5 ms·

Honestly I feel bad for the people who were duped into doing the ransacking. They thought their leader was telling them the truth. The fact remains that the Pr

Honestly I feel bad for the people who were duped into doing the ransacking. They thought their leader was telling them the truth. The fact remains that the President gathered tens of thousands of people and, with a torrent of lies, weaponized them into an attack on the United States. Just because it failed doesn't make it any less grave of a crime.

tetrometal 6y ago
> The fact remains that the President gathered tens of thousands of people and, with a torrent of lies, weaponized them into an attack on the United States. Just because it failed doesn't make it any less grave of a crime. I cannot fathom why you keep saying this. Please present some evidence.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  If you believe Trumps claims of malfeasance are true then the burden of proof lies with you. These matters were addressed in courts throughout the nation and 60 lawsuits failed to prove them.
  - tetrometal 6y ago
    Not really. The vast majority were thrown out on procedural grounds. The left completely controls the MSM at this point. It's unsurprising that large swathes of officials, including judges, are unwilling to investigate their narrative for fear of being branded and extremist of one flavor or another. The right knows this, and so doesn't trust outcomes that aren't transparent. The left knows this too, but has no incentive to correct it, in spite of the damage it's going to cause to our democracy. I have the feeling we're about to find out in the US precisely how the left can go too far, and how Americans respond to it.
    - mullingitover 6y ago
      > The vast majority were thrown out on procedural grounds. You'll be reassured to know they'll still be litigated soon. Dominion is coming for Sidney Powell over her fabricated claims, and I hope she gets a dignified, humane arrangement with a local homeless shelter after they're done with her.[1] I encourage everyone to read the entire filing. It's going to be a fun ride, I'm really looking forward to this case being heard in court. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-sues-sidney-powell-libel-billion-damages-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-sues-sidney-powell-...
trident5000 6y ago
I'm not really a fan. But I must say, he asked for a protest, not for them to storm the Capital. He probably wanted to stir it up, but never thought it would go that far. I have not seen any explicit tweets where he asked for that. The other thing I want to mention (in demonstrating the two standards) is that the dem leadership cheered on protests in the summer with battle like language which turned into far larger and more consequential riots that somehow we dont talk about anymore. Many lost their livelihoods and some their lives. These went on for months, not 6 hours. Those riots by the way were encouraged by dem leadership but somehow have not been penalized on twitter or even critiqued. The unlevel playing field that essentially a cartel is laying out which we see time and time again is what people are getting fed up with and I can sympathize. mullingitover - You might be correct that the claims were hyperbole. But I don't see a difference between the two sides in falsely justifying a protest that turned into a riot. For instance, the police brutality is not acceptable (and the imagery was terrible), but it was also mostly an astroturf and amplification of reality before an election to rally voters when you actually look at the FBI statistics of racial deaths in the hands of police. Both sides encouraged protests with battle like language. They both turned into destructive riots. One side was penalized.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  > But I must say, he asked for a protest, not for them to storm the Capital He's not completely stupid, at least in the short term. I'll give him that. The fact is, however, that he made breathtaking, wholly unfounded claims of a vast conspiracy that if you believed them would lead you to believe that a revolution was in order and completely appropriate. Then he turned them loose on the Capitol.
  - tetrometal 6y ago
    You're just making assertions and hoping that the zeitgeist continues to agree with you. It's easy for the winning side to trot out a bunch of people that support their position (and if you try suggesting R's are on the same side as Trump supporters, then you're more divorced from reality than I feared). Trump supporters don't care. They want specific concerns addressed. And frankly, they should be. Every election in a bona fide democracy should be characterized by the winning side steel manning the losing side's objections and addressing them one-by-one until the fraction of the population continuing to object is minuscule enough to ignore. That didn't happen. Instead objectors got people they didn't trust trotted out before them declaring "There's NO evidence of election fraud" (demonstrably false, there's evidence of election fraud in every election), stonewalling, and running out the clock. They should have steel-manned and addressed in a very public and forthcoming, unspun manner the more compelling arguments presented. Matt Braynard's [1] work, for example, should have been litigated to hell and back. Undergoing these challenges is critical to maintaining democracy, but the left was hell-bent on painting a narrative that pursuing election transparency in 2020 (not 2016, mind you; they had quite a different take then when they were mucking with the electoral college themselves [2]) was somehow antidemocratic because all questions had been settled by the people only they were permitted to declare trustworthy. So what we have now is a huge fraction of the population that feel the election has been stolen: "Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, but just as many Democrats (61%) say it’s Not At All Likely. Among unaffiliateds, 29% feel it’s a stolen election; 45% do not." [3] I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I'm about as pure a libertarian/ancap as you can find. I leaned slightly Trump because I despise war, but I would have been just as happy with Biden and a republican senate. I'm telling you with open eyes (the same eyes I use to attempt to discredit the Q and Lin Wood madness on the right) that you have bought into a false narrative sold to you by the leftist media. You are nowhere in the vicinity of "woke". You are stuck in a bubble that decries other bubbles and you don't even realize it. Worse, it's the most powerful bubble that is causing the most damage to society. It is YOUR bubble that is causing the most damage to democracy in this country. [1] https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/matt_braynards_data_analytics_have_paid_off.html https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/matt_braynards_... [2] https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/12/17/how-democrats-attempted-a-2016-electoral-college-coup/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/12/17/how-democrats-attempt... [3] https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/61_think_trump_should_concede_to_biden https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/ele...

