into. Right. I forgot.
  - boredumb 6y ago
    Correct, You obviously forgot the last 8 months where multiple people were killed, federal and private buildings were lit on fire, politicians were assaulted and they setup multiple "autonomous" zones. Perhaps I missed the latest phase of word games where the word 'milkshakes' encapsulates this sort of behavior?
  - guscost 6y ago
    25 people died in their riots last year.
  - rightoven9 6y ago
    You're pretty quick to forget the Autonomous zone in Seattle where people died, or the continuous destruction in Portland over the last few months. Either Parler and Twitter are both dangerous or neither of them are.

slothtrop 6y ago

I'm looking at one now.

LaMarseillaise 6y ago

You’re right: Parler’s negligence led to user data being taken. Parler should be punished for this.

coldtea 6y ago

People the "good people" disagree with politically and culturally are equivalent to nazis, and it's ok for them to have anything bad happen to them

redflame8 6y ago
Do you not understand that this logic leads to bigotry and genocide as people vie to out virtue signal one another out of fead
cactus2093 6y ago
Ermm, people who are trying to violently and undemocratically install an authoritarian government while using slogans like “6 million was not enough” are literally nazis. You’re gonna have to find another hyperbolically bad thing to accuse your opponents of fear mongering about.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >hyperbolically bad thing You mean like that these group was "violently and undemocratically install an authoritarian government"? Did you feel much scared of the possibility of some dictatorship (as opposed to an act of protest in the congress)? Second, even if they did seriously try to do that, heck, even if they succeeded in establishing an "authoritarian government", that wouldn't be enough to qualify them as "literally nazis". We don't call all authoritarian government nazis. Just the ones that actually are nazist. In fact, the most succesful ones we call "business as usual", with the Patriot Act, surveillance, several global wars, torture, etc...
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
    Do you, like, not get the “6 million...” reference? They also had functioning gallows, and a guy with a taser and zip ties running around in the Senate chamber just minutes after it was evacuated, and lots of “kill Mike Pence” shouting. Some people were there to take selfies. Others were there to take hostages.
  - 6y ago

beshrkayali 6y ago

The ramifications of this will absolutely set a record for the future as the inevitable reverse will happen. People are forgetting that if they're ok with this sort of behavior now, it'll be difficult for them to argue-against or prevent the same behavior when their opposites are in control.

guscost 6y ago
They are betting everything on the belief that they will win permanently this time, and their opponents will never get control again.
- valvar 6y ago
  It reminds me of Pascal's wager. How confident can one be that one's chosen political team will definitely win out in the long run? 90%? That seems very high, but even if you're 99% sure, are you willing to act in a way that will surely warrant retribution in the unlikely adverse scenario? Seems like a pretty dumb wager to make.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
boredumb 6y ago
Under the assumption people are remotely ingenuous I'd agree, but in recent years I think that ship has sailed. The means always justify the ends, and ideological consistency is apparently chalked up to a loser's game.
scythe 6y ago
>The ramifications of this will absolutely set a record for the future as the inevitable reverse will happen. Will happen? Try has happened. Partisan hacking has been a thing for a decade. Remember the DNC emails? Remember weev? >People are forgetting that if they're ok with this sort of behavior now What does it matter if I'm okay with it? Nobody consulted me before breaking into Parler. In fact, they didn't take my opinion into account at all. Sure, grey-hats are somewhat motivated by public opinion, but even Mitch McConnell gave a floor speech on Wednesday angry enough to incite a few keyboard taps. >it'll be difficult for them to argue-against or prevent the same behavior Because American politics consistently punishes hypocrisy, right?

Jedd 6y ago

Within 20m of this post being made, this <7d account is complaining about other people not complaining about the leak of private messages, without actually complaining about that specific problem.

caspper69 6y ago

I arrived at that conclusion all on my own. Something a disappointingly large portion of Trump supporters seem to be unable to do. And last I checked, the truth is that conservative media is a much larger slice of "the media" than it would have you believe, I mean, except when it touts its ratings to anyone who will listen.

ashtonkem 6y ago

There are several comments top level saying exactly that. I’m not sure what else you want from HN. Honestly, the speculative and proactive accusations of hypocrisy are getting really tiresome. I wish people would stop.

ulfw 6y ago

"the media told me these guys are the bad guys" and what do you think they are?

