31 ms·

Infosec implications of the US Capitol physical breach

378 points by ytpete 6y ago

ytpete 6y ago
The linked tweet is from a past Congressional sysadmin, so it seems reasonably authoritative - but it's cited in thread that's connected to some other interesting opinions on this: https://twitter.com/JoeUchill/status/1346983998627532800 https://twitter.com/JoeUchill/status/1346983998627532800 https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1346975210017234945 https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1346975210017234945 https://twitter.com/MiekeEoyang/status/1347000537208803328 https://twitter.com/MiekeEoyang/status/1347000537208803328
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  These responses are over the top. The photo of the congressional office that is circulating shows a wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse, and an unlocked workstation. That tells a pretty damning story about the ambient level of security awareness in congressional offices. Congress has a very serious technology competence problem. Probably a better long term strategy to focus on that.
  - zwp 6y ago
    I agree. The risk from this intrusion is not a whole lot different (and considerably more overt) than from the access that any number of other people have had to this building in the past. (Tour guides, visiting civilians, contractors, cleaners, ...). Professional attackers were not waiting to follow a Jamiroquai knock-off around during an event whose CCTV footage will be heavily scrutinized. (See for example (50 years ago) https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/15/world/the-bugged-embassy-case-what-went-wrong.html https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/15/world/the-bugged-embassy-...). This may be a good incentive to review policies such as full disk encryption and proximity-card workstation lock/unlock but pulling miles of CAT-6 from this building is not a sensible response: defenses _should_ already account for this sort of threat. If purple team has not already "what if"'ed this particular variant of the evil maid problem then that's a serious issue but clearly weak physical security was already a known feature of the threat model.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    What makes you so sure said workstations had any significant value or access worth locking it down like it held the launch codes or something? According to one of the replies in the tweets you linked, pretty much everything would have been open information anyway. All this talk from random internets about how "terrible" their infosec is strikes me as a bunch of armchair quarterbacking by people who think they know a lot more than they do... so basically your typical tech worker I guess.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    I'd rather they not focus on security. I'd rather everything they do with their computers is live streamed all the time really. Their incompetence isn't any different than the average person in the work force, and they shouldn't be keeping secrets anyway. I'm sure some replies and downvotes to this will think I am crazy because they have important secrets like terrorism intel etc, and yes I understand that, but continue to disagree. I believe a nation could function just fine without secrets. It would simply be different. We don't a good job with the secrets anyway.
    - jaredklewis 6y ago
      Terrorism intel is the least of my concerns with your proposal. IMHO, privacy is a key part of negotiation, creativity, and planning. Lack of privacy would make it difficult for them do their jobs well or (more likely) drive them to use unofficial, private channels. Sometimes a deal or a new idea needs a "safe space" to grow. I assume you are a programmer (this is HN). Do you think operations at your company would improve if everyone's screen was constantly broadcast to management? Personally, I'd prefer to be judged on my job performance, rather than having some non-engineer decide if I'm doing a good job based on their impression of what's on my screen. The legislative record and public statements of our congressmen are almost always enough to evaluate their competence.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
unixhero 6y ago
What is this? Eritrea?
themark 6y ago
Is there a ‘server room’ in the Capitol? Was is breached?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ilikepi 6y ago
  There probably is, and it probably wasn't. There's a big difference between an office of someone who regularly meets with visitors and a room that is likely limited to a handful of people under controlled circumstances. It's likely there's a whole secured area of the building dedicated to operations (telecomm, engineering, etc).
  - gibolt 6y ago
    They did enter several congresspeople's offices, with at least Pelosi's computer completely unlocked. Emergency situation meant they left immediately, and potentially left the whole government vulnerable to future attacks in the process
    - ilikepi 6y ago
      Oh totally... It's slightly surprising there's not an emergency evacuation procedure for people who work in the building that involves locking all devices that remain in the building via a hot-key or hot-corner. Come to think of it, I wonder if a screen lock command is something that could be pushed from a Windows domain controller...and if so, why wasn't that used?
      - banana_giraffe 6y ago
        Windows 10 can be setup to auto-lock if a bluetooth phone goes out of range, and there's a little eco system of third party companies that make keyfobs that do the same basic thing. Even if it's not a common feature, it's not like I'd be surprised to learn these computers are imaged with some custom software, one of which could be a lock on command (or loss of connectivity to home). I have no idea how important these machines were, of course.
btmiller 6y ago
In terms of physical intrusion, a tremendous amount of security theater was exposed today. Quite astonishing how easily people were able to gain access.
- ReaganFJones 6y ago
  I'm not sure if it could be largely characterized as security theater. The videos from the Capitol demonstrate just how outmatched the police were: https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1347031398176223233 https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1347031398176223233 There were clear examples of failures like the police letting them in or taking selfies with them. We'll see what oversight gets applied to the Capitol police... https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/capitol-riots-police-firings-455698 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/capitol-riots-polic...
