8 ms·

Parler App delisted from Google Play; Apple threatening same within 24h

109 points by duckfang 6y ago

gu5 6y ago
Dupe? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691631
- cft 6y ago
  That was sunk by the mods off the first couple of pages, despite its upvoting velocity. PS you don't need to downvote this, just wait for the mod action. But for veracity, search for it on the first 3 pages. It's not there. And then compare its time of posting and score with entries that are there
  - zug_zug 6y ago
    No, HN automatically deranks articles that generate more comments than upvotes. Iirc they also derank articles that get flagged multiple times.
  - prvc 6y ago
    It happens automatically for contentious threads (measured in comments).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dane-pgp 6y ago
Step 1: Encourage everyone to use large centralized social media platforms. Step 2: Pressure those platforms to ban legal speech. (Unintended but predictable consequence: People move to less censored platforms.) Step 3: Pressure the mobile OS duopoly to ban the less censored platforms. ^-- You are here. Step 4: Ban mobile providers from supporting internet connections on unapproved mobile devices. Step 5: Ban general purpose computing devices.
- skoopie 6y ago
  There is no question in my mind that this is exactly where we are heading. It's coming very quickly as well.
- CarelessExpert 6y ago
  > Pressure those platforms to ban legal speech Wait, direct threats of violence and child porn are legal speech now? Because that's what you'll find on Parler. Edit: for the sake of accuracy, Parler is unquestionably rife with threats of violence that they refuse to remove. Go visit /R/parlerwatch and despair. They do, however, remove CP from the site if it's reported by users, but as of 2020-12-02 they admit they lack any automated systems for detecting and removing it at scale.
  - convery 6y ago
    Why is it that whenever someone posts a variation of "platforms shouldn't ban users for simply saying naughty words / having naughty opinions"; the first thing that comes to proponents minds is CP?
    - CarelessExpert 6y ago
      So you're just going to ignore the point, then, huh? Well, in case it wasn't clear, I'll try more words and hope this helps: Parler has knowingly allowed content to exist on their site that violates both the Google ToS and the law. This content isn't "naughty". It is very much illegal, and includes direct threats and incitement to violence among many other things. This includes, for example, calls to murder politicians, the police, etc. Parler has further affirmatively stated they will not remove that material despite having the ability to do so. In this way Parler distinguishes itself from Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and so forth. That is, of course, their choice. However, a failure to moderate this kind of material violates Google's ToS. It is therefore also Google's and Apple's choice to enforce their ToS and remove the Parler app from their store. In no way does this represent censorship (neither Google nor Apple are in any way obligated to distribute third party software), nor does the offending content represent legal speech.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Turns out being associated with a failed coup is bad for your brand. Lessons to live by.
- sawjet 6y ago
  Failed coup? A mob is not a coup
  - bufferout 6y ago
    define coup: "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government" Sudden: check Violent: check Illegal: check Attempt to sieze power from a government: check
    - gthtjtkt 6y ago
      So you think they were about to start legislating after they walked into the Capitol? How would that work exactly?
      - kadoban 6y ago
        They were there to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power of the government. They came with weapons, human restraints (flex cuffs), and were calling out politicians they disagree with and explicitly looking for them. The intention of several seems to have been to _at least_ take hostages if not worse. What would you call the threatening, kidnapping and possible murder of your political rivals for the express purpose of keeping your side in power? If that's not a coup I don't know what is. That they failed doesn't mean they didn't try.
        wpm 6y ago
        Some people would say the coup isn’t happening while the Speaker of the House is swinging from a fucking rope. It can’t be any clearer than it is now without more bloodshed and still people don’t want to believe it.
forgingahead 6y ago
Great and relevant comment from nicbou in the other thread:[0] Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate, and they are powerless to stop it. Is it surprising that they are furious about it, and explode in unpredictable ways? Wouldn't you do the same? [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691709
- ves 6y ago
  The American far left has a long history of being squeezed out of public fora and you don’t really see them storming the capitol. They don’t debate and they know they’re right. What’s the point in keeping them?
  - idanman 6y ago
    Yeah you are right. Instead they burn down businesses and riot in the streets and go attack far right rallies. It seems both far left and far right are embolden these days. No science on either side. No one wants to listen to the other side. Not a good situation.
    - jachee 6y ago
      I don't need to listen to the Qanon conspiracy theories, racist rants, gun worship, law enforcement deification, homophobia, transphobia and other dehumanizing speech of the far right. There is literally nothing of value to be gained.
      - idanman 6y ago
        This is a free country you can listen to whatever channel you want and let them listen to whatever they want.
z3ugma 6y ago
Ben Thompson's podcast did a great job covering this topic today: https://exponent.fm/episode-191-facebook-twitter-and-trump/ https://exponent.fm/episode-191-facebook-twitter-and-trump/ I'm a disheartened leftist today, and I don't think it's appropriate to remove these apps and the accounts of these groups. Platforms get pressure to remove individuals all the time. We've been trying for YEARS to get net neutrality written into law for ISPs, and I don't think it's too much of a leap to make for speech on Twitter. The individual posters they suppress come and go - today it's the Trump family, tomorrow, who could it be? Last summer, it was BLM. The problem is that tech platforms have no financial incentive to not amplify inciting speech. They economically benefit from people staying enraged and in their bubbles. This is platforms shirking responsibility, and perpetuating the system that allowed Trumpism to thrive. Deplatforming Trump will not stamp out white supremacy, and it won't improve the frustration of material conditions that are felt by working class people both left and right. If Twitter wanted to really make a difference in the world, they would stop selling user data and stop selling ads that earn them profit.
- newguy1234 6y ago
  Deplatforming just encourages people to seek out alternative platforms to use that have conservative moderations instead. Right wing going forward will not be going away. In fact, it will grow and the staunchness will become more hardline.
zelly 6y ago
we could have had decentralized computing (urbit) for a while now but you keep playing
- hobofan 6y ago
  There are also many other alternatives to Urbit that achieve the same general objective while not being actively user(/developer) hostile at every possibility.
  - zelly 6y ago
    PRs welcome
    - hobofan 6y ago
      I highly doubt that PRs that would change all the "different for the sake of being different" nomenclature of Hoon to align with the one that everyone is already used to from every other programming language would be welcome.
todipa 6y ago
Having them on the app platforms isn't good for business. Advertisers have threatened to boycott Apple and Google if they don't remove them.
- suyash 6y ago
  BS - half the country supports Trump, that's 50% of the business if you look it from advertising point of view.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    Trump supporters are unattractive demographics for advertisers because they're overwhelmingly old and rural, advertisers want to win over Gen Z and Millenials who are going to pay for decades, and not to mention the US is not the only, or even the primary market for most of these companies and being associated with Trump is particularly abysmal everywhere else. If you want to market to cosmopolitan, affluent, educated and diverse urban consumers, which everyone does, associating yourself with Trump isn't exactly a winning strategy
- bufferout 6y ago
  I suspect it has more to do with the next generation of policy makers about to be sworn in, and what regulation they would look to enact.
Bellamy 6y ago
Great to see that companies take a stand against the domestic terrorists and who are threatening the democracy.
InvOfSmallC 6y ago
Am I the only one thinking we are in this situation because of this approach even in FB and Twitter? What I mean is that FB and Twitter use algorithm that actually fuel this situation by letting me see not all the information but only what an algorithm thinks I would like. This basically means I can only see stuff in my yard instead of allowing for free debate. Removing Parler from the platforms looks like the same approach to me. Not really useful in the long run.