UncleMeat 6y ago

Most of the top level comments are mentioning that.

nkrisc 6y ago

I'm not gonna lie: I find it very difficult to be upset by this when the site was a haven for people who want to mass executions for people like me. For me, the world is a little more complex than "privacy at all costs." It's hard to decide where to draw the line.

LunaSea 6y ago
I would set the line at "following due process".
sanedigital 6y ago
Talk about hyperbole. In no way did even 1% of the population on Parler want mass executions for people like you.
- muspimerol 6y ago
  There's no hyperbole in the comment. It can still be a safe haven for extremists even if most of the users are not.
  - simonh 6y ago
    An even if they didn't agree with the sentiment, many or even most of those on the platform were perfectly happy to fraternise with those that did.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Should we still have due process in the external world? After all, the United States is a "safe haven" for people who talk about killing pretty much every minority group under the sun. > the world is a little more complex than "privacy at all costs." The line doesn't have to do with the infringement of privacy, it's about whether that infringement is being done by publicly sanctioned power, or the whim of the arbitrary, domineering power of private (tech) actors. Elizabeth Anderson has written quite well on this topic in "Private Government."
    - deleted 6y ago

enkid 6y ago

I don't think it's fair to lump everyone into a pile like that. I agree with the decision of tech companies not to host Parler and disagree with leaking its contents. The comments section on any forum is made of a variety of people with a variety of views. You shouldn't be looking at a web forum for consistency.

eudajmonia 6y ago

The find the whole narrative of dehumanising Trump supporters to be sick. The memory of all the pathological mob like violence that occurred during the BLM movement which occurred worldwide should still be fresh in all of our memories. If only the actors who incited that violence were held to this same standard.

hannasanarion 6y ago
Quick question, how many BLM mobs beat two cops to death with flagpoles? How many built gallows and rushed into government buildings with handcuffs looking for politicians to execute? How many battered down the door to the room where the Vice President and Speaker of the House were hiding chanting "Hang Pence, Hang Pelosi"? And how many of them were inspired by prominent politicians telling them "We are never going to concede", "we are going to take our country back", "it's time for a trial by combat", "we are going together to the Capitol", "Mike Pence betrayed us", etc etc etc
- neartheplain 6y ago
  I've recapped the depths of last summer's BLM/antifa violence in previous threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 Objectively, the summer's riots (as opposed to the more numerous peaceful protests) caused more deaths, injuries, and property damage. At the same time, the assault on the capitol was an unprecedented attack on democracy and the peaceful transition of power, to which there is no direct BLM parallel. For now, I suggest we all stop comparing these things. I don't think many are receptive to either side of the argument. Emotions are still running high, and we're not through the transition of power just yet.
  - hannasanarion 6y ago
    ooOOOOOoooo a video of a molotov cocktail, some people standing around and shouting, and a fake guillotine with a plastic blade, very scary. That's totally the same as invading the center of government decked out in illegal guns and armor while most of the line of succession is there, chanting your intention to murder them while breaking down doors, stealing government laptops, building a gallows to hang the politicians you don't like with, dragging police officers outside to beat them to death, all the while declaring the start of a new civil war, and while sympathetic insiders feed them real-time information about the location of the politicians you intend to kill, etc etc etc.

davewritescode 6y ago

I do feel terrible for those people. Parler needs to be held civilly liable for what they've done. The real crime here is that Parler was collecting sensitive information above and beyond what most social providers were asking for and still made shoddy security decisions.

RIMR 6y ago

No. These guys ARE the bad guys. Not "because the media said so". They are objectively the bad guys. Parler's members are the rejects that couldn't survive on mainstream platforms due to their poor conduct. That userbase just planned and executed an attempt at insurrection against the US government. The market overwhelmingly has agreed that Parler violated ethical standards egregiously enough that severing business ties is appropriate. I fail to see the importance of these people's privacy in the wake of recent events. I also fail to have sympathy for people who trusted this hacked-together Twitter clone with their personal information. Leaking this information sends a clear message: Extremism and violence are intolerable, and every possible means is at our disposal to fight back against it. That includes exposing violent extremists to the light of day.