  - preommr 6y ago
    > The videos from the Capitol demonstrate just how outmatched the police were Not sure if I understand the point you're trying to make. They shouldn't have been outmatched in the first place. The protest was planned and the information was extremely overt. Something went horribly wrong for this to happen.
    - sterlind 6y ago
      Any one of those protestors could have brought in a bomb. They weren't exactly going through metal detectors. Given that a pipe bomb was found at the RNC, and a suspicious package of some sort at the DNC, I'm surprised someone didn't try. I wonder how worried security there was about explosive devices and weighing whether to open fire.
      - zionic 6y ago
        And yet they didn’t. Consider the implications of that
        6y ago
baggy_trough 6y ago
Certainly would be a number of spies along for the joy ride.
- 8note 6y ago
  You'd expect trump to have already let the spies though the front door though
  - pvfffghhr 6y ago
    To let them spy on himself? How does that make sense?
    - osgovernment 6y ago
      No, to let them spy on America. There are several instances of Trump going against his intelligence community, specifically in regards to Russia, to weaken America's cyber-defense. There are legitimate reasons to be concerned that he was being blackmailed by a foreign government to weaken America's institutions, and sow chaos and division.
raziel2701 6y ago
We spend 700 billion in defense yet allow a dude in a buffalo costume to storm the senate floor.
- detaro 6y ago
  you also spend ~450 million on capitol police alone...
- nullc 6y ago
  Dudes in buffalo costumes are pretty harmless. And the senate floor isn't a particularly important piece of ground to hold (when the Senators are not there at least). Expending lots of resources and good will smashing what was essentially theatre-- wouldn't have been a good move. If only we treated more protests like that: Stood back and people show their anger, then move on with our lives -- message heard-- with minimal injury and damage. [I'm aware that a protester was shot and killed inside the capitol building -- but relative the scope of the event, I think it's still fair to characterize it as that way] FWIW, the Capitol building is normally substantially open to the public.
  - hndudette2 6y ago
    > Stood back and people show their anger, then move on with our lives -- message heard-- with minimal injury and damage. Disagree on that point. Allowing riots creates a lot of anger on the other side of the political isle. Also, the rioters are often not representative of the majority of protestors and undermine the entire movement (think about the BLM rioters' impact on how the overall movement was perceived). They also often lead to a violation of rights; property destruction, assaults, deaths, etc. Almost nobody - on any side - wants a small number of thugs to run the show.
    - mustacheemperor 6y ago
      Agreed, the first half of MLK’s famous “a riot is a language of the unheard” quote states that the conditions existing in America which foment riots “must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots.” Our collective goal should always be to resolve the conditions that lead to rioting. But when a riot occurs it should be stopped and dispersed as safely and expediently as possible.
coolgod 6y ago
American citizens can't even enter their own house now?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- sanp 6y ago
  So, try getting into a missile silo. That's paid for with tax dollars as well. Maybe we should allow anyone in there. Why not the allow people to walk into the oval office?
  - adventured 6y ago
    You're comparing a public service building where normal everyday democratic governmental duties occur - a building specifically of the people - with what is supposed to be a highly secure military installation in which the sole mission of that installation is to launch missiles and cause death & destruction. Never mind, you're right, the Capitol is also a building where mass death & destruction is launched from.
  - 8note 6y ago
    Have you not seen that John Oliver episode about the nukes? Basically anyone could get in there if they want, but they probs don't want to because knocking over a wrench could easily set the whole place on fire in a conflagration of missile fuel
    - kodah 6y ago
      I would firstly remind you that John Oliver is an entertainer. I served in the Marines with people from Marine Corps Security Forces. If you go anywhere near a nuclear silo there is a Security Forces Quick Response Force platoon that has already been tracking you and is on their way to intercept you. If you somehow overwhelm a Security Forces platoon you will now need to face the onslaught of the rest of the Security Forces Regiment, all of which are classified as part of Special Operations capabilities within the Marine Corps. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Security_Force_Regiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Security_Force_Re...
rasz 6y ago
What about physical safety of Senators? They let them in an ~hour after the mob ransacked the place. Not enough time to scan for explosives, and they already found two pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails, not to mention some guns in nearby parked truck. This is crazy :o
- seanp2k2 6y ago
  this was my thought as well. No idea why that was allowed to happen. No way that they went through everything with enough scrutiny in that timeframe.
  - andirk 6y ago
    Also needs disinfecting from most of them not wearing masks and shouting and unkempt.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  Some of the mob might already have the appropriate clearances for the various computer systems. I’m unsure if house delegates can enter with weapons though. https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/06/w-va-delegate-just-sworn-in-among-the-rioters-storming-u-s-capitol/ https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/06/w-va-delegate-just-sworn-...
