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A Porsche Taycan Just Beat Tesla for the Fastest EV Cannonball Run Record
- diebeforei485 6y agoCannonball Runs have gotten a lot easier during the pandemic because traffic is drastically lower than usual. I'm not sure comparing this to a pre-pandemic record makes any sense.
- _s 6y agoI think for EV’s the traffic impact isn’t that valid - you need to aim for around 100km/h for greatest efficiency (watt/km), and then there’s the charging of the batteries - usually an hour or two with fast charging.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoTesla fast charging at Superchargers is closer to 15-30 minutes, depending on several factors (temperature, battery pack size, state of charge, etc). I have had some 45-60 minute outliers on rare occasions, but it isn’t the norm (over my ~30k miles of road tripping).
- mediaman 6y agoIf the optimal overall speed is determined by greatest efficiency, which means a reasonable maximum speed, then I would think traffic would have an even bigger impact: it's not profitable to compensate for heavy traffic with absurd speeds in rural highways, so the overall speed is really just determined by (1) amount of traffic, (2) battery size, (3) charge time, and (4) aerodynamics. In this case I'd expect traffic is really the dominant factor.
- postmeta 6y agoneed a big truck to draft behind for max efficiency :)
- diebeforei485 6y agoIt also means you aren't waiting for superchargers, and also it's generally faster to charge if the charging station is empty.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- abhisuri97 6y agoI wonder if the EV cannonball community will start to experiment with the battery packs. I know that some of the combustion engine runs have usually carried extra fuel tanks...could the same sort of idea be viable for the EV versions? (though I imagine the weight of the batteries would be too much to deal with).
- toomuchtodo 6y agoYou’ll need faster charging and larger batteries (larger batteries allow for sustained peak charge rates longer when you roll into a charger station at very low state of charge). Taycan has an 800V battery pack, so can leverage higher Fast DC charge peaks from CCS chargers (vs Tesla 400V packs and Superchargers).
- bob1029 6y agoYou could always develop a small trailer-based solution that is aerodynamic and towed behind the car. Have them placed ahead of time on the route, and drive to each to swap out. Should be a relatively quick changeover (<60 seconds with practice).
- cobookman 6y agoIf you don't care about battery damage, could probably increase the charge rate without a larger battery on board. Sure might increase the ods of a battery catching fire, or reduction in battery life. But if you're trying to get the fastest time...you might not care
- Scoundreller 6y agoMight explain why this record is being set in early January when the temperatures are cooler = faster charges but not too cold.
- bradleyy 6y agoAll the competitive (ICE) runs have additional fuel cells.
- 6y ago
- _e 6y agoI'm shocked that Porsche and Electrify America condoned this.
- canniballectern 6y ago"Though Porsche Cars North America does not condone, promote, or acknowledge any sort of activity that would violate the rules of the road, we were pleased to see how well the Taycan and the charging infrastructure did during Kyle’s test," a Porsche spokesperson said in an email
- imron 6y ago> "Though Porsche Cars North America does not condone, promote, or acknowledge any sort of activity that would violate the rules of the road, And yet in the very next sentence they acknowledge it
- nannal 6y agoNot only that but they reported that a team from one of the organizations was actively assisting by monitoring the charging.
- nrb 6y agoIt sounds like they at least facilitated it by providing a car and making engineers available “on speed dial” as the author states.
- rasz 6y agonevertheless >Fortunately, Conner tells us that he had the engineers at both Porsche and Electrify America on speed dial for this run. Despite it being New Year's Eve, he was able to work with the teams to ensure that the car was operating to its potential (despite the bugs) and the chargers he was visiting were both working and reliable. does not condone, but still allocates overtime for engineers on New Year's Eve to help ...
- ipnon 6y agoThe lack of charges is positively electrifying!
- hristov 6y agoI do wish people would not publicize cannonball runs. Racing on public streets is dangerous and should not be encouraged. The Porsche Taycan looks worse than the high performance Tesla's based on published EPA numbers but it has some advantages the EPA numbers do not show. The Taycan can maintain high power output for longer before overheating. This makes it good for racing, probably better than the Teslas, but please do your racing on proper race tracks.
- centimeter 6y agoI think we should have some sort of multi-tier license system so that scenic routes are sometimes limited to certain license classes. For example, Highway 1 is a beautiful drive, but it's often kind of ruined by idiots in minivans driving 5 miles below the (already low) speed limit and being too rude and self-centered to pull of into a stopping lane and let the dozens of cars behind them pass. If, for example, on Saturdays the 1 was restricted to people with a "reasonably competent" license (indicating that you're willing and able to safely drive e.g. within stated speed limit to speed limit + 10mph), with ticketing expected for people driving too slowly, that would be awesome. You could have further refinements along the lines of once a month the road is restricted to people with "very competent" licenses, indicating that they intend to drive high-performance vehicles at high speed. I think the social utility of this kind of policy would be very positive. The negative externality to mediocre drivers of not being able to drive on scenic routes occasionally isn't very large, but the benefit to good drivers would be huge!