109 points by duckfang 6y ago

gu5 6y ago

Dupe? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691631

cft 6y ago
That was sunk by the mods off the first couple of pages, despite its upvoting velocity. PS you don't need to downvote this, just wait for the mod action. But for veracity, search for it on the first 3 pages. It's not there. And then compare its time of posting and score with entries that are there
- zug_zug 6y ago
  No, HN automatically deranks articles that generate more comments than upvotes. Iirc they also derank articles that get flagged multiple times.
- prvc 6y ago
  It happens automatically for contentious threads (measured in comments).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dane-pgp 6y ago

Step 1: Encourage everyone to use large centralized social media platforms. Step 2: Pressure those platforms to ban legal speech. (Unintended but predictable consequence: People move to less censored platforms.) Step 3: Pressure the mobile OS duopoly to ban the less censored platforms. ^-- You are here. Step 4: Ban mobile providers from supporting internet connections on unapproved mobile devices. Step 5: Ban general purpose computing devices.

skoopie 6y ago
There is no question in my mind that this is exactly where we are heading. It's coming very quickly as well.
CarelessExpert 6y ago
> Pressure those platforms to ban legal speech Wait, direct threats of violence and child porn are legal speech now? Because that's what you'll find on Parler. Edit: for the sake of accuracy, Parler is unquestionably rife with threats of violence that they refuse to remove. Go visit /R/parlerwatch and despair. They do, however, remove CP from the site if it's reported by users, but as of 2020-12-02 they admit they lack any automated systems for detecting and removing it at scale.
- convery 6y ago
  Why is it that whenever someone posts a variation of "platforms shouldn't ban users for simply saying naughty words / having naughty opinions"; the first thing that comes to proponents minds is CP?
  - CarelessExpert 6y ago
    So you're just going to ignore the point, then, huh? Well, in case it wasn't clear, I'll try more words and hope this helps: Parler has knowingly allowed content to exist on their site that violates both the Google ToS and the law. This content isn't "naughty". It is very much illegal, and includes direct threats and incitement to violence among many other things. This includes, for example, calls to murder politicians, the police, etc. Parler has further affirmatively stated they will not remove that material despite having the ability to do so. In this way Parler distinguishes itself from Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and so forth. That is, of course, their choice. However, a failure to moderate this kind of material violates Google's ToS. It is therefore also Google's and Apple's choice to enforce their ToS and remove the Parler app from their store. In no way does this represent censorship (neither Google nor Apple are in any way obligated to distribute third party software), nor does the offending content represent legal speech.