tetrometal 6y ago

> The fact remains that the President gathered tens of thousands of people and, with a torrent of lies, weaponized them into an attack on the United States. Just because it failed doesn't make it any less grave of a crime. I cannot fathom why you keep saying this. Please present some evidence.

michaelmrose 6y ago
If you believe Trumps claims of malfeasance are true then the burden of proof lies with you. These matters were addressed in courts throughout the nation and 60 lawsuits failed to prove them.
- tetrometal 6y ago
  Not really. The vast majority were thrown out on procedural grounds. The left completely controls the MSM at this point. It's unsurprising that large swathes of officials, including judges, are unwilling to investigate their narrative for fear of being branded and extremist of one flavor or another. The right knows this, and so doesn't trust outcomes that aren't transparent. The left knows this too, but has no incentive to correct it, in spite of the damage it's going to cause to our democracy. I have the feeling we're about to find out in the US precisely how the left can go too far, and how Americans respond to it.
  - mullingitover 6y ago
    > The vast majority were thrown out on procedural grounds. You'll be reassured to know they'll still be litigated soon. Dominion is coming for Sidney Powell over her fabricated claims, and I hope she gets a dignified, humane arrangement with a local homeless shelter after they're done with her.[1] I encourage everyone to read the entire filing. It's going to be a fun ride, I'm really looking forward to this case being heard in court. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-sues-sidney-powell-libel-billion-damages-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-sues-sidney-powell-...

trident5000 6y ago

I'm not really a fan. But I must say, he asked for a protest, not for them to storm the Capital. He probably wanted to stir it up, but never thought it would go that far. I have not seen any explicit tweets where he asked for that. The other thing I want to mention (in demonstrating the two standards) is that the dem leadership cheered on protests in the summer with battle like language which turned into far larger and more consequential riots that somehow we dont talk about anymore. Many lost their livelihoods and some their lives. These went on for months, not 6 hours. Those riots by the way were encouraged by dem leadership but somehow have not been penalized on twitter or even critiqued. The unlevel playing field that essentially a cartel is laying out which we see time and time again is what people are getting fed up with and I can sympathize. mullingitover - You might be correct that the claims were hyperbole. But I don't see a difference between the two sides in falsely justifying a protest that turned into a riot. For instance, the police brutality is not acceptable (and the imagery was terrible), but it was also mostly an astroturf and amplification of reality before an election to rally voters when you actually look at the FBI statistics of racial deaths in the hands of police. Both sides encouraged protests with battle like language. They both turned into destructive riots. One side was penalized.

mullingitover 6y ago
> But I must say, he asked for a protest, not for them to storm the Capital He's not completely stupid, at least in the short term. I'll give him that. The fact is, however, that he made breathtaking, wholly unfounded claims of a vast conspiracy that if you believed them would lead you to believe that a revolution was in order and completely appropriate. Then he turned them loose on the Capitol.
- tetrometal 6y ago
  You're just making assertions and hoping that the zeitgeist continues to agree with you. It's easy for the winning side to trot out a bunch of people that support their position (and if you try suggesting R's are on the same side as Trump supporters, then you're more divorced from reality than I feared). Trump supporters don't care. They want specific concerns addressed. And frankly, they should be. Every election in a bona fide democracy should be characterized by the winning side steel manning the losing side's objections and addressing them one-by-one until the fraction of the population continuing to object is minuscule enough to ignore. That didn't happen. Instead objectors got people they didn't trust trotted out before them declaring "There's NO evidence of election fraud" (demonstrably false, there's evidence of election fraud in every election), stonewalling, and running out the clock. They should have steel-manned and addressed in a very public and forthcoming, unspun manner the more compelling arguments presented. Matt Braynard's [1] work, for example, should have been litigated to hell and back. Undergoing these challenges is critical to maintaining democracy, but the left was hell-bent on painting a narrative that pursuing election transparency in 2020 (not 2016, mind you; they had quite a different take then when they were mucking with the electoral college themselves [2]) was somehow antidemocratic because all questions had been settled by the people only they were permitted to declare trustworthy. So what we have now is a huge fraction of the population that feel the election has been stolen: "Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, but just as many Democrats (61%) say it’s Not At All Likely. Among unaffiliateds, 29% feel it’s a stolen election; 45% do not." [3] I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I'm about as pure a libertarian/ancap as you can find. I leaned slightly Trump because I despise war, but I would have been just as happy with Biden and a republican senate. I'm telling you with open eyes (the same eyes I use to attempt to discredit the Q and Lin Wood madness on the right) that you have bought into a false narrative sold to you by the leftist media. You are nowhere in the vicinity of "woke". You are stuck in a bubble that decries other bubbles and you don't even realize it. Worse, it's the most powerful bubble that is causing the most damage to society. It is YOUR bubble that is causing the most damage to democracy in this country. [1] https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/matt_braynards_data_analytics_have_paid_off.html https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/matt_braynards_... [2] https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/12/17/how-democrats-attempted-a-2016-electoral-college-coup/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/12/17/how-democrats-attempt... [3] https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/61_think_trump_should_concede_to_biden https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/ele...