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Evans is not a US congressperson, he’s a representative in West Virginia’s state legislature. He has zero official business in the US Capitol.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > some guns in nearby parked truck I imagine they're more restrictive than here, but I don't know the laws in DC. Around here finding some guns in a parked truck would not be noteworthy. Given that some of these people probably came from well outside of DC, I wouldn't be at all surprised they just drove their truck up with whatever was in it already without a thought. Unfortunately, I also wouldn't be surprised to hear that they intentionally brought them just in case some of their buddies forgot their weapons for the coup attempt. That is, sadly, the country we've made for ourselves.
luxuryballs 6y ago
They basically let them in, it wasn’t a breach. It may as well have been orchestrated to derail the session because now all the objection debates are happening at 1AM o.O
- PartiallyTyped 6y ago
  There's a video floating around where the police literary opened the barricades.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    If you watch that video the rioters are already behind that barricade. The video pans round at the end and you can see a flood of people crossing the barricade just to the side of them as well. The police were clearly unprepared and way too lenient but it also makes no sense for them to defend a piece of fence that's already compromised.
    - bradford 6y ago
      I've watched the video and I agree. My take: there's a large security perimeter that's already been breached, and the video shows one chokepoint of the perimeter that hasn't yet been breached. The officers at that checkpoint know what the situation is: They aren't going to do any good in an open space surrounded by a mob of thousands. They are moving back to a more defensible position (presumably where they can buy time to evacuate the Congress floors). They are calmly walking because breaking into a jog could incite the mob further. I don't see them opening the gates.
      - meheleventyone 6y ago
        This is also basically what happened right at the beginning when the rioters very violently broke through the first fence badly injuring at least one cop. As soon as it was obvious the mob was overwhelming things and the police had rescued their colleagues they fell back at a run to the next line. Pretty standard defensive tactics from time immemorial. That there were only three officers and a fence that was easy for the rioters to lift and batter the police with is concerning.
stef25 6y ago
It was quite the adventure watching this all on TV from Europe. One thought that comes to mind is that I'm sure the most heavily armed nation in the world could have gotten rid of these people in no time, but perhaps they didn't because of the symbolism of the location. Here in Brussels' main court house (a massive imposing building like the Capitol), a guy once just strolled in and shot and killed a judge (correction: a judge and a clerk, in 2010) and then just strolled out. The minister of justice said they would not improve security because they wanted the place to remain "of the people, for the people" (paraphrased from memory, it doesn't make total sense but you get the jest of it). I have friends working at the European parliament where at one time was a group of people protesting against the presence of Marine Le Pen, rocks in hands. There were exactly 2 (unarmed) "security guards" present who told my friend they obviously stood no chance if these people decided to charge. On another occasion 100 Kurdish protestors managed to break in to the building. But they just don't want these places to look like Fort Knox. In the end, a guy in buffalo costume fooling around on the senate floor is better than puddles of blood.
- kube-system 6y ago
  As a kid, I walked right into the front doors of the US Capitol, down the hall, and into one of my representatives offices. (Without adult supervision too!) They were quite friendly. The building has security, of course, but it’s not like some kind of off-limits private building. https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/watching-congress-session https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/watching-congress... That being said, I have never been more embarrassed and scared for politics in this country than I have been today. These people really had no clue about the kind of damage they did today. It is looking like misinformation is the biggest plague of the Information Age.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    It's not, but one, congress was in session, and two, they knew there was going to be a big group of agitated protestors outside. Compare how tight security was when there was a BLM protest there.
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
The most compelling question I have is: will Donald Trump not be held responsible for this event? (I don't want to turn this into a political debate; I am simply asking if there's any law that will hold him accountable).
- probably_wrong 6y ago
  I don't think there's a good answer because any answer to your question hinges on a political decision. From a practical point of view, "holding him accountable" requires a group of politically-minded people to agree that he has committed a crime for which he needs to be held accountable. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that there is indeed a law that he has broken. If the people with the power to punish him for it decide not to do it, then whether he actually committed a crime or not is a moot point. We will only know whether he will be held accountable once he is being held accountable.
- osgovernment 6y ago
  The best thing we can do is not let history forget what happened today, and what will happen with we let someone like Donald Trump have free reign over the political institutions without proper checks and balances. More than ever, the Democrats need to limit their own powers to prevent a similar occurrence in 4 or 8 more years.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  Not an answer, exactly, but there is talk of invoking the 25th amendment (possible I suppose, considering Pence and Trump are at odds currently). As of now, none of Trump's cabinet nor Pence have suggested intent to do so. I would wager it will take another event of this nature and/or a big hit to Trump's approval ratings which are very static and unchanged by scandal mostly. There's also the option of impeachment and removal. This is significantly less likely as it requires a majority of senators and Trump only has two weeks left. It's unlikely he will be held accountable for encouraging domestic terrorism against democratic and republican lawmakers alike. Especially if he wins up pardoning himself. Edit: CNN just reported a source claiming some of Trump's cabinet are in early talks about invoking the 25th amendment. Still very unlikely to happen however.