- turbinerneiter 6y agoIt would also fix the problem of people who race on public roads under the impression of being good drivers. Their families would miss them, tough.
- centimeter 6y agoIt’s OK to enjoy doing things that are mildly dangerous. You don’t have to live your life in a cushioned bubble.
- acdanger 6y agoFor those who aren't familiar with the history of the Cannonball Run, the podcast Criminal did a very entertaining episode on it recently: https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-155-cannonball-12-18-2020 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-155-cannonball-12-18-2020
- nixass 6y agoTesla will face real problems once old school car manufacturers ramp up their EV production
- Seanambers 6y agoSome real in depth analysis there.
- rio517 6y agoAnnalists have been saying this for years. I'm skeptical. Along many other reasons, there aren't enough batteries to go around.
- d1zzy 6y agoI don't know how the battery situation will play out but in Europe Tesla sales have already flattened (while other manufacturer EVs are picking up) which is not a good sign.
- vardump 6y agoPerhaps Tesla's market share in Europe could have been better had they had actually cars to ship there? Just saying. Tesla had a record year and consistently high demand for Model 3 and Model Y.
- diegocg 6y agoIt has already happened in Europe.
- imron 6y agoThey are unwilling to do so in the timeframe needed to make a difference because they are too invested in their ICE vehicles. They'll start trying once the market has already shifted and by then it will mostly be too late.
- BoorishBears 6y agoWhat is the time frame needed? Once upon a time Tesla just needed to sell a lot of cars to justify their valuation. The time frame for that to happen was really not that long. Now Tesla just needs to sell all the cars to justify their valuation. Sell all of them and then some really. So is the idea that the rest if the industry will just evaporate and Tesla becomes the Xerox of cars? I remember price targets being based on having half the car market in a few decades back at $1000 pre-split
- dm319 6y agoI think now might be a good time to stop obsessing over acceleration of EV cars. What Tesla did with their high-performance EV cars was to prove that electric did not equate to a milk float, and they shut up the performance-car obsessed pistonheads and the car press with their 0-60 times. But this is turning into a penis-waving / megapixel arms race, where EV journalism is obsessed with only two metrics - range and performance. We're at the point now where EVs are generally faster than their ICE counterpart (due to smooth power application, consistent torque and no requirement for gear changes), with a range that will meet the needs of 95%+ of daily commutes. There are a whole range of different types of EV vehicles, in terms of size, luxury, and purpose to meet different needs, but the reviews seem to obsess over a drag race. What we need now is a good EV charging infrastructure. Widely available rapid charging that will give your EV 2 hours of driving for 20 minutes will mitigate the need for bigger batteries. And not just for Tesla.
- tashoecraft 6y agoI think the big problem is people still care about this stuff. Car heads have always bragged about the speed of their vehicles, that’s not going to change just because electric cars are faster off the line.
- dm319 6y agoYou're right that it's purely a bragging point. A status symbol, or if it's really just for personal enjoyment, then a gimmick that will amuse you the first 10 times you launch from the lights. Sure, having a reasonably quick car is useful for overtaking and pulling out, but then we'd regard performance as being 'good enough', rather than marking down a car for doing 0-60 0.2s slower than another. I wonder if EVs will change things. It seems the likes of Kia and Nissan are able to put pretty powerful and efficient electric engines into their motors (150kW is not bad). I think what limited the availability of high performance ICE cars was the fuel efficiency and tax. If that's not such an issue with EVs, then performance will become less of a bragging point I guess.
- phkahler 6y ago>> What we need now is a good EV charging infrastructure. Haha. I've just started working on the charging end of this, after years of drivetrain stuff. The J1772 standards for chargers has some good features and some... politics. Biggest complaint: why mandate a PHY for broadband over power lines when the signals dont go over the high current conductors? Next up, everyone wants to play middleman with billing systems and cloud connections. Tesla, can we all just use your connectors before more of this nonsense gets built?
- markvdb 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonball_Run_challenge#Legality_and_ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonball_Run_challenge#Legal...
- diegocg 6y agoTo the surprise of no one - it's well know that the Taycan focused a lot in repeated long term performance, an area where electric cars have historically been weak (Google "Tesla limp mode") https://imgur.com/TLJsalm.jpg https://imgur.com/TLJsalm.jpg Then again, Porsche is a much more expensive car and Porsche engineering is top-notch. Most brands don't care that Porsche beats them. But hype that makes people assume weird things.
- BoorishBears 6y agoI have no idea what this comment is trying to say. Most brands making performance cars absolutely care that Porsche beats them. Trying to imply that a brand that's been putting their performance EV through the paces at the Ring doesn't care a competitor just out out a plain better performance car in a similar segment on their first attempt reeks of sour grapes.