cutitout 6y ago
> I fail to see the importance of these people's privacy in the wake of recent events. I also fail to have sympathy for people who trusted this hacked-together Twitter clone with their personal information. Then I fail to have any sympathy and solidarity with you. You're just another violent extremist in my eyes, and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend by a long shot.
- TomSwirly 6y ago
  > You're just another violent extremist in my eyes, Can you explain how not caring that a bunch of people got their data leaked makes you a "violent extremist"?
  - cutitout 6y ago
    I responded to someone who didn't even attempt to make the case how all users of Parler are "violent extremists", they just pulled out that broad brush to justify a transgression. That's intellectually so dishonest I see no functional difference between that and what one would criticize extremists for, and I don't see a meaningful difference between "not minding" a breach of someone's rights and committing it, so that's the violent bit. > He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. But if you don't mind their use of "violent extremists" apropos nothing, no, I don't particularly "care to" explain myself to you for using the same phrase in response to them -- I just do it because I can. You could simply remove or ignore my re-using that phrase and my point would stand unchanged. Address the core of an argument, don't just play "gotcha" while ignoring the context and the woods for the trees.

wpietri 6y ago

Where does it say private messages are being leaked?

wpietri 6y ago
Just to update, no private messages were leaked: https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832 https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832

intended 6y ago

Sure they are bad guys. This was also a bad thing to do, since, presumably - some of it was intended to be private or hidden. It will be interesting to see what the results of the content are. There have been many arguments implying that parler was "pretty normal". We can now empirically find out. As others have noted, this is also a lesson in design and code priorities.

avs733 6y ago

most of us are trying to reflect on whether this is 'private messages' or 'evidence of crimes' I doubt anyone on HN would take seriously any other service turning over evidence of a crime to authorities because its 'private messages'. We might not like that it is there policy but we damn well would know it is their policy and not use services where it is technically possible to plan crimes?

newacct583 6y ago

> the media told me these guys are the bad guys. They sacked the capitol and cheered it on (yes, almost exclusively as far as the people on Parler are concerned). They are indeed the bad guys.

go13 6y ago

I'm surprised to see how many people can not think for themselves but follow what media is telling them. I hope I don't do that myself but try to understand the matter and follow principles rather than sides. What I'm surprised the most is that with these complex and not obvious questions (at least to me) people without any shadow of a doubt are certain that it is right for big tech to censor Trump, shut down parler and take political sides like it happened. Maybe Trump is bad but at least i want to see his stupidity or his wrongdoing rather than other people to chew the news and feed me like im an infant. To me these questions require philosophical debates and dialogue (even with myself) to understand f it is right for a company to impose their political worldview on their clients - I don't feel it is right. But if others take these positions very easily, to me that is an indication that they got these ideas from somebody else rather than thought them through.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
You are currently witnessing the result of defunding humanities in favor of technical education.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  I have a feeling most of the professors in the Humanities departments would be not at all sympathetic to Parler or all the deplatforming happening around Donald Trump and his supporters. If anything they'd be broadcasting the Karl Popper "Paradox of Tolerance" as justification for everything that's been happening this week.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    Humanities students do not and should not merely repeat their professors’ opinions. To do so almost entirely misses the point of being educated.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- MattGaiser 6y ago

mr_overalls 6y ago

> media told me I create a Parler account myself out of curiosity's sake. The platform had basically no moderation, and was rife with open calls to violence. It was absolutely serving as a recruitment & coordination site for domestic terrorism.

astrea 6y ago
Didn't we learn from 4/8chan that letting people post whatever they want (semi-)anonymously leads to disgusting behavior?
- abvdasker 6y ago
  I think it's also that unmoderated forums become a magnet for people who want to spew hate, rather than anonymity inherently leading regular people into such behavior (though maybe the former causes some of the latter).
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  Older than that, here’s a take from 2004: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
- foolfoolz 6y ago
  reddit is the same thing. not all of 4chan is bad. not all of reddit is bad. but there is bad on both. it has nothing to do with the website it’s the format
  - dvlsg 6y ago
    The difference is that reddit at least tries to moderate calls to violence and hate speech. They don't always do a good job of it, though.
    - foolfoolz 6y ago
      4chan is moderated

driverdan 6y ago

Why is it awful? If something you say isn't end-to-end encrypted you should assume it could be made public. I wouldn't be upset if PMs from Twitter or FB were leaked either.

ahoy 6y ago

There are lots of those types of comments. Did you read?

cactus2093 6y ago

Why did you include that “the media told me” part? It dramatically weakens your argument. If you think you’re right and are arguing in good faith, why add this throwaway strawman to imply that everybody who disagrees with you must be brainwashed by the media and not thinking for themselves?