kodah 6y ago
I have never worked on Capitol Hill but I'm going to go ahead and say this is misinformation. I did work for the DOD, and arguably the DOD does not have access to nearly as sensitive information as the State Department or at times Congress. The most basic procedures for classified information require that it be stored behind locked metal cages, in bank-style vaults, with encrypted hard drives, accessed via SMART cards, and transferred via an armed escort. When I left for Afghanistan there was one person carrying Top Secret information and the case it was carried in was handcuffed to him, not only was he armed but he had an armed escort as well. The notion or idea that some Congressperson has Classified+ information sitting behind a wood or glass door sounds highly suspicious. Edit: changed "fake news" to "misinformation"
- marvion 6y ago
  No need for using the term "fake news". Noone posted any news, nor are they fake. It's not about possible access of classified information, but the now unknown state of the devices and systems. Physical barriers, like a guarded entry, produce a zone of trust. People are searched for weapons on entries to somewhat guarantee that no weapons are inside. Once the entry is un-guarded, the trust level is 0% and needs to rebuild.
  - kodah 6y ago
    There's a notion being presented that having access to physical offices is somehow tantamount to having access to a SCIF. That is the misinformation/hyperbole/fake news part. If you post on Twitter and your tweet goes viral, it is now news. Those networks will assuredly have to be rebuilt from the ground up. He's definitely right on a number of things but fueling speculation like this, especially when it's already been acknowledged the SCIFs were not breached, is equally dangerous. This stuff is a matter of open record: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/what-is-a-scif/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/what-is-a-scif/index...
- notananthem 6y ago
  They're a sysadmin who did work in congress and you're a chud crying fake news
shibeouya 6y ago
This is what happens when you let extremists roam around with impunity for 9 months. Even if they were previously far-left, every action has a reaction of the same magnitude. The sooner media and social media companies are held accountable for polarizing people on either end, the better for this country.
- stdbrouw 6y ago
  How about holding people accountable for what people do?
  - Atlantium 6y ago
    Seconded. The tools are not the problem. The humans using the tools are the problem.
- abvdasker 6y ago
  Incredible that you've found a way to blame Black Lives Matter protesters — who were not present and whose protests were overwhelmingly peaceful[1] — for the actions of a right wing mob. You've completely ignored the difference between the actual goals of the "far-left extremists" and those of these Trump supporters. You've completely ignored the difference in harm done by a protest turning violent and damaging a business and a group storming the US Capitol to overturn the results of a democratic election in the most powerful nation on Earth. The details matter and to simply throw up your hands and kvetch about vague "extremism" deflects responsibility from the individuals and ideologies which promote attacks on democracy. This kind of cowardly equivocation in the face of fascism is exactly how the events of yesterday were allowed to happen. Your attitude — sadly held by too many Americans — is pathetic and it will not solve the problem of right wing extremism. 1) https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/ https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/
supergirl 6y ago
maybe now americans will realize how it feels when someone decides your elected president is "illegitimate" and think twice before supporting such actions in other countries. if this happened in Iran or Belarus the media would cheer it. another interesting thing is the media censoring of Trump (blocked by social media, news like reuters are always making sure to note that what Trump says is false (e.g. "falsely claimed the election was stolen"). this is exactly what would happen in "third-world countries" but now it happens in America and no one cares about it. sure, it's only Trump being censored now, but it's not a big stretch to start censoring regular people too. it's not a democracy if you can't talk freely.
- theossuary 6y ago
  This is a terrible take. Reminding readers that something is a lie is not censorship. And just as democracy couldn't survive real censorship, it also couldn't survive leaders being allowed to lie with impunity. Where we are now is proof of that. I will agree though, Trump has brought the US government down to the level of a third-world country these last four years.
crayzcray 6y ago
They don’t not use CAC cards? I’m surprised they don’t have to be in compliance with NIST 800-53 (e.g. AC-11 for screen session locks)
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jhowell 6y ago
I wonder how people will feel about the federal and state governments working with cell phone service providers to generate a list of "attendees." Seems like the conviction rate would be pretty high.
sokoloff 6y ago
I wonder if dang et al do computations to see which articles gather the highest percentage of downvotes and/or opposing votes on comments. I suspect articles on yesterday's events will lead the league on those stats.
whoknew1122 6y ago
A SCIF was compromised? How was there not armed guards there to ensure this sort of thing didn't happen. Many military bases are authorized to use deadly force to maintain physical security. I'd imagine a SCIF would demand the same security. Yet Jethro and his Gadsten flag can just roll up into a SCIF?
- cipherboy 6y ago
  I could be wrong, but I believe the twitter poster is referring to this event from 2019: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/23/20929080/house-republicans-sergeant-arms-scif-impeachment-intelligence-eoyang https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/23/20929080/... https://www.wired.com/story/republicans-storm-scif-national-security-nightmare/ https://www.wired.com/story/republicans-storm-scif-national-... &c.