ashtonkem 6y ago

Turns out being associated with a failed coup is bad for your brand. Lessons to live by.

sawjet 6y ago
Failed coup? A mob is not a coup
- bufferout 6y ago
  define coup: "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government" Sudden: check Violent: check Illegal: check Attempt to sieze power from a government: check
  - gthtjtkt 6y ago
    So you think they were about to start legislating after they walked into the Capitol? How would that work exactly?
    - kadoban 6y ago
      They were there to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power of the government. They came with weapons, human restraints (flex cuffs), and were calling out politicians they disagree with and explicitly looking for them. The intention of several seems to have been to _at least_ take hostages if not worse. What would you call the threatening, kidnapping and possible murder of your political rivals for the express purpose of keeping your side in power? If that's not a coup I don't know what is. That they failed doesn't mean they didn't try.
      - wpm 6y ago
        Some people would say the coup isn’t happening while the Speaker of the House is swinging from a fucking rope. It can’t be any clearer than it is now without more bloodshed and still people don’t want to believe it.

forgingahead 6y ago

Great and relevant comment from nicbou in the other thread:[0] Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate, and they are powerless to stop it. Is it surprising that they are furious about it, and explode in unpredictable ways? Wouldn't you do the same? [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25691709

ves 6y ago
The American far left has a long history of being squeezed out of public fora and you don’t really see them storming the capitol. They don’t debate and they know they’re right. What’s the point in keeping them?
- idanman 6y ago
  Yeah you are right. Instead they burn down businesses and riot in the streets and go attack far right rallies. It seems both far left and far right are embolden these days. No science on either side. No one wants to listen to the other side. Not a good situation.
  - jachee 6y ago
    I don't need to listen to the Qanon conspiracy theories, racist rants, gun worship, law enforcement deification, homophobia, transphobia and other dehumanizing speech of the far right. There is literally nothing of value to be gained.
    - idanman 6y ago
      This is a free country you can listen to whatever channel you want and let them listen to whatever they want.

z3ugma 6y ago

Ben Thompson's podcast did a great job covering this topic today: https://exponent.fm/episode-191-facebook-twitter-and-trump/ https://exponent.fm/episode-191-facebook-twitter-and-trump/ I'm a disheartened leftist today, and I don't think it's appropriate to remove these apps and the accounts of these groups. Platforms get pressure to remove individuals all the time. We've been trying for YEARS to get net neutrality written into law for ISPs, and I don't think it's too much of a leap to make for speech on Twitter. The individual posters they suppress come and go - today it's the Trump family, tomorrow, who could it be? Last summer, it was BLM. The problem is that tech platforms have no financial incentive to not amplify inciting speech. They economically benefit from people staying enraged and in their bubbles. This is platforms shirking responsibility, and perpetuating the system that allowed Trumpism to thrive. Deplatforming Trump will not stamp out white supremacy, and it won't improve the frustration of material conditions that are felt by working class people both left and right. If Twitter wanted to really make a difference in the world, they would stop selling user data and stop selling ads that earn them profit.

newguy1234 6y ago
Deplatforming just encourages people to seek out alternative platforms to use that have conservative moderations instead. Right wing going forward will not be going away. In fact, it will grow and the staunchness will become more hardline.

zelly 6y ago

we could have had decentralized computing (urbit) for a while now but you keep playing

hobofan 6y ago
There are also many other alternatives to Urbit that achieve the same general objective while not being actively user(/developer) hostile at every possibility.
- zelly 6y ago
  PRs welcome
  - hobofan 6y ago
    I highly doubt that PRs that would change all the "different for the sake of being different" nomenclature of Hoon to align with the one that everyone is already used to from every other programming language would be welcome.

todipa 6y ago

Having them on the app platforms isn't good for business. Advertisers have threatened to boycott Apple and Google if they don't remove them.

suyash 6y ago
BS - half the country supports Trump, that's 50% of the business if you look it from advertising point of view.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Trump supporters are unattractive demographics for advertisers because they're overwhelmingly old and rural, advertisers want to win over Gen Z and Millenials who are going to pay for decades, and not to mention the US is not the only, or even the primary market for most of these companies and being associated with Trump is particularly abysmal everywhere else. If you want to market to cosmopolitan, affluent, educated and diverse urban consumers, which everyone does, associating yourself with Trump isn't exactly a winning strategy
bufferout 6y ago
I suspect it has more to do with the next generation of policy makers about to be sworn in, and what regulation they would look to enact.

Bellamy 6y ago

Great to see that companies take a stand against the domestic terrorists and who are threatening the democracy.

InvOfSmallC 6y ago

Am I the only one thinking we are in this situation because of this approach even in FB and Twitter? What I mean is that FB and Twitter use algorithm that actually fuel this situation by letting me see not all the information but only what an algorithm thinks I would like. This basically means I can only see stuff in my yard instead of allowing for free debate. Removing Parler from the platforms looks like the same approach to me. Not really useful in the long run.