- STRML 6y agoThe Cannonball Run has very, very little to do with repeated 0-60 pulls.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoIf you read TFA, you'll find that it was suprising, for the simple reason that the Taycan cannot use the Tesla supercharging network.
- fransiscoli 6y agoI really love the Porsche Taycan, but Tesla's expansive charging network ties me to the Model S.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoI'm confused. The Taycan range is ~200 miles. The LR Model 3 is 310, or 325 depending on when in 2019 they did the run. How does a car with 50% more range per charge take more time? Perhaps the Taycan they used could take a 270kW download and the Tesla only 150kW? It charged faster? Also, what is the calculus on optimal speed? Two factors substantially impact range on my Model 3: Speed and incline. Driving faster means stopping more often and 30 minutes of charge time at Cannonball speeds is going to be 45 miles lost. Gasoline pit stops could be under 10 minutes and much less impactful to optimum drive speed. I'd like to see the details of the speed driven at and the pit stops made by both the Model 3 run in 2019 and the Taycan run in 2020. It's not adding up.
- bobobob420 6y agoThey could have just done a much more efficient cannonball on many factors. I’m sure it first had to beat the Tesla on paper for them to even attempt it which means theirs some calculation you could do yourself to prove it would be faster.
- m463 6y agocharging tapers off. It's quite possible to charge a 100kwh tesla next to a 30kwh leaf and have them both take the same amount of time. The trick to charging efficiently timewise is to start with an empty battery and charge to say 80%. Here's one of the best looks at this I've found: https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/6-tesla-battery-charging-data-from-801-cars/ https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/6-tesla-ba... the thing the graph doesn't show is % vs time, which would make it more clear. Also the graphs are old and don't show the newer higher-speed charging. Also, you could charge depending on the distance to the next stop, because overcharging could slow you down. It slows you down by taking longer to charge to higher charge levels, and also by not draining the battery low enough so the next charge will start closer to zero where charging is fastest. another unrelated but still interesting article is power consumption vs speed: https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/22-tesla-model-3-performance-vs-rwd-consumption-real-driving-data-from-233-cars/ https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/22-tesla-m... https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/9-tesla-model-s-consumption-vs-speed/ https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/9-tesla-mo...
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoJust for comparison, they did the EV run in "42 hours and change"; the current non-EV cannonball record is 27:25.
- bradleyy 6y ago25:39, actually. Arne Toman and Doug Tabbutt (with Berkeley Chadwick) set the 27:25 pre-covid, and then (after having been beaten 7 times) did a 25:39 during covid. Yes, most Cannonballers view "covid runs" as a special case, but the record is the record.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y agoI found this part the most interesting: > Conner's existing record of 45 hours and 16 minutes set in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range So this is comparing a luxury sports car to an entry level mass-market car, and they beat it by only a few percent.
- Aeronwen 6y agoNo, An entry level mass-market car would beat both the Porsche and the Tesla by hours.
- rasz 6y agoAnd to thing all it took was a 2x more expensive car and a direct support of both manufacturer, one who officially "Porsche Cars North America does not condone, promote, or acknowledge any sort of activity that would violate the rules of the road", and a charging network engineers. >Conner tells us that he had the engineers at both Porsche and Electrify America on speed dial for this run. Despite it being New Year's Eve, he was able to work with the teams to ensure that the car was operating to its potential (despite the bugs) and the chargers he was visiting were both working and reliable.
- dingaling 6y ago> all it took was a 2x more expensive car Actually in most of the World the price difference is much less. For example in the UK, Model S Performance 95k GBP versus 140k. Not that it matters as such because both are so far beyond the means of the common driver as to be irrelevant. Any company can build an awesome EV for those prices, the real challenge is building a decent one for a price that a shop worker can afford.
- cosmiccatnap 6y agoThis entire thread will be a tesla pitty party and I will have no part in the bandwagon. Many excuses in this comment thread referring to the pandemic clearing the streets while also ironically calling cannonball runs dangerous. You see no such comments on similar tesla threads that have appeared. Too many people here clearly bought tesla stock and don't have the good decency to put their vested interest asside to evaluate this critically. Yes it's more expensive but that never mattered when it was about a tesla vs cheaper EV cars of similar relative markup, but more importantly it couldn't use tesla's charging network meaning it went faster, longer, which when that was applies to a tesla over say a leaf, was an acceptable markup, here for some reason it's not... How many more threads do we have to have pointing out the inherant and blatent stock price inflation of tesla before this bubble pops and people are shocked to find that it's worth about what it makes which are as of now, niche cars with some very questionable dark patterns and an obtuse and irratic pricing/valuation model. Lots of ifs and maybes but so far that's it...just the cars and of questionable value at that. If your first instinct was to poke holes in this when you were fine to defend tesla without reading the article you should evaluate why you are here to begin with because it's clearly not to learn, improve, or help anyone else do the same. You might as well spend all day in /r/amd talking about how bad intel is or vice versa if you need a community to validate you blindly.