378 points by ytpete 6y ago

The linked tweet is from a past Congressional sysadmin, so it seems reasonably authoritative - but it's cited in thread that's connected to some other interesting opinions on this: https://twitter.com/JoeUchill/status/1346983998627532800 https://twitter.com/JoeUchill/status/1346983998627532800 https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1346975210017234945 https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1346975210017234945 https://twitter.com/MiekeEoyang/status/1347000537208803328 https://twitter.com/MiekeEoyang/status/1347000537208803328

rmrfstar 6y ago
These responses are over the top. The photo of the congressional office that is circulating shows a wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse, and an unlocked workstation. That tells a pretty damning story about the ambient level of security awareness in congressional offices. Congress has a very serious technology competence problem. Probably a better long term strategy to focus on that.
- zwp 6y ago
  I agree. The risk from this intrusion is not a whole lot different (and considerably more overt) than from the access that any number of other people have had to this building in the past. (Tour guides, visiting civilians, contractors, cleaners, ...). Professional attackers were not waiting to follow a Jamiroquai knock-off around during an event whose CCTV footage will be heavily scrutinized. (See for example (50 years ago) https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/15/world/the-bugged-embassy-case-what-went-wrong.html https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/15/world/the-bugged-embassy-...). This may be a good incentive to review policies such as full disk encryption and proximity-card workstation lock/unlock but pulling miles of CAT-6 from this building is not a sensible response: defenses _should_ already account for this sort of threat. If purple team has not already "what if"'ed this particular variant of the evil maid problem then that's a serious issue but clearly weak physical security was already a known feature of the threat model.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  What makes you so sure said workstations had any significant value or access worth locking it down like it held the launch codes or something? According to one of the replies in the tweets you linked, pretty much everything would have been open information anyway. All this talk from random internets about how "terrible" their infosec is strikes me as a bunch of armchair quarterbacking by people who think they know a lot more than they do... so basically your typical tech worker I guess.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  I'd rather they not focus on security. I'd rather everything they do with their computers is live streamed all the time really. Their incompetence isn't any different than the average person in the work force, and they shouldn't be keeping secrets anyway. I'm sure some replies and downvotes to this will think I am crazy because they have important secrets like terrorism intel etc, and yes I understand that, but continue to disagree. I believe a nation could function just fine without secrets. It would simply be different. We don't a good job with the secrets anyway.
  - jaredklewis 6y ago
    Terrorism intel is the least of my concerns with your proposal. IMHO, privacy is a key part of negotiation, creativity, and planning. Lack of privacy would make it difficult for them do their jobs well or (more likely) drive them to use unofficial, private channels. Sometimes a deal or a new idea needs a "safe space" to grow. I assume you are a programmer (this is HN). Do you think operations at your company would improve if everyone's screen was constantly broadcast to management? Personally, I'd prefer to be judged on my job performance, rather than having some non-engineer decide if I'm doing a good job based on their impression of what's on my screen. The legislative record and public statements of our congressmen are almost always enough to evaluate their competence.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

unixhero 6y ago

What is this? Eritrea?

themark 6y ago

Is there a ‘server room’ in the Capitol? Was is breached?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ilikepi 6y ago
There probably is, and it probably wasn't. There's a big difference between an office of someone who regularly meets with visitors and a room that is likely limited to a handful of people under controlled circumstances. It's likely there's a whole secured area of the building dedicated to operations (telecomm, engineering, etc).
- gibolt 6y ago
  They did enter several congresspeople's offices, with at least Pelosi's computer completely unlocked. Emergency situation meant they left immediately, and potentially left the whole government vulnerable to future attacks in the process
  - ilikepi 6y ago
    Oh totally... It's slightly surprising there's not an emergency evacuation procedure for people who work in the building that involves locking all devices that remain in the building via a hot-key or hot-corner. Come to think of it, I wonder if a screen lock command is something that could be pushed from a Windows domain controller...and if so, why wasn't that used?
    - banana_giraffe 6y ago
      Windows 10 can be setup to auto-lock if a bluetooth phone goes out of range, and there's a little eco system of third party companies that make keyfobs that do the same basic thing. Even if it's not a common feature, it's not like I'd be surprised to learn these computers are imaged with some custom software, one of which could be a lock on command (or loss of connectivity to home). I have no idea how important these machines were, of course.

btmiller 6y ago

In terms of physical intrusion, a tremendous amount of security theater was exposed today. Quite astonishing how easily people were able to gain access.