varvar 6y ago

It's amazing isn't it? Principles, ethics.. all talk for a lot of people, situations like these show it. Watch them spin it as a good thing for humanity as a whole. Amazing.

marcinzm 6y ago
Which side are you talking about in this?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I am reading this comment and I can't help but to chuckle. The reason I am saying is that can be read in several different ways and so does parent's post. We can just barely communicate with one another clearly so our proxy becomes 'who are you talking about exactly'. We need better communication tools -- language seems to be failing us.

salawat 6y ago

Was about to ask the same thing. My, how the story changes when it's on the other foot. This type of thing is exactly why we can't have noce things. Regardless of how you feel about the people in question, the fact is you've got people on the side of throwing even more fuel 9n the fire for stoking divisiveness and chaos. The sheer fraction of HN posters who show no apparent awareness of this is a bit offputting.

sj3k 6y ago

You can pretty easily see for yourself they are THE bad guys. There are calls for violence and white supremacist rhetoric ever way you turn. You really have to try hard to find the non horrible parts of that site.

kbelder 6y ago
You're slightly wrong by stressing "THE". They are SOME of the bad guys. Those weren't the only racially charged and violent riots that happened this year.

MattGaiser 6y ago

The 2nd most upvoted comment is about that. The most is about how the Parler developers are inept.

ipsocannibal 6y ago

Remember to blame the media, right. It helps flood the zone with misleading accusations. Racist fascists attacking a democratic institution while calling for blood are objectively bad guys. Full stop. If any of their private messages were used in planning and execution of that crime that is evidence on which they should be charged. That evidence will mostly be made public in the course of a trial. Everything else just delete.

hehehaha 6y ago

We’re you complaining when Snowden leaked? Or the Panama Papers?

electrondood 6y ago

I think most Americans have already judged for themselves. https://www.ipsos.com/en/american-reaction-pro-trump-mob-assaulting-capitol https://www.ipsos.com/en/american-reaction-pro-trump-mob-ass...

arbitrage 6y ago

A lot of this "what about their rights" bullshit is likely a covert misinformation campaign by botters and operatives. Hate speech is not protected. Plotting and committing treason against the United States government is not protected. Say unimaginably hateful shit, see how fast it takes to get punched in the mouth. Simple as that.

cbozeman 6y ago
> Hate speech is not protected. Yes it is. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment. The most recent Supreme Court case on the issue was in 2017, when the justices unanimously reaffirmed that there is effectively no "hate speech" exception to the free speech rights protected by the First Amendment. [1] > Say unimaginably hateful shit, see how fast it takes to get punched in the mouth. Simple as that. This is incredibly dangerous and short-sighted. I can tell you've likely never been in a fight, or very, very few. People who think this way need to be very fucking careful with their rhetoric here, because while they think they might be the Billy Badass who'll set the world 'right', there's a lot of other Billy Badasses out there who might just jerk a knot in their ass, either temporarily or permanently. You might want to take a more reasonable approach and figure out why someone feels the way they feel first. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat...
- MrMan 6y ago
  i am really sad that hate speech is allowed in the US. i think it is shameful and dangerous. I have no comment on you telling that other guy to be very fucking careful
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    > i am really sad that hate speech is allowed in the US. i think it is shameful and dangerous. Fortunately our founders realized how necessary speech is, especially speech we don't like. I'm waiting to see Noam Chomsky get canceled for saying, “Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.” > I have no comment on you telling that other guy to be very fucking careful He should be thankful, because I'm trying to save him from getting seriously injured - perhaps even killed one day. People who have a lot of experience fighting, especially having either seen or participated in fights outside of a controlled environment, will tell you just how incredibly dangerous it is to fight someone for whom you have no idea of their capabilities. You might have just picked a fight with someone with advanced combat training who will hand you your ass... even worse, you might have come upon someone with enough training you to seriously harm you, but not enough training to know how to exercise restraint. You are far better served to try to de-escalate a situation than to actively jump in like your John Wick... because you're not. John Wicks of the world are only fighting when they have no other option.

andrewclunn 6y ago

Account created 12 days ago... Will they make it a full 14 before they get shadow banned? A new user who doesn't understand what "hacker news" is really about, or somebody who knows exactly what it is and made an alt account to post stuff like this while protecting their main one? Ah the joys of modern censorship.

ibrault 6y ago

Everything that was "hacked" is just publicly-available information on Parler that was archived: https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832 https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832