ReaganFJones 6y ago
I'm not sure if it could be largely characterized as security theater. The videos from the Capitol demonstrate just how outmatched the police were: https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1347031398176223233 https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1347031398176223233 There were clear examples of failures like the police letting them in or taking selfies with them. We'll see what oversight gets applied to the Capitol police... https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/capitol-riots-police-firings-455698 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/capitol-riots-polic...
- preommr 6y ago
  > The videos from the Capitol demonstrate just how outmatched the police were Not sure if I understand the point you're trying to make. They shouldn't have been outmatched in the first place. The protest was planned and the information was extremely overt. Something went horribly wrong for this to happen.
  - sterlind 6y ago
    Any one of those protestors could have brought in a bomb. They weren't exactly going through metal detectors. Given that a pipe bomb was found at the RNC, and a suspicious package of some sort at the DNC, I'm surprised someone didn't try. I wonder how worried security there was about explosive devices and weighing whether to open fire.
    - zionic 6y ago
      And yet they didn’t. Consider the implications of that
      - 6y ago

baggy_trough 6y ago

Certainly would be a number of spies along for the joy ride.

8note 6y ago
You'd expect trump to have already let the spies though the front door though
- pvfffghhr 6y ago
  To let them spy on himself? How does that make sense?
  - osgovernment 6y ago
    No, to let them spy on America. There are several instances of Trump going against his intelligence community, specifically in regards to Russia, to weaken America's cyber-defense. There are legitimate reasons to be concerned that he was being blackmailed by a foreign government to weaken America's institutions, and sow chaos and division.

raziel2701 6y ago

We spend 700 billion in defense yet allow a dude in a buffalo costume to storm the senate floor.

detaro 6y ago
you also spend ~450 million on capitol police alone...
nullc 6y ago
Dudes in buffalo costumes are pretty harmless. And the senate floor isn't a particularly important piece of ground to hold (when the Senators are not there at least). Expending lots of resources and good will smashing what was essentially theatre-- wouldn't have been a good move. If only we treated more protests like that: Stood back and people show their anger, then move on with our lives -- message heard-- with minimal injury and damage. [I'm aware that a protester was shot and killed inside the capitol building -- but relative the scope of the event, I think it's still fair to characterize it as that way] FWIW, the Capitol building is normally substantially open to the public.
- hndudette2 6y ago
  > Stood back and people show their anger, then move on with our lives -- message heard-- with minimal injury and damage. Disagree on that point. Allowing riots creates a lot of anger on the other side of the political isle. Also, the rioters are often not representative of the majority of protestors and undermine the entire movement (think about the BLM rioters' impact on how the overall movement was perceived). They also often lead to a violation of rights; property destruction, assaults, deaths, etc. Almost nobody - on any side - wants a small number of thugs to run the show.
  - mustacheemperor 6y ago
    Agreed, the first half of MLK’s famous “a riot is a language of the unheard” quote states that the conditions existing in America which foment riots “must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots.” Our collective goal should always be to resolve the conditions that lead to rioting. But when a riot occurs it should be stopped and dispersed as safely and expediently as possible.

coolgod 6y ago

American citizens can't even enter their own house now?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sanp 6y ago
So, try getting into a missile silo. That's paid for with tax dollars as well. Maybe we should allow anyone in there. Why not the allow people to walk into the oval office?
- adventured 6y ago
  You're comparing a public service building where normal everyday democratic governmental duties occur - a building specifically of the people - with what is supposed to be a highly secure military installation in which the sole mission of that installation is to launch missiles and cause death & destruction. Never mind, you're right, the Capitol is also a building where mass death & destruction is launched from.
- 8note 6y ago
  Have you not seen that John Oliver episode about the nukes? Basically anyone could get in there if they want, but they probs don't want to because knocking over a wrench could easily set the whole place on fire in a conflagration of missile fuel
  - kodah 6y ago
    I would firstly remind you that John Oliver is an entertainer. I served in the Marines with people from Marine Corps Security Forces. If you go anywhere near a nuclear silo there is a Security Forces Quick Response Force platoon that has already been tracking you and is on their way to intercept you. If you somehow overwhelm a Security Forces platoon you will now need to face the onslaught of the rest of the Security Forces Regiment, all of which are classified as part of Special Operations capabilities within the Marine Corps. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Security_Force_Regiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Security_Force_Re...

rasz 6y ago

What about physical safety of Senators? They let them in an ~hour after the mob ransacked the place. Not enough time to scan for explosives, and they already found two pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails, not to mention some guns in nearby parked truck. This is crazy :o

seanp2k2 6y ago
this was my thought as well. No idea why that was allowed to happen. No way that they went through everything with enough scrutiny in that timeframe.
- andirk 6y ago
  Also needs disinfecting from most of them not wearing masks and shouting and unkempt.
lostlogin 6y ago
Some of the mob might already have the appropriate clearances for the various computer systems. I’m unsure if house delegates can enter with weapons though. https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/06/w-va-delegate-just-sworn-in-among-the-rioters-storming-u-s-capitol/ https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/06/w-va-delegate-just-sworn-...
- kube-system 6y ago
  Evans is not a US congressperson, he’s a representative in West Virginia’s state legislature. He has zero official business in the US Capitol.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> some guns in nearby parked truck I imagine they're more restrictive than here, but I don't know the laws in DC. Around here finding some guns in a parked truck would not be noteworthy. Given that some of these people probably came from well outside of DC, I wouldn't be at all surprised they just drove their truck up with whatever was in it already without a thought. Unfortunately, I also wouldn't be surprised to hear that they intentionally brought them just in case some of their buddies forgot their weapons for the coup attempt. That is, sadly, the country we've made for ourselves.

luxuryballs 6y ago

They basically let them in, it wasn’t a breach. It may as well have been orchestrated to derail the session because now all the objection debates are happening at 1AM o.O

PartiallyTyped 6y ago
There's a video floating around where the police literary opened the barricades.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  If you watch that video the rioters are already behind that barricade. The video pans round at the end and you can see a flood of people crossing the barricade just to the side of them as well. The police were clearly unprepared and way too lenient but it also makes no sense for them to defend a piece of fence that's already compromised.
  - bradford 6y ago
    I've watched the video and I agree. My take: there's a large security perimeter that's already been breached, and the video shows one chokepoint of the perimeter that hasn't yet been breached. The officers at that checkpoint know what the situation is: They aren't going to do any good in an open space surrounded by a mob of thousands. They are moving back to a more defensible position (presumably where they can buy time to evacuate the Congress floors). They are calmly walking because breaking into a jog could incite the mob further. I don't see them opening the gates.
    - meheleventyone 6y ago
      This is also basically what happened right at the beginning when the rioters very violently broke through the first fence badly injuring at least one cop. As soon as it was obvious the mob was overwhelming things and the police had rescued their colleagues they fell back at a run to the next line. Pretty standard defensive tactics from time immemorial. That there were only three officers and a fence that was easy for the rioters to lift and batter the police with is concerning.

stef25 6y ago

It was quite the adventure watching this all on TV from Europe. One thought that comes to mind is that I'm sure the most heavily armed nation in the world could have gotten rid of these people in no time, but perhaps they didn't because of the symbolism of the location. Here in Brussels' main court house (a massive imposing building like the Capitol), a guy once just strolled in and shot and killed a judge (correction: a judge and a clerk, in 2010) and then just strolled out. The minister of justice said they would not improve security because they wanted the place to remain "of the people, for the people" (paraphrased from memory, it doesn't make total sense but you get the jest of it). I have friends working at the European parliament where at one time was a group of people protesting against the presence of Marine Le Pen, rocks in hands. There were exactly 2 (unarmed) "security guards" present who told my friend they obviously stood no chance if these people decided to charge. On another occasion 100 Kurdish protestors managed to break in to the building. But they just don't want these places to look like Fort Knox. In the end, a guy in buffalo costume fooling around on the senate floor is better than puddles of blood.

kube-system 6y ago
As a kid, I walked right into the front doors of the US Capitol, down the hall, and into one of my representatives offices. (Without adult supervision too!) They were quite friendly. The building has security, of course, but it’s not like some kind of off-limits private building. https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/watching-congress-session https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/watching-congress... That being said, I have never been more embarrassed and scared for politics in this country than I have been today. These people really had no clue about the kind of damage they did today. It is looking like misinformation is the biggest plague of the Information Age.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  It's not, but one, congress was in session, and two, they knew there was going to be a big group of agitated protestors outside. Compare how tight security was when there was a BLM protest there.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

The most compelling question I have is: will Donald Trump not be held responsible for this event? (I don't want to turn this into a political debate; I am simply asking if there's any law that will hold him accountable).

probably_wrong 6y ago
I don't think there's a good answer because any answer to your question hinges on a political decision. From a practical point of view, "holding him accountable" requires a group of politically-minded people to agree that he has committed a crime for which he needs to be held accountable. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that there is indeed a law that he has broken. If the people with the power to punish him for it decide not to do it, then whether he actually committed a crime or not is a moot point. We will only know whether he will be held accountable once he is being held accountable.
osgovernment 6y ago
The best thing we can do is not let history forget what happened today, and what will happen with we let someone like Donald Trump have free reign over the political institutions without proper checks and balances. More than ever, the Democrats need to limit their own powers to prevent a similar occurrence in 4 or 8 more years.
ShamelessC 6y ago
Not an answer, exactly, but there is talk of invoking the 25th amendment (possible I suppose, considering Pence and Trump are at odds currently). As of now, none of Trump's cabinet nor Pence have suggested intent to do so. I would wager it will take another event of this nature and/or a big hit to Trump's approval ratings which are very static and unchanged by scandal mostly. There's also the option of impeachment and removal. This is significantly less likely as it requires a majority of senators and Trump only has two weeks left. It's unlikely he will be held accountable for encouraging domestic terrorism against democratic and republican lawmakers alike. Especially if he wins up pardoning himself. Edit: CNN just reported a source claiming some of Trump's cabinet are in early talks about invoking the 25th amendment. Still very unlikely to happen however.

kodah 6y ago

I have never worked on Capitol Hill but I'm going to go ahead and say this is misinformation. I did work for the DOD, and arguably the DOD does not have access to nearly as sensitive information as the State Department or at times Congress. The most basic procedures for classified information require that it be stored behind locked metal cages, in bank-style vaults, with encrypted hard drives, accessed via SMART cards, and transferred via an armed escort. When I left for Afghanistan there was one person carrying Top Secret information and the case it was carried in was handcuffed to him, not only was he armed but he had an armed escort as well. The notion or idea that some Congressperson has Classified+ information sitting behind a wood or glass door sounds highly suspicious. Edit: changed "fake news" to "misinformation"

marvion 6y ago
No need for using the term "fake news". Noone posted any news, nor are they fake. It's not about possible access of classified information, but the now unknown state of the devices and systems. Physical barriers, like a guarded entry, produce a zone of trust. People are searched for weapons on entries to somewhat guarantee that no weapons are inside. Once the entry is un-guarded, the trust level is 0% and needs to rebuild.
- kodah 6y ago
  There's a notion being presented that having access to physical offices is somehow tantamount to having access to a SCIF. That is the misinformation/hyperbole/fake news part. If you post on Twitter and your tweet goes viral, it is now news. Those networks will assuredly have to be rebuilt from the ground up. He's definitely right on a number of things but fueling speculation like this, especially when it's already been acknowledged the SCIFs were not breached, is equally dangerous. This stuff is a matter of open record: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/what-is-a-scif/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/what-is-a-scif/index...
notananthem 6y ago
They're a sysadmin who did work in congress and you're a chud crying fake news

shibeouya 6y ago

This is what happens when you let extremists roam around with impunity for 9 months. Even if they were previously far-left, every action has a reaction of the same magnitude. The sooner media and social media companies are held accountable for polarizing people on either end, the better for this country.

stdbrouw 6y ago
How about holding people accountable for what people do?
- Atlantium 6y ago
  Seconded. The tools are not the problem. The humans using the tools are the problem.
abvdasker 6y ago
Incredible that you've found a way to blame Black Lives Matter protesters — who were not present and whose protests were overwhelmingly peaceful[1] — for the actions of a right wing mob. You've completely ignored the difference between the actual goals of the "far-left extremists" and those of these Trump supporters. You've completely ignored the difference in harm done by a protest turning violent and damaging a business and a group storming the US Capitol to overturn the results of a democratic election in the most powerful nation on Earth. The details matter and to simply throw up your hands and kvetch about vague "extremism" deflects responsibility from the individuals and ideologies which promote attacks on democracy. This kind of cowardly equivocation in the face of fascism is exactly how the events of yesterday were allowed to happen. Your attitude — sadly held by too many Americans — is pathetic and it will not solve the problem of right wing extremism. 1) https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/ https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

supergirl 6y ago

maybe now americans will realize how it feels when someone decides your elected president is "illegitimate" and think twice before supporting such actions in other countries. if this happened in Iran or Belarus the media would cheer it. another interesting thing is the media censoring of Trump (blocked by social media, news like reuters are always making sure to note that what Trump says is false (e.g. "falsely claimed the election was stolen"). this is exactly what would happen in "third-world countries" but now it happens in America and no one cares about it. sure, it's only Trump being censored now, but it's not a big stretch to start censoring regular people too. it's not a democracy if you can't talk freely.

theossuary 6y ago
This is a terrible take. Reminding readers that something is a lie is not censorship. And just as democracy couldn't survive real censorship, it also couldn't survive leaders being allowed to lie with impunity. Where we are now is proof of that. I will agree though, Trump has brought the US government down to the level of a third-world country these last four years.

crayzcray 6y ago

They don’t not use CAC cards? I’m surprised they don’t have to be in compliance with NIST 800-53 (e.g. AC-11 for screen session locks)

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jhowell 6y ago

I wonder how people will feel about the federal and state governments working with cell phone service providers to generate a list of "attendees." Seems like the conviction rate would be pretty high.

sokoloff 6y ago

I wonder if dang et al do computations to see which articles gather the highest percentage of downvotes and/or opposing votes on comments. I suspect articles on yesterday's events will lead the league on those stats.

whoknew1122 6y ago

A SCIF was compromised? How was there not armed guards there to ensure this sort of thing didn't happen. Many military bases are authorized to use deadly force to maintain physical security. I'd imagine a SCIF would demand the same security. Yet Jethro and his Gadsten flag can just roll up into a SCIF?

cipherboy 6y ago
I could be wrong, but I believe the twitter poster is referring to this event from 2019: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/23/20929080/house-republicans-sergeant-arms-scif-impeachment-intelligence-eoyang https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/23/20929080/... https://www.wired.com/story/republicans-storm-scif-national-security-nightmare/ https://www.wired.com/story/republicans-storm-scif-national-